Trump's stance against the intel community tells me they are probably intestigating him and

[skip fox]

that there is likely something big to hide. So big that he will alienate the intelligence community by denigrating them, making the public believe they are usually wrong and therefore can't indite him on whatever charges might apply.


This also implies that these charges will be known publicly since he is readying his defense now by undercutting the intel community's credibility.


After all, he's spending lot of political capital on this issue, one which is not likely to come out well for the-Trumpster-in-waiting.

[True_Blue]

1. I hope they arrest Trump for treason

When he attends the Intelligence briefing.

[Vilis Veritas]

13. You think our dismay at Hillary's loss made headlines.

Perp walk Drumpf and I will buying a bunker...

Peace.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

33. +1 nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

39. Fuck that! Arrest the Fuhrer-Elect on the podium before he takes the oath of office! (If only!)

[Lurks Often]

47. Trump can not be arrested, he could only be impeached and

convicted by Congress. Then Pence becomes President.

[unblock]

53. presidents can be arrested and tried and convicted of ordinary crimes.

in theory, anyway.

impeachment and removal is merely the process for firing him from his job; it doesn't replace criminal or even civil liability.

[Lurks Often]

65. I believe you are incorrect, it would likely end up before SCOTUS

for a final answer though.

http://litigation.findlaw.com/legal-system/presidential-impeachment-the-legal-standard-and-procedure.html

[unblock]

67. there's nothing in the attachment about it.

but there's nothing in the constitution that indicates or implies that the president is above the law, with the possible exception of the pardon power, though no president has ever tried to pardon themselves.

if the president murders someone in cold blood, the president can be arrested, tried, and convicted of murder, same as any ordinary citizen (albeit with spectacularly better lawyers and vastly greater media attention).

completely separately, the house could impeach and the senate could remove, presumably based at least in part on the same charge.

however, congress could in theory do nothing and the president could continue to run the country from prison.


you're right, though, of course it would go to the supreme court, at least if it came to that. seems more likely in practice that a president would resign if convicted of a crime. maybe if it was obvious that it was a sham....

[Lurks Often]

68. It's uncharted territory, so we'll end up disagreeing

I will continue to believe that only Congress can impeach and convict a President of a crime.

[unblock]

69. you're correct that only the house can impeach

and only the senate can remove a president from office, upon conviction of the impeachment charges.

we're only disagreeing on the separate issue of crimes and punishments having nothing to do with removal from office.

[Lurks Often]

70. You've provided no links to indicate the President can be arrested by law enforcement

[skip fox]

73. Could a President serve from prison if not impeached?

[Lurks Often]

76. That would be up to the Supreme Court

[unblock]

77. i imagine the sentencing court could be convinced to suspend the sentence until he's out of office.

as a practical matter on the basis of national security, rather than out of any constitutional restriction.

[unblock]

74. i'd suggest the entire criminal code says that, as few crimes have a carveout for the president, but

here's one link. you may recall that president bill clinton was forced to face civil charges while a sitting president. there was plenty of discussion at that time about criminal charges as well. of course, republican clinton-haters were all drooling at any way to get at clinton, so they all took the side of yes, of course, criminal charges can be brought against a sitting president:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/paneltext090998.htm



again, i think we do agree that as a practical matter, if it came to it, the supreme court would have to decide. i just don't see the supreme court coming to a formal conclusion that a sitting president can face civil charges but not criminal charges.

[Lurks Often]

75. Civil suits are not criminal trials

I am aware that SCOTUS ruled Clinton could be sued for things that took place before he was elected.

Clinton was impeached by the House, but not convicted by the Senate.

Everything else is speculation and would also depend on the hypothetical crime.

[treestar]

80. He would be above the law if he couldn't be if

there was probable cause he committed a crime.

[Lurks Often]

85. It would seem to Congress's responsibiltyto determine if there was a crime.

As I've stated, we're in uncharted territories here and any hypothetical crime not related to being President would almost certainly go to SCOTUS.

[GarColga]

96. In 1872 President Grant was arrested

by a DC policeman for speeding in his horse and buggy. He paid a fine of 20 dollars and walked back to the White House.

http://observer.com/2016/07/a-brief-history-of-the-traffic-stop-or-how-the-car-created-the-police-state/

[LanternWaste]

78. Indicted, but not arrested.

Vice President Burr was criminally indicted on two charges by the state of New York for fatally wounding Hamilton, but Burr remained with the administration through the trial and completed his full term as Vice President while under indictment in two states.

In two opinions from the Nixon era, the Attorney General’s office spelled out the argument that the President wouldn’t face criminal charges while in office, but he could face charges after leaving office. The President would need to be removed by Congress through the impeachment process or resign to lose that short-term immunity.

So I think we're looking at two different animals. The President can be indicted for a crime, but as a sitting President, no action can be taken by law enforcement at that time until the other animal (impeachment, end-of-term or resignation) has occurred.

[meow2u3]

97. AFAIK, the President can be indicted, tried, and convicted of a crime before impeachment

but he can't be sentenced until after he's impeached and removed from office. But IANAL.

Congresscritters and governors have been convicted of crimes but have been yet to be sentenced until expulsion and/or impeachment proceedings, so there is a precedent.

[AmericanActivist]

94. President Grant arrested, to police HQ, & booked

https://www.google.com/search?q=president+arrested+for+speeding&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

President Grant was speeding...on his horse and arrested. Of course, people back then had morality and integrity and respect for the laws.

No President is above the law IF their are people willing to enforce the law.

[treestar]

79. He could be arrested

A president couldn't commit a crime and expect not to be prosecuted.

It would not remove him from office, but he could stand trial and be arrested.

It would make sense to have him removed from office if convicted of the crime, but Congress would still have to want to do it.

[TonyPDX]

2. Interesting. He flees by attacking, so you may be on to something.

[Cracklin Charlie]

4. Also, he said the intel briefing was delayed...

So that someone(?) could have time to "build a case".

Sounds more like an interrogation.

[volstork]

15. Noticed that.

It seemed suspicious...

[gratuitous]

27. That certainly wasn't the tone of his earlier remarks, was it?

He said that he would be addressing this on Tuesday or Wednesday, and now it's Friday, soon to be Monday, then the Inauguration will be eating up all his time, and then we'll get to "Are you still on about that?" The bulldogs of the Fourth Estate will then dutifully go back to sleep.

[Greybnk48]

3. I think you may be right as well!

He's definitely been laying this sort of groundwork for quite a while now. Weeks. Why bother, unless... I thought he was just saying all of this to protect Putin from something, but then it seemed a bit over the top. But not if he's worried about himself!

[haele]

44. Playing the Ref.

Or rather, playing the crowd so as the Ref calls legitimate fouls, he can yell how the Ref was biased against him and get the crowd on his side when he cheats.

Haele

[Baitball Blogger]

5. One can only hope.

[jalan48]

6. In other words, he can be be controlled by our secret National Security State.

My guess is that everyone in our government operates under the same conditions.

[volstork]

17. From the late Bill Hicks' comedy routine:

"I have this feeling man, 'cause you know, it's just a handful of people who run everything, you know … that's true, it's provable. It's not … I'm not a f-ing conspiracy nut, it's provable. A handful, a very small elite, run and own these corporations, which include the mainstream media. I have this feeling that whoever is elected president... no matter what you promise on the campaign trail – blah, blah, blah – when you win, you go into this smoke-filled room with the twelve industrialist capitalist scum-f-s who got you in there. And you're in this smoky room, and this little film screen comes down … and a big guy with a cigar goes, "Roll the film." And it's a shot of the Kennedy assassination from an angle you've never seen before … that looks suspiciously like it's from the grassy knoll. And then the screen goes up and the lights come up, and they go to the new president, "Any questions?"
"Er, just what my agenda is."
"First we bomb Baghdad."
"You got it …"

I personally think this says almost everything that needs to be said. Unfortunately, it applies to both parties.

[Nitram]

56. It is false equivalency thinking like that that led to Trump's election.

[volstork]

82. I'm not saying that.

I'm saying that the hands of those who purportedly govern are tied by "higher" powers that pull the strings, and have done so since the coup on 11/22/63.

[certainot]

29. they're fighting over how to use it

keep him and have him over a barrel and use it when they want, or risk him strengthening his defenses once he's in

[vlyons]

7. Given his ties to Russia

They've probably been watching him for years. Do you think that the CIA doesn't know about every ruble that goes into Trump's business? Fat chance. He is very very stupid to belittle the CIA. They probably already have informants in his various operations.
Oh the CIA leaks will be glorious.

[RonniePudding]

9. The last president who cultivated a hostile relationship with the CIA didn't fare so well.

[90-percent]

19. Don't mess with the PTB'S!

-90% Jimmy

[Old Vet]

41. Thats what I was thinking RonniePudding..........

Cant imagine how many skeletons are in his closet the CIA can easily use to fuck him over sideways, He most definitely doesn't know what he playing with.

[HoneyBadger]

42. JFK

[ProudProgressiveNow]

66. +1 nt

[Wounded Bear]

11. Not just the CIA...

there's a whole alphabet soup of agencies that probably have dirt on the new Prez. The question is, what will they do with it?

[ProudProgressiveNow]

34. +1000

Oh the CIA leaks will be glorious.

[world wide wally]

8. Curious but concerning.

If our intelligence service warns Trump of a planned sneak attack by one of our adversaries (let's just say Russia for the hell of it), does Trump ignore the information and let perhaps thousands of Americans die because he is at odds with the CIA?

[True_Blue]

37. Very concerning

I think we already know the answer.

[UTUSN]

10. From your lips to Zeus's ear n/t

[bora13]

12. bingo

ever play bingo?
You get to shout BINGO!

'cept in this case you don't win, you lose.

[skip fox]

14. we all lose

[uponit7771]

16. US intel community isn't the type of folks you just wakes & decided to pick a battle with MiniPutin

... is asking for it.

[machoneman]

26. Trump is afraid they will freeze his access to cash....

If he has such extensive business dealings with Russian oligarchs and banks, he's terrified not that said links will be made public but blocking all money transfers, for his underway projects, finished projects and the like will cripple his financial empire.

The CIA, FBI and DOJ can and would do this and just maybe these are among the unmentioned sanctions President Obama has alreadyput in place.

Remember too that that world banking institutions can also 'assist' in blocking the two-way transfers of money if so ordered. I do wonder if this has already occurred and that's why Trump has somewhat obliquely criticized the 17 oft-mentioned intelligence agencies.

He can't quite come out and say 'stop blocking the transfer of my monies to/from Russian banks" now can he?

[kentuck]

36. I agree with this scenario.

He is attempting to protect his business interests in Russia. He is obligated to speak well of Putin.

[flying_wahini]

89. quite a thrilling prospect.

Touche.

[biglib63]

18. Could be, but

Trump attacks the credibility of everyone else so that he can stand alone as the only true source. It's going to be tough to read the tea leaves with this guy because has so many competing pathologies.

[bettyellen]

25. He's undermining the credibility of our government as well as our press and that's what Putin wants.

The other stuff is just the cherry on the sundae.

[Beartracks]

64. Conservatives are such patsies.

First bin Laden leads them by the nose into the middle east to dance to his tune, and now this.

============

[kytngirl]

20. Tell me this...

If Trump is impeached or has to resign, do you think Pence will make a better president? Never mind I think I answered my own question - anybody would make a better president.

[Hekate]

45. Pence is a hardline religious fanatic. Take from that what you will.

[kytngirl]

48. Agree with description of Pence

And that makes him dangerous as well. However, we do have something called "separation of church and state", so I would hope congress and senate would keep him from trying to turn America into a theocratic form of government.

Then again, I just don't know. The pious, self-righteous republicans think they're doing the will of God anyway, so who knows what kind of America we'd have under Pence.

[2naSalit]

51. Geeze...

this is like asking us to choose between a devastating earthquake and a nuclear attack... if Pence is the earthquake, I'll take it. Still gonna be a major catastrophe but one that has the possibility of recovery, the other has none.

[Greybnk48]

60. He picked Pence because he knows the majority of Americans

are repulsed by Pence. It's so that we think twice about throwing his ass out of office. The added benefit was to woo the religious nuts in the minority to vote for the "pussy grabber." But I think it was primarily to protect himself, wrongly seeing himself as the lesser of the two evils.

[Hekate]

71. Trump was pushed to not take Christy, who was his first choice. I will always wonder how he ended up

....with Pence, the polar opposite in temperament to both Trump and Christy. Whose choice was Pence, really?

[haele]

84. Prebus, and by extention Prebus' handlers.

Pence is a Corporate Christo-Fascist.
Not wealthy enough to call the shots, not smart enough to actually think through a plan, but he is a good "true believer" profiteering prophet who believes we are in the middle of the End Times and desires to implode reality so that he and his fellow travelers are the center of the Universe and consign everyone else to hell.

Biblical/Sharia law for everyone. As long as he and his paymasters are in charge.

Haele

[2naSalit]

83. I agree..

it's what ronnieraygun did with the imbecile, Quayle... life insurance. In this case, we're on to him but it won't stop his own party bosses from dumping him shortly after taking office. I don't like either option but I can deal with religious zealots - was raised with several - but not psychopaths, there is no way to actually communicate with such lack of rational functioning... which is the case w/the orange one.

[BSdetect]

21. drumph will make a "great bigly deal" to avoid any charges and any impeachment.

Maybe agree to simply shut the fuck up and get on with ripping off as many people as he usually does,

Meanwhile just sign any bills that come to his desk - wherever that may be.

[skip fox]

24. Does the F.B.I. have the guts to charge a sitting president

with a major offense?

I'd like to believe so. (At 70, I'm still a small boy.)

[uponit7771]

31. Yes, if the persons name is Hillary Clinton ... of course they will

[Greybnk48]

62. After the black eye they just walked away with

over the treatment of Hillary, they may feel they have to charge him, or lose all credibility.

[Generic Brad]

87. I think the credibility is already gone

They are full on rah-rah for the incoming administration.

[cab67]

38. I don't think he's capable of shutting up.

He may agree to do so, but that's like getting a cat to agree to stop stalking birds.

[kentuck]

22. Bingo!

That's his M.O.

[YoungDemCA]

23. I can't believe I'm rooting for the CIA and the rest of the US intelligence community

But having them actively undermining Donald Trump and the corporate scum whom he calls his presidential administration is infinitely preferable to the CIA, NSA, etc. actually helping the Orange Menace.

[roamer65]

30. Ditto.

But politics make strange bedfellows.

[SHRED]

28. Belittling the intelligence community is a fight...

...a fool would make.

He's incompetent.

[kennetha]

50. Unless they saw no other way out.

Which really does suggest that Trump and his minions are scared shitless of what is about to come. There is almost no other explanation for why they are declaring war on the intelligence community, praising Putin at every turn, and siding with Assange, of all people.

[skip fox]

52. exactly.

You can blame some of his obsessiveness on his ego and normal behavior, but when you consider how drastic it is to continually undermine the intel community's credibility and what a price he's likely to pay, I can't think of another reason.

[Pantagruel]

32. Money laundering?

Trump does lots of RE biz with Russian oligarchs and mobsters?

[Wellstone ruled]

35. Hunch says,

old fashion Sit Down Is about to happen. And this Guy is scared stupid about what will go down.

[kennetha]

40. Remember this little tidbit from the New York Times

The F.B.I. began investigating Russia’s apparent attempts to meddle in the election over the summer. Agents examined numerous possible connections between Russians and members of Mr. Trump’s inner circle, including former Trump aides like Paul Manafort and Carter Page, as well as a mysterious and unexplained trail of computer activity between the Trump Organization and an email account at a large Russian bank, Alfa Bank.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/11/us/politics/cia-judgment-intelligence-russia-hacking-evidence.html

This article is worth close re-reading. Hard questions are clearly being asked at the FBI and the CIA about Trump and the Ruskies. I suspect (or at least hope) that the report they release will contain some bombshells that may rock our politics to the core.

[Old Vet]

43. Thought I was the only one who noticed Mr Manafort vanish from the face of the planet....

Trump knew Manafort had big problems, That's why he dropped him so fast.

[skip fox]

49. Imagine what Manafort would have on Trump!

If he was discovered to have negotiated the transfer of hacked data from the Russians to Putin, and if he was charged with treason, all of Trump's confidentiality agreements would mean nothing to him.

And the possiblity that he had his fingerprints on this, might be what will be discovered and disclosed.

[Hekate]

46. Yet knowing all this, Comey still stuck his thumb on the scale to favor Trump

So the voters got played, and for what?

[oldtime dfl_er]

57. Now THERE's

a question I would love the answer to.

[Hekate]

72. So would I, and yet people and media are buzzing around the shiny distractions.

"Squirrel!"

[uponit7771]

93. +1, Comey effect was biggest MEASURABLE factor from election. Silver noted net 4% shift after Comey

[Nitram]

98. "...the report they release will contain some bombshells that may rock our politics to the core."

I certainly hope so.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

54. I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT!!!!

[lark]

55. Could be as you hypothesize?

I think this is all about Russia. He's getting information from them and using them as his intelligence source. He doesn't want his true relationship with Putin known, so he's discrediting the intelligence in advance because he doesn't want Americans to know he's nothing more than a stooge for the Kremlin. He doesn't want us to know how much $$ (billions) he will make off the oligarchs once the sanctions are removed. He even made his top person, SOS, a person who will also personally realize a ton of $$ from lifting the sanctions and one who is Putin's BFF. I'm sure he leaned hard on McConnell to gut the investigation, and ole turtle came through for him, letting a hostile country take over is fine as long as he gets to have the power of the majority post.

Just my personal pet theory.

[skip fox]

58. A slightly different take, but along the same lines.

And it certainly explains his recent activities.

(My speculation might be more dramatic, with an arrest in the Oval Office, but then I'm a writer and have a taste for this sort for thing.)

[Jughead]

59. My Opinion is

The Russians hacked the Trumpco database and have lots of info on Trump that if it ever came out even the Republicans would call for impeachment. Putin can and will hold this private info over Trump to get what he wants. Anyone who thinks the DNC was the only hack the Russians did is crazy.

[SHRED]

61. Frightening scenario

One that the intelligence community must bring to light if true.

[skip fox]

63. But if they have no credibility . . .?

It's their credibility Trump is currently attacking. I can't imagine he'll ever be successful since most Republicans will not go along with him.

[not fooled]

92. Plus don't forget

That dump went to Moscow in 2013 for the Miss Universe pageant. There is considerable speculation that Putin set him up with underage girls and taped the proceedings.

[Nitram]

99. Good point, Jughead. Putin would cover all bases and use whatever he got to

maximum effect.

[McCamy Taylor]

81. I agree. Russia can not hack without at least 10 other countries knowing about it.

Including the US and China. I suspect that Putin's "Make nice with China over the South China Sea" was supposed to keep them from being too interested in what Russian hackers were doing to the US election. And, I also suspect that it did not work.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

86. Intestigating him?

Some sort of special test, I take it? If it's multiple choice he has a chance of passing, but not if there are any essay questions. Unless he can hire someone else to take the test for him.

[flamingdem]

90. They are infesterating him

and I hope those bugs do their job!

[Mr. Evil]

95. I noticed that too.

Does that mean the C.I.A. has a way of infiltrating his testicles?

[spanone]

88. it's just wrong in so many ways. i find no logic in it without sounding like a conspiracy theorist

[moondust]

91. CNN intel experts baffled.

Don Lemon just had CNN's four top intelligence people on and they were all like...WTF is Trump doing?