Chris Cillizza: Bernie Sanders still doesnt know what the Democratic party stands for

[brooklynite]

Washington Post:

Bernie Sanders isn't too happy these days with the party he ran to lead in 2016. And he wants to make sure you know it.

In a lengthy -- and very good -- New York Times magazine piece on the future of the Democratic party, Sanders is asked what the party currently stands for. Here's how he responds:

You’re asking a good question, and I can’t give you a definitive answer. Certainly there are some people in the Democratic Party who want to maintain the status quo. They would rather go down with the Titanic so long as they have first-class seats.

That's remarkable. Not only did Sanders run for president in 2016 -- and win almost two dozen states! -- but he also is now a member of Democratic Senate leadership thanks to Chuck Schumer. And, when asked one of the simplest questions in all of politics -- what does your party stand for -- he admits he can't really answer it.

Part of that is simply for affect. Of course Sanders can offer his own vision -- a liberal one -- of who the Democratic party is and where it needs to go. He chooses not to because he views the party as still too in thrall to the power brokers, donors and consultant class and not committed enough to real change. By saying you don't really know what the party stands for, you are making sure people know you're not happy.

[democratisphere]

1. Gag order.

[Fresh_Start]

2. Lets make sure we manage to disengage future voters today

because we can't do enough to cripple the Democratic Party if we don't start immediately to lose the next election.

[SFnomad]

63. Disengage future voters?

Who is purposely trying to disengage future voters?

I'm seeing some of you people having the attitude that if we don't change to suit what you people want and to do it now, you're just going to take your ball and go home. That's self-disengagement. Maybe when they start acting like adults and understand to make changes you have to do it from inside and that those changes are typically (but not always) incremental and slow, they'll come back around.

[Fresh_Start]

68. I'm not disengaged...I think that any "democratic leader" saying they don't know

what the party stands for is destroying peoples engagement with the democratic party.
If Bernie doesn't know what the party stands for he can read the party platform ...but to say "I can’t give you a definitive answer... They would rather go down with the Titanic so long as they have first-class seats" is an insult to every democrat. There are always questions about HOW to accomplish things.....but there isn't that much disagreement about the goals.

[brush]

110. Seems his default stance is to always attack the party, a big reason we lost IMO.

And he's still doing it.

He cancels out all of his solid, progressive positions with attacks on the party that gave him a national platform, and thus gains no traction.

Hope he figures that out one day.

[NCTraveler]

3. Quotes like that are simply directed at his base.

He knows how to play them well. Look, even HA Goodman was able to get to his base.

"Democratic Party who want to maintain the status quo."

That's how to go for LIV's.

[JTFrog]

4. So was RT. nt

[Gothmog]

48. Agreed

[uponit7771]

53. +1

[George II]

95. But sadly "his base" showed little interest in voting last year, at least voting for Clinton.

[Demsrule86]

100. not just Clinton for Democrats...and it seem as if some want to keep it that way.

[NCTraveler]

115. Not too sure about that. I don't recall seeing the numbers.

His core base who fall for lines like the one above is actually pretty small. Active, aggressive, and on the less politically educated side; but small none the less. There were and are many good Sanders supporters who are Democrats. The are the group who don't buy into political deities. I believe they are an overwhelming majority of his past supporters.

[nocalflea]

127. Even after he pushed her left.

Was it the whole loaf they were after ? Did/do they understand the importance of making concessions ? the democratic process ?

[caroldansen]

5. He's confused. After all he has been working very hard. And he has

Been making progress for our side. Like speaking out against trump in West Virginia.

[Demsrule86]

90. Yeah and I thought that was a step in the right direction...

but then he says something like this...and I just wish he would go away.

[yodermon]

6. Stop taking corporate money and being beholden to those donors. very simple really. n/t

[Proud Liberal Dem]

67. I'm not saying I support taking corporate money

but where are the alternate streams of money to finance campaigns? A few wealthy progressive benefactors and a grassroots coalition can band together to finance a few elections but I'm not seeing how we compete in most elections around the country without some corporate donors at this point. Nothing is changing in the foreseeable future for how our (ridiculously expensive) elections are financed and certainly not with Republicans- whom have access to loads and loads of corporate cash every election season thanks to CU. So, what's the solution? I'd like to know. What's Bernie's solution?

[Blue_true]

74. A lot of people want public financing of elections.

That would work as long as that is the only funding and outside groups can't influence elections and lobbying is banned. But without tha, taking corporate money out of elections is a pipedream.

[yodermon]

122. "What's Bernie's solution" are you serious

take all the time you need.

[Demsrule86]

91. Tell the so called progressives that are so pure that gave us Trump to stop causing us to lose,

and let us get rid of United...but Bernie should think before he speaks...those comments negate any good he did in WVA...seriously.

[Blue_Tires]

108. How about we ban *ALL* the fucking money and make elections publicly funded?

Because it takes mountains of cash to win races, and the Dems will never willingly handicap themselves by cutting off a revenue stream the other side takes full advantage of...

[BeyondGeography]

7. It's too bad

Bernie showed again the other night in WV what an asset he is for putting government on the side of people, which is a basic value all Democrats hold. Are there questions of degree? Of course. But as Bernie's own record shows, no one is purer than the driven snow. But instead of giving a simple answer to a simple question, he condescends. He never misses a chance to show why many people who have actually worked with him consider him to be a pain in the ass.

[randome]

8. I've had too many posts hidden for my remarks on Sanders.

So I won't make any now.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[Sunlei]

10. I love Bernie, I hope I have half his energy when I'm his age.

[jrthin]

70. Ditto n/t

[Blue_true]

76. I have had the same thing happen. If you criticize Sanders

even mildly, an alert stalker can alert your post and that person's posse votes to erase your post for "refighting the primary" or something like that. It is gross, crass and abusive and not remotely ethical or right.

I like what Bernie is doing with town halls, I wish more Democrats did them regularly. But Bernie never has had all the answers and can often be vague on potential solutions to problems.

[liquid diamond]

105. Same here. Those cliques are still on the prowl.

[Sunlei]

9. who's Chris Cillizza? Another divisive person who doesn't believe 'we're stronger together'?

di·vi·sive


/dəˈvīsiv/
adjective
adjective: divisive
tending to cause disagreement or hostility between people.
"the highly divisive issue of abortion"
synonyms: alienating, estranging, isolating, schismatic
"a divisive scheme to set his rivals against each other"

[OnDoutside]

12. He's a Morning Joe crony and not to be trusted.

[Sunlei]

26. oh, thanks is that pay TV news show?

[OnDoutside]

46. Well, I don't pay anyway ;)

[QC]

78. I'm sure he just picked up a lot of fans here, though. n/t

[OnDoutside]

125. He'll go round again ;)

[kstewart33]

18. He's leaving Wash Post and will join CNN. nt

[BannonsLiver]

21. Cilliza is the consumate walking bedsore

He is the very definition of the word cretin.

[Sunlei]

39. If its pay 'news entertainment' it's not my cup of tea. Guess that's why I didn't know the name.

Bernie's focus on Americas Insurance Corporation takeover & his recent 'face to face' visit to West Virginia, must have upset Mr. Cillizza the pay news "star" .

[lapucelle]

111. The article is actually quite laudatory of Sanders' efforts.

If you read the actual story, Cillizza paints a very flattering portrait of the fiery independent from Vermont and his efforts to reform the party he has yet to officially join.

You are correct in pegging Cillizza as an overpaid, born-rich, privileged, media star who is very good at promoting the villagers' standard narrative. He wants to keep those paychecks coming.

[KPN]

27. +1000!

I no longer pay any attention to anything he writes or says.

[MaeScott]

36. Chris thrives on "controversy ", bless his heart.

Get over the rocks/sucks mess. We are all in this and need to listen to each other. Work together. Not yell past one another. Yeah, taking that corporate dough sucks tho, but hey I'm a Dem. woohoo

[Starry Messenger]

133. He was Mr. Both Sides Suck during the GE.

I'm not a fan.

[lapucelle]

11. I thought Sanders was running to be president, not leader

of the Democratic party, and that he ran as a Democrat in order to utilize structures already in place

It's ironic that some of the things that Sanders has to say about the Democratic party and Democrats in general might earn him alerts and hidden posts here on DU.

[WhiteTara]

13. I can't comment on this OP

my lips are zipped.

[coco22]

14. I think many of the ..

Democrats don't know what we stand for..

[dchill]

51. +1000

[uponit7771]

55. WE agree, but MOST know how to read the DNC website and pays have ass'd attention to DNC policy

[The Polack MSgt]

15. Look, I am not a Bernie fanboy, but Chris Cillizza?

Chris Cillizza is a damn anti-Democratic Party hack.

If Cris is hitting at Bernie, Bernie is doing something right.

[KPN]

28. Can't agree more.

[uponit7771]

57. No, that was a quote... that's not a "hit"

[Demsrule86]

93. Not when he calls the Democratic Party the Titanic he is not.

[SecularMotion]

16. It may be time for a restraining order.

[The Wielding Truth]

83. Against?

[SecularMotion]

124. The Democratic Party is in an abusive relationship with Bernie Sanders.

[The Wielding Truth]

138. I don't feel that way. He is a leader for the 99%. He ran with no PAC and no wall street money.

How many in our Party are willing to be truly democratic like Bernie. That's all. That is why he can not gush praise on our Party. We have a long way to go to regain the little d in the Democratic Party.

Still we are one million or one billion times better than the majority party in the drivers seat now.

[SecularMotion]

141. The Democratic Party will never be progressive enough for Bernie and his supporters

Bernie needs to stop the constant barrage of complaints against Democrats and get back to promoting progressive issues.

It's counter productive and in the long run will erode any remaining good will for Bernie Sanders.

[Orsino]

17. Those looking to re-fight the primaries need to look deeper than the sound bites...

...and misleading headlines. For someone allegedly unable to give an answer, that was a pretty good answer. In identifying resistance to progressive change even in our own party, one need look no further than, say, committee chairs too cozy with payday lenders, or with some of the Dem Senate votes confirming ludicrous Trump nominees.

Status quo isn't always bad--it's what parties are mostly for, and Sanders' leadership position is a counterexample--but he isn't just restating the question. He's challenging us all to push for what should be done differently. Cilizza even notes this.

Cilizza is pretending not to understand a common rhetorical device, and he's doing it simply for effect (sic). The party is to some extent at war with itself; it always has been, and if it's to be the party of change, should be.

[ms liberty]

79. This. Great comment, Orsino.n/t

[budkin]

19. Cillizza is a troll

Nothing more.

[delisen]

20. If he doesn't know how can work for the party? Lame.

[pnwmom]

22. He should try reading the platform that he helped to negotiate. nt

[JHan]

33. lol

[ProfessorPlum]

23. F you Cillizza

It's obvious to all but the bubbled elite that Sanders is talking about too much corporate influence in the Democratic party. That should concern everyone, even Republicans who might not want corporations making _every_ decision about how our citizens live their lives.

[NurseJackie]

24. I wish he was optimistic and postive. More like Keith. #BeLikeKeith

Is this his idea of "outreach" and getting people interested in our party? I wonder if he's the best person for that position. Could someone else do it better? Is his heart really in the mission of the "Outreach" objectives?

By way of an analogy, I think he prefers being the "Home Contractor Guy" ... he likes the Demolition/Repairs/Remodeling aspect. Unfortunately, Bernie appears to be not so keen on being the "Real Estate Agent" whose job is to attract interest and promote the party by putting things in an positive and optimistic way.

Yeah, I get that Bernie's "not happy" (as mentioned in the OP) ... sure, he can feel that way. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion about the Democratic Party. But with his obvious sour attitude about Democrats, is he REALLY the best person to be out there selling and promoting the party in the role of being our "Outreach" ambassador?

The "Outreach" job (Selling) seems to conflict with the thing he enjoys doing most (Demolition and Repairs). In my opinion, he's definitely the most passionate about "Remodeling" and he lacks enthusiasm about "Promoting"... seems like that often takes a back seat in his priorities.

Personally, I think it's not Bernie's fault. He was just tasked with too much. I don't think it's realistic to expect that ANY person could do be successful at doing both things simultaneously.

It's pretty clear to me that greater success would be found by doing one OR the other, but not both.



----
Hello, Alerter! These are my opinions about whether Bernie is the best person for the party's "Outreach" mission. My personal belief and opinion that Bernie isn't the best person for the job is not an attack or smear. My personal belief that our party needs someone who's dedicated exclusively to the "Outreach" mission... with fewer distractions and conflicts... is not against the rules.

[Gothmog]

60. I have met and like Keith Ellison but I did not support his bid for DNC chair

I am so very impressed with the way that he has handled being co-chair and the way that Keith is working with Tom Perez. I liked Ellison before and my admiration has grown due to his conduct after the DNC race

[Tom Rinaldo]

66. Outreach is not one size fits all

There are at least several segments of the public that Democrats need to be targeting outreach to in order to expand the number of votes we get and races that we reach. In some ways the position Bernie has on the Senate leadership team is in a lesser way similar to the DNC Chair role (lesser in that it is more narrowly defined and part time etc.) Only one person gets the title, but no one person alone does the work needed to succeed. Perez wisely brought on Ellison as a deputy. Schumer expanded the Senate Democratic leadership team to give both roles and leadership positions to others on our team - including Bernie.

Bernie is not in all instances the ideal person to lead outreach for Democrats to all segments of the public. In other instances he is an ideal choice. A lot of the people who Bernie Sanders energized during his run for President on the Democratic line became and have remained active Democrats since then. I know that as a fact at the local level because I am the Chair of the Democratic Committee for our Township. There is significant new energy for our party at the local level. No doubt Trump has a lot to do with it, but most of the people who have become engaged with the local Democratic party efforts of our committee are people who first entered the realm of electoral politics through their involvement supporting the Sanders presidential run. Now though, with the primary behind us, they are contributing in a wide range of ways as local party activists - the splits are in the past.

However I accept that Bernie is not a silver bullet for outreach. Some respond much better to other party leaders. Where Bernie may resonate with some who have been alienated from our Party in the past, he may put off some others who could feel he hasn't given enough credit to what Democrats have already accomplished and their ongoing work on behalf of the American people. Right now we need a full court press, and each of our key players bring different strengths to our team.

P.S. Since we have clashed some in the past let me also say that I found your post entirely constructive in nature though we may still differ regarding some specifics

[NurseJackie]

80. You're correct. It's not "one-size-fits-all" ... how can it be? But, it's clearly a mistake...

... to give the job to a single individual who lacks the ability (or willingness) to adjust the message depending on the audience. Or, for that matter, who's willing to even seek out a broader audience in the first place.

Some may "respond" to Bernie... but considering everything previous, his current message (tone and demeanor and attacks) obviously have limited appeal (not unimportant, but LIMITED). In the long run, it's my opinion that his approach risks doing more harm than good. His negative message and "smearing" and "trashing" of Democrats and the Democratic party, and insinuating that Democrats and the Democratic party are "corrupt" also give ammo and talking-points to Republicans and Greens and other gadflies like Susan Sarandon.

In my opinion, the path he currently follows offers limited potential, and few benefits (not zero, but few). On the other hand, the negative consequences are greater than the limited potential. He may indeed believe that he's our only hope to fix the Democratic party, and that his-way is the only-way. But, it's pretty clear that he's damaging the party's brand, the party's reputation. It delays the party's ability to grow, and it gives more time to the Republicans to become even stronger.

Surely he's not totally unaware of the division within the party, and the reasons they exist, yet he barrels-on like a bull in a china shop, instead of looking for ways to find common ground or to be make it easier for party members to work together or to reconcile their differences. That's a mistake. He shouldn't be doing that. Even if it does excite and energize that small segment of disaffected voters, is it worth losing MORE than one gains? (I think not.)

Personally, I believe that the "Outreach" duties were offered to him as a consolation prize for Bernie (and his fans.) The honor has been offered and accepted. It was a kind gesture, an olive-branch, a pat on the back, and that's all it was. I seriously doubt that it was because anyone honestly believed that he was absolutely the most capable and BEST POSSIBLE CHOICE for that role.

I think Bernie should be honest with himself and he should be willing to hand it off to someone who has the skills to pursue a MUCH LARGER SWATH of the electorate with a more positive and optimistic message... someone who has the ability to understand that the job is not "one-size-fits-all" and who has the ability to adjust their message accordingly.

Having said that, I should also point out that even if he did go ahead and give up the mission assignment, NOTHING would prevent Bernie from doing his thing and continuing to pursue those "alienated" voters... sure... bring 'em all in.


----
Hello, Alerter! These are my opinions about whether Bernie is the best person for the party's "Outreach" mission. My personal belief and opinion that Bernie isn't the best person for the job is not an attack or smear. My personal belief that our party needs someone who's dedicated exclusively to the "Outreach" mission... with fewer distractions and conflicts... is not against the rules.

[Tom Rinaldo]

96. We see many of the same moving pieces in play but differ in how we weigh them

I appreciate your well considered post. We are squarely in the realm of opinion and analysis here. My end results differ from yours but you covered meaningful bases. Probably my sharpest area of disagreement with you is with this sentence:

"His negative message and "smearing" and "trashing" of Democrats and the Democratic party".

Even with your use of quotation marks to soften the accusations I strongly disagree with you there and reject those charges. Bernie does not and did not smear and/ or trash Democrats and the Democratic Party. We can debate whether his message regarding Democrats is "negative", that could be a constructive discussion. But "smearing" and "trashing" Democrats could perhaps be reasonable accusations to make against some who have supported Sanders, but not against him.

Bernie has at times pointed to areas where Democrats have allowed the appearance of a conflict of interests to exist. That has significant political ramifications which need to be considered if we seek to win political races. An appearance of a conflict can be undeniably true without an actual conflict also existing. It is not trashing or smearing anyone to point out an appearance of a possible conflict of interests when that apparance in fact exists. Democrats lost approximately 1,000 legislative seats nationwide during the Obama presidency. That wasn't because Bernie Sanders was trashing and smearing Democrats. We need to be fearless in examining what factors have contributed to the weakening of the "Democratic brand". Particularly among the young since they represent the future.

[Blue_true]

81. Keith Ellison is doing it right. He sees the problems and is working

internally to fix them. I think we should welcome in young people and new people and encourage those that want to put themselves out to run for office.

[NurseJackie]

85. Internally... yes, exactly.

[NurseJackie]

25. What's Chris Cillizza's claim-to-fame? I remember seeing him on Olbermann...

... a long time ago, but then after Olbermann's show went off the air, Cillizza kind of disappeared too.

[Gothmog]

50. Clizza had a ton of articles attacking Clinton

https://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/09/25/50-headlines-that-reveal-wash-post-reporter-chr/205765 CNN has been making some questionable hires for a while now

[NurseJackie]

54. I see what you mean. (Thanks.)

[Gothmog]

58. I am not a fan of Clillizza

I do not watch CNN and so this is a good place for him

[lapucelle]

112. Chris spent his formative years here and it shows.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loomis_Chaffee_School

[choie]

29. Guess what?

Bernie is right!

[hatrack]

30. For those who can't handle the intellectual rigor of Dead Intern Joe . . .

. . . there's Chris Cillizza!

[NurseJackie]

59. His constant "smearing" of the Democratic Party seems to be ...

... completely at-odds with, and inconsistent with, the mission he has as the party's "Outreach" ambassador (or some-such).

We need someone else in the "Outreach" role, other than Bernie. We can do better, I believe. Smearing and trashing Democrats (and the party) doesn't seem to be an effective way to growing the party, in my opinion.


----
Hello, Alerter! These are my opinions about whether Bernie is the best person for the party's "Outreach" mission. My personal belief and opinion that Bernie isn't the best person for the job is not an attack or smear. My personal belief that our party needs someone who's dedicated exclusively to the "Outreach" mission... with fewer distractions and conflicts... is not against the rules.

[KPN]

32. Cillizza is a dope.

[flamingdem]

34. Bernie is working hard for the party

He can say whatever the hell he wants he's earned it

[WinkyDink]

38. He's certainly working hard for Bernie Sanders.

[flamingdem]

41. Chuck Schumer agrees with me

I see you are still suspicious of him

[NurseJackie]

65. He's got too much on his plate. He's conflicted in which "job" takes priority (in my opinion.)

His "Outreach" mission is obviously in conflict with his (seemingly) nonstop public trashing of Democrats and the Democratic party. He can't be effective in promoting a positive and optimistic image of the party if his true passion (or the thing he does most often) is to publicly trash us, or insinuate that the party is "corrupt".

I get that he's passion about his ideas and how he wants to "reform" the party in his image... but I think he's being a bit myopic in how he wants to go about doing that... and in the meantime, even as an admitted "outsider", he's struggling to achieve EITHER of his main objectives.

He's just got too much to do, and he's been over-tasked with jobs that are at-odds with each other. Maybe he thinks he's helping, but his heart isn't in it. As far as promoting the party and putting Democrats in a positive light, he's basically phoning-it-in.

I'm certain that there's someone else out there who'd be a better "ambassador" for the Democratic Party.


----
Hello, Alerter! These are my opinions about whether Bernie is the best person for the party's "Outreach" mission. My personal belief and opinion that Bernie isn't the best person for the job is not an attack or smear. My personal belief that our party needs someone who's dedicated exclusively to the "Outreach" mission... with fewer distractions and conflicts... is not against the rules.

[WinkyDink]

130. I have my own Democartic principles; I don't need to refer to Chuck Schumer's.

[Blue_true]

87. I have honestly started to question his endgame.

I think Perez and Ellison are doing things right. I hope they listen to and engage everyone on the progressive side.

[JHan]

35. I'd like the status quo under Obama back please.

That's all I'm asking.

(Stupid ass status quo arguments get on my last nerve)

[brer cat]

47. I would vote for that in a heartbeat! nt

[geek tragedy]

37. no one can give a definitive answer, Democratic party has always been a diverse coalition

rather than a disciplined authoritarian structure. Bernie's being honest in saying he doesn't have an answer.

Of course, he did throw in the perfunctory sanctimony, but that's just Bernie being Bernie.

[WinkyDink]

40. Is there not a Platform? Are we not the Party of the Social Contract? Of fairness, equality, and

help?

[geek tragedy]

43. that's not a bad answer, actually nt

[JHan]

49. That's it exactly. I know it to be so which is why I'm a liberal and a democrat.

[lunatica]

42. God forbid that a progressive activist push any sensitive buttons or get under anyone's skin!

He didn't cut and run after he lost his bid for nomination. He didn't just sink into oblivion and go skulk back to his home to lick his wounds. He doesn't remain silent about Corporate interests, healthcare, student loans and the tax giveaways for the rich. He's still fighting as hard as he did when he ran for President because, evidently the reasons he ran are more important than the office he lost.

But hey! He irritates!! Like I said, God forbid that a progressive activist push any sensitive buttons or get under anyone's skin!

[lunatica]

104. Democrats need to listen to Sanders and not Corporations

People should listen instead of constantly telling him to shut up. Why should he shut up? Is he wrong? No.

It's just that everyone wants him to fall in line and be just like them. Throwing the sick, the elderly, students and the middle class under the bus. Or if not that then allowing the Republicans to do it.

[Demsrule86]

113. I would be more than willing to listen if he would join the party...

instead of calling it the Titanic.

[lunatica]

119. So you don't listen even though he has great ideas

Because his delivery is that of a grumpy old man?

Really?

[QC]

145. That really is a Heathers level of shallowness, isn't it? n/t

[lunatica]

148. I don't know your reference

but I'd love for you to explain it. I'm intrigued.

[QC]

149. A favorite 80s film:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097493/?ref_=nv_sr_1

[lunatica]

150. Thanks!

I'll have to watch it to get your reference to the shallowness of the Heathers. But my answer is probably 'yes'. That shallow.

[QC]

151. It really is a great film. Very dark takeoff on the John Hughes clichs

of the 80s, though I love those Hughes films as well.

[lapucelle]

117. After Sanders lost the nomination,

he did take some "alone time", but that was to meet a book deadline as per contractual agreement.

I haven't seen any "skulking" or "sinking" on the part of any of the Democrats involved in the 2016 campaign, not Obama or Biden or Warren or Schumer or Kaine or Clinton.

Their messaging has been both strategic and effective (as evinced by Perez and Ellison), and it is exactly what one would expect from the smartest people in the room.

[lunatica]

120. He's always had that grumpy old man delivery

But some of us can see past it to listen to his message.

[lapucelle]

121. I listened to him every Friday for years

on Thom Hartman's radio show.

I sometimes think about the strong and powerful influence Sanders would be wielding now if Democrats had won the White House and/or the Senate. It is yet another example of elections having far reaching consequences.

[bekkilyn]

44. Maybe one day Perez will let us know. (nt)

[msanthrope]

103. You seem concerned. Please feel free to air more of your concerns, and enjoy your stay. nt

[bekkilyn]

107. Not really the place for it, but thank you. (nt)

[uponit7771]

52. REALL !?!?!?!??!?

[LanternWaste]

56. I'm not surprised at all by the reponse you've imagined.

"hen asked one of the simplest questions in all of politics -- what does your party stand for..."

I don't think "what does the party stand for?" has either absolute or a consensus answer any more than "what does America stand for?".

However, as your own interpretation certainly validates a consistent narrative you maintain, "you are making sure people know you're not happy..."

[sarcasmo]

61. I was following Cillizza on Twitter, recently noticed more support/positive push for Donnie.

[bettyellen]

62. How is this outreach? Seriously sad to see this.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

64. I appreciate what Sanders contributes to progressive causes

but I don't understand why he is so prominent in discussions about the Democratic Party, what it stands for, and how to do better in future elections when he is NOT even a member of it- and was only a member of it long enough to try to run for President last year. Why aren't people like our new DNC head, Thomas Perez, and his deputy, Keith Ellison, talked about/to more? Why aren't we hearing from people whom have been Democrats all of their lives/careers? I know that Bernie caucuses with the Democrats, I know that he votes with the Democrats almost all of the time and I get that that makes him ideologically aligned with the party but I get frustrated that it seems like, since last year, he is put up on a pedestal and given so much print and and airtime as an authority on a party of which he is not even a member- and when he spends a lot of it trying to attack the Democratic Party, oftentimes in a billigerent, non-constructive manner? It doesn't help the Democratic Party (or anybody, really) to have him continue to trash the Democratic Party and give Trumpublicans more ammo when the entire progressive/left-wing/Democratic structure should be out there fighting Trumpublicans instead of each other.

[Tom Rinaldo]

72. He had to earn it the old fashioned way. Demonstrating support for his ideas

Prior to his run for President he was all of the things you mentioned above:

"I know that Bernie caucuses with the Democrats, I know that he votes with the Democrats almost all of the time and I get that that makes him ideologically aligned with the party"

All of that gave him a minor role in the Democratic Party over the course of his many terms in Congress.

What changed that was the undeniable fact that with little name recognition outside of Vermont, with almost no major donors backing his campaign, with no national machine backing him, and with little media attention given him prior to the Iowa caucus, Bernie electrified large crowds of people who came out to see him, mounted a very serious campaign for the Democratic nomination, and broke all records for mass small donation fund raising.

All of that is objectively beyond dispute, but some would add to the above that Bernie sensed the restless mood of the electorate better than almost anyone else in the Democratic Party leadership in the year preceding the presidential election. He certainly showed an ability to connect with some key parts of the electorate who failed to enthusiastically back our ultimate candidate.

Bernie became a national leader as a result of the way he rose to the occasion rather than becoming a mere blip as a little known protest candidate - the fate of ex- Senator Mike Gavin back in 2008 for example. Had Barack Obama not risen to the occasion the way that he did when he delivered the keynote address at the Democratic Convention in 2004, he would not have been the force that he was in Democratic politics in 2008 either.

[Me.]

69. With Responses Like This

I find I think the initials of his name are appropriate

[Blue_true]

71. I am in the Democratic Party.

I want to see changes in the party, but I want those changes made by people who are committed to the party.

[NurseJackie]

88. Change comes from within. Not because someone shouts at us from the sidelines.

Making a lasting commitment to the cause is the first step.

[SharonClark]

73. Chris Cillizza is a snake and trying to cause discord within the party.

In this case, Sanders is his wingman; he just can't stop himself from another self-righteous, and stupid, reply.

[dlk]

75. Bernie is Not a Democrat

If Bernie truly cares so much about the Democratic Party, why isn't he a member?

[Trumpocalypse]

144. So true

and many here seem to forget that.

[LisaM]

77. Bernie is a legit spokesman for one wing of the Democrats.

My larger issue is that I think that he is a type who doesn't feel that the Democratic party should represent a wide range of beliefs and that they are going to vary depending on which part of the country you're in. This is where I differ with him. I think we should have the widest net possible, even though I am probably ideologically more in line with the more progressive wing. I live in a large, liberal city in a solidly blue state, so it's easy for me. If I lived in Tennessee or someplace, it would be different.

[alarimer]

82. Chris Cilliza is full of shit.

Bernie Sanders is a better Democrat than almost anyone currently in the party and he certainly understands the predicament most people are in and is most effective when reaching out (see the recent town halls for example). He is likely more effecting doing that than just about anyone else.

But I guess the team labels matter more than anything else. But there is a reason more and more people identify as independents.

So the complaint mainly seems to be that Sanders is not officially a Dem. It's clear that he touches a nerve. Democrats have failed and failed and failed doing the same thing over and over and over again that they might as well try something else.

[Goblinmonger]

84. He's not wrong.

We lost to probably the worst presidential candidate of a major party ever. And may want to just keep up with what got us there.

But, yeah, shoot the messenger. He's out there working hard for progressive ideals. Sure, it's not pre-recorded message on Twitter, but he is doing work.

[Demsrule86]

97. Gosh of course we must cut our candidates

off from funds...why we know how generous people are in off year elections; I am sure we could get some money (not much based on historical levels)...I am certain that we can raise the billions need to take back the House , the Senate and the White House...our purity will shine through for sure (sarcasm) and defeat the GOP money guys...I would like to point out that the candidate who called Hillary Goldman's girl...just appointed Goldman people for his administration.

[Goblinmonger]

101. So, one vote for continuing the status quo. Noted.

[Demsrule86]

102. No the purity crowd gave us Trump...I am for winning / now that would a change for the better and

Last edited Wed Mar 15, 2017, 02:55 PM - Edit history (1)

in order to win you need money.

[Goblinmonger]

114. The non-unicorn candidate lost.

You do remember that, right?

[NastyRiffraff]

86. I am one of the people who feel silenced

by those who alert on even mild criticisms of Sanders. So I won't comment on him, but on the OP. Which is good, and unsurprising.

(Note to alerter: I'm not criticizing Bernie Sanders in any way, and am not mentioning a certain primary. Find another reason.)

[NurseJackie]

134. I recently self-deleted and ended what could have been an interesting exchange...

... for the very reason you described. It's a game of gotcha, I've heard. The rewards aren't worth the risk.

[NastyRiffraff]

147. I have self-deleted and backed out of a post

because as you say, it's not worth it. As Dump would say, "sad."

[NurseJackie]

139. Not just that, but apparently actual Sanders quotes are considered to be alert-bait...

... I don't know this for a first-hand fact, but I've heard-tell more than once. Urban legend? Kernel of truth? It's hard to tell and what I personally know based on my experience remains inconclusive. I'll just have to remain open minded about the possibility and steer clear of doing anything that would put me at risk.



PS: Oh, by the way... FUCK Susan Sarandon! I'll dance and sing the day she retires from public life. She's toxic, vain, and divisive. I've got no patience for her. (And had it not been for her arrogance and vanity and stupidity, I'd probably have enjoyed watching her performance as Bette Davis, but I'll be damned if I'll support her or that show or that network now.) She's a total hack and didn't deserve to win that Oscar 22 years ago. The story and the script carried HER, not the other way around. She was lucky. All luck. No talent. She's got just one character: herself. Not a very wide range. If you've seen "Louise Sawyer" then you've seen every Sarandon character, even "Janet Weiss" was just a younger version of "Louise". Her one Oscar was her last Oscar. She'll never win another. Not even one of those "Lifetime Achievement" awards that the Academy presents to beloved actors and actresses who are at the end of their careers, and at 71 years, it's my dearest hope that she just fades into the sunset. She and Tim Robins seemed well-suited for each other, but "say-la-vee". Maybe she'll be lucky enough to find herself another old boy-toy thirty years her junior. If that'll shut her the fuck up (especially in election years) I'm all in favor of it.

[Demsrule86]

89. And this is why I don't like Bernie Sanders and do not think he is good for the Democratic Party.

You may well be the iceberg Bernie.

[George II]

92. At least those going down with the Titanic (a grossly exaggerated platitude) are on the Titanic....

....trying to save it, not standing on shore watching.

[msanthrope]

109. Well.....there was no "shore." No one to watch. Hubris sunk it, far from help. nt

[TNLib]

94. I'm not a Sander's fan but Bernie is his own man

I see him as a true progressive independent. I respect that.

Though it would be nice if he became a Democrat and a strong voice for the progressive wing of the party from within.

[George II]

98. No big surprise.

[Blue_Tires]

106. Would it kill him to say something positive just once?

[seaglass]

116. I don't like or trust Bernie Sanders and at the same time Cilizza is a slimey POS (this is known).

The linked NY Times Mag article is quite good and I recommending anyone reading Cilizza's crap read it.

[lunamagica]

118. What a truly stupid response

[George II]

123. He doesn't know what the Democratic Party stands for, but he's insisting on changing it anyway.

[NurseJackie]

136. Why should he get a free pass? Nobody else gets one. Why should he?

[George II]

146. Years ago when I first put my name in for nomination to a specific office here in town...

....I had to go before our party nominating committee for an interview. The first question they asked me was "Are you a Democrat?" I wouldn't have gotten the nomination otherwise.

[GallopingGhost]

126. I know discussing Sanders can be volatile,

but one thing I do like about him is his directness.

He was on Tapper a few minutes ago, and Tapper asked him about the wiretapping. Sanders gave his answer, and said, "He lies." The blunt truth. Few reporters, commentators and politicians say lie when discussing the so-called. They pussyfoot (pardon the pun) around, and use adorable words like misspoke, exaggeration, misconception.

Trump lies. Period!

[Ron Green]

128. Before Bernie Sanders, my county DP meetings had 6 or 7 in attendance, and

maybe 15 PCP's. With the Bernie group's addition there are over 50 PCP's and sometimes 70-80 at the meetings.

To everyone:
Is this happening where you are?

And: Are you still whining about whether he's going to "join the party?"

[WinkyDink]

132. I'm not whining at all, for I don't care what he does. Join; don't join. Just don't pretend.

[Tom Rinaldo]

135. We are seeing the same thing with our meetings where I am also n/t

[bekkilyn]

137. Loads more people

I'm one of the new people attending myself and Bernie was the one who inspired me to become more active. I personally couldn't give a flip what letter people have next to their names.

[NurseJackie]

140. Yeah, we know.

[Go Vols]

155. :)

[betsuni]

131. The passengers of the Titanic would've preferred a status quo voyage across the Atlantic ocean.

[tblue37]

142. For effect, not affect. He is supposed to be a professional writer. nt

[Trumpocalypse]

143. Maybe if he joined the party, he would find out.

[Lil Missy]

152. He's not a Democrat - why should we care?

[ymetca]

153. If the Democratic ship is the Titanic

then what's the Republican one? The Bismarck?

[truebluegreen]

154. So what does the Democratic Party stand for?

On fracking?
On climate change?
On free trade deals?
On military spending?
On college tuition?
On $15 minimum wage?
On improvements to Obamacare?
On further regulation of Wall Street / finance industry?

How about antitrust?
How about legalizing drugs?
How about income inequality? Or a minimum income?
How about raising taxes on rich "folks"?