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kpete

(71,898 posts)
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 07:18 PM Jun 2012

... House Progressives Will Seek Single-Payer Plan If Mandate Goes Down.

WASHINGTON -- The last thing House progressives want is for the Supreme Court to strike down President Barack Obama's health care law. But if the high court rules Thursday that some or all of the law is unconstitutional, progressives are ready to renew their push for the model of health care they wanted all along: the single-payer option.

"It's easy to see it's a good idea," Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.), co-chairman of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, told The Huffington Post. "It's the cheapest way to cover everybody."

Ellison said all 75 members of the caucus have already signed onto a bill by Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.) to create a single-payer, publicly financed, privately delivered universal health care program. The proposal would essentially build on and expand Medicare, under which all Americans would be guaranteed access to health care regardless of an ability to pay or pre-existing health conditions.

House progressives pushed hard for a single-payer option, such as the "Medicare for all" approach, during the health care reform debate in 2009. But House Democratic leaders couldn't come up with the votes to pass the proposal, and progressives ultimately caved on the idea in order to pass the president's plan, on the reasoning that some reform was better than none at all.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/27/house-progressives-single-payer-health-care_n_1630777.html

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... House Progressives Will Seek Single-Payer Plan If Mandate Goes Down. (Original Post) kpete Jun 2012 OP
Conyers and Ellison!!! Again! longship Jun 2012 #1
And sadly, Max Baucus will be right there in the Senate BumRushDaShow Jun 2012 #2
Given that Bernie Sanders says that there were only 10 or so Senators who would vote for it, karynnj Jun 2012 #24
And there's no reason not to try Scootaloo Jun 2012 #26
As if it could pass even with Baucus. You need 60 votes. So please, enough of that. RBInMaine Jun 2012 #31
The Republicans don't need 60 votes for their bills. So please, enough of that. Leopolds Ghost Jun 2012 #34
Du rec. Nt xchrom Jun 2012 #3
I'd prefer if they said they would seek single payer regardless of the SC's decision. nt chowder66 Jun 2012 #4
^^ This! LeftofObama Jun 2012 #5
tanks! chowder66 Jun 2012 #10
It's about "gnikcuf" time! KansDem Jun 2012 #6
Yes indeed! Plucketeer Jun 2012 #20
k&r a thousand times!!!!! robinlynne Jun 2012 #7
Exercise in futility. DCBob Jun 2012 #8
Ah the Pessimism packaged as Pragmatism wail! Bluenorthwest Jun 2012 #36
Spare me the lecture. I'm simply suggesting we focus our effort on something thats doable. DCBob Jun 2012 #40
And every other elected (bought) Democrat will ignore them. MrSlayer Jun 2012 #9
Exactly - one corporate party, two faces. polichick Jun 2012 #17
Um, the REPUBLICANS control the House. Maybe, uh, try bashing them instead. (???) RBInMaine Jun 2012 #30
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jun 2012 #11
I suspected this might happen, because I believed the ACA to be a sort of planned failure. kestrel91316 Jun 2012 #12
Can you really see it passing either House? karynnj Jun 2012 #25
Take a look at some polling. A good majority supports Medicare for All Bluenorthwest Jun 2012 #37
I've looked at polling, but the relevant group to poll here consists of the members of Congress karynnj Jun 2012 #42
Why seek single payer if Mandate goes down? What a clunky bunch! midnight Jun 2012 #13
If you wish him support, then support him. Calling him clunky is not support. It is unfounded Bluenorthwest Jun 2012 #38
Hurray! mckara Jun 2012 #14
Dennis Kucinich was right! TransitJohn Jun 2012 #15
All the more evidence that the mandate will stand, IMO demwing Jun 2012 #16
I doubt that will pass sakabatou Jun 2012 #18
And if it is upheld, they should push for single-payer anyway, state by state under the opt out. SunSeeker Jun 2012 #19
There isnt enough of them. It will never happen. scheming daemons Jun 2012 #21
Are these the same House Progressive who said they wouldn't vote for a bill that didn't include a Puregonzo1188 Jun 2012 #22
K&R MustBeTheBooz Jun 2012 #23
Would Like Single Payer, But This Court Would Knock It Down Too TomCADem Jun 2012 #27
Only Way This Has Legs... KharmaTrain Jun 2012 #28
And it will be an act of futility because a snowball in hell has a better chance of PASSING. However RBInMaine Jun 2012 #29
I'd rather lose doing it right, than win doing it wrong louis c Jun 2012 #32
Lame posturing. Laelth Jun 2012 #33
Agreed, sadly. n/t Leopolds Ghost Jun 2012 #35
Where was their balls when they needed them? Hubert Flottz Jun 2012 #39
Wait...WHO? will be seeking Single-Payer? Not House *leadership*... nt Romulox Jun 2012 #41

longship

(40,416 posts)
1. Conyers and Ellison!!! Again!
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 07:29 PM
Jun 2012

I am a very proud native Detroiter, Cooley High class of 1966 -- yes, in the actual city limits.

Ellison is a Moslem. Conyers, one of the longest serving Democrats. Both make me proud to be a Democrat.

BumRushDaShow

(127,271 posts)
2. And sadly, Max Baucus will be right there in the Senate
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 07:30 PM
Jun 2012

to torpedo it again like he did the last time.

karynnj

(59,474 posts)
24. Given that Bernie Sanders says that there were only 10 or so Senators who would vote for it,
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 02:21 AM
Jun 2012

the problem is NOT that "Baucus torpedoed it. Baucus was a key person charged with getting a bill that could pass the Senate. That meant ultimately getting a bill that EVERY Democrat would vote for. He needed 60 votes - and there were JUST 4 months when there were 60 Democrats in the Senate. (Due to it taking a long time to get Franken in and then getting a replacement for Kennedy. )

There is no reason to think that single payer has any chance of passing.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
26. And there's no reason not to try
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 02:48 AM
Jun 2012

If it fails, we don't actually lose anything; though we do get to use that loss to tar every single bastard and motherfucker who shot it down.
If it passes, well... as Andrés Cantor would say, "GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLL!"

Leopolds Ghost

(12,875 posts)
34. The Republicans don't need 60 votes for their bills. So please, enough of that.
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 07:37 AM
Jun 2012

Also, I've heard enough about this nonsense about how every progressive in America is praying for the mandate,

aka the Gingrich health plan circa 2000.

chowder66

(9,010 posts)
10. tanks!
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 08:05 PM
Jun 2012

I remember a senator saying she was going to continue to fight for single payer...now who was that??

I can't even remember now. I'm happy that we have the AFA but yes, it can be better. They just need to keep revising it.

AFA 1.0
AFA 2.0
AFA 2.5


until we have the latest and greatest. National Healthcare for all!!!



 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
20. Yes indeed!
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 10:43 PM
Jun 2012

An OPTION, America. And if you should opt NOT to use it, please - consult with Mr. Rmoney as to what insurance provider he uses!

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
36. Ah the Pessimism packaged as Pragmatism wail!
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 08:56 AM
Jun 2012

The utter fear of any set back seems is the end all for some. I wonder what they'd do in a war, refuse to fight to win if any single battle might be lost?
Resistance is futile! You will be assimilated, moderately, near the center.....
I wonder if there is a single historical example of any great accomplishment of any kind that was not met with huge resistance that simply had to be faced? Are there any societal or even individual examples of actual greatness that came to be without any objection from rivals, without opponents flinging rhetorical absolutes, without the status quo claiming to be not just the way things are, but they way things must be? Are there any heroes in history who looked at a diffiuclut goal and said 'we must wait to try until victory is both effortless and assured'? Or did they just go forward as if all good things are worth some work, perhaps even worth a failure before the success. Did Gandhi drop his work when the British showed some will to resist? 'Oh, this is futile' he said, which is why he is called The Mahatma, he knew when to pack it in and accept preordained defeat....

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
40. Spare me the lecture. I'm simply suggesting we focus our effort on something thats doable.
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 10:07 AM
Jun 2012

There are many other legislative approaches to making our healthcare system better. Going for single-payer now is absurd given the makeup of congress. Spending time and effort on that will take away from time and effort on something that is more realistic.

 

MrSlayer

(22,143 posts)
9. And every other elected (bought) Democrat will ignore them.
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 07:49 PM
Jun 2012

Obviously single payer is the best thing to do, which it why it stands zero chance of going anywhere. The whores will never pass it. Not in a million years.

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
12. I suspected this might happen, because I believed the ACA to be a sort of planned failure.
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 08:14 PM
Jun 2012

People are more ready for Single Payer than they were a few years ago. If ACA is tossed and millions get screwed, they will be SCREAMING for Single Payer.

karynnj

(59,474 posts)
25. Can you really see it passing either House?
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 02:26 AM
Jun 2012

At the moment, no health care bill could pass the House - they passed the Ryan budget that would have cut both Medicare and Medicaid - that's the opposite direction.

In the Senate, name the 7 Republicans who would vote with all the Democrats (including Nelson!).

If you mean next year, it is unlikely that we will even have 53 Democrats - and we could have Majority leader McConnell. It may be that the people you know are more ready for single payer, but what about all the conservative true believers?

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
37. Take a look at some polling. A good majority supports Medicare for All
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 09:13 AM
Jun 2012

Can you show me any polling in which these 'true believers' of yours show numbers of any meaningful kind? Because simply stating that you think they are out there thinking what you say they think does not cut it.
And frankly, I am as skeptical of those who predict the future with certainty as I am with those who demand that others engage in prognostication to make their points. Let's take this absurd contempt vote against Holder. Yesterday, news reported that as many as 30 Democrats would vote for it. Later in the day it looked like maybe 5 Conservative Democrats. When the vote actually happens, what do you think? Tell me who will vote how. 30? 5? None? Do you think it is possible that yesterday morning that 30 count was possible and the reaction from the nation during the day may have cut down on that number? I do.
http://www.medicareforall.org/pages/Chart_of_Americans_Support

karynnj

(59,474 posts)
42. I've looked at polling, but the relevant group to poll here consists of the members of Congress
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 05:16 PM
Jun 2012

Look at the Senate. There are not enough Republican seats up to get to 60 Democrats and there is absolutely no chance that even one Republican will vote for that. (In fact, we can not count on every Democrat - as you know.)

I agree that LONG TERM the public could make it a voting issue - but that will not happen this year. Also remember only a third of the Senate is up every year. It takes a long time to change the positions by changing the people.

Here is how I think we get to single payer. The states can get waivers to do what they want and Vermont already wants single payer. Assume that they get this -- and as predicted, their healthcare coverage stays the same or improves and the costs are reduced (or even increased far less than others.) This will lead other states to follow - starting with progressive neighboring states. It is hard to argue against success.

midnight

(26,624 posts)
13. Why seek single payer if Mandate goes down? What a clunky bunch!
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 09:01 PM
Jun 2012

P.S. Much support and thanks for Mr. Conyers I just wish he could get more support...

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
38. If you wish him support, then support him. Calling him clunky is not support. It is unfounded
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 09:16 AM
Jun 2012

criticism of him for doing something principled.

TransitJohn

(6,932 posts)
15. Dennis Kucinich was right!
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 09:26 PM
Jun 2012

And he had been trying to get a Medicare for All bill to the floor forever.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
16. All the more evidence that the mandate will stand, IMO
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 09:45 PM
Jun 2012

it's all too easy to promise "If X then Y" when you know X ain't gonna fly

SunSeeker

(51,367 posts)
19. And if it is upheld, they should push for single-payer anyway, state by state under the opt out.
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 10:24 PM
Jun 2012

Let's continue what Vermont started, regardless of what happens tomorrow.

Puregonzo1188

(1,948 posts)
22. Are these the same House Progressive who said they wouldn't vote for a bill that didn't include a
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 12:48 AM
Jun 2012

public option?


If so, I'll hold my breath.

TomCADem

(17,378 posts)
27. Would Like Single Payer, But This Court Would Knock It Down Too
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 03:03 AM
Jun 2012

Heck, look at how some of the Republican appointees flipped out in the Arizona case on State soverignty grounds. I can only imagine how this Court would react to single payer.

KharmaTrain

(31,706 posts)
28. Only Way This Has Legs...
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 03:57 AM
Jun 2012

First...elect about 50 more Democrats to the House and retake the majority. Second...elect 10 more Progressive/Liberal Democratic Senators. A TALL order even in the best of times...but doable if Americans and Democrats truly want a reformed system. Unfortunately this means going up against every powerful lobby group around (just like last time...and loaded with Citizens United money).

The real problem is if Democrats lose seats in November...that will seal any healthcare reform for another generation or longer. It'll once again become a third rail that mostly Democrats will not want to touch.

 

RBInMaine

(13,570 posts)
29. And it will be an act of futility because a snowball in hell has a better chance of PASSING. However
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 05:07 AM
Jun 2012

I wish it could pass. But it won't. Too bad.

 

louis c

(8,652 posts)
32. I'd rather lose doing it right, than win doing it wrong
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:05 AM
Jun 2012

We should have pushed the single payer option all along.

Without that provision, we don't have the law we need.

Remember, the individual mandate was originally a Republican idea, produced by the ultra-Conservative Heritage Foundation, founded by Speaker Gingrich. The individual mandate is the centerpiece of the Romney care law here in Massachusetts and was insisted on by Gov. Romney during discussions with the State Legislature.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
33. Lame posturing.
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 07:03 AM
Jun 2012

The Progressive Caucus promised that they would not vote for the Health Insurance Company Enrichment Act unless it contained a "robust" public option. I made several calls and sent several letters urging them to keep that promise. They caved to pressure from the White House and from Speaker Pelosi and voted for the ACA despite the fact that there was no public option, much less a robust one.

Now, I don't believe a word they say, and even I can see that there's no way to pass single-payer in the current political climate. This kind of posturing sickens me. If the Democratic Party wants me to believe it actually intends to advance liberal interests, then it is going to have to do better than this (and much better than the Health Insurance Company Enrichment Act).

-Laelth

Hubert Flottz

(37,726 posts)
39. Where was their balls when they needed them?
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 09:20 AM
Jun 2012

They were is search of bipartisanship with the political terrorists across the isle. They might as well have gone unicorn wrangling.

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