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Sun Feb 26, 2017, 11:21 AM

 

I have to disagree with Fran Lebowitz

Just watched this week's Real Time and really have to disagree with something said by Fran Lebowitz. She said that it's OK to give idiots a platform because it exposes their idiocy. She is wrong. It shows that she lives in a bubble and only knows other people who think like her. But everyone doesn't think like her. I do as many here on DU do. But many don't.

After she said it I'm glad Seth MacFarlane said 'that hasn't been working'.

In reality, by giving idiots, bullies, hate-mongers, etc. a platform you are only emboldening other idiots, bullies and hate-mongers. It legitimizes them. I think we all saw this over the last two years with Trump's campaign. Back in the 70s, Norman Lear was surprised to learn that many conservatives loved All in the Family. Why? Because they thought that Archie made a lot of sense. They didn't see the show as Lear wrote it, a satire on the stupidity of bigots and the right. But rather as a validation of the those views that they held. Archie their hero who slapped down the views of his liberal son in law week after week.

I believe in the 1st Amendment and don't believe in censorship. But these is no right to be on TV. And those that spew the most vile and disgusting views have no right to that platform.

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Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply I have to disagree with Fran Lebowitz (Original post)
Trumpocalypse Feb 2017 OP
ksoze Feb 2017 #1
obnoxiousdrunk Feb 2017 #2
Salviati Feb 2017 #4
Orrex Feb 2017 #22
Trumpocalypse Feb 2017 #5
avebury Feb 2017 #20
logosoco Feb 2017 #3
Trumpocalypse Feb 2017 #6
logosoco Feb 2017 #8
pnwmom Feb 2017 #7
PoliticAverse Feb 2017 #9
erpowers Feb 2017 #10
itcfish Feb 2017 #11
BannonsLiver Feb 2017 #30
itcfish Mar 2017 #40
mountain grammy Feb 2017 #12
flamingdem Feb 2017 #13
NCTraveler Feb 2017 #14
Trumpocalypse Feb 2017 #16
NCTraveler Feb 2017 #19
Trumpocalypse Feb 2017 #23
SDJay Feb 2017 #15
MountCleaners Feb 2017 #17
Trumpocalypse Feb 2017 #18
oberliner Feb 2017 #21
Trumpocalypse Feb 2017 #24
oberliner Feb 2017 #27
Trumpocalypse Feb 2017 #28
oberliner Feb 2017 #32
Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #33
Vinca Feb 2017 #25
Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #35
HopeAgain Feb 2017 #26
Trumpocalypse Feb 2017 #29
BannonsLiver Feb 2017 #31
Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #34
Cosmocat Mar 2017 #36
Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #37
Cosmocat Mar 2017 #39
betsuni Mar 2017 #38
Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #41

Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun Feb 26, 2017, 11:24 AM

1. Your last paragraph is a contradiction

You have a right not to watch a tv channel. Use it, but do not attempt to censor for all.

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Response to ksoze (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 26, 2017, 11:31 AM

2. + 1 ..n/t

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Response to ksoze (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 26, 2017, 11:34 AM

4. No it's not.

https://xkcd.com/1357/


Your right to free speech does not give you a right to any platform you would want.

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Response to Salviati (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 28, 2017, 08:20 AM

22. I was accused of exactly that just yesterday

Imagine my surprise to learn that I am the federal government. Little ol' me!

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Response to ksoze (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 26, 2017, 11:35 AM

5. No one has the right to be on a TV show. That's not a contradiction.

 

And for the record I didn't and refuse to watch last week's Real Time because a certain vile person was given that platform.

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Response to ksoze (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 28, 2017, 07:55 AM

20. The Constitutional right of Free Speech only means

that you have the right to say what you want to say (with some reasonable controls - for example you can't yell fire in a crowded room). It does not automatically grant you to access to all forms of communication. Newspapers/magazines doe not have to interview a person. TV shows do not have to have the person on a show. Publishers don't have to publish a book. Radio talk shows don't have to have a person on. The choice of private entities is countered with the internet which makes numerous social media websites (Facebook, Twitter, etc), chat sites (like DU), youtube and who knows how many other websites available for people who want to say what is on their minds.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun Feb 26, 2017, 11:33 AM

3. Platforms, such as what Limbaugh and O'Rielly have been using,

where there is no time spent for counter arguments...that is a problem. Broadcast television used to be much better about allowing time for that. (I think it used to be a law that they had to provide time for counter view points that Reagan gutted).
But on a panel show where others can question them, I think it is very important.

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Response to logosoco (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 26, 2017, 11:37 AM

6. There use to be the Fairness Docterine and Equal Time Rule

 

but Reagan got rid of them. I wonder why? LOL

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 26, 2017, 11:40 AM

8. That's the one! Such a nice sounding name I should be able to remember it

and why would anyone want to get rid of something like that!!??!!

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun Feb 26, 2017, 11:39 AM

7. Agreed. Anyone can have a platform, on youtube or standing in the parking lot

at Walmart.

But TV and traditional publishers only have a limited number of spots they can give, and there should are some vetting of who gets those limited spots.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun Feb 26, 2017, 01:27 PM

9. Was Hitler an idiot? Would Lebowitz have given him a platform?


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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Mon Feb 27, 2017, 11:12 AM

10. They Have To Be Negated

You cannot just let Donald Trump and Milo Yiannoplous get on stage and say stupid things and expect people to realize those things are stupid. You have to negate them when they say stupid things. Milo Yiannoplous' stupidity was exposed on Real Time even without Bill Maher conducting a hard hitting interview. Imagine what would have could have happened if a serious and smart liberal had debated Yiannoplous. He could have been further exposed. I think when a stupid person is given a platform, but there is someone there to negate them their stupidity is exposed.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Mon Feb 27, 2017, 11:28 AM

11. Sorry I found the author

Muslim/Indian lady offensive. Making excuses for trump and badmouthing liberals. Seth did a good job trying to correct her ignorant statements.

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Response to itcfish (Reply #11)

Tue Feb 28, 2017, 09:21 PM

30. I found her even more repugnant than Milo in many ways

But I don't see anyone here whining about Bill having her on.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #30)

Wed Mar 1, 2017, 11:35 AM

40. Me Too

n/t

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Mon Feb 27, 2017, 11:47 AM

12. What Seth said!

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Mon Feb 27, 2017, 11:57 AM

13. Sadly our media is 50% and until that changes the Conways of the world

will get a chance to spew, even if they do ultimately get pushed out they get to do their damage.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Mon Feb 27, 2017, 11:58 AM

14. Your first paragraph completely contradicts itself. nt.

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 27, 2017, 08:10 PM

16. How so?

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #16)

Tue Feb 28, 2017, 07:48 AM

19. She lives in a bubble. She wants to give others a voice.

 

Those can both be found in the first paragraph.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 28, 2017, 08:26 AM

23. Not a contradiction at all

 

She does live in a bubble and thinks that everyone will react as she does by giving hate-mongers a platform. As Seth pointed out, that hasn't been working. Why? Because outside of her bubble some people think differently.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Mon Feb 27, 2017, 12:20 PM

15. Then For-Profit Media

needs to go, which we obviously know it won't. Once the Fairness Doctrine got shitcanned and for-profit, shares-driven companies starting owning the dissemination of our information, everyone got a platform. Or should I say, everyone who spewed Siren Songs to the chosen demographics of the TV shows, radio shows, etc.

Providing actual, objective and accurate information became an afterthought. Walter Cronkite would be off the air within months now because he'd be too 'boring' and 'bland' for the no attention span viewership.

The point is that idiots are always going to have a platform as long as those providing it have a profit motive.

As a first amendment person, I think idiots should have the same opportunity to step onto a platform as everyone else. I will continue to exercise my right not to listen to them. That's the best we can do in this system unless we want to take steps onto what I consider a very slippery slope.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Mon Feb 27, 2017, 08:37 PM

17. OK, but...

There are probably a lot of people out there who voted for Trump who could turn against him, especially if he and his administration are overexposed. Ridicule can do wonders for our side. I mean, they're that ridiculous.

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Response to MountCleaners (Reply #17)

Tue Feb 28, 2017, 07:39 AM

18. Maybe some

 

But all the free media that Trump got only helped him.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Tue Feb 28, 2017, 08:14 AM

21. Are you saying that only people who share your view should be on TV?

 

Or what?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #21)

Tue Feb 28, 2017, 08:27 AM

24. Not at all

 

But you don't give a platform to hate-mongers. That only legitimizes them.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #24)

Tue Feb 28, 2017, 10:22 AM

27. Understood

 

But right-wingers would say Rachel Maddow is a hate-monger.

I guess the question is, who decides who is a hate monger and who isn't?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #27)

Tue Feb 28, 2017, 08:37 PM

28. I would think it is pretty obvious to most.

 

And I've never seen anyone on the right call Maddow a hate-monger so please don't indulge in intellectually dishonest straw man arguments.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #28)

Tue Feb 28, 2017, 09:25 PM

32. You would be wrong

 

That is part of the problem of only speaking with people who see the world the way you do. You forget (or pretend not to know) that others see things very differently.

Rush Limbaugh, for instance, accuses Rachel Maddow of being a hate-monger every single time he mentions her. In fact, he has called the entire MSNBC network a bunch of racists. And his show is enormously popular (much more popular than Rachel's show).

Maybe get your head out of the sand and realize what sort of stuff is being said on the right (and Limbaugh is relatively mainstream right - try Breitbart).

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Response to oberliner (Reply #32)

Wed Mar 1, 2017, 07:26 AM

33. And you still think

 

that giving extremists a platform is still a good idea. That has worked out well.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Tue Feb 28, 2017, 08:35 AM

25. I agree with her. If you don't give an idiot the stage, no one will know they're an idiot.

Last edited Wed Mar 1, 2017, 08:10 AM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Vinca (Reply #25)

Wed Mar 1, 2017, 07:33 AM

35. Except for other idiots.

 

And that really worked well in the last election.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Tue Feb 28, 2017, 09:04 AM

26. Short Term v. Long Term

Lebowitz is correct, understanding that it works on a long arc. Hitler was a stark example of the short term horror that effective propaganda can wrought. But over the long term, lies are exposed, false beliefs and rejected and we move along the slow path to an advancing society.

Sure, I would love to control the message put out there, word by word, to make sure that it fits my deep and unerring view of what should be said, but the rest of the world doesn't seem to recognize my perfect views.

Free speech is a dangerous, but necessary thing.

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Response to HopeAgain (Reply #26)

Tue Feb 28, 2017, 08:38 PM

29. Not saying to curtail free speach

 

But no one has the right to be on a TV show.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #29)

Tue Feb 28, 2017, 09:22 PM

31. True, but one can always turn the channel

That's the beauty of modern entertainment.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #31)

Wed Mar 1, 2017, 07:30 AM

34. It's those that don't turn the channel

 

that are the concern. Those that have their extremist views validated and legitimized. Would you give Hitler a platform on National TV or the KKK?? You only have to look at recent incidents of anti-sematic and other racist attacks to see how na´ve that attitude is.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Wed Mar 1, 2017, 08:07 AM

36. This country is FAR past that point

This isn't a little cold you can just take some vitamin C and go about your business.

This country has stage 4 cancer, nothing short of full chemo/radiation can possibly pull us back.

And, this dimwit is full of shit.

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Response to Cosmocat (Reply #36)

Wed Mar 1, 2017, 08:31 AM

37. I am???

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #37)

Wed Mar 1, 2017, 09:44 AM

39. I'm sorry

that dimwit on Maher's show Friday night.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Wed Mar 1, 2017, 08:40 AM

38. Fran Lebowitz living in a bubble?

A bubble of being intelligent with common sense and having friends the same? That should be normal. Hello, Idiocracy.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #38)

Wed Mar 1, 2017, 08:22 PM

41. It should be the norm.

 

Unfortunately it is not. The last election proved that.

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