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Chasstev365

(5,191 posts)
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 08:15 PM Jan 2017

Safeguarding the next election will be tough, but we must get rid of electronic voting machines

I know impossible.

1. The GOP Congress will NEVER agree to it.

2. Most of the States are in GOP hands.

What we should do is, either by referendum or by contacting our Democratic state legislators, get electronic voting banned. What this will do is prove that in states with no electronic voting machines the polls are spot on, whereas in the states with electronic voting machines, the polls are "miraculous" wrong and douchebags like Trump suddenly win the swing states.

I know; it's a little like sending AL Capone to jail for not paying his taxes instead of murder, but it's better but than nothing!

It would clearly show the nation that these elections are being stolen by the GOP.

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Safeguarding the next election will be tough, but we must get rid of electronic voting machines (Original Post) Chasstev365 Jan 2017 OP
Electronic voting backed by paper ballots (I like the scan system) is the best solution. Yo_Mama Jan 2017 #1
Thats what we have here in Oklahoma madokie Jan 2017 #3
Some states have recount laws when it is close, so no money needs to be presented. Yo_Mama Jan 2017 #13
NO, because the paper ballots never get seen, unless the PTB approve it. TheFrenchRazor Jan 2017 #10
+1, if we don't stop the hacking and voter suppression why in the hell talk about 18 !!!!!!!! uponit7771 Jan 2017 #2
We need my dream Amendment XXVIII 47of74 Jan 2017 #4
you didn't include outlawing electronic voting, so none of the other stuff matters. nt TheFrenchRazor Jan 2017 #11
Here's my dream Amendment XXIX, a.k.a, the Natural Personhood Amendment meow2u3 Jan 2017 #14
It doesn't need to be banned, just have a paper audit trail Lee-Lee Jan 2017 #5
you would be lucky to get the results from that 1 precinct reversed, if a deiscrepancy was found, TheFrenchRazor Jan 2017 #16
I've posted links to this article for the last 2 years,... Jimbo101 Jan 2017 #6
Enlightening Chasstev365 Jan 2017 #7
Anyone can lue or refuse to answer exit polls. I don't why people love dionysus Jan 2017 #8
exit polls are a check on the veracity of vote count totals; duh. and no, cheating can not occur TheFrenchRazor Jan 2017 #12
why not mercuryblues Jan 2017 #9
And optical scanners with cellular connectivity (so they can connect to the Internet). pnwmom Jan 2017 #15

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
1. Electronic voting backed by paper ballots (I like the scan system) is the best solution.
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 08:19 PM
Jan 2017

Results are rapid and a real recount is always possible.

Straight electronic voting without a paper ballot is always possible to futz, although manual check-ins do provide some level of accountability.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
3. Thats what we have here in Oklahoma
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 08:27 PM
Jan 2017

but a recount is astronomical. No one can afford to recount the whole state. I forget what the figure per precincts is but its several thousand bucks. then multiply by the number of precincts and you can see where we are. Paper ballots hand counted is the only true way to have honest elections

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
13. Some states have recount laws when it is close, so no money needs to be presented.
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 11:28 PM
Jan 2017

I think those are good laws.

Also, standard random audits after each election do a lot to control fraud/sloppiness.

 

TheFrenchRazor

(2,116 posts)
10. NO, because the paper ballots never get seen, unless the PTB approve it.
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 11:16 PM
Jan 2017

we need all paper, all the time.

 

47of74

(18,470 posts)
4. We need my dream Amendment XXVIII
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 08:29 PM
Jan 2017

It would look something like this.


Amendment XXVIII

Section 1
The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State for any reason whatsoever.

Section 2
Every official of the United States has an affirmative duty to ensure that all United States citizens has every opportunity to vote. Suppression of votes, preventing United States citizens from casting their votes, or electoral fraud shall be punishable by life imprisonment without parole.

Section 3
Any interference with an election of the United States by a foreign power shall be considered an act of war against the United States, and the United States shall respond accordingly. Failure to respond appropriately shall be considered grounds for impeachment of the President or members of Congress.

Section 4
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction, for any reason whatsoever. Violation of this section shall be punishable by life imprisonment without parole.

Section 5
The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. There shall be no time limit on ratification of this amendment by the states.


Sounds harsh, but I think harsh is what we need at this point.

meow2u3

(24,743 posts)
14. Here's my dream Amendment XXIX, a.k.a, the Natural Personhood Amendment
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 11:35 PM
Jan 2017

My proposed amendment would look something like this:


Amendment XXIX

Section 1
Only natural persons shall be regarded as persons under the Constitution and Laws of the United States of America and of the Several States.

Section 2
All business or other artificial legal entities are to be regarded as entities under the Constitution of the United States of America and of the Several States. No business entity or any other artificial legal entity shall enjoy the rights, privileges, and immunities of persons.

Section 3
The Congress shall have power to enforce this artice by appropriate legislation. There shall be no time limit on ratification of this amendment by the states.

Section 4
This amendment is to go into effect immediately upon ratification.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
5. It doesn't need to be banned, just have a paper audit trail
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 08:30 PM
Jan 2017

Here in NC we have electronic touch screen machines that print not just your final ballot, but every keystroke you make. You can watch the paper scroll by right next to your touch screen.

At random in every county after the election precincts are selected at random to be audited where the paper trail is compared to the electronic tally.

The precincts chosen are only chosen after the election in a public, random way so nobody knows before where the audit will be in every county:

This gives all the advantages of electronic balloting but with a real physical paper trail you can check in a partial audit or fully in a recount of a close race.

 

TheFrenchRazor

(2,116 posts)
16. you would be lucky to get the results from that 1 precinct reversed, if a deiscrepancy was found,
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 11:44 PM
Jan 2017

and that does nothing about all the precincts/machines that went untested. plus, i'm sure that a skilled hacker could find a way to defeat the recount function. there is absolutely no need to have electronic voting machines, and they open up almost limitless opportunities for election tampering. all paper, hand-counted ballots is the most secure, although certainly not foolproof.

Jimbo101

(776 posts)
6. I've posted links to this article for the last 2 years,...
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 08:50 PM
Jan 2017
https://www.wired.com/2015/09/dismal-state-americas-decade-old-voting-machines/

The Dismal State of America’s Decade-Old Voting Machines - 9.9.2015

As the US presidential election season heats up, the public has focused on the candidates vying for the nation’s top office. But whether Donald Trump will secure the Republican nomination is secondary to a more serious quandary: whether the nation’s voting machines will hold up when Americans head to the polls in 2016.

Nearly every state is using electronic touchscreen and optical-scan voting systems that are at least a decade old, according to a report by the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law (.pdf). Beyond the fact the machines are technologically antiquated, after years of wear and tear, states are reporting increasing problems with degrading touchscreens, worn-out modems for transmitting election results, and failing motherboards and memory cards.

States using machines that are at least 15 years old include Florida, Kentucky, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Texas, Virginia, and Washington, which means they are far behind even a casual tech user in keeping pace with technological advancements.

The average lifespan of a laptop computer is three to five years, after which most consumers and businesses replace their machines. Computer users also generally upgrade their operating systems every other year or so as Microsoft and Apple release major software overhauls—including security upgrades. But US voting machines, which are responsible for overseeing the most important election in the country, have failed to keep up.

In addition to this problem, a number of voting machine vendors have gone out of business, making it difficult for states to find parts to service their machines. Forty-three states use systems that are no longer manufactured. Some election officials have resorted to scouring eBay for decommissioned equipment they can cannibalize to extend the life of their machines. Georgia was in such dire straits over the lack of parts for its voting machines that it hired a consultant to build customized hardware that could run its Windows 2000-based election system software.

dionysus

(26,467 posts)
8. Anyone can lue or refuse to answer exit polls. I don't why people love
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 08:57 PM
Jan 2017

Them so much...

Electronic voting is not going away, and it would be easy to secure them, as well as using a paper trail.

Cheating can also occur with paper ballots just as easily.

Theres no reason to waste a ton of many buying thousands of new machines, and th rethugs would make sure it takes 100 years tonreplace them in poor districts anyways.

 

TheFrenchRazor

(2,116 posts)
12. exit polls are a check on the veracity of vote count totals; duh. and no, cheating can not occur
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 11:20 PM
Jan 2017

occur just as easily with paper ballots. yes it is possible, but the magnitude of the fraud would be less. btw, exit polls in this country USED to be very accurate; up until about... 2000. go figure.

mercuryblues

(14,489 posts)
9. why not
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 11:00 PM
Jan 2017

Call in the UN to monitor our elections. I have no faith in them. Not since Bush and that debacle. I even think Obama won by bigger margins than what they say he did.

The thing is we have to turn out in numbers not only to win, but to overpower their voter suppression and hacks.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
15. And optical scanners with cellular connectivity (so they can connect to the Internet).
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 11:38 PM
Jan 2017

And then we need to have an automatic audit of a random portion of those paper ballots, with a full recount to follow if the audit shows any problems.

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