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Sun Feb 5, 2017, 02:57 PM

 

Anarchists who helped kill Occupy worry anti-Trump activists

http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Anarchists-who-helped-kill-Occupy-worry-10908947.php?cmpid=gatehp

As Kathy Lipscomb watched TV newscasts of “black bloc” anarchists smashing windows at a UC Berkeley protest, the former organizer of Occupy demonstrations was obsessed by two thoughts.

The first, she said, was: “Oh no, not again.” The second: “We can’t let them help ruin things this time.”

Those sentiments echoed across the Bay Area as leaders of the current wave of protests against President Trump took heed of Wednesday’s campus violence, Trump’s subsequent threat to cut funding to UC Berkeley, and what all that portends for their movement.

Their biggest fear is a repeat of what happened to Occupy earlier this decade, when black bloc violence chased away nonviolent, mainstream protesters — and helped lead to Occupy’s collapse about five years ago.


I think the rioting helped Milo Yiannopolous. His sales have soared on Amazon and he's becoming increasingly well-known. The fact that he has benefited so much from the actions of the balaclava-wearing rioters makes me wonder who was behind it.

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Reply Anarchists who helped kill Occupy worry anti-Trump activists (Original post)
EL34x4 Feb 2017 OP
guillaumeb Feb 2017 #1
2naSalit Feb 2017 #14
Lanius Feb 2017 #26
pinboy3niner Feb 2017 #29
guillaumeb Feb 2017 #33
demosincebirth Feb 2017 #52
blm Feb 2017 #2
bettyellen Feb 2017 #3
dhill926 Feb 2017 #5
tenderfoot Feb 2017 #7
HoneyBadger Feb 2017 #8
bettyellen Feb 2017 #13
HoneyBadger Feb 2017 #19
former9thward Feb 2017 #22
bettyellen Feb 2017 #25
Bucky Feb 2017 #42
tblue37 Feb 2017 #12
Hekate Feb 2017 #15
lostnfound Feb 2017 #34
oasis Feb 2017 #46
logosoco Feb 2017 #4
Hekate Feb 2017 #17
Pinna Feb 2017 #6
Starry Messenger Feb 2017 #9
EL34x4 Feb 2017 #48
Starry Messenger Feb 2017 #53
jmg257 Feb 2017 #11
Hekate Feb 2017 #18
former9thward Feb 2017 #23
Hekate Feb 2017 #36
former9thward Feb 2017 #44
Hekate Feb 2017 #47
LeftInTX Feb 2017 #10
EL34x4 Feb 2017 #16
Crunchy Frog Feb 2017 #21
former9thward Feb 2017 #24
Lee-Lee Feb 2017 #31
jmg257 Feb 2017 #32
Hekate Feb 2017 #40
Hekate Feb 2017 #20
Lee-Lee Feb 2017 #30
elehhhhna Feb 2017 #27
pinboy3niner Feb 2017 #37
bettyellen Feb 2017 #39
underpants Feb 2017 #28
bettyellen Feb 2017 #38
EL34x4 Feb 2017 #43
nikibatts Feb 2017 #35
Hekate Feb 2017 #41
HoneyBadger Feb 2017 #45
Equinox Moon Feb 2017 #49
EL34x4 Feb 2017 #50
Equinox Moon Feb 2017 #51

Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 03:02 PM

1. I remember COINTELPRO.

And I remember how the FBI planted people to discredit the Vietnam War protesters. It would not surprise me to learn that the FBI is/was behind this.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 04:33 PM

14. +1

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 05:18 PM

26. Or local law enforcement or right-wing extremist groups linked to the GOP

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Response to Lanius (Reply #26)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 05:25 PM

29. In L.A., it was Daryl Gates who ran LAPD's Intelligence Division. nt

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Response to Lanius (Reply #26)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 06:26 PM

33. Sometimes the two terms are interchangeable.

In Chicago, one former Police Officer named Jon Burge has cost the city millions in settlements regarding police torture. Burge was credibly linked to the KKK while he was a police officer.

Some of his victims are still in jail while Burge collects his pension.

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Response to Lanius (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 6, 2017, 03:04 PM

52. Either way it's a big problem for us.

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 03:02 PM

2. I worked with Dems during 2012 Convention in Charlotte and anarchists infiltrated our local Occupy

group (many of who I knew personally and could easily detect infiltrators) and harassed Labor Groups/Dem marchers during the annual Labor Day parade that coincided with the Convention.

Some claimed to Ron Paul supporters. I think they were racists and white nationalists stirring things up and noticed it coincided with Russia's rise in white nationalism thuggery, too.

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 03:09 PM

3. Marches should request no black masks - and surround groups of them w peace signs and people willing

 

To help watch and document them. They have to go.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 03:27 PM

5. good idea...

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 03:30 PM

7. Yes.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 03:42 PM

8. If you see someone in a black mask, you need to stop them by taking their mask

 

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Response to HoneyBadger (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 04:31 PM

13. I'd not promote assault, nor agree with you doing same. I'd let them know they are being watched and

 

Then watch them if they are forming a group- the. I'd point it out to others and make sure they knew they did not have marchers support for violence.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 04:44 PM

19. They want to be watched, they do not want their mask removed

 

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Response to HoneyBadger (Reply #19)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 04:57 PM

22. You are promoting assault.

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Response to HoneyBadger (Reply #19)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 05:15 PM

25. I'd say the moment they get violent, perhaps but preemptive assault? Nope.

 

I think the marchers need to be prepared and make removal of masks a requirement for participating- so that their disavowal of this group is notably firm.

Please stop advocating assault.

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Response to HoneyBadger (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 07:37 PM

42. Don't grab, but bring a fully charged phone and video them

and call them out and bring allies to stop their vandalism. They are out to deliberately destroy property in order to destroy the protest. And they want to destroy the protest so they can destroy democracy. They are as bad as Trump. They are the enemy of peaceful politics

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 04:20 PM

12. + a brazillion--and K&R for visibility.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 04:37 PM

15. Plus a bajillion. We absolutely have to learn how to protect ourselves & our message ....

....from infiltrators. Our side has to learn how to work a LOT smarter and give up naive thinking.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 06:38 PM

34. I agree and have been thinking pink hats are in order

For those surrounding them, to make the distinction clear, that the antiTrump activists don't consider them part of their own.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 6, 2017, 12:16 AM

46. No masks of any kind. nt

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 03:15 PM

4. This is a worry of mine, as well.

We saw it around St. Louis with the Ferguson protest.
It is really a cheap shot for Rump to lump them together.
I would like to think that people recording everything could show how these groups are separate and moving in on peaceful protests.

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Response to logosoco (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 04:39 PM

17. It's not "a cheap shot from Trump," it's pure propaganda against us.

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 03:30 PM

6. Here is an interview with someone claiming responsibility

For the "militant" action at Berkeley:

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Response to Pinna (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 03:50 PM

9. She's a Maoist. Ugh.

She's locally notorious. She runs for CFT president every convention. I doubt she was with the Berkeley antifa. They are a local group of youngsters, they will be hard to curb because they are very self-righteous.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 6, 2017, 11:29 AM

48. Didn't she say she was there?

 

I thought this was made clear at the beginning?

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Response to EL34x4 (Reply #48)

Mon Feb 6, 2017, 04:38 PM

53. Lots of people were there.

A small group were the ones lighting things on fire.

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Response to Pinna (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 04:20 PM

11. This can't be right - the Berkley professor said they were RW infiltrators.

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 04:43 PM

18. Reich said the violent young men in black that he saw were "paramilitary, not students."

This is a major distinction, which we've already hashed out here. If the girl Maoist wants to make common cause with them, on her head be it. She, however, would have stuck out like a sore thumb among them due to her gender and (probable) height, had she actually participated in violence that night.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 04:59 PM

23. Reich knows all 38,000 students?

Impressive...

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Response to former9thward (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 06:47 PM

36. Well, as I said before, "paramilitary" is not a fashion statement; it's a mode of training....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8592591

Paramilitary" is not a fashion statement. It's a mode of training that affects how you walk...

...how you move with your cohort, how you coordinate your activities within your group to achieve maximum violent effect. That takes practice practice practice. You get muscles.

Back in the mid-1960s some of my classmates used to play Spot the Narc. It wasn't that hard. There was something about the combination of love beads, fringed jacket, close haircut, and shiny shoes that was a tipoff. My boyfriend used to play Spot the FBI agent. He said it was the bulge under the armpit that gave him a clue.

What about these so called "Millenials" makes them stand apart from the crowd? I only saw a short clip of them rushing into the peaceful noisy protest. They took immediate coordinated violent action. I immediately said to my husband: "They're not ours. Who the hell are they working for?"

If they had really been "students" I would have expected to see their mugshots plastered all over the news, after seeing them cuffed and slapped around. Instead, nada.

Reich is not stupid. He saw the same thing close up and he has the guts and stature to speak out.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 11:22 PM

44. Mugshots?

There was only one arrest. Berkeley is full of anarchists. Some students, some not. No, this was not some FBI CT plan.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #44)

Mon Feb 6, 2017, 12:59 AM

47. Didn't say it was FBI, did I? Take your pick: Erik Prince, Steve Bannon, any number of American....

....white nationalist groups.

Trump always supplemented his SS staff with hired security that were retired agents or did their best to look like it. Where did he hire them from? Are they still around, or did the real SS kick them out?

So he's accustomed to hired professionals of that ilk. I have a feeling he doesn't trouble himself with the minutia of each protest, but if he were drop a word into Bannon's grubby ear, I'm sure these matters could be arranged. Special task force and all that.

These men have some sketchy friends, after all.

I didn't used to be so cynical.

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 04:10 PM

10. Why didn't they show up at Tea Party rallies?

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 04:38 PM

16. Curious, indeed.

 

Also convenient there were no arrests and as such, no identities verified. Having some names attached to their hidden faces would at least give us an idea who was behind this.

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Response to EL34x4 (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 04:55 PM

21. Could legit protesters make citizens arrests?

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 05:03 PM

24. No.

An urban legend if there ever was one.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 05:59 PM

31. That varies by state

 

Some states yes, some no, and in every state where you can what can and can not be arrested for will vary and what actions you can take to effect the arrest will vary.

In NC the answer is a solid no. NC is one of the most restrictive states on this, in fact in NC a police officer can't even make an arrest outside the jurisdiction of employment, in most states LEOs have arrest powers for at least felonies statewide.

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Response to EL34x4 (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 06:24 PM

32. Campus police in this case? Or local PD? Both?

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 07:12 PM

40. Would be interesting to know who whisked them away, wouldn't it?

Cynically,
Hekate

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 04:44 PM

20. That's the right question to start with

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 05:57 PM

30. They probably don't go anywhere they expect people will fight back

 

Probably a far greater chance of the tea party attendees being armed.

Let's face it, progressive protests are known to be largely unarmed and made up of people who largely object to people being armed and object to violence even in self defense, while tea party rallies are not.

They know the police have restrictions and limits on how they respond, and will push them right to the limit. The idea that participants in a rally may be armed is a different ballgame and they don't know for sure how they may react.

That is why I and some others on here keep advocating that we not cede the right to bear arms exclusively to the right and that more progressives not only exercise their right but make it known.

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 05:20 PM

27. Surround, Film, and Follow. Perhaps some veterans would like to help cover them.

 


Mexican students do this at marches and it's pretty effective.

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Response to elehhhhna (Reply #27)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 06:53 PM

37. Occupiers used these tactics, too

Isolate them, but follow, record, and bring them to the attention of police.

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Response to elehhhhna (Reply #27)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 06:56 PM

39. Smart!

 

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 05:21 PM

28. I'm fascinated by who these Black Bloc people are

There is no reporting that I can find on them.

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Response to underpants (Reply #28)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 06:56 PM

38. I think there are agitators to get young angry people to join them and whip them into a frenzy...

 

It seems to be the same thing we see going on with the Wiki leaks anti-Dem crap, you have paid or vested people going in trying to present themselves as a bit more lefty and they pick up well meaning people who aren't questioning enough, they push the boundaries and form a little army of supporters who were well meaning and get caught up in it.

Look at what the JPR people did here- hunting down long time members, particularly POC and feminists and getting them banned. I'd say 4/5 of those people were well intentioned but for some reason they hung onto the words of one or two people like gospel and pushed the boundaries here further and further till it was obvious to everyone their leaders were paid trolls.

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Response to underpants (Reply #28)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 08:40 PM

43. I ran across a pro-Trump blog that doxxed

 

on of the "Black Bloc" guys arrested (actually, I think the only guy arrested) as an employee of the school.

I'm not going to post a link but it's not too hard to find.

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 06:43 PM

35. Just expose them on every hand. And get out in front of them. Make statements of peaceful protest

 

and disavow anarchist violence and destructions before every protest march. Let the media know upfront and insist on enough law enforcement to keep them away without bothering the peaceful protestors.

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Response to nikibatts (Reply #35)

Sun Feb 5, 2017, 07:22 PM

41. Good start. Would love to see solid training done as well, just as MLK did for his marchers. nt

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Response to EL34x4 (Original post)

Mon Feb 6, 2017, 11:32 AM

49. Maybe our Vets can help with security at protests?

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Response to Equinox Moon (Reply #49)

Mon Feb 6, 2017, 11:38 AM

50. Maybe we shouldn't help Milo sell books and fill seats...

 

...by protesting his speaking events? All we're doing is feeding him attention.

Imagine a Milo Yiannopolous with nobody outside holding signs. The first thing that will cross his mind is, "Didn't someone tell them I was coming? Don't they know who I am?"

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Response to EL34x4 (Reply #50)

Mon Feb 6, 2017, 11:41 AM

51. Okay. I get it.

I didn't fully read the post. The part I read was about Occupy being infiltrated by anarchists. I was thinking our Vets could help be part of our future protests.

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