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DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 07:04 AM Jan 2017

why Trump loves Brexit (talk me down)

there have been several articles printed here about the "Cal exit" which of course turned out to be run by an anti-gay activist living in Russia. There is also been talk of a Texas exit; yes I know that gets bantered about when Rick Perry normally needs a cheap boost, Rick Perry as in the person who as head of our Department of Energy knows where our nukes are. What am I getting at you ask?

Okay I'll be blunt. I am wondering if part of the overall plan with the GOP is to go ahead and either allow states to exit or outright encourage them. Now, we know why the Russians would like it; they see us as to blame for not merely helping push the Soviet Union into history, but also dividing areas that they considered as much part of Russia as Moscow. Now, the part of jersey I grew up in had a lot of people from what would now be considered independent states; the Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia. These were all places that if you grew up as a Soviet you consider them part of your country. Of course, let's not forget various countries ending in Stan, which frankly have much more kinship to Iran then to Russia. It also helps that to be fair the US did meddle in places that Mikael Gorbachev believed he had an agreement would be left off limits.

However, while we could talk about why the Russians with like to see a less United States, let's go ahead and focus on why there are many Americans would also like to see that. Is not just simply a matter of cultural differences; absolutely no nation on the planet, from China to France to India is a homogenous culture. Every nation has several cultures within it, cultures which live in various states of agreement between themselves and whatever capital city runs whatever nation state. However, in the age of multinational corporations, some of whom are actually big enough to become actual rivals to the idea of state power, small nations are desirable. Small nations can only provide so much of a unified front against them. It is exactly the same reason why in this country the Republicans focus so much on "states rights", unless of course involves medical marijuana, or doing a vote recount. It is very easy for multinational corporation to go into a state, even a large state, even one as big as a European country, and make sure all politicians are either bought off or eliminated.

Now while I would like to think the California might be able to pursue some paths that, frankly the rest of the country should've done, I also see a lot of potential danger, especially since it houses Silicon Valley. This is not to downgrade the sincere liberal efforts of many Californians, but you also know that there are certain right-wing enclaves, the Orange counties, the Silicon Valley's even loggers in the area called Jefferson that would gladly act with multinational corporations to force our right wing change in the culture. As far as Texas goes, I have a serious warm place in my heart for Texan liberals, and I see this as a Florida liberal who can sing a version of "red state liberal blues" that would only vary from yours by and maybe a few notes, especially as Florida is slowly but surely being turned into Texas, thanks to two straight Republican governors that came from that state. However, let's be honest, if Texas no longer had to worry about Washington, the oil barons and the Cowboys would ally to make sure that Texas was the wildest corporate bordello in the West.

I know that there are other places that have talked about the idea of secession, the Pacific Northwest for example, and while I can certainly sympathize for not wanting to go ahead and get drag along every four years because the Republicans have turned the electoral college into a a means of stealing elections that they could not win, I also have to ask, what multinational corporation is going to take advantage of it. The one thing our enemies in the GOP, and the worldwide oligarchy have, is unity. Despite the fact that they do generally hate each other, and that they are always looking to backstab each other, whenever it comes to the need for cooperative action, they will walk in lock step. Rick Perry is again a perfect example as someone who generally hated Trump but is willing to serve him.

There is also one factor that I not seen a lot of talk about, and this would especially be in regards to the Pacific. How is Russia going to attempt to use this against China? Now I know this seems a little out there hear me out as much is Russia is used to having America as traditional enemy, Putin is not stupid, and he knows that if 1.3 billion Chinese decide that they want to go ahead and take his oil and other natural resources that really would be a lot he could do to stop them. We at least are protected by our oceans, the Chinese word have to do one of the greatest naval buildups and operations if they were going to seriously tried to attack the Pacific side of America. It's not like they could not do a lot of damage especially in the age of the ICBM, but unless they were willing to go nuclear wake they know that ICBMs only do so much and that even a very high population like what they have would not be able to survive a full nuclear exchange. Russia however is different, because for all the Russian glory, a nation of 150 million people versus a nation of 1.3 billion people is only going to be able to put up so much of a fight. So, suppose Russia who stayed owns a lot of multinational corporations can somehow find a means of containing the Chinese in the Pacific. No I'm not talking about getting a warm hello ha in a newly free Republic of Hawaii, were peoples Republic of Northern California, although that would be a very nice end goal. I'm talking about choking the Chinese off trade.

Let's face facts, as much is the Chinese may have genuine reason to distrust and dislike us, they know that their rise to being the new superpower was built on one thing, people buying their stuff. Now, since Europe is now filled with a bunch of xenophobic, closed off nations, I do not even want to trade with each other that much, much less China a silent story is the fact that Russia, through his influence in Europe, can show off the market from the Chinese, or at the very least keep a tight leash on it. After all if Marine Le Pen wins France, it will be because the French don't even want to trade with the English that much, or the Germans, much less the Chinese. That already has probably hit the bottom line of many companies that are watched over, and linked to Beijing. If he can go ahead and do the same thing to America, especially California but also even Texas he can go ahead and attack the very entities like Walmart that the Chinese need to keep their factories running.

I can hear some people laughing in the back, in a figurative sense. Let me ask you this: why, barely a week into his "office" as president elect, where the Taiwanese allowed to call Trump? Note that he very easily could have gone ahead and said "I'm sorry, I'm just preparing for my office." After all, it's not January 20, and Obama has not disappeared into any puff of smoke. Well, what did Mr. Trump do? The very first thing that came out of his lips was that the one China policy, one of the policies that actually kept peace in the region, might not survive him. He also said that he does not believe that China should keep its islands in the South China Sea. And who did he appoint for Secretary of State?, T Rex ties to Moscow are very well documented, but let's not forget one item that was not reported very much of the news, even though it damn well should have been: he wants to blockade of the South China Sea as a means of reducing Chinese influence! You do realize that is what wars are started over, right? And you do realize that nothing would improve the fortunes of Russia fantasy China and the US bogged down in a war, be it a trade war (which could still leave millions of people starving to death the process" or an actual bang bang war, especially as the Chinese would become very dependent on Russian oil all of a sudden. It does not hurt that Ira, for China gets most of its oil from today, is a Russian ally. Tehran would have had every reason to backstab the Chinese if the Russians made a sweet enough deal, especially as for all this talk about how the Republicans are so mad at Obama's Iran deal, just like Medicare, just like Obama care, they would be very happy to take something, give it a fresh coat of red paint, and say it was their idea all along, especially if it could be sweetened with good old cash, and the promise of new jobs.

So what was the point of this essay so to speak? What worries me is that I do not think that the corporations, or the Russians have to be very successful in promoting secession efforts, even if all 50 states were to remain intact, they could undermine the structure enough to do mischief and gaining influence. Do remember that termites don't go ahead and chop down trees like lumberjacks, they know of them from within, so that even something that looks sturdy and eternal can be so internally nod the strong wind knocks it down. What's worse, thanks in part to the right, but also to the self-appointed "far left", there are people really are getting sweet to the idea of actually getting rid of the union. These folks remind me of the Trump voters who by summer time, by the Fourth of July will be howling at the moon because their Medicare and Social Security, which have been the few things keeping them from going to the poorhouse or the streets, are under attack. It might be tempting to go ahead and make your own country that will reflect your own culture, even though like any nation, it will promote one culture's dominant, ever rest as subcultures. For further information on that ask many minorities, be they black, Native American, Hispanic why it's so hard to get a house in the Pacific Northwest or in California; they know that regardless of flag things will not change, rather the same people who get the advantage, which they refused to call privilege, will keep the good stuff. But even worse, a lot of people in these areas do not realize that that was not for federal regulation, and the real threat the feds could come in smack around those state governments, a lot of the people that call them friends will be the first to either drag you off you down. Why else is the Trump presidency been marked by an increase not only race of related violence, but the actual organization of the sort of people we used to call heat groups, but now should treat them like the militia that they have been ever since Nathan Bedford Forrest continue to wage the Civil War, generally be Dan!

I am not saying that there is not a hell of a lot more for allowing cultures to be cultures. If anything the one thing multinational corporations of done is spread McDonald's, Starbucks, Walmart to the point where a lot of native culture has been shipped out. It used to be that a hot dog in Texas was different from the New York hotdog, was different from the Chicago dog etc. There is nothing wrong with wanting out sort of culture back again however we are only as strong as we are united when accounts, and in age were multinational corporations, and states that use multinational corporations to mask their own corruption, we had better be able to mount a true United resistance. A bunch of chieftains all trying to carry on their own agenda bickering as the enemies have already conquered the beachhead is a recipe for slavery, and other things that make death look like sweet relief.

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why Trump loves Brexit (talk me down) (Original Post) DonCoquixote Jan 2017 OP
A few things: DetlefK Jan 2017 #1
There's no such grand strategy, in my opinion. Trump praised Brexit becaue... Buckeye_Democrat Jan 2017 #2

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
1. A few things:
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 07:43 AM
Jan 2017

1. I agree with the notion that Russia still regards the former members of the Soviet Union as russian "property".

2. While a corporation can bully a small nation/state and therefore wants fragmentation, conglomerate entities like the EU and the US offer the advantage that your lobbying can influence all members at once.

3. A big diplomatic/economic conflict is brewing between Russia and China, that will start to play out in 10-20 years.
What am I talking about?
Putin is trying to erect a financial alliance in Central Asia, similar to the EU in Europe, to bond those former soviet countries closer to Russia.
At the same time, China wants to bring the Silk-Road back: A transcontinental highway from China through Central Asia and into the Middle-East. That would bond those countries closer to China.

(Btw, there is currently a massive influx of legal and illegal chinese immigrants into northeastern Russia. Russia welcomes them, because they bring population into this godforsaken corner of nowhere, but I wonder how much loyalty those chinese immigrants have to China and how much loyalty they have to Russia.)

4. I doubt that Trump has an actual strategy when it comes to China. He's a bully and wants to use the US to club China. There is no plan.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,853 posts)
2. There's no such grand strategy, in my opinion. Trump praised Brexit becaue...
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 07:58 AM
Jan 2017

it was similar to his own campaign -- nationalistic and xenophobic.

Brexit promised fewer immigrants and less UK money being "wasted" in the EU when it could be invested/spent at home. Trump promised fewer immigrants and less USA money being "wasted" on NATO and various allies who don't "pull their weight" supposedly.

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