I'm not one for conspiracy theories

[BainsBane]

As people here may have observed. I'm an evidence-based sort of person. That said, I believe at least some of the allegations in the former MI6 agent's dossier to be accurate. I do believe Trump is compromised to the Russians. I believe his campaign staffers were in regular contact with the Russian govt and colluded with Russia's campaign to help Trump win. That would explain all of Trump's odd behavior regarding Russia--Excusing Russian intervention in the Ukraine and Syria, his unequivocal admiration for the murderer and despot Putin, his many pro-Russian cabinet appointments, his refusal to take regular intelligence briefings, and his public statements attacking US intelligence agencies.

This is not a fake news story. The dossier has been confirmed as real by respected news agencies like the Guardian. What they do not have proof of is whether the allegations against Trump contained in that dossier are true. I believe that evidence will be forthcoming unless Trump is able to pull the rug out from under investigators. And the only reason to do that would be because the claims are true.

Trump is for all intents and purposes a Russian asset. He is doing Putin's bidding rather than serving the American people.

[GP6971]

1. What we're seeing is real.

No CTs here and this is not going to end well unless the 25th in invoked or he's impeached. But then we get Pence.

[WheelWalker]

7. Depends on what Pence knows, and when he came to know it.

[redwitch]

52. If Pence goes down too we get Paul Ryan right?

Wake me when it's over, I'll be under the bed in the fetal position.

[sarcasmo]

2. I keep thinking back to the Ivanka-Wendi Deng get together in Europe this summer.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

14. Putin's mistress who'd been married to Murdoch?

I wonder if that was photoshopped....


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4095776/The-extraordinary-story-Wendi-Deng-s-Hungarian-toyboy-lover-told-proud-mother-three-years-YOUNGERthan-model-son-s-new-girlfriend.html

[malaise]

49. A key moment n/t

[Lucinda]

3. +1

[sheshe2]

4. Fact.

They own him lock stock and barrel. That goes for his spawn as well.

[GP6971]

5. Truer words have never been spoken. n/t

[Rex]

6. Always good to be objective, pragmatism only goes so far.

Some CTs are stupid, some are credible.

[BainsBane]

9. Why are you excusing him?

Last edited Thu Jan 12, 2017, 01:40 AM - Edit history (1)

Why then has he lied so much about his business dealings in Russia and relationship with Putin?

Your theory doesn't make sense. If Russia didn't have any of that stuff on Trump, he would know it and therefore wouldn't be convinced that Russia was after him.

[Dem2]

10. Have you seen the Clapper statement?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/11/politics/james-clapper-donald-trump/

[BainsBane]

19. A lot of people had access to the document

It is interesting that Trump's go to was to blame the intelligence services.

[JI7]

30. intelligence on wmd was correct. it was Cheney and others who lied and misled

[former9thward]

35. Nope

The CIA said there were WMDs in Iraq whether you like it or not. What Cheney, etc. did with it is irrelevant to that fact.

Straight from the horse's mouth:

Key Judgments
Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction Programs
Iraq has continued its weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs in defiance of UN resolutions and restrictions. Baghdad has chemical and biological weapons as well as missiles with ranges in excess of UN restrictions; if left unchecked, it probably will have a nuclear weapon during this decade.

Baghdad hides large portions of Iraq's WMD efforts. Revelations after the Gulf war starkly demonstrate the extensive efforts undertaken by Iraq to deny information.

Since inspections ended in 1998, Iraq has maintained its chemical weapons effort, energized its missile program, and invested more heavily in biological weapons; most analysts assess Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program.

https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd/Iraq_Oct_2002.htm#key%20judgemetns%201

[JI7]

36. what they did is not irrelevent.

[former9thward]

42. The CIA lied.

Despite attempts to whitewash it. But now we are supposed to believe them. No thanks.

[JI7]

45. no. no they did not lie. cheney lied about the threat

[former9thward]

47. I showed you in black and white what they said.

They called it a threat. They lied. Too bad you are trying to cover for them.

[JI7]

48. your trying to cover for the bush admin. north korea would be considered a threat also

Mske decisions and Cheney did lie.

[ProudLib72]

11. It's a distraction

From his taxes.

This is tRump's long game: allow all these stories to circulate while keeping the real goods hidden. If we had his tax information, we would clearly see the Russian connections. He told everyone he was smart. Looks like he's conning us too, just waiting until the 20th when it will become a lot more difficult to make him do anything.

[BainsBane]

18. That's like calling a tsunami a distraction from a storm cloud.

[ecstatic]

13. Can blackmail discipline Trump? That's the question I'm wondering

and I'd have to say no. As Lawrence O'Donnell pointed out tonight, Trump always defaults back to praise of Putin. And it is really weird. IMO, Trump IS compromised, but it's not because he knows that Putin has damning information--it's because he really really really is a fanboy of dictators. He really really admires Putin, Hitler, etc. THAT is why he instinctively defends Putin at every turn. Trump is very impulsive and emotional. He would not be able to gush over someone who he knew was blackmailing him.

That being said, Putin most likely does have embarrassing information/photos/video of Trump. It's just that Trump doesn't know about it or doesn't want to acknowledge it, and Putin hasn't had to use that card yet.

[Generator]

37. Interesting insight

I think you may be on to something there.

[Stonepounder]

15. Did you hear Obama on the best advice he could give Trump?

He said it was the same advice that Bush gave him when he was transitioning into the White House. "Don't make enemies of the intelligence services".

Trump thinks he knows everything, (Like how he would have made a 'surprise attack' on Allepo - when the city is in the middle of a flat desert and it is really really hard to set up an invasion force to take over a large city 'in secret' when the enemy can see for miles and miles, and so can their drones.) And he thinks he and his buddy Bannon know everything.

I think the intelligence services are getting really nervous about Trump being in the White House.

Bond (walking with the Queen): And Donald Trump, Ma'am?
Queen Elizabeth: Yes, but make it look like an accident 007

https://imgflip.com/i/107z2s

[Generator]

38. Dame Judy Dench brings down Trump

A gal can dream. LOL

[Warren DeMontague]

16. The "I'm gonna pay a hooker to pee on the bed where Obama slept" - particularly given

That we know how thin skinned he is, and he was nursing a mountain-sized grudge over the 2011 WHCD...

It sure sounds like the sort of thing he would do.

[BainsBane]

17. The debts are convincing to me

I don't know about the golden showers stuff and frankly don't care. But if Russia used it to blackmail him, that's another matter. It sounds like they have a mountain of stuff on him.

NBC is reporting that the two pages given to Trump and Obama were labeled "disinformation." I have to read more, but I'm suspicious of that claim. If it were disinformation, why even give it to him?

[Warren DeMontague]

20. No, it only matters if there is video that comes out, which could also act as corroboration

For the rest of the stuff, as well as the obvious fallout it would cause directly.

I dont particularly care about the peeing hookers, per se, except ewwww and remind me not to stay in that hotel.

The crux of the biscuit to my mind is any direct coordination btw. Trump campaign and Putin, as well as any deals on policy points like Ukraine.

If such things were proven, that- to my mind- is "Yuuuuuuuge"

[Cha]

21. I believe that evidence will be forthcoming unless Trump is able to pull the rug out from under

investigators. And the only reason to do that would be because the claims are true."

Great OP and excellent point, B.. Mahalo!

[uponit7771]

40. op worthy!!!!

[ProudProgressiveNow]

46. +1 nt

[iluvtennis]

22. Agreed. BTW, is there anyway we the American ppl can put his inauguration on hold until...

...he is fully investigated on this collusion with Russia. I don't get why our national leaders are not outraged at this Russian influence and doing something about it. We really need to throw out the election results as it was not a free and fair election. How do we make that happen.

[mwooldri]

23. Trump can't pull the rug out from under the investigators.

The investigators aren't American.

That it's ex-MI6 investigating puts May in a bit of a spot... I'm sure she might have had a chat with her intelligence experts on the matter too... but will have to remain diplomatic.

Trump can't shut up the foreign press.

[BainsBane]

53. No, he assembled the 35 pg report

But the investigstion is now with the CIA and FBI.

The former MI6 agent who compiled the dossier now runs a private business, and he did it as a private contract.

Teresa May is trying to cozy up to Trump.

[JHan]

24. Euro intelligence will be motivated to expose whatever connections there are...

given Trump's views on NATO.

[Generator]

51. Yeah and the fact that he didn't rule out using nuclear weapons

on Europe. They think we're insane and they know he's insane.

[Shanti Mama]

25. No verification for months has me worried

I hope someone is able to verify some important bits to the story soon. It seems that credible, real news organizations have been trying without success. As it stands now, it bolsters Trump's assertion that it's made up to harm him. His fans and voters see it as reinforcement of their distrust of even our intelligence agencies. A distrust of these groups in not unfounded, but, in this case, we need to know they're providing accurate information.

[Orrex]

26. That's a wise precaution

Similarly unverified reports about Clinton or Obama would be accepted as gospel truth and would fill every news cycle. But with Trump (or with AWOL Bush Jr, for that matter), we need 100% certainty before the media will give the story any credibility.


Sad times.

[BainsBane]

27. Depends on what they were trying to verify

Also if it were complete crap, it wouldn't have made it into the intelligence briefing for the Potus and Peeotus.

I would also think it's tough for reporters to verify FSB operations.

[HoneyBadger]

28. Odd that no one is talking about the timeline

Trump has been working with the Russians for 8 years and he has been deep in the DNC and the Democratic Party. Doesn't anyone want to know who his operatives are? Who has been to Russia in that time frame? That is far easier than getting an FSB video. And potentially treason. Given that the dossier was paid for in part by a Democratic donor, those names have to be out there. Wonder if the media has them but is not releasing them.

[BainsBane]

29. That's the crucial part

People fixate on the sex, which is the least important.
But there was a report on PBS last night that the FBI obtained FISA warrants for those Trump campaign staffers.

[MineralMan]

31. And isn't that interesting? I will look forward

to what is revealed down the road on those staffers.

[BainsBane]

32. This Guardian article is interesting

the title is about McCain, but there is far more in it.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/10/fbi-chief-given-dossier-by-john-mccain-alleging-secret-trump-russia-contacts

[uponit7771]

39. +1

[mopinko]

41. paul manafort.

paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort. paul manafort.

[mcar]

33. It's real and the hits will keep coming

I believe the Intelligence agencies are taking care of it.

[Gothmog]

34. K&R

[riversedge]

43. I think you are right.

[Vinca]

44. I heard today it was from 2 difference sources and the videos were from 2 different cities and

contained audio. Supposedly the agent who got the information has worked with our agencies before and is reputable.

[GoCubsGo]

50. Yep. He's going to turn the US into another Russia.

What happened to Russia is what is our future, unless he and the GOP, who are also in on this, are stopped. He's going to bankrupt the country and sell its assets off to a handful of individuals, who will own and run everything, just like Russia did. That's why he is filling his cabinet full of Wall Street corporate raider types. It is what the GOP has wanted for many, many decades. It's why they (with the possible exceptions of McCain and Graham) have no problems with Comrade Golden Showers' ties to Putin.

[BainsBane]

54. into a Russian satellite

with Putin exercising control.

[marys]

55. It would not surprise me if its true or not

Until more is done to hold fake news story creators and publicizes accountable no one will be able to believe or not believe in which stories are true and which are not, for now it will be up to the user to decide. I think Germany is trying to heed off some fake news ahead of there elections by imposing fines for each news story Facebook runs we will see how that plays out for them and what kind of impact it will have on the results. The sad things is most U.S. based news organizations have no credibility with the people anymore after all is was most of them that said Hillary was going to win by 10 pints or more.

[bettyellen]

58. You do understand the news did not "make up" the poll numbers and so that has nothing to do with

Being untrustworthy.

[R B Garr]

56. Totally agree. Great thread and responses. Trump and his cronies are

just paving the way for their future business dealings with the true oligarchs. It's obvious he is creating conflict with the press and Intel so he can discount their findings. He gets scarier by the day.

[BainsBane]

57. Yes, I agree

that is why he blamed the intelligences agencies for the leak. He wants them painted as a political enemy so the deplorables don't believe when intel confirms he is a Russian asset.

BTW, it turns out Comey personally briefed Trump on the intel about him. So he even lied about that.

[Gothmog]

59. It is becoming clear that this not fake news

The video will turn up