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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLying about illegal voting is cover for election manipulation
It redirects the focus from the many tactics used to manipulate the election - purging; gerrymandering; providing too few working machines, having fewer polling places in college areas, poorer districts, and those with higher numbers of people of color; placing barriers to registration; and hacking by a foreign country.
It is an attempt to change the conversation from the above to one about whether or not illegal voting occurred. As with their other lies, they don't care about needing or even trying to prove this. They only care about redirecting the the topic.
triron
(21,984 posts)same tactic before the election, just different phrases.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)global1
(25,225 posts)Last edited Tue Jan 24, 2017, 08:06 PM - Edit history (1)
the perfect opportunity to call for an intensive investigation into the voting and election process.
I posted this elsewhere at least two times now and am posting this again here:
The Dems Need To Call Trump On His Allegations And Make Him Put Up Or Shut Up.....
The Dems need to call for and push for an investigation about his claims that "3 to 5 million people" had voted illegally in the 2016 election. They need to say if this president believes this to be true that it completely undermines the whole election process and actions need to be taken to prevent this from happening in further elections.
They need to say that such an investigation needs to be comprehensive in that it will involve a thorough review of the voting and the election process in each state and that this investigation should result in standardizing the voting and election process across all the states. This would result in the possibility of either paper ballot voting or standardized voting machines (same in all states); prohibit reporting of results of an election until all votes are in across the country and they are reviewed and certified.
The American People need to be reassured that the process works and that their vote counts.
I believe that if the Dems push for such an investigation it will get the support of the American People or it will put Trump on notice that his lies have consequences and maybe prevent him from any future lies or putting out alternative facts.
Mister Ed
(5,924 posts)suffragette
(12,232 posts)I don't disagree with what you are proposing. Unfortunately, history shows that's not the direction the Republican majority would allow or take.
They've done that before when they tried to overturn Sanchez's victory over Dornan in California.
Back then, even all the attempts to repress the Latino vote (and there were many documented ones) weren't enough to keep Dornan in his seat.
Dornan kept screaming about voter fraud by "illegals" and throwing out wild stories about 'proof' that undocumented people had voted for Sanchez. He was very similar to Trump in many ways.
The LA Times ran quite a number of articles on this at the time, including investigative reporting that debunked some of his most flagrant lies.
Republicans in DC pushed for an investigation. They supposedly found a certain number of fraudulent votes. That number and the supposed fact that some were found was reported, of course as fact even though that was suspect as well. Still, not surprisingly, they could not find enough of a difference to overturn the result that Sanchez won.
While they were doing this, they also pushed for new legislation to make it even harder to register and vote. That is another part of why they push this BS about voter fraud so hard.
Meanwhile the genuine issue of the voter repression that occurred was not given the attention and was not being investigated.
http://articles.latimes.com/1997/sep/28/local/me-37111
Sanchez spokesman John Shallman said that if Republicans can show there are 984 individuals who voted fraudulently and that they cast ballots for Sanchez, then there should be a new election.
However, he said Sanchez and Democrats have reservations about the objectivity of the investigation.
"Thus far, the investigation has been anything but fair," he said. "It has been a farce."
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/13/cq/sanchez.html
Democrats have characterized the probe as a witch hunt, charging that Republicans sought to unfairly single out and intimidate Hispanic voters. Rep. Steny H. Hoyer of Maryland, the lone Democrat on the task force, said of the panel's recommendation, "It's never too late to do the right thing."
Sanchez celebrated surrounded by House Minority Leader Richard A. Gephardt, D-Mo., and cheering Democratic lawmakers and staff at a rally held just after the task force's decision. "I feel great," Sanchez said. "When you stand up and you fight for something and you know that you're right, justice can prevail."
Gephardt said: "Loretta won this election fair and square. There's never been a doubt in my mind."
http://articles.latimes.com/1998/feb/13/local/me-18643
The committee had arrived at this figure by matching Orange County voter rolls with data provided by the INS. But in at least 226 of the cases, differences in addresses or signatures raised questions about whether the matches were precise.
"We categorically deny that there is substantial proof that there is anywhere near 600, 500, 400, 300, 200 improper votes," said Rep. Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.), a member of the task force that conducted the probe. "Our analysis shows that their number is wildly inflated."
Republicans on the oversight panel said that while investigators were unable to prove there were more illegal votes than Sanchez's margin of victory, the findings were nonetheless troubling.
On top of all that, Dornan and his family actually made money from all this.
global1
(25,225 posts)in a local election - from a Dem to a Repug.
This is a national election and the elected president himself is saying that 3 to 5 million voted illegally. That calls to question our very democracy if Trump could back that up with proof. The American People need to be reassured that our election system works across the board. This is not just a state issue. This involves all the states.
I believe we have a very narrow window here. The Dems need to call for this investigation ASAP before people like Lindsey Graham talk Trump into retracting his allegation. Once Trump retracts - the possibility of an investigation evaporates in the alternate fact universe.
We have an opportunity that Trump served up to us Dems and calling for an investigation puts them (the Repugs and Trump) on the spot. Like I said this could make them put up or shut up.
If we call for an investigation and Trump backs off of his allegation - we've exposed him as a liar; a conspiracy theorist; a man with a big ego that can't have anyone show him up. I believe he has shot himself in the foot with this one - and we can't let this opportunity go away.
If he doesn't back off of his allegation - the investigation has to show that 3 to 5 million people voted illegally - and I really think that is a stretch. He still looks bad. And who knows - in the process we just might be able to uncover some of the dirty tricks the Repugs use to cheat and win.
This past weekend marches - showed me that the American People are up for such an investigation.
We need to move fast though.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)even more voter suppression.
I get what you're saying about a difference being that the winner of the election is the one making the claim this time and I agree it makes a difference in some ways.
The more I think back to the Dornan/Sanchez election though, the more I see certain similarities here.
One example is the bogus claims that Dornan made then, even providing some names to the LA Times and stating these people committed voter fraud. The LA Times investigated those and found that for the most part these were people with similar names (mostly Latino) and they were eligible to vote.
With Crosscheck, they've taken the same damn idea and process, but they've now taken it across state lines to a national level and they managed to get some states to actually purge these legal voters. This despite it being illegal to purge them and despite the LA TImes having exposed it back in the 90s and publications like Rolling Stone exposing how Crosscheck is doing it now.
Keep on posting this..but not just on DU
You've got an outstanding idea here, and you need to share it; and WE need to share it too.
Go to other sites and post it there too.
For example:
- Thom Hartmann Show (Free to join - You can post your own blog there)
- Facebook, Twitter (140 characters only) + any other social websites you belong to
Go to ALL the progressive news websites & post it:
including the following:
- Mother Jones
- The Nation
- Truthdig
- Daily Kos
- Alternet
- Crooks & Liars
- Talking Points Memo
- Raw Story
- Think Progress
- Counterpunch
- Right Wing Watch
- OpEd News
- In These Times
- Politicucusa
- Any other progressive websites you can think of
Contact:
- Michael Moore
- Gregg Palast (He's frequently on DU)
- Rachel Maddow
- Stephanie Miller
- Mike Malloy
- Randi Rhodes
- Brad Fiedman
- Howard dean
- and anyone else you can think of, including Democratic leaders in Congress
(Use Google searches to get website contact info)
WE ALL should contact these websites, as well as other progressive websites as well, and re-post global1's reply to this thread, and we need to strike NOW, while "the coals are hot"
Trump has opened a can of worms here, and we need to act NOW!...ALL OF US!
JudyM
(29,206 posts)If anyone knows how to get a petition going, this would be the time!
radical noodle
(7,997 posts)suffragette
(12,232 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,605 posts)suffragette
(12,232 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(60,009 posts)suffragette
(12,232 posts)Turn CO Blue
(4,221 posts)suffragette
(12,232 posts)Cracklin Charlie
(12,904 posts)Was there to make sure that didn't happen?
Is Trump saying that all the states that used/purchased the software, got tricked into buying something that didn't work?
He must be hearing lots of scuttle about how they purloined the election...he's out talking about it every day.
Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)I've often wondered if that is where he got the idea. Kobach could justify Crosscheck by spouting that nonsense.
Problem is the alt right media will report Trump's statement as truth and his base will believe it, justifying more Crosscheck and rigid voter ID laws, etc.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)I like the way you turned his talking points back against him.
Nicely done.
We need more of that, along with more of the great investigative reporting like Rolling Stones expose of Crosscheck.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/the-gops-stealth-war-against-voters-w435890
unitedwethrive
(1,997 posts)far and wide!
suffragette
(12,232 posts)alarimer
(16,245 posts)Projection is all it is.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)It's the reality show motto. Too many seem to lap up the gruel served by those who seek to dominate them.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Also point out it's not true.
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)with my strength and weakness. I believe in the Republic on which we stand, for better or worse.
The "worse" is not acceptable too me. Between a rock and and a hard place?
Response to suffragette (Original post)
Pacifist Patriot This message was self-deleted by its author.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/white-house-doubles-down-trump-s-debunked-illegal-voter-claim-n711526
"These are not 'alternative facts.' They are corrosive lies without any evidence. Even leaders in the President's own party agree there is no evidence to support his claims since they were irresponsibly made back in November," Padilla said.
"Rather than continue to deliberately deceive the American people about his nearly 3 million vote loss, the President should focus on addressing the substantiated threats reported by our intelligence community."
Rene
(1,183 posts)Distributed batch job execution that runs programs on servers are usually set up with a primary and a secondary server....serverA and ServerB......per url addresses.
Same program/script names are usually on both servers....but I believe serverB's pgm is rigged. Call it scriptZ
A Virtual server name is created....say ABC...both servers are defined to ABC definition.
Officials are checking/testing scriptZ on ServerA and don't even know there's a 'back door'.
A 'switch' process script is written and job created for it.
99% of the time the application batch is running on ServerA (primary)... The switch job/script is executed and now the ABC virtual name references ServerB and the script runs there instead....but the scriptZ on ServerB can have different programming that flips vote counts.
Anyone in IT, working with scheduling/running batch on distributed servers can understand how the originally intended ServerA/scriptZ has been compromised and is running on ServerB...could be miles away. Run that 'switch job' again and the files sent back, with flipped votes finishes up running on ServerA. Anyone even staring at the screen cannot see what happened 'behind the scene' that executed elsewhere and reverted back. You'd have to examine logs..follow url's.
triron
(21,984 posts)that is consistent to your proposal. Except author blames it on Republican 'vote rigging' . Except their 'vote rigging' this time went further.
http://www.cpegonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Unexplained-Patterns-in-2016-and-Earlier-U.S.-Elections.pdf
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)And suggesting that it is plays right into Trump's hands. He wants people to hate immigrants and one way to stimulate that is to suggest they are stealing elections. It also increases support for more voting barriers.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)More serious and verifiable problem.
I agree with the points you make. See my #17 post above about the Sanchez/Dornan election.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)I prefer to focus on the legally implemented barriers and the fact that they are using the claim to put up more of them. If we make the claim of fraud, why would we oppose more barriers?
I am already hearing it from liberals. If we maintain this position and it gains public traction the lie will have worked. Trump's mission accomplished.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)I prefer to focus on barriers and how they use their claim to put up more as well.
That is a huge part of how they manipulate elections, they prevent people from exercising their legal right to vote.
triron
(21,984 posts)Chalco
(1,307 posts)triron
(21,984 posts)The rest was subterfuge by elements of the FBI and Putin directed Russian hacking including electoral corruption on and possibly before election day.
IronLionZion
(45,380 posts)and reduce polling places even more. They don't like where the demographics in this country is going and they would like to keep their power.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Mc Mike
(9,111 posts)suffragette
(12,232 posts)So damn sick of it.
Mc Mike
(9,111 posts)Guess we'll have to work on shortening the leash of the junkyard dog that is the repug party, so they run out of chain as they charge toward their goal of dictatorship.
Good to see you, suff.
C_U_L8R
(44,992 posts)The BLOTUS has overstepped with delusional conspiracy bullshit
and yes there need to be a thorough investigation. Either the
world's greatest election crime has been committed (without a
result for Trump's supposed conspirators, mind you) OR....
Trump is absofuckinlutely crazyass nuts and unfit for office.
Let the proceedings begin!!
townie
(38 posts)if he wasn't already there. His ego is his albatross
Gothmog
(144,945 posts)Oldtimeralso
(1,935 posts)I think that the objective of this is a national registry for voters.
This, of course, leads to a national registration of all citizens.
Can you say "Show me your papers."?
suffragette
(12,232 posts)And they're trying to divert away from the allegations about Russian interference as well.
bighart
(1,565 posts)to distract from what he is doing.
triron
(21,984 posts)Vinca
(50,237 posts)Der Fuhrer's own statements. It seems if millions of people voted illegally, the election should be voided.
TheFrenchRazor
(2,116 posts)suffragette
(12,232 posts)Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)immigrants and dead people from voting.
red dog 1
(27,783 posts)See reply # 2 (and reply # 44)
Bear Creek
(883 posts)The network news outlets need to watch how they cover trump. They are helping the propaganda by how they word the head lines. Headline needs to be Trump Lies about voter fraud. Instead they had Trump says there was voter fraud. Most people dont read past the headline and when they see it a number of times will take it be gospel. They dont teach vetting and critical thinking anymore?
This must have been what got them stirred up at work. They were in a tizzy that if they have to pay for a drivers license that everyone can pay to be able to vote. And that ID needs to be on you at all times and should show it on demand. I guess they dont understand that driving is a privilege and voting is a right.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)And how some people get sucked right into it.
We need more civics education. Of course, with Trump that won't happen.
Ohioboy
(3,239 posts)He can't stand the fact that he didn't win the popular vote. It bugs him so much he needs his press secretary to bring up voter fraud as an explanation. It also bugs him that Obama's inauguration was attended by more people than his. Spicer needs to keep his fragile boss happy.
underpants
(182,632 posts)suffragette
(12,232 posts)Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)meadowlander
(4,388 posts)and see what Trump's excuse is for not supporting it.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)randr
(12,409 posts)TrekLuver
(2,573 posts)brought it up. No No...there is something seriously wrong with him. Even my Trashpot loving co worker is doing eye brow raising.
malaise
(268,724 posts)The election was stolen