Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

ghostsinthemachine

(3,569 posts)
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 05:15 PM Jan 2017

UC Davis shut down Yannopoulos, Shkreli event. Free Speech questions abound

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/education/article126629829.html

Five years after the pepper-spraying of peaceful protesters swamped UC Davis with negative publicity, another free-speech controversy thrust the normally quiet campus into the national spotlight this weekend.

On Friday, the Davis College Republicans canceled speeches by a far-right website editor and a notorious former pharmaceutical executive after raucous protesters created an atmosphere that campus administrators and police deemed dangerous.

The editor, Milo Yiannopoulos of Breitbart News, returned to campus Saturday, leading a counterprotest march of sorts and accusing the university on Facebook of forcing Friday’s event to stop before it started.

“UC Davis is lying to the press,” Yiannopoulos wrote. “They keep saying that the College Republicans were the ones to shut down the event last night. Not true. My staff were in meetings with the campus police and university administrators last night and were told by them that the event could not proceed.”

Kimberly Hale, a spokeswoman for UC Davis, said the university did not specifically order the shutdown. Instead, she said, police presented the student group with their concerns about how the situation was unfolding, and the group made the decision to cancel the speech.

“They (the College Republicans) were presented with the details of what was happening around the venue that evening,” Hale said. “Protesters were blocking the entrance, so to be able to get the ticketed persons inside the venue, that would have been difficult.”

Moving the protesters aside presented safety concerns, said university police spokesman Andy Fell.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/education/article126629829.html#storylink=cpy
88 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
UC Davis shut down Yannopoulos, Shkreli event. Free Speech questions abound (Original Post) ghostsinthemachine Jan 2017 OP
You either believe in free speech or you don't. Throd 2.0 Jan 2017 #1
I agree about free speech...also believe if folks disagree...they have rights too.. angstlessk Jan 2017 #5
Then don't go to the event. greytdemocrat Jan 2017 #39
Both the College Republicans and protesters exercised their freedom of speech SecularMotion Jan 2017 #8
Bingo geomon666 Jan 2017 #23
That's the most succinct rebuttal I've heard. hunter Jan 2017 #25
You are right, not every opinion is worth hearing Kilgore Jan 2017 #27
Well, they can stand on the corner and yell at the passing cars. hunter Jan 2017 #33
On specifically what is that allegation based on? LanternWaste Jan 2017 #74
The First Amendment Kilgore Jan 2017 #85
this TeamPooka Jan 2017 #40
I'd say ultimately the protesters lost Abq_Sarah Jan 2017 #61
Protestors were expressing their opinions & Brietbart ARE fascists, in bed w/NAZIs Maru Kitteh Jan 2017 #65
If you're trying to prevent someone else from exercising political speech Abq_Sarah Jan 2017 #68
If you are so very concerned about Nazi's not having enough venues to speak at Maru Kitteh Jan 2017 #70
Like I said Abq_Sarah Jan 2017 #72
Imagine what kind of hell DU would be if MIRT didn't ban certain posters. hunter Jan 2017 #78
So, your posts make it obvious you're dying to actually call me a goose-stepping brownshirt so why Maru Kitteh Jan 2017 #83
I'm not calling dying to call you anything Abq_Sarah Jan 2017 #88
Preventing a presentation that 2+2yellow is indicative of a goose-stepping brownshirt? LanternWaste Jan 2017 #75
Actually not. J_William_Ryan Jan 2017 #28
So do you believe in a heckler's veto on speech? tritsofme Jan 2017 #51
On Friday, the Davis College Republicans canceled speeches by a far-right website editor Read more Charles Bukowski Jan 2017 #2
They should have been allowed to speak AJT Jan 2017 #3
The First Amendment ONLY applies to government attempts to block free speech. 6000eliot Jan 2017 #4
People have the right to NOT hear hate speech! angstlessk Jan 2017 #7
No they don't. Throd 2.0 Jan 2017 #9
So..NOW YOU OWN MY EARS? angstlessk Jan 2017 #10
Bullshit. You can't label ideas you don't like as "hate speech" and deny others the right to speak. Throd 2.0 Jan 2017 #12
I can label anything I like, thank you very much... angstlessk Jan 2017 #15
So you're fine with authoritarian bullshit. Nice. Throd 2.0 Jan 2017 #19
Bullfuckingshit... angstlessk Jan 2017 #20
Think about what happens if Trump decides liberal thought is hate speech? mythology Jan 2017 #35
Yeah - they should have gone through the college procedures Yupster Jan 2017 #55
So you believe in bullying TransitJohn Jan 2017 #63
"I wonder if Trump will draw up some hate speech codes. I'm sure you will love those." Maru Kitteh Jan 2017 #66
Been here since 2004. These threads always go the same way. Throd 2.0 Jan 2017 #79
And anyone who wanted NOT to hear what Yannopolis had to say could just not attend. WillowTree Jan 2017 #59
Rigjt. To not hear it by not being there, not by preventing them from saying it. dionysus Jan 2017 #86
Free speech is FREE,,,NOT FORCED ...if students don't want to hear i angstlessk Jan 2017 #11
The students who did not want to hear AJT Jan 2017 #13
They DID have a right to object to it being on THEIR campus angstlessk Jan 2017 #14
Objecting and protesting is great AJT Jan 2017 #16
If the speakers were too afraid to speak... angstlessk Jan 2017 #17
The entrance was blocked AJT Jan 2017 #21
Let Rachel Maddow or John Lewis get physically blocked from entering a venue by Jake Stern Jan 2017 #29
Yeah but in the protesters' defense Yupster Jan 2017 #56
And people have a right to protest. NYC Liberal Jan 2017 #18
Fuck his rights. backscatter712 Jan 2017 #44
Dog shit underpants Jan 2017 #6
There are factions on both ends of the spectrum that don't believe in Free Speech madville Jan 2017 #22
When a college spends students tuition funds on speakers angstlessk Jan 2017 #24
Would you support it if College Republicans used that as a reason to block John Lewis from Speaking? Jake Stern Jan 2017 #30
They are free to try and be judged for those efforts TeamPooka Jan 2017 #41
That's the thing Jake Stern Jan 2017 #43
Good. Fuck Yannopoulos and Shkreli. Let them open their own University of Shithead. LuvLoogie Jan 2017 #26
Should not be allowed ProudLib72 Jan 2017 #31
Nice post Generator Jan 2017 #87
Great display of the power of free speech by the protesters. Nt NCTraveler Jan 2017 #32
See, this is stupid. GaYellowDawg Jan 2017 #34
Now I would watch that! Initech Jan 2017 #49
Just You-Tubed him Yupster Jan 2017 #73
Those trolls got exactly what they wanted Initech Jan 2017 #36
Milo played them like a fiddle Henry Krinkle Jan 2017 #37
I wouldn't give that asshole any platform. Initech Jan 2017 #38
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd.... That's exactly what they wanted. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #42
Who gives a shit what they want? backscatter712 Jan 2017 #45
Yeah, and the only reason "Milo" has a career is because he's good at getting "liberals" to try and Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #46
Ah, the old "Ignore a bully and he'll go away" advice... backscatter712 Jan 2017 #47
Right. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #50
No. There is such a thing as speech that is outside of civilized bounds, that needs to be stopped. backscatter712 Jan 2017 #53
Well, I'm sorry, but the tools to suppress the speech you don't like can be used against you, too. Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #57
And you can bet every dollar you make from now until Judgment Day the media will be there Jake Stern Jan 2017 #54
They're already using it against us. backscatter712 Jan 2017 #60
Those of us who don't want them to get any more notoriety or power care. TransitJohn Jan 2017 #64
They're just more right wing grifters, parasites on the ass of the church of stupid. hunter Jan 2017 #52
I don't have any problem with telling people "fuck off" Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #58
I have a much rougher concept of free speech than you do. hunter Jan 2017 #62
This LA Times writer had an interesting take on it, and she came to a lot of Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #80
That's the grifter's game, selling more books to congregants of the Church of Stupid. hunter Jan 2017 #81
Sometimes I wish I hadnt had so many "I-opening" entheogenic experiences as a lad Warren DeMontague Jan 2017 #82
They didn't shut them down, Yiannopoulos chickened out. grantcart Jan 2017 #48
They are the snowflakiest of all, Trump and the alt-right Nazi's, they CRUMPLE Maru Kitteh Jan 2017 #67
Free Speech is about the government not being able to censor speech, not a private institution Beaverhausen Jan 2017 #69
I know, right? Maru Kitteh Jan 2017 #71
It's exactly like the posters who scream how DU hates free speech just before MIRT shuts them down. hunter Jan 2017 #77
i think the country has been well served with right wing talking points. It is time to hear the still_one Jan 2017 #76
I'm all for free speech and debate. romanic Jan 2017 #84

angstlessk

(11,862 posts)
5. I agree about free speech...also believe if folks disagree...they have rights too..
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 05:35 PM
Jan 2017

to kick you out of THEIR venue! You have a right to spiel all you want...I also have a right not to hear it.

 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
8. Both the College Republicans and protesters exercised their freedom of speech
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 05:37 PM
Jan 2017

College Republicans lost.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
25. That's the most succinct rebuttal I've heard.
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 07:21 PM
Jan 2017

I'm so sick of people who believe every opinion is worth hearing.

Sometimes the best response to an asshole who's trying to get in your face is a hearty "FUCK OFF."



Kilgore

(1,733 posts)
27. You are right, not every opinion is worth hearing
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 07:49 PM
Jan 2017

But every opinion is worth saying.

Thats the definition of free speech.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
33. Well, they can stand on the corner and yell at the passing cars.
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 08:08 PM
Jan 2017

Last edited Sun Jan 15, 2017, 10:23 PM - Edit history (1)

We used to have a semi-homeless schizophrenic woman in town who would do that. Sometimes she'd throw cigarettes butts and other bits of garbage at the cars too.

If our idiot "free" press hadn't given Trump a free ride maybe we wouldn't be facing this horror.

Fuck'm.

Milo Yiannopoulos of Breitbart News can go to hell. Let them scream at the passing cars from their shitty websites.


 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
74. On specifically what is that allegation based on?
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 11:42 AM
Jan 2017

"But every opinion is worth saying..."

On specifically what objective measure is that allegation based on?

Kilgore

(1,733 posts)
85. The First Amendment
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 09:11 PM
Jan 2017

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Abq_Sarah

(2,883 posts)
61. I'd say ultimately the protesters lost
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 01:21 AM
Jan 2017

I mean seriously, attempting to prevent the speech of someone you don't like while waving a sign calling them Fascists?

Apparently, history and political science are optional for students at UC Davis.

Maru Kitteh

(28,303 posts)
65. Protestors were expressing their opinions & Brietbart ARE fascists, in bed w/NAZIs
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 02:34 AM
Jan 2017

They got called on it.

BOOOOOO HOOOOOO.

Fuck all those goose-stepping brownshirts.

Let that little misogynist neo-nazi fuck Milo take a bit of his own advice and just log the fuck off (and leave) since he feels "bullied."

Fuck him.

ETA;
Free Speech does not mean you are entitled to say whatever you like wherever you want, whenever you want to.

Just as I am not entitled to walk onto the set of NBC news and force them to allow me to speak about my opinions on breastfeeding circumcised babies at Olive Garden, Milo the fuckhead is not entitled to go about shit-stirring and watering little Nazi seedlings at every venue he wants without his precious little snowflake feelings getting hurt by protestors.

Sometimes, the forces that be will actually listen to protestors and rethink shitty decisions like giving a piece of shit like Milo a platform, venue and a microphone to spew hate.



Abq_Sarah

(2,883 posts)
68. If you're trying to prevent someone else from exercising political speech
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 03:17 AM
Jan 2017

Then you are the goose-stepping brownshirt.

Period.

Maru Kitteh

(28,303 posts)
70. If you are so very concerned about Nazi's not having enough venues to speak at
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 04:16 AM
Jan 2017

you should offer your front yard and put them up in your house or something.

The assholes already have a medium to exercise their political speech. They have a website and they have published books. They are exercising their political speech there. They are not ENTITLED to spew it everywhere and anywhere, every time and any time they want.

Fuck Nazi's.



Abq_Sarah

(2,883 posts)
72. Like I said
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 04:36 AM
Jan 2017

Those who try and prevent free speech are the goose-stepping brownshirts.

Sorry, that's just the way it is. You don't get to restrict the exercise of free speech by using violence and intimidation and then try to pretend the speaker is the "bad guy".

hunter

(38,264 posts)
78. Imagine what kind of hell DU would be if MIRT didn't ban certain posters.
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 03:16 PM
Jan 2017

Read the comment section of any poorly moderated anyone-can-post news site. Anti-intellectualism, racism, and misogyny are still thriving in the U.S.A..

"Free Speech" doesn't mean I'm obligated to listen respectfully to vile gibberish. I'm certainly not obligated to provide a platform for it.

If anyone thinks MY words here are vile gibberish then they're welcome to tell me so or put me on "ignore."

The only time I ever demanded a respectful audience is teaching, and even then it's not about respecting me, it's about students respecting one another. Teachers enjoy a very limited freedom of speech anyways. A teacher who is not teaching the subject, or a teacher who is being a sexist racist asshole, or a teacher who is verbally abusing students, etc., will be fired. That teacher will lose their platform.

It amuses me to hear Breitbart bullies throwing temper tantrums like toddlers. "Waaaahhhhh! These people won't listen to me respectfully! Free Speech, Free Speech!"

The only people they're fooling is the morons who support them.

They are terrified that straight white males will lose the privilege of being listened to respectfully, no matter how vile the gibberish they are spewing.

They are very well aware of how they've disrespected everyone else and they don't want a similar disrespect heaped upon them.

Well too bad, they reap what they sow. They'll just have to grow a thicker skin and learn the language of righteous anger, just as all the groups they've oppressed have. If their anger is not righteous, and it's not, we have no ethical obligation to respect or tolerate their tantrums.

Maru Kitteh

(28,303 posts)
83. So, your posts make it obvious you're dying to actually call me a goose-stepping brownshirt so why
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 07:21 PM
Jan 2017

Last edited Mon Jan 16, 2017, 08:00 PM - Edit history (1)

not just grow a pair of ovaries, exercise your free speech, and do it already?

According to you, free speech means you should be able to say anything you want, anywhere you want, anytime you want no matter what without any consequences so you know, grab a pair and go for it.

I'm dying to hear the sound of your cognitive dissonance shattering as you explain how sometimes rules may forbid such actions on internet sites but Milo Fucking Yannopolis or however the fuck you spell his name MUST be allowed to use the campus of UC Davis as a platform to recruit Nazis.

BTW, THERE WAS NO VIOLENCE, so your argument against the free speech of the protesters is just so much nothing.
"Fell said that while the situation was tense, there was no violence. No weapons were seized and no windows were broken.
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/education/article126629829.html#storylink=cpy

And again, because it cannot be said too many times -

FUCK Nazis. That's just the way it is.

Abq_Sarah

(2,883 posts)
88. I'm not calling dying to call you anything
Tue Jan 17, 2017, 04:40 AM
Jan 2017

I just wish you had a better understanding of the 1st amendment. It was specifically designed to protect political speech. Any entity that accepts taxpayer funds MUST respect it.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
75. Preventing a presentation that 2+2yellow is indicative of a goose-stepping brownshirt?
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 11:44 AM
Jan 2017

Preventing a presentation that 2+2=yellow is indicative of a goose-stepping brownshirt?

On what specific and objective measure you base that unsupported allegation on?

Question mark.

J_William_Ryan

(1,736 posts)
28. Actually not.
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 07:50 PM
Jan 2017

As with other rights the right to free speech is not ‘unlimited,’ it is subject to reasonable restrictions by government.

Time, place, and manner restrictions which are content neutral are perfectly Constitutional and in no manner ‘violate’ the First Amendment.

In this case the UC Davis event was canceled due to warranted safety concerns, not because the state sought to preempt Yiannopoulos’ speech or self-expression.

tritsofme

(17,325 posts)
51. So do you believe in a heckler's veto on speech?
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 10:21 PM
Jan 2017

If speech can be shut down on the basis of opponents causing "safety concerns" we have given them a heckler's to shut down whatever speech they find distasteful, with the implicit support of government. That is not acceptable.

 

Charles Bukowski

(1,132 posts)
2. On Friday, the Davis College Republicans canceled speeches by a far-right website editor Read more
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 05:18 PM
Jan 2017

Try "White Supremacist website editor" next time.

I'm sick of the press normalizing these fucks.

AJT

(5,240 posts)
3. They should have been allowed to speak
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 05:32 PM
Jan 2017

they are reprehensible, but they were invited by the student republican org. and that's the people who would have gone to hear them. They aren't war criminals or members of the KKK. Universities are places where differing views should be heard, it's part of allowing kids to make up their own minds. Free speech is a bedrock of democracy. I hope these kids come to understand that they were wrong. Free speech cuts both ways.

6000eliot

(5,643 posts)
4. The First Amendment ONLY applies to government attempts to block free speech.
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 05:35 PM
Jan 2017

Protestors ALSO have the right to speak.

 

Throd 2.0

(62 posts)
12. Bullshit. You can't label ideas you don't like as "hate speech" and deny others the right to speak.
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 05:46 PM
Jan 2017

Nobody says you have to pay attention to what other people say.

I wonder if Trump will draw up some hate speech codes. I'm sure you will love those.

angstlessk

(11,862 posts)
15. I can label anything I like, thank you very much...
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 06:00 PM
Jan 2017

If I and the majority do not wish for some asshole to spew hated on MY campus I have every right to deny them a venue!

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
35. Think about what happens if Trump decides liberal thought is hate speech?
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 08:22 PM
Jan 2017

No the university isn't obligated to give them a venue, but I would be very wary of saying that the majority should be allowed to determine what qualifies as hate speech. It's too easy for that to be misused.

Yupster

(14,308 posts)
55. Yeah - they should have gone through the college procedures
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 12:03 AM
Jan 2017

They should have gotten their event approved by the college and booked a venue far in advance.

Oh they did?

Then they shouldn't get to speak anyway because I don't like them.

Maru Kitteh

(28,303 posts)
66. "I wonder if Trump will draw up some hate speech codes. I'm sure you will love those."
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 02:38 AM
Jan 2017

Um. Welcome to DU, enjoy your stay?

 

Throd 2.0

(62 posts)
79. Been here since 2004. These threads always go the same way.
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 03:21 PM
Jan 2017

Seems that half of DU is only comfortable with free speech for ideas they like.

WillowTree

(5,325 posts)
59. And anyone who wanted NOT to hear what Yannopolis had to say could just not attend.
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 12:22 AM
Jan 2017

It's really just that simple.

AJT

(5,240 posts)
13. The students who did not want to hear
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 05:53 PM
Jan 2017

the speeches did not have to go hear them. This wasn't a captive audience situation, these were adults who did not have to attend if they didn’t want to. And blocking the entrance and making people feel threatened is not protesting.

angstlessk

(11,862 posts)
17. If the speakers were too afraid to speak...
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 06:04 PM
Jan 2017

oh, well...sometimes justice is just as cruel as injustice!

AJT

(5,240 posts)
21. The entrance was blocked
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 06:21 PM
Jan 2017

they couldn't get in. And if preventing someone from saying something you don't like is justice then you had better not object when conservative students physically block an invited liberal speaker from entering the place where they are supposed to speak. If Trump supporters had physically prevented Hillary from speaking at a venue would that have been okay? Protesting is great, physical intimidation is not.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
29. Let Rachel Maddow or John Lewis get physically blocked from entering a venue by
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 07:57 PM
Jan 2017

College Republicans and folks on DU would be howling for blood and demanding the DOJ intervene.

The audience for Milo and Skreli would have been almost exclusively conservatives.

Protest, tell people why you object to them being on campus but let them have their stupid speech.


Yupster

(14,308 posts)
56. Yeah but in the protesters' defense
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 12:06 AM
Jan 2017

They didn't like what Milo might have said.

I think I have reached old age, because I find myself thinking what is wrong with young people today? Back in my day, liberals were for free speech. Now they're all for protecting free speech unless it differs from the norm. Howe did things turn around so badly?

NYC Liberal

(20,132 posts)
18. And people have a right to protest.
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 06:05 PM
Jan 2017

The university or the group decided the protests would be too disruptive. That's their choice.

Unless you're suggesting that people not protest people or events they consider dangerous or hateful.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
44. Fuck his rights.
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 09:18 PM
Jan 2017

He's been stirring up mob-harassment on Twitter and elsewhere, leading to harassment of Leslie Jones, for example. He singled out a trans person at his events, broadcasting her picture on his big-screen Powerpoint slides, and then doing the same at several subsequent events.

Everywhere that subhuman toxic cockroach goes, a wave of hate and intolerance follows.

So am I in favor of squelching that Aunt Phyllis's free speech? HELL YEAH!

He can crawl back to his safe space with his pharma-bro criminal buddy and whine about it with his fellow SIWs (that's Social Injustice Warriors).

madville

(7,397 posts)
22. There are factions on both ends of the spectrum that don't believe in Free Speech
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 06:36 PM
Jan 2017

I don't agree with intentionally shutting down speech on either side. People are free to not listen to it or not attend any event if it offends them.

angstlessk

(11,862 posts)
24. When a college spends students tuition funds on speakers
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 07:01 PM
Jan 2017

they object...they have a right to object!

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
30. Would you support it if College Republicans used that as a reason to block John Lewis from Speaking?
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 08:02 PM
Jan 2017

They pay tuition as well and, by your logic, have every right to protest and deny access to John Lewis.

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
43. That's the thing
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 08:59 PM
Jan 2017

If it's used against them, it can be used against us.

Difference is they have much of the the media in their corner that will eagerly spin the story into those intolerant PC lefties trying to force their views down the throats of young, impressionable students.

LuvLoogie

(6,855 posts)
26. Good. Fuck Yannopoulos and Shkreli. Let them open their own University of Shithead.
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 07:45 PM
Jan 2017

And fuck 4-chan, alt-right, reddit trolls. Free THIS, bitches.

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
31. Should not be allowed
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 08:03 PM
Jan 2017

Breitbart is in the same league as Russian trolls. If you say that UC Davis should allow Yiannopoulos to speak, then you are saying Russia had every right to disseminate propaganda.

 

Generator

(7,770 posts)
87. Nice post
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 09:33 PM
Jan 2017

And the free speech people here would be fine with a holocaust denier too. The problem is-if someone is good looking or thoughtful and SOUNDS rational and smart, some idiots will believe the shit they day. I remember people on DU defending Holocaust deniers. They think free speech means any lie. "Suck it up and be beaten to death, snowflake.Stop whining about the holocaust or black people's feelings." That's Milo's belief system. Actual quotes of his.

Words matter. Milo is trying to convert students into being little neo-Nazi's. The people of this country are already so dumb I fear we are lost. I just don't know anymore. DU makes me despair as well. To say protesting against hearing a mini Goebells speak is Wrong makes me just want to give up on everyone. Or as someone said as a great answer to one of my threads: Blah blah blah. America is over in 4 days! YEAH

GaYellowDawg

(4,443 posts)
34. See, this is stupid.
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 08:16 PM
Jan 2017

They should have gotten them on campus and then fucking waxed them in the Q&A. And if the students didn't have the experience to beat them, then invite faculty to do so. You don't conquer bad ideas with censorship. You conquer them with good ideas.

Initech

(99,915 posts)
49. Now I would watch that!
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 10:10 PM
Jan 2017

Milo looks the part and talks a good game, but I bet he wouldn't last 5 minutes in an actual debate.

Yupster

(14,308 posts)
73. Just You-Tubed him
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 11:30 AM
Jan 2017

Speech I listened to was pretty offensive.

He took lots of questions at the end from students and faculty and visitors. Some friendly, some hostile.

He seemed to enjoy the banter. He made a big deal of being gay.

Initech

(99,915 posts)
36. Those trolls got exactly what they wanted
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 08:25 PM
Jan 2017

Now to retreat to their troll cave and complain that the liberals are big meanie heads.

 

Henry Krinkle

(208 posts)
37. Milo played them like a fiddle
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 08:32 PM
Jan 2017

Haven't these people figure it out by now that this is the kind of reaction he hopes for and thrives on?

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
46. Yeah, and the only reason "Milo" has a career is because he's good at getting "liberals" to try and
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 09:33 PM
Jan 2017

shut him up.

So, now he has another blurb to put on his book along with "read what authoritarian, free speech-hating left wing censors don't want you to be allowed to"

The guy talks for 15 minutes, people will realize there's no there there- he's just a troll. But the constant attempts to shut him up are causing his appearances to be packed.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
47. Ah, the old "Ignore a bully and he'll go away" advice...
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 09:45 PM
Jan 2017

...which is complete bullshit.

Milo doesn't have a career because liberals "try to shut him up".

Milo has a career because he demagogues hateful alt-right wannabee-nazi pieces of shit.

And we damned well should be protesting and pushing back and fighting. You stop a bully by punching him in the nose.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
50. Right.
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 10:13 PM
Jan 2017

He's laughing all the way to the bank, not "stopping".

And at least half of his shtick is the false (at least, one hopes) argument that it's "liberals" who hate free speech, who support censorship, etc. etc. He's not a Nazi, he's a fucking troll. I remember when real Nazis marched in Skokie, where there were real concentration camp victims. They were assholes (to put it mildly) but still... the ACLU was right to defend their freedom to march.

And the appropriate response was to counter their hate with speech saying they are outnumbered and they are the minority and far more people don't believe that shit.

Shutting down Milo plays right into his hands. Would ignoring him make him go away? I don't know, but this response only causes him to sell more books. You think this is going to make him go away? No, it isn't.

I agree with the person from the First Amendment Coalition quoted in the Sac Bee article:


“It sounds like the worst of all worlds happened here. Nobody got to speak,” said David Snyder, executive director of the First Amendment Coalition in San Rafael. “That’s not a good result.”

***

Snyder, with the First Amendment Coalition, said that what happened at UC Davis on Friday may have been what’s called “the heckler’s veto.” That’s when someone shouts so loud that a speaker is unable to continue, or when government officials, including police, silence a speaker to prevent anticipated violence. Such actions violate the speaker’s First Amendment rights, courts have ruled.

“It’s like a person standing up at city hall and yelling and causing (the meeting) to stop,” Snyder said. “One speaker doesn’t have the right to overshadow other speakers or cause so much commotion that the other person is drowned out.”

“The best solution is to have both of those points of view aired, not for one of those points of view to shout down the other.”



I support Free Speech. Period. Sorry. I think they were wrong to shut him down. I think it's stupid and counterproductive. Not gonna change my mind, either.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
53. No. There is such a thing as speech that is outside of civilized bounds, that needs to be stopped.
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 11:36 PM
Jan 2017

Why does modern-day Germany literally ban Nazi symbols, Nazi speech, and Nazi politics?

Because certain types of speech drive entire nations to madness, and cause countless deaths.

It happened in Germany in the 1920's and 1930's, and it's happening here in the U.S. today.

And Milo is one of those uttering speech that drives nations to madness.

May I remind you of the Twitter harassment campaigns Milo led against Leslie Jones, Anita Sarkeesian, and so many others? A series of campaigns that got Milo banhammered from Twitter, I may add. May I remind you that Milo singled out a trans student at one of his rallies, put her picture up on the big screen with her name, put her name and picture up and several more rallies, and got her hiding from death threats.

That kind of speech is causing real and genuine harm to the LGBTQIA community, driving suicide rates up, and kicking up the level of assaults and harassment LGBTQIA people experience. That kind of speech encourages the push for quashing of their civil liberties.

There are some times when the heckler's veto is justified, or when escalating the level of tension to riot-levels is justified. There are times when peaceful protest just doesn't work, and the bully needs that punch in the nose to adjust his attitude. There's a time when fascists need to be reminded that if they are set on taking other people's rights away, that they will pay for the rights that they take, IN BLOOD.

Sometimes, you have to speak their language... There's no other way. You say ignore them and their movement will die. They won't die. Milo will always have his mouthbreathing alt-right MRA shitheads drooling after him at his rallies. A message of turn-the-other-cheek is saying to them "Hit that other cheek too. They won't fight back."

So I say bash the fash...

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
57. Well, I'm sorry, but the tools to suppress the speech you don't like can be used against you, too.
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 12:12 AM
Jan 2017

Germany doesn't have the 1st Amendment. They don't have it now, and they also didn't have it in 1933.

We do. I like it that way.

The 1st Amendment is completely antithetical to everything Fascists believe in. Censoring them, or censoring anyone, is exactly what they want.

I'm a big boy. I come from a family of Jews who had people in the camps, and I still understand why the Nazis were allowed to march. I still support the ACLU, to this day. Because censoring them would have been a victory for what they believe in. Letting them speak, they lose.

As bad as Milo may have been during gamergate or whatever, the actual Nazis are worse. Sorry.

Twitter is a private platform, they can allow or disallow anyone they want on their site, much like DU.

However, using force to prevent people from speaking because you disagree with them, pelting them with dog poop, whatever. I can't get behind that. Sorry.

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
54. And you can bet every dollar you make from now until Judgment Day the media will be there
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 11:55 PM
Jan 2017

recording the whole thing.

Guess who they'll side with? The bully will accuse you of inciting violence and damn near every newspaper, teevee station and cable news network will be parroting that.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
60. They're already using it against us.
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 01:03 AM
Jan 2017

In Arizona, they're already trying to suppress social justice discourse on campuses.

These right-wing insects don't need any prompting from us to suppress our rights. They're hell-bound to do it, just from the hate oozed from their demagogues. They celebrate when a gay person or a trans person commits suicide.

So if they're going to come after us no matter what, might as well give them a reason. And let them know they if they hurt us, they will hurt too.

Understand this. We. Are. At. War. Wagging your finger at someone like Milo and his swarm of dung beetles, and saying "Play nice" doesn't work.

TransitJohn

(6,932 posts)
64. Those of us who don't want them to get any more notoriety or power care.
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 02:34 AM
Jan 2017

If nobody had paid attention, there would have been 20 people there who heard what they wanted, and these dickfucks would't be getting all this free publicity.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
52. They're just more right wing grifters, parasites on the ass of the church of stupid.
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 11:09 PM
Jan 2017

The morons will buy this crap and the very next day wonder where their beer money went.

We're not the one's being deceived, it's the noble defenders of gibberish that I mock.

Let the countdown begin... soon we'll be hearing that my attitude is why Trump won. They're wrong.

Trump won because there's a sucker born every minute and the Republican Party knows how to play them.

The U.S.A. suffers a mean streak of anti-intellectualism. It always has. Throw racism, sexism, xenophobia, and fundamentalist religion into the pot and it's amazing there's not more stink.

It's the brave defenders of "free speech," on this thread and others like it, who are being played.

Like I said above, some opinions are not worth listening to and sometimes the most appropriate response is "FUCK OFF!"

I have a lot more sympathy for the schizophrenic lady yelling at cars on the corner than I do the willfully ignorant. The willfully ignorant have got functional brains, they're just too lazy to use them. They'd rather be spoon fed pablum news stuff by the television than engage in any sort of critical thinking.

It's just so fucking sad.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
58. I don't have any problem with telling people "fuck off"
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 12:18 AM
Jan 2017

Anyone who's known me on DU these years, has probably figured that out by now.

But I'm not going to get tired of defending free speech, nor do I give a flying fuck if it bugs anyone. I've seen people here demand that everything from the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue to "blasphemous cartoons" should be censored if they bother someone.

I support free speech. Doesn't mean I don't think some people are blather-spewing imbeciles, be they "Milo the fabulous bad-haired troll" or the folks who think the First Amendment stops applying the minute someone says something that pisses them off.

They still have the right to free speech, which reasonably ought to include the ability to speak in a prearranged venue without being shut down by a dog poop throwing mob.

And I have the right to tell them to fuck off.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
62. I have a much rougher concept of free speech than you do.
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 01:57 AM
Jan 2017

Nobody deserves a polite venue. A lot of evil hides behind a veil of civility.

Aside from the dog poop and any other physical violence, this was two groups having a very heated discussion. Free speech.

This wasn't the police breaking up a prearranged venue (as happens in many nations), this wasn't Breitbart News being censored. Let these clowns find another venue that is more accepting of their bullshit.

It's possible I grew up in a much rougher environment than most people. Discussions about religion and politics were not forbidden at the dinner table, they were relished. Argument were heated. Sometimes people left early in anger. But most would eventually come back for more.

My mom is always at war with one religion of another. I joke that our family is pacifist by necessity, not by natural inclination, not even by any higher ethical standard. The berserker genes are strong in us. We landed with the Quakers after my mom was rejected by the Jehovah's Witnesses, with actual bouncers at the doors of the Kingdom Hall preventing her entry and some pushing and shoving. It was rather rougher treatment than DU's own MIRT, which simply revokes people's posting privileges and deletes their gibberish.

The Quakers would listen to my mom respectfully and then move on, but I won't claim anyone learned anything, or even changed their opinions. Really, the only thing holding the group together was their opposition to the war in Vietnam. Maybe some voices needed to be raised in anger. Maybe they could have caused some actual disruptions as the more radical Catholic pacifists were doing, laying down on railroad tracks to block arms shipments, stealing secret documents and giving them to the press, that sort of thing. That's a kind of free speech too, and it's not polite or even lawful.

I don't think I've participated in any of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue warfare here, if so I don't remember. And I'm a bad person, I thought the orgy cartoon floating about, the one offensive to all the major religions, was funny. My own religion is some kind of Social Justice Catholic Heretic. Unlike my mom, I haven't been kicked out of a Church yet, although I've avoided the places where people speak in tongues and stuff because I might fall to the floor laughing and they might mistake me for one of their own.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
80. This LA Times writer had an interesting take on it, and she came to a lot of
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 05:06 PM
Jan 2017

The same conclusions I did on the whole thing.

For one, though, she says that the breitbart reports of "violence" were exaggerated, not too surprisingly-

http://www.latimes.com/local/abcarian/la-me-abcarian-milo-20170115-story.html

You are right that no one is entitled to a "polite" reception. I am absolutely not saying no one should protest the guy, etc.

But as she notes, the likely takeaway here is he just ends up selling more books.



hunter

(38,264 posts)
81. That's the grifter's game, selling more books to congregants of the Church of Stupid.
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 06:28 PM
Jan 2017

People who buy these book are already decided; they're just looking for something to jerk off to.

They'll put these books on their nightstands, on top the stack of Maxim magazines and Sports Illustrated Swimsuit editions, the writing reflecting an imaginary world very much like the world of photoshopped women whose nipples you never see, and cars you'll never be able to buy.

Selling books to fools is another kind of free speech.

The political impact of these books is negligible in comparison to the "Fair and Balanced" saturation bombing campaigns of Stupid TV.

TV and Radio may be a place to find some leverage against the stupid by boycotting the advertisers who support it. But it's already a place where the worst grifters of the airwaves are supported by other grifters; people selling and buying gold at absurd prices, people selling worthless or dangerous financial advice, expensive pharmaceuticals no better and possibly more dangerous than inexpensive generics, political advertising from grifter politicians, etc..

Tell the marks what they want to hear and steal everything they've got.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
82. Sometimes I wish I hadnt had so many "I-opening" entheogenic experiences as a lad
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 07:16 PM
Jan 2017

If I didnt have a fundamental current of sincerity and (at least, one hopes) decency running through my core, I could totally play the role of right wing shitshingle shill. It would be exceedingly simple, as you say.

But as Tracy Chapman put it, "all that you have is your soul"- even though I'm not religious, I do believe that increasing the amount of fear and hate in the universe isnt a good bargain, no matter how much cash it brings in.

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
48. They didn't shut them down, Yiannopoulos chickened out.
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 10:02 PM
Jan 2017

They would have to face protestors expressing tier rights to express themselves.

Maru Kitteh

(28,303 posts)
67. They are the snowflakiest of all, Trump and the alt-right Nazi's, they CRUMPLE
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 02:58 AM
Jan 2017

whine and cry when someone stands up to them, when they have to ENDURE seeing or hearing anything that isn't fawning praise.

Beaverhausen

(24,467 posts)
69. Free Speech is about the government not being able to censor speech, not a private institution
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 03:35 AM
Jan 2017

good god, why don't some of you get that?

hunter

(38,264 posts)
77. It's exactly like the posters who scream how DU hates free speech just before MIRT shuts them down.
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 01:54 PM
Jan 2017

An analogy would be a comedy club. If you're not funny expect jeers, and don't be surprised if the management doesn't give you the stage again.

It would be a free speech issue if the police charged into the club because you were making jokes about them or the government.

It's not a free speech issue if the audience jeers you off the stage, or management turns off your mike.

These Breitbart clowns got jeered off a stage.

Big deal.

Here in the U.S.A., civil rights leaders, unionists, and anti-war activists have suffered far worse.

It's something to remember on Martin Luther King Day.

still_one

(91,965 posts)
76. i think the country has been well served with right wing talking points. It is time to hear the
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 11:55 AM
Jan 2017

other perspective

romanic

(2,841 posts)
84. I'm all for free speech and debate.
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 08:52 PM
Jan 2017

I'm also for that lizard Shkreli getting walloped with dog shit so I'm conflicted. Lol

But being serious, there's nothing stopping the right or the alt-right doing this to liberal/leftist speakets. Like someone said, if you can use it against them, they can use it against you.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»UC Davis shut down Yannop...