Some posts lately make light of seniors and dementia (please stop)

[Omaha Steve]

Last edited Thu Jan 26, 2017, 09:05 AM - Edit history (2)

A few posts have popped up that link denial of Trump policies etc in seniors to being demented. That is ugly humor at best on a progressive board.

Most of you know I suffer from FTD. The most common dementia for people under the age of 60. I was diagnosed over three years ago.

Almost 2 years ago I became an open book about it on the DU. I have helped several with relatives or friends that had changes in behavior as they aged.

Clearly lots of Duers still don't know how dementia works. I have lost friends over my changes in attitude, behavior, etc. I'm not the DUer I was in 2004. My check up last week showed how my disease has progressed in 3 years time.

I just ask that the DU stop mentioning dementia unless you are specifically talking about it as a disease period.

Edit: Referring to Trump and dementia is fine with me. The OP that started this was not aimed at TRUMP!

OS

FTD info here: http://www.theaftd.org/

[lillypaddle]

1. K&R nt

[bananas]

2. k&r nt

[NCTraveler]

3. Many of Trumps public statements are completely disjointed.

Sentences strung together that don't form a conscious line of thought. He is clearly unstable and lashes out in anger.

We have a responsibility to highlight his clear mental issues. We do need to do so responsibly. Considering dementia is fair game and he is a senior. With his complete lack of transparency it is open for discussion. None of us want someone with clear mental issues in the WH. That includes you.

I am noticing a patter where a very few people say something and then it is followed up by a broad brush op. That is what I find to be completely unnecessary.

Trump is a senior. An age group most afflicted with dementia. He also shows possible early signs of dementia. Do I think he has dementia? No clue. Do I have an issue with responsible questioning of it? Not at all. And the more irresponsible comments are far and few between.

I'm very familiar with dementia. It makes forfeit sense as I highlighted above. It's fair speculation when addressed properly.

Additionally, demented has its own definition. It can be used to refer to dementia but in every day use it is more often not used to refer to dementia. The terms are not interchangeable as you seem to have made them out to be. I don't see how anyone wouldn't call him demented which more often than not has nothing to do with dementia.

[Omaha Steve]

5. The post was clearly about seniors in the general population

NOT TRUMP!

[NCTraveler]

6. Please highlight who you are calling out if that is the case.

I haven't seen a rash of du'rs taking part in such activity. Yet here is your call out.

[Omaha Steve]

7. Here it is

I simply do not understand why so many seniors are in such complete denial. It is like they are demented. They hate minorities so much they are blind.

[NCTraveler]

9. That's what you have?

Oh dear. Good job with the broad brush and lack of a link. This trend of call outs is becoming more transparent. You are calling out du members in a broad brush manner with little to nothing backing it up.

That is also a perfectly fine and non-offensive statement. Demented and dementia have their own meanings. Demented can and is often used to describe actions completely unrelated from dementia.

[Omaha Steve]

10. NCTraveler has given me permission to post a link

This is an answer to a question. Not a call out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028531402

NCTraveler might have more sensitivity IF NCTraveler had dementia!

[NCTraveler]

13. That is a strange response.

I don't have the authority here to give people permission for anything. Interesting you believe I have that power.

These broad brushes against du'rs are becoming very clear. And your last sentence is simply a poor debate tactic. A true falicious argument.

Your link fails to back up your claim as well. It's a perfectly acceptable use of the word demented. Really bad form to deceptively link someone who has done nothing wrong to your call out.

Your edit changed nothing with respect to your seriously flawed call out of du members. The op you link to is not offensive and demented was a completely accurate descriptor for them to use.

[Omaha Steve]

21. It was generic until YOU asked for a link

I tried very hard in the OP to avoid pointing out an individual. It used to be a hide for posting links of other OPs while being critical. YOU asked for specifics. Take credit for YOUR call out!

You have little understanding or empathy for dementia impaired DUers.

OS

[NCTraveler]

34. "You have little understanding or empathy for dementia impaired DUers."

You cannot possibly come to that conclusion from anything I have said. I'm truly sorry for your situation but the comment you just made what nothing but mean spirited and cannot be related to anything I said. It's just mean in nature.

"I tried very hard in the OP to avoid pointing out an individual."

There is nothing wrong at the call out link you provided. That is why you didn't want to put it out there. Please stop blaming me for your own actions. Completely your own actions. Said link doesn't back your call out of du'rs in your op. It was a perfectly acceptable use of the word demented.

"Take credit for YOUR call out!"

I have called no one out unless you take into consideration I take issue with your erroneous and broad brush swipe at du'rs. You literally put together a call out op, that is way off the mark, then blame me for calling someone out. There is simply no way to get there.

[Omaha Steve]

35. What about other DUers that feel the same way I do about the post in question?

I'm not the only DUer that feels this way about that post etc:

[NCTraveler]

36. Far and few between.

Still, you keep the conversation about duers. That is all this is about. You publicly calling out duers. At every step.

The duer you blatantly called out made no error. Their comment is perfectly acceptable.

You have erroneously broad brushed duers.

[Omaha Steve]

37. SecularMotion called the poster in question a troll

"The duer you blatantly called out made no error." Which is it? You two are miles apart.

TheMastersNemesis and I talked about the post in private and we have no problem with each other.

[NCTraveler]

38. You literally want to simply keep calling people out.

Do you know how many duers have called other duers trolls? Make your own arguments.

"TheMastersNemesis and I talked about the post in private and we have no problem with each other."

That is very nice to hear. Then you should delete your call out of them. Your erroneous call out. I'm done here. You are simply trying to make it about even more duers after you post a broad brush call out op.

[SecularMotion]

41. The fact that he trolled you so effectively proves my point.

[Omaha Steve]

64. Really? Few and far between?

I figured you couldn't explain this away after your biased blasts at me.

From last August. Both posts used please stop. Both posts didn't use a link or a name. This DUer went farther than I did and asked not to use dementia or alzheimer's when discussing Trump. 36 R's.

I wonder why this very similar post from before the election didn't bother you?

I called out no individual until YOU asked for quotes and links!

OS

[cwydro]

44. Your posts are concise and well reasoned.

I also don't quite understand the OP in this regard.

Nor do I consider "demented" and "dementia" to be synonymous.

[Omaha Steve]

49. See reply #14

The definition is in black & white.

[NCTraveler]

56. That's the way most of them are printed.

As you can see from the definition, it was an acceptable use of the word. Keep going if you want. It's now gotten to the point you are talking about how others have referred to the person you have called out as a troll, so you don't have to directly, while saying at the same time you have had a good conversation with them. One hundred percent what you have said here.

[stonecutter357]

14. that post is spot on steve .

de·ment·ed
[dəˈmen(t)əd]
ADJECTIVE

suffering from dementia.
informal
driven to behave irrationally due to anger, distress, or excitement:
"a demented, dangerous, and sadistic Mafioso"

[stonecutter357]

12. +1000

[stonecutter357]

4. trump is acting like he has dementia .

[dalton99a]

8. Well, Trump is elderly and vile with serious cognitive and mental issues.

[hamsterjill]

11. Then how do we talk about Trump's behavior without offending someone?

Serious question. Because it is blatantly obvious to anyone who has watched the campaign and now the utter meltdowns and tantrums by Trump since taking the oath that he has SOMETHING going on.

The majority of DU'ers aren't mental health experts. The majority of us are not medical doctors either. But when your child has a fever, you know something is wrong. In the same vein, when normal behavior is not exhibited by the President of the United States (over and over and over) you begin to see that something is wrong.

We must be able to discuss the obvious because we ignore it at our peril.

So, do I just say that Trump is coo coo, or how do I describe him so that no one or no group is offended?

Again, I'm being completely serious here. We have got to be able to discuss his actions and his actions are not those of a sane person.

[MountCleaners]

16. On the other hand...

....it could be that he's an outrageously wealthy person who never had to work his way up or answer to anyone in his life. He doesn't know what life is like for 99% of Americans.

That's the impression I got when listening to him speak.

[hamsterjill]

19. But when presented with facts, he can't process them.

I think his actions are not simply those of a spoiled, rich aristocrat. He enjoys inflicting pain on others and will not back down on anything even when the facts are staring him in the face.

[Bayard]

32. Sociopath

Per "Psychology Today": "The sociopath has an attention bottleneck that allows him to focus only on one activity or train of thought, to the exclusion of others."

General Characteristics:
Superficial charm and good intelligence
Absence of delusions and other signs of irrational thinking (ok, maybe not so much on that one)
Absence of nervousness or neurotic manifestations
Unreliability
Untruthfulness and insincerity
Lack of remorse and shame
Inadequately motivated antisocial behavior
Poor judgment and failure to learn by experience
Pathological egocentricity and incapacity for love
General poverty in major affective reactions
Specific loss of insight
Unresponsiveness in general interpersonal relations
Fantastic and uninviting behavior with alcohol and sometimes without
Suicide threats rarely carried out
Sex life impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated
Failure to follow any life plan

[loyalsister]

46. He proocesses them just fine

He is exploiting the uncomfortable truth that the popular vote was incongruent with the electoral vote. It makes people nervous and there is no way that he or at least his handlers don't know that crying fraud will increase voter insecurity. And, more and more people will support voting restrictions. Even better, Democrats are some of the most insecure of all and no longer reliable resistors. Because some have their own voter fraud claims.

[loyalsister]

47. Not being hypocritical to begin with

Trump's defense when he got caught making fun of the disabled man was that he uses motions that mock people with disabilities in other contexts to make fun of content not people. Either way it exploits the same biases.
What he is doing is intentional, and they are on tract with an "investigation" that will undoubtedly prove the need to weaken voting rights. That people on his staff are registered in more than one state "proves" how easy, and therefore rampant voter fraud is.
They will benefit while Democrats try to certify Trump has dimentia or some other cognitive disorder. They are counting on people who like the idea of being superior ro him because they don't have mental illness or intellectual dysfunction. I know it's satisfying, but this bigotted rabbit whole leads people to miss the big picture and agenda.

[get the red out]

15. I would never make fun

I have seen the devastation of dementia on a very personal level, but I do think it is ok to look at similarities between his behavior and dementia, where warranted, among other potential issues. The man's behavior is not at all normal, and when my Mother's behavior became very abnormal, we got her to medical specialists.

[DrDan]

17. K&R - ageism is not new here - bigotry that should be prohibited

[Vinca]

18. No one is treating this subject lightly. We honestly fear the POTUS is suffering from dementia.

I'm older than you are and have worked with Alzheimer's patients during my life and it's no joke. But just talking about it as it pertains to Trump does not mean anyone is taking the disease any less seriously. He also seems to suffer from a number of other personality disorders and that's not funny, either. Try not to read too much into things.

[hamsterjill]

20. +1

n/t

[JTFrog]

22. +1 nt

[hunter]

27. I saw Reagan in person at a semi-public event later in his second term.

He was a confused old man who clearly didn't know where he was or what the hell he was doing there. But for a moment his acting skills kicked in and he lit up and fired off a few sound bites. That's what was shown on television and reported in other media. The press otherwise ignored his alarming and obvious disability.

But I can still hate Reagan and his administration because they were so damned mean, because they treated AIDS as some kind of joke, and a million other things. Reagan's cruelty manifested itself long before his dementia.

I feel a similar way about Trump.

Since Reagan it's pretty clear the Republican Party favors presidential candidates who are easily manipulated; mere puppets.

That's what should frighten us. Who is pulling the strings? (No it's not Pence. He is a puppet too, otherwise he wouldn't have the job.)

[Freethinker65]

30. +1

I have mentioned dementia in a few posts, but never as a joke. I see many similarities in Trump's behavior similar to my father who lived quite well and aware of current happenings (though not always a joy to be around) for nearly ten years after a diagnosis of vascular dementia. His personality changes, night time wandering, unhealthy unusual (for him) obsessions, change in eating habits, and adherence to strict routines were even noticeable to himself (through reading his diaries/journals after his passing) years before his diagnosis. Unlike Trump however, my father knew something was wrong and sought help? He was "happy" to hear from an unskilled physician that he was merely suffering from depression, got an Rx, and hoped to return to his former self. Of course we found out several years later those warning signs were not depression but classic dementia. He continued to live his life to the fullest after the diagnosis, but knew he now had limits. I think that is what was most frustrating for him. He knew he would never be the same.

In Trump's early a.m. tweets, his obsession with crowd size and trivial matters, his need to be insulated by close family and trusted friends, his reported routine of television watching, his vanity when past his prime, and even some of his strange facial expressions and failure to laugh, I can see my dad.
Does Trump suffer from age related cognitive decline, Vascular dementia, TIAs, Alzheimer's, or is he merely a narcissistic vindictive bully? I really do not know.

[Bohunk68]

57. Thank you for sharing this with us. The most reasoned post so far on this thread.

I am looking at some of the same things your father looked at. I have realized lately, that things are not quite the same as just two years ago. I'm 73. My mother is 90, and her "problem" for lack of an exact term, is getting very disturbing. She is in a nursing home, because of her neuropathy, and my sister tells me that there are times when she visits, that mom does not know who she is. THIS, even though my sis and mom have lived either together in the same housing, or separate homes most of my sister's life. Other times, her brain works fine, like when I called her at Xmas. I am the eldest and as soon as she heard my voice, she knew who it was. Short term memory loss is the worst.

[etherealtruth]

23. You are right ... he is a narcissist, degenerate, and megalomaniac

His behavior is typical of narcissists and megalomaniacs. His issues are associated with deep personality issues/flaws ... not pathology (as with the medical diagnosis of a dementing illness).

[hunter]

24. Same with "Mental Illness."

Being a narcissistic asshole is not a mental illness.

Trump's problems are his lack of empathy, his mendacity, his racism, and his misogyny, to name a few.

Aside from a few people in his family and inner circle, aside from those who praise him, he considers all the rest of us losers.

[Greybnk48]

25. I think "deluded" is a more accurate word for Trump

and a person of any age can be deluded. He's definitely got something else going on with his irrational obsessiveness over certain things, but psychiatry is not my area.

[Trust Buster]

26. Dementia is not a joking matter to those afflicted with the disease or caregivers like myself who

are consumed by the disease.

[SecularMotion]

28. One troll makes a bad comment and you're ready to condemn DU members?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028531402


Go back to JPR. Stop lurking on DU with a chip on your shoulder.

[hunter]

39. No, it does happen here on DU.

I first signed onto the internet in 1979 and was probably among the earliest anonymous users so I've got a tremendously thick skin and don't easily take offense. (And I may even be offensive at times...) Still I recognize mental illness is greatly stigmatized in the U.S.A., and even here on DU sometimes.

I'm not going to be offended if somebody calls me crazy, I take some powerful meds to keep me somewhat functional, so yeah, I've got a mental illness. But the vast majority of mentally ill people are gentle sorts who don't deserve any possible comparison to rotten human beings like Trump.

There's no evidence that Trump has ever been anything other than the narcissist he is now. It's simply that as President he's more exposed. His tweets, for example, are national news. In his show-biz past they would have been DU Lounge material at best.

[SecularMotion]

40. I'm very uncomfortable with the "cleansing" of language on DU.

Too many people on DU have a chip on their shoulder looking to lash out at Democrats.

It's quite normal for people to describe the dangerous actions of an individual by using disease or mental illness as metaphor.

If you're not the target of the comment, you're reaching for a reason to be offended.

[hunter]

42. Why bother with the metaphor? Simply say Trump is an asshole, or something equally direct.

I've no fear of being called politically correct.

If somebody tells me they find my language offensive I'll change it. It's not up to me to decide if they ought to be offended or not.

When I mean to be offensive it's usually pretty obvious.

The English language evolves and it's not Orwellian doublespeak for the most part.

[SecularMotion]

43. Why bother with metaphor? Why bother with language?

Let's just boil it down to numerals so there is no confusion or hurt feelings.



I enjoy reading well-written metaphors, irony, and sarcasm. It's sad that so many people are blind to the nuances of language and can only read things literally. It's a symptom of the hostility towards intelligence that permeates our culture.

[hunter]

48. History is littered with dead metaphors.

New metaphors are being manufactured daily.

I love the English language but I don't let it hobble my thinking.

Bad metaphors can be ruts in the road our wheels are trapped in. (Fuck you, grammar Nazis!)

I've had the good fortune to occasionally exist for many days at a time without a single word of English passing through my head.

Sometimes it's been when I'm writing computer code, fill in the human language strings later.

Sometimes it's literally been wandering the desert. I used to do that often when I was an immortal young man.

I've also experienced life as an off-my-meds dumpster diving feral homeless person desiring nothing more than to be invisible to the rest of humanity.

Sometimes my mind is fully occupied with math and science. God save us all when I write one of these: ?

We all choose the languages we live by.

I'm never going to defend metaphors that deserve to die.

[Different Drummer]

52. "It's a symptom of the hostility towards intelligence that permeates our culture."

There is definitely a hostility towards intelligence these days.

[heaven05]

29. I hope

pray that people who make fun of others, including the boy-potus, end up suffering like those they deride. Period.

[LanternWaste]

31. Then maybe address that OP in that OP...?

"The OP that started this was not aimed at TRUMP!"

Then maybe address that OP in that OP...?

Or advertise your righteous concern as you are doing.

Either works, one more efficiently, though less self-serving.

[cwydro]

50. Ok, this is a record.

I've agreed with you twice in one day.

[Bayard]

33. I'm sorry Steve

And I kind of understand your pain. I'm bipolar, and that's a term also used inappropriately on a regular basis--particularly for people that are just plain crazy.

[Raine1967]

45. Hi Omaha Steve! I agree. AnaMArie Cox Shared these on Titter today, I stand with you and her.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[handmade34]

51. K&R

[doodsaq]

55. What is K&R?

Kidnap & Ransom?

[Jim Beard]

53. This is about Trump

I mentioned on another thread that I thought Trump was taking some type of medication because of his disillusions and during the debates. I am 1 month from 70 and know what happens in age, my dad died of Alzheimer.

During the debates, he looked like he was on some form of speed but all the medications of Alzheimer's medications I am aware of slow people down. Whatever, I feel he is self medicating and it is altering his already scrambled brain.

[SidDithers]

59. I hope you're equally critical of hurtful posts at that other board where you post...

I'm sure that's the case, right?

Does nobody else see the irony of a proud member of JPR telling DUers to be sensitive?

Sid

[Omaha Steve]

60. I had a couple posts out of over 1,000 on the 2 JPR sites critical of Hillary

Last edited Fri Jan 27, 2017, 11:00 AM - Edit history (2)

Both were JPR. The old site info was dumped (unlike DU1, 2, etc) and my post count went to 0.

How many posts critical of Bernie have you had on the DU?

I never saw a post on JPR broad brush attacking senior citizens that don't believe R's will take away Social Security was an automatic "they have dementia".

OS

[Omaha Steve]

61. Does anyone see the irony of giving a DUer a pass for the same type of post?

I didn't tell. I asked with a please just like another DUer did in an almost identical post. So you will be equally critical of a DUer? I'm sure that's the case, right?

With my dementia I can't remember. Is this a double standard or just an ulterior motive?

I voted for Hillary. Did you?

OS

[SidDithers]

62. That other poster doesn't post at the shithole known as JPR...

You do.

Because of that significant difference, that poster still has the credibility to express those opinions.

Sid

[Omaha Steve]

63. Why don't you ever talk about that alternate site for your friends?

Last edited Sat Jan 28, 2017, 12:57 PM - Edit history (1)

Where they make fun DUers like me for having dementia! Had a great time coordinating jury hides for certain DUers? Etc.

It is a shithole you don't mention. Another double standard.

OS