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Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:07 PM

 

Trump officially became an illegitimate President today

Trump officially became an illegitimate President today. He is in office because he and his campaign conspired with an adversarial foreign power to commit seditious espionage against his rival for the Presidential election. And the FBI has evidence of this. This is a crime that has no parallel in the history of the United States. It must result in the resignation of Trump, Pence, their cabinet as well as anyone who knew of this possibility and sought to suppress this including Mitch McConnell.

We DUers all knew this to be the case. What we didn't know is whether the evidence would be there to prove it. The FBI now says they have evidence.

This is Watergate times a thousand. What Nixon did was a parking ticket compared to this.

170 replies, 32787 views

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Arrow 170 replies Author Time Post
Reply Trump officially became an illegitimate President today (Original post)
stevenleser Mar 2017 OP
H2O Man Mar 2017 #1
cilla4progress Mar 2017 #2
H2O Man Mar 2017 #3
trueblue2007 Mar 2017 #75
akbacchus_BC Mar 2017 #84
iluvtennis Mar 2017 #88
Amimnoch Mar 2017 #110
CTyankee Mar 2017 #137
olegramps Mar 2017 #139
FakeNoose Mar 2017 #144
dogknob Mar 2017 #148
mercuryblues Mar 2017 #151
Solly Mack Mar 2017 #4
Wellstone ruled Mar 2017 #6
Solly Mack Mar 2017 #21
pangaia Mar 2017 #27
Moostache Mar 2017 #43
KPN Mar 2017 #78
Hortensis Mar 2017 #90
Plucketeer Mar 2017 #146
KPN Mar 2017 #152
bitterross Mar 2017 #108
pangaia Mar 2017 #123
MFM008 Mar 2017 #42
3catwoman3 Mar 2017 #58
KPN Mar 2017 #81
SammyWinstonJack Mar 2017 #100
3catwoman3 Mar 2017 #125
BigBearJohn Mar 2017 #96
SammyWinstonJack Mar 2017 #101
Maraya1969 Mar 2017 #113
JudyM Mar 2017 #122
uponit7771 Mar 2017 #92
pangaia Mar 2017 #8
Solly Mack Mar 2017 #20
stevenleser Mar 2017 #11
Solly Mack Mar 2017 #17
brer cat Mar 2017 #19
stevenleser Mar 2017 #25
Wellstone ruled Mar 2017 #33
triron Mar 2017 #59
coco22 Mar 2017 #32
Solly Mack Mar 2017 #40
madokie Mar 2017 #77
annabanana Mar 2017 #102
volstork Mar 2017 #38
Solly Mack Mar 2017 #39
volstork Mar 2017 #41
dchill Mar 2017 #61
Lucinda Mar 2017 #5
Talk Is Cheap Mar 2017 #7
H2O Man Mar 2017 #9
Talk Is Cheap Mar 2017 #13
H2O Man Mar 2017 #15
blue neen Mar 2017 #18
pangaia Mar 2017 #29
MarcA Mar 2017 #91
SmartRat Mar 2017 #115
Talk Is Cheap Mar 2017 #22
DFW Mar 2017 #87
regnaD kciN Mar 2017 #68
annabanana Mar 2017 #103
sammythecat Mar 2017 #138
madokie Mar 2017 #79
7962 Mar 2017 #119
yardwork Mar 2017 #104
RicROC Mar 2017 #109
Maru Kitteh Mar 2017 #63
jmowreader Mar 2017 #82
Maru Kitteh Mar 2017 #86
DownriverDem Mar 2017 #131
llmart Mar 2017 #140
Maru Kitteh Mar 2017 #141
cbdo2007 Mar 2017 #112
Me. Mar 2017 #10
stevenleser Mar 2017 #12
ButSeeYa Mar 2017 #14
stevenleser Mar 2017 #16
ButSeeYa Mar 2017 #24
DownriverDem Mar 2017 #133
blue neen Mar 2017 #23
stevenleser Mar 2017 #28
blue neen Mar 2017 #31
mcar Mar 2017 #26
Crash2Parties Mar 2017 #30
stevenleser Mar 2017 #35
RainAndMoreRain Mar 2017 #34
Hekate Mar 2017 #57
panader0 Mar 2017 #36
randome Mar 2017 #37
eleny Mar 2017 #44
aquamarina Mar 2017 #45
keithbvadu2 Mar 2017 #46
kentuck Mar 2017 #47
briv1016 Mar 2017 #48
SticksnStones Mar 2017 #62
LovingA2andMI Mar 2017 #67
SticksnStones Mar 2017 #69
luvMIdog Mar 2017 #49
groundloop Mar 2017 #50
nini Mar 2017 #55
spanone Mar 2017 #51
Hekate Mar 2017 #52
catbyte Mar 2017 #53
BeyondGeography Mar 2017 #54
FailureToCommunicate Mar 2017 #56
R B Garr Mar 2017 #60
mehrrh Mar 2017 #64
AgadorSparticus Mar 2017 #65
LovingA2andMI Mar 2017 #66
akbacchus_BC Mar 2017 #70
Bayard Mar 2017 #71
stevenleser Mar 2017 #161
humbled_opinion Mar 2017 #72
Blue_Roses Mar 2017 #93
humbled_opinion Mar 2017 #170
liquid diamond Mar 2017 #116
elmac Mar 2017 #73
NamesDave Mar 2017 #74
Skittles Mar 2017 #76
VOX Mar 2017 #135
Skittles Mar 2017 #147
VOX Mar 2017 #156
akbacchus_BC Mar 2017 #83
StrictlyRockers Mar 2017 #80
Kimchijeon Mar 2017 #85
orleans Mar 2017 #89
pansypoo53219 Mar 2017 #94
WiffenPoof Mar 2017 #95
JustAnotherGen Mar 2017 #97
GliderGuider Mar 2017 #98
Botany Mar 2017 #99
nikibatts Mar 2017 #105
BlueMTexpat Mar 2017 #106
bucolic_frolic Mar 2017 #107
Demsrule86 Mar 2017 #111
rtracey Mar 2017 #114
liquid diamond Mar 2017 #117
ismnotwasm Mar 2017 #118
Name removed Mar 2017 #120
oberliner Mar 2017 #121
byronius Mar 2017 #124
yuiyoshida Mar 2017 #126
DownriverDem Mar 2017 #130
yuiyoshida Mar 2017 #136
Turbineguy Mar 2017 #127
DownriverDem Mar 2017 #129
Turbineguy Mar 2017 #134
DownriverDem Mar 2017 #128
Enoki33 Mar 2017 #132
Gothmog Mar 2017 #142
ProudProgressiveNow Mar 2017 #143
krakfiend Mar 2017 #145
wiggs Mar 2017 #149
hughee99 Mar 2017 #150
stevenleser Mar 2017 #153
hughee99 Mar 2017 #155
stevenleser Mar 2017 #159
hughee99 Mar 2017 #164
underthematrix Mar 2017 #154
heaven05 Mar 2017 #157
Tarheel_Dem Mar 2017 #158
L. Coyote Mar 2017 #160
stevenleser Mar 2017 #162
eniwetok Mar 2017 #163
stevenleser Mar 2017 #165
eniwetok Mar 2017 #166
stevenleser Mar 2017 #167
eniwetok Mar 2017 #168
stevenleser Mar 2017 #169

Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:08 PM

1. Recommended

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:11 PM

2. You are EVERYWHERE!

Love it!!

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:12 PM

3. Ha!

I love this stuff. Absolutely love it.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:24 AM

75. i am getting there. loving what is going on. BUT .... i still cry because Hillary isn't #45

She and the dems working together. It would have been amazing. I'm too emotional, I still get tears.

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Response to trueblue2007 (Reply #75)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:53 AM

84. So do I, and I agree with everything you say. Can you imagine how progressive the US would

continue to be if Mrs. Clinton was elected? She was cheated out of the Presidency but I sure hope this asshole fuckery of a president will soon be impeached. Here is my take, a liar, a cheat along with an escort ascended to the White House, how the fuck did that happen? Am still looking for answers!

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Response to trueblue2007 (Reply #75)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 01:24 AM

88. Likewise.

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Response to trueblue2007 (Reply #75)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 07:44 AM

110. She would have made a very good President!

 

That she didn't win makes me sad, but the thing that really makes me sad is the thing she lost to.

A part of me died on November 8th. I was never so nave to believe that racism was dead, or sexism was dead, or hate was dead. Hell, just about any article ever written on the topic brings out the racists, sexist pigs out of the woodwork to comment on them. But, I really did believe that their numbers weren't enough to put a president like... this thing.. in our Whitehouse.

I think what really is just sticking in my gut like some kind of seeping poison, is that he was elected based on the bile and crap that came right out of his mouth. The orange monster didn't even TRY to disguise his despicable ways, but went out of his way to promote it. The promises of white male supremacy wasn't made through surrogates, or veiled language, but laid right out there, and STILL enough people in the right states put that man in office.

I honestly don't know if I will ever love or care about this country again.

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Response to Amimnoch (Reply #110)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:15 PM

137. I hear you. I literally threw up on Election night.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:28 PM

139. What do we get if he is forced from office. The beady-eyed weasel Pence.

This a-hole is more dangerous than Trump. The situation that we find our nation in did not just happen within the last election cycle, but is the culmination of 40 years of hated machine propaganda that has produced a generation of delusional lemmings. I don't have much of a stake in the outcome since I am in the last years of my life. Good luck folks. I hope the younger people come to their senses and realize that ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES. Its their future, not mine that is at stake.

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Response to olegramps (Reply #139)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 04:16 PM

144. No Pence should be impeached too

Pence is in on this, you can be sure of it.

They're all weasels.



Lock 'em up.



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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #144)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 04:50 PM

148. If Trump, Pence, and cabinet* go...

President Paul Ryan.

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Response to dogknob (Reply #148)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 05:01 PM

151. which is why

Pence has to go 1st. It the office of VP becomes vacant, the president nominates someone and the houses have to confirm. That is the only way to make sure there isn't a religious nut in the Oval Office.


If Pence stays and it is known by the FBI he was involved, we have another president resigning/impeached.

Someone with clean hands will have to be VP, before trump goes down.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:13 PM

4. K&R

Ryan knew. He had to know.

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:15 PM

6. Ryan gave the marching orders.

 

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #6)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:30 PM

21. That's what I got from it.

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #6)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:41 PM

27. Ryan should hang,,,figuratively speaking of course.

He's one of the wizards ..,

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Response to pangaia (Reply #27)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:20 PM

43. No...anyone complicit in this should LITERALLY hang. (n/t)

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Response to Moostache (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:31 AM

78. Hate to admit it but I feel the same. n/t

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Response to KPN (Reply #78)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 02:16 AM

90. Want them all in prison. Real prison for terms

commensurate with their crimes, no pardons. As StevenLeser says, Watergate was a parking ticket next to this.

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Response to KPN (Reply #78)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 04:21 PM

146. Treason's a good reason

 

to start a hangin' season!

Too many Americans have DIED in the past century to protect us from just such skullduggery! What Trump 'n Comp. have done is akin to pissing on the graves of fallen veterans!

It's one thing to share nuclear secrets, divulge submarine blueprints or black market stealth technology. It's another thing ENTIRELY to subvert the whole nation for personal gain and power!

I want to see ANYONE who's however minorly complicit in the perpetration OR gain from this fiasco to be relieved of their authority and prosecuted as if they were (which some truly ARE) guilty of murder. I want each and EVERY dismissed executive action reversed to reinstatement - EVERY agency that's been quashed or neutered put back like it was AND...... we need a totally new election for any and all seats that have however little influence thru the sham we've watched play out. No fucking compromizes - no looking the other way cause someone is (or was) a good person. No more recent institutions of the voter impediments that have been systematically instituted by the GOP. None of that shit! GOPers always crowing about how great a nation this is - fucking PROVE IT! Show us how well you do on a level playing field, with ONLY a set amount of public funding AND with NO stupid-ass voting "machines" (rigged slot machines, really!). No more districts drawn to look like a contortionist's act!

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Response to Plucketeer (Reply #146)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 05:05 PM

152. Preach it man!

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Response to pangaia (Reply #27)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 07:25 AM

108. Why only Figuratively? We need to make some examples

 

18 U.S. Code 2381 - Treason

Current through Pub. L. 114-38. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

I'm all for a literal hanging of at least of few of these people who have clearly put self and party above country.

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Response to bitterross (Reply #108)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 09:38 AM

123. OK, I'll go with that..

Hung by the neck...... etc etc..........

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #6)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:18 PM

42. Don't forget

Mcturtlehead.
He's in it up to his googly eyes.

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #42)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:48 PM

58. That neck of his would need...

...an extra large noose.

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Response to 3catwoman3 (Reply #58)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:32 AM

81. no, a short noose -- a turtle's neck

stretches far.

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Response to KPN (Reply #81)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 05:57 AM

100. HA!

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Response to KPN (Reply #81)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 10:10 AM

125. I was thinking circumference...

...rather than length. He has a "generous" chin, to put it delicately.

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 05:21 AM

96. Can't decide who disgusts me more: Mcturtlehead or Eddie Munster

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Response to BigBearJohn (Reply #96)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 05:58 AM

101. Eddie Munster. Smarmy little bastard.

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 08:08 AM

113. McTurtlehead!

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 09:31 AM

122. Absolutely.

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 04:15 AM

92. +1

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:16 PM

8. Yup....he could so easily be the little shit behind it all.

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Response to pangaia (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:30 PM

20. Nunes said he went to Ryan and then the WH.

Ryan, being smart enough to not say "Go", probably more or less said it in language he could deny later.

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:20 PM

11. I suspect that's the case but we know for sure McConnell did.

 

It will all come out now.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:28 PM

17. I hope so.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:30 PM

19. Lawd, I hope you are right, Steve.

Getting trump is our primary aim, but if Ryan and/or McConnell were caught too, it would be a blessing for our country.

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Response to brer cat (Reply #19)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:35 PM

25. Remember the reports that McConnell fought Comey to not release the Russian-Trump investigation

 

during the election? That is an established fact. He won't politically survive having done that now.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #25)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:46 PM

33. And according to the Steele Docs,

 

we see some 12 million going to McConnell run PAC.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:48 PM

59. He was complicit

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:46 PM

32. McConnell too..

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Response to coco22 (Reply #32)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:00 PM

40. Yes

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #40)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:28 AM

77. Today feels like the beginning of the end

to me.

I sure hope so cause if not we're truly screwn bigtime

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Response to madokie (Reply #77)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 06:30 AM

102. It will depend of what's left of our Institutions.

Our Checks and Balances are creaky from lack of use.

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:58 PM

38. So did turtle.

That's why he stonewalled Garland. His wife got an appointment in thanks for his "service."

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Response to volstork (Reply #38)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:00 PM

39. I agree. He knew.

His wife's appointment was part of the payback. I'm sure there was more.

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #39)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:01 PM

41. I might hate him even more than trump,

which is saying a great deal...

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Response to volstork (Reply #41)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:50 PM

61. Easily.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:15 PM

5. KNR

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:16 PM

7. This is definitely a Constitutional crisis...

 

If the results of this treason is indeed as you write, what does the Constitution say in this regard?

Although unprecedented, I would advocate for a new election.

Are there other options?

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Response to Talk Is Cheap (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:18 PM

9. Keep in mind

that it's not only the Constitution that defines "treason." Previous federal court cases come into play, with equal power. These are being reviewed closely.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:22 PM

13. Yes but my concern is 'what happens if all this becomes true' and this president et.al are expelled?

 

What does America do in this situation?

New elections?
Install Clinton?
Ask the People?

If the 2016 election was completely fraudulent, what do we do?

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Response to Talk Is Cheap (Reply #13)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:25 PM

15. It could end

up Pence, or the Speaker of the House. There will be an attempt to create stability, under the rules of the Constitution.

I would expect some legal challenges to go to the USSC after that, advocating for another election. But I doubt that would happen.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #15)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:30 PM

18. Yes, but it's awfully hard to believe that Pence didn't know what was going on in the campaign.

Time will tell if Ryan knew, but if he knew, then we're looking at Orrin Hatch as President?

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Response to blue neen (Reply #18)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:43 PM

29. Oh Ryan knew. He knows all.

He is perhaps the evilest of all.

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Response to pangaia (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 02:44 AM

91. Agree!

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Response to blue neen (Reply #18)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 08:34 AM

115. Of course Pence knew...

Never forget, Pence was hand-picked by Manafort during the fake "plane problems". 45 had pretty much decided on Christie. (oy vey.)

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #15)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:32 PM

22. If the 2016 election was deemed fraudulent, which on many levels is/could be true...

 

...then, the concept that the Republicans won the presidency is totally invalid.
This invalidates all rights to presidential succession.

There is nothing in the Constitution that solves this problem and necessitates some heady
thinking as to what to do...

And I am not sure of the answer.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #15)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 01:13 AM

87. That is my fear as well

I doubt anyone in Congress will push for a wholesale annulment of the election, much as that would be the morally correct thing to do. Governments are scared of things without precedent (too bad they don't react with similar ingenuity to problems like these that are equally without precedent).

That therefore leaves us with Pence (from the fire back into the frying pan) or Ryan, who is most certainly aware of his (suddenly short) constitutional path to the presidency.

I see little chance that the Roberts Court, even short by one, will oversee a wholesale canceling of the election results and somehow call for a new one, even if a constitutional argument COULD be found. Imagine the wrangling over the rules of that one. Would it extend to the Congressional races as well (yum, slurp)?

The Republicans/Russians (it matters little at this point) put a few safeguards in place this time. No decent, halfway benevolent guy like Gerry Ford to take over if a hated controversial president is sent packing. Make no mistake--if Trump goes, unless the election results are nixed wholesale, we get someone just as bad, only more evil and less scatter-brained. Yeah, neither Pence nor Ryan would nuke Pyongyang, but their actions domestically with a Republican Congress would kill just as many Americans over time as a North Korean nuke landing in Century City.

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Response to Talk Is Cheap (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:17 AM

68. There is absolutely NO provision in the Constitution...

...for allowing new elections or the installation of the runner-up.

The ONLY Constitutional remedy for this case is impeachment (which would require a supermajority of the Republican-controlled Senate). If that succeeded, we get President Pence. If Pence should prove to be implicated, and removed along with Trump, it becomes President Ryan. Following that, President McConnell. Then President Tillotson. Then the line of succession will pass through each and every Cabinet member. (President Sessions! President Price! President Mnuchin! President DeVos!)

Bottom line: no matter what happens, we're going to be stuck with an extreme conservative Republican president until 1/20/21. And there's nothing we can do about it.

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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #68)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 06:32 AM

103. How far down the Order of Succession do we have to get to

find a President we MIGHT be able to trust?

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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #68)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:20 PM

138. Oh, that is truly discouraging.

It's bad guys all the way down!

"Bottom line: no matter what happens, we're going to be stuck with an extreme conservative Republican president until 1/20/21. And there's nothing we can do about it." We're in a world of shit with no way of getting out. Like being in a maximum security prison with no option other than stoically doing the time.



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Response to Talk Is Cheap (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:31 AM

79. Inaugurate Hillary

She won fair and square.

Hillary is our honest and rightful President.
No other way can this be parsed

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Response to madokie (Reply #79)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 09:05 AM

119. prepare for more disappointment then cause thats NOT going to happen.

 

there's nothing legally available FOR it to happen

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Response to Talk Is Cheap (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 06:53 AM

104. There's nothing in the Constitution about nullifying elections.

Instead, there's a long line of successions if the president has to step down. Unfortunately, all those positions are now held by Republicans.

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Response to Talk Is Cheap (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 07:37 AM

109. Install Clinton

The 2016 election was indeed fraudulent and the person who indeed won the most votes should be installed as President. There's no reason to hold a special election.

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Response to Talk Is Cheap (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:55 PM

63. There will be no new election, the law does not provide for that.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #63)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:45 AM

82. There is, and everyone in it is dirty

There are things the Constitution was never meant to handle, and this is one of them.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #82)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 01:12 AM

86. There is what? And I didn't say the Constitution, I said the law.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/19

It's one thing for many of them to be "dirty," quite another for them to be so deeply involved as to affect a removal or conviction.

Much will depend on whether any connections are proven with Pence. It's likely it will stop there. If the FBI shows Pence was undeniably involved, you can be sure the train will stop at Ryan.

I would rather have Pence in there, tainted, weakened and dull as a box of dirt.

Ryan would be painted as a reluctant savior, a blue-eyed wondrous Superman come to patch together the tattered republic and save us all. Ryan is slicker than baby shit, one who could easily capitalize on the whole sorry mess and actually present a formidable challenge in 2020.

No thank you.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #63)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:48 AM

131. I agree, but

What about the Supreme Court putting W in the White House? How come the law allowed for that?

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #131)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 02:10 PM

140. That was my thought also...

There's a first time for everything. Personally I think they should just inaugurate Hillary and all of Dump's picks should go and let her bring in her own people.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #131)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 03:57 PM

141. Because, strictly speaking the SCOTUS ruled on the findings of the lower court & equal protection.

Functionally it had the same result, but the SCOTUS did not cast votes for GWB. Their decision and supporting opinion was based in law. Obviously, the dissenting opinions were also based in law - but this is why elections matter in the first place. Prior to this election it was the most perfect example of how unicorn humpers like Susan Sarandon (maybe Trump would be better) and Jill Stein fuck over the country and the Earth, pushing our country further and further to the right by handing Republicans victory through useless votes and depressed turnout.

You can read the Bush v Gore ruling here:

The petition presents the following questions: whether the Florida Supreme Court established new standards for resolving Presidential election contests, thereby violating Art. II, 1, cl. 2, of the United States Constitution and failing to comply with 3 U.S.C. 5 and whether the use of standardless manual recounts violates the Equal Protection and Due Process Clauses. With respect to the equal protection question, we find a violation of the Equal Protection Clause.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-949.ZPC.html

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Response to Talk Is Cheap (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 07:55 AM

112. I could see them making a deal...

That would include making Hillary VP or something in exchange for them just clearing out Trump/Pence/Bannon and that whole crew.

Public opinion is already turning against them and I would say in another month will be REALLY against them, and with Hillary winning the popular vote, and the midterm elections just 1.5 years away, they will be scrambling to play nice and save face. I know, I know...The deplorables don't know how to play nice, but they do want to keep their jobs.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:20 PM

10. Today?

he was never

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Response to Me. (Reply #10)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:21 PM

12. Yes, but today the FBI said it had evidence of the Trump team

 

working with the Russians. Today it's official.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:24 PM

14. What happens now?

Everyday there's a new twist, but no consequences. What are the Intelligence Agencies doing? What will it take to stop this madness? Sorry for the rant. I'm frustrated.

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Response to ButSeeYa (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:26 PM

16. Now we wait while the Republicans in congress ruminate on how screwed they are

 

before beginning a broad congressional investigation that will lead to impeachment proceedings. it will take a few days or weeks.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #16)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:35 PM

24. Thanks stevenleser...

I pray we survive this.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:51 AM

133. During Watergate

The repubs finally did come around to being close to charging Nixon leading to impeachment. They told Nixon either you resign or we will impeach you. Those repubs were not like today. They put country first.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:32 PM

23. McConnell has been awfully quiet lately.

I hope he's scared *less.

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Response to blue neen (Reply #23)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:41 PM

28. Me too. He has to know he is screwed now. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #28)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:44 PM

31. There are many Republicans who have put party and power over country,

but McConnell has been the biggest culprit of all. Nothing that's good for the people ever gets done in the US anymore, and McConnell is one of the main reasons.

I would love to see him frog-marched.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:40 PM

26. K&R

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:44 PM

30. I may be mistaken, but cannot a (Dem) Senator get the Supreme Court to intervene?

You know, if Congress just decides not to act.

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Response to Crash2Parties (Reply #30)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:49 PM

35. Nope. Impeachment must begin in the US House of Representatives

 

and be tried in the Senate.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:47 PM

34. Military Coup and New Elections? What General Will Take Orders From Russian Trump?

 

I trust the generals far more than any slimeball currently in the White House.

Trump and his scumbags need to resign now.

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Response to RainAndMoreRain (Reply #34)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:45 PM

57. Military coup? No. Never wish for that. Down that road is the end of America...

...and the Constitution.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:51 PM

36. K and R

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 10:53 PM

37. I can see Comey walking through the White House with a bullhorn:

 

"Will all those who expect to be indicted please relinquish your position now so we can proceed in a more orderly fashion?"

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:23 PM

44. Today we can with more confidence go from belief to knowledge

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:25 PM

45. Recommended

 

What incredible times we are living in. The fall of this administration (and hopefully the entire Republican leadership) is going to be spectacular.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:26 PM

46. Trump supporters celebrate their victory. Russia won

Trump supporters celebrate their victory.

"It turns out that United Russia won the elections in America," Viktor Nazarov, the governor of Omsk, Russia, declared in a radio interview.

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/world/make-russia-great-again-if-trump-lifts-sanctions-putin-could-finally-establish-his-country-as-an-equal-to-u-s&pubdate=2016-12-03

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:27 PM

47. It appears to be so.

Well said.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:29 PM

48. Great, who's going to prosecute? Rosenstein? Congress?

Edit: Keep in mind, Russia also hacked the RNC.

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Response to briv1016 (Reply #48)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:54 PM

62. I feel like I want Canada to come on down and run the investigation

I'd trust Canada to sort ths out...

There's no one impartial left in this country.

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Response to SticksnStones (Reply #62)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:08 AM

67. Oh Canada....

Come save Our (America's) Democracy as it's totally f**cked up right now.....

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Response to LovingA2andMI (Reply #67)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:18 AM

69. Exactly. Although you gotta add 'please'

I hear they're real polite up there.



sigh... what a mess

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:29 PM

49. They must be locked up they were privy to classified info and can't be trusted

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:29 PM

50. YES IT DOES HAVE A PARALLEL - Reagan conspiring with Iran to not release US hostages

Ronnie Rayguns conspired with the Iranian captors of US hostages to hold our citizens until his inauguration. Then after that there was Iran-Contra.

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Response to groundloop (Reply #50)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:41 PM

55. As shitty as that was

it's not close to this mess.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:30 PM

51. how in hell will this play out? no precedent.

this will be interesting

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:30 PM

52. KnR

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:37 PM

53. I hope that this country still has the will and the honor to do the right thing. Presidents have

been let off the hook ever since Ford pardoned Nixon. I have no faith that any of them will pay any significant price for their unprecedented treachery.

I truly hope I'm wrong.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:39 PM

54. It is a very big deal

You can't have a President who owes favors to a foreign country because it helped him win an election. Can you?

One thing's for sure: We're gong to find out.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:44 PM

56. Agreed.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:49 PM

60. Excellent summary!

I'm going to read this over and over.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:56 PM

64. Trump's presidency

Trump's presidency must be put on hold insofar as any EOs, signed legislation, nominations and appointees.
Until this matter of subterfuge and possible treason, he is illegitimate and nothing he signs should be considered legal.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:57 PM

65. Yep. Knr!

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:05 AM

66. K/R.....

And GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR WHITE HOUSE.....

Trump, Pence, Their WHOLE CREW, Sean Spicer, Ivanka, Her Husband, Bobblehead Kellyanne Conway, Racist A**holes Steve Bannon & Stephen Miller, Trump's ENTIRE CABINET.....All of that s**t.

Oh, and get the HELL OUT OF OUR CONGRESS....
Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, The Entire Republican "Leadership" Delegation in BOTH HOUSES....

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:20 AM

70. Nice, Now when is the effer going to get impeached?

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:21 AM

71. I asked this question in another thread....

I don't understand why, if the Trump campaign was already under FBI investigation in the summer, why Comey did the Clinton Emails thing right before the election. Please explain that to me.

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Response to Bayard (Reply #71)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 10:07 PM

161. I don't know, but it is a question I would like to see Comey asked under oath, thats for sure.

 

It needs to be asked.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:22 AM

72. They will never resign

they will obfuscate and obstruct justice, they control all levels of power, Trump is still beloved by his minions they don't believe any of it not even with proof, so this is a big nothing burger which will get laughed away as Democratic partisan sour grapes.

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Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #72)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 04:21 AM

93. But NO ONE is above the law.

Karma has a way of making her rounds.

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Response to Blue_Roses (Reply #93)

Sun Mar 26, 2017, 07:02 PM

170. Watch next for Repubs

To start calling for independent special prosecutor in these supposed leaks and unmasking, if there is a paper trail and evidence they will go hard after the Obama admin folks as political payback.

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Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #72)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 09:00 AM

116. I agree. All of this talk about trump's impeachment is just

 

coping and wishful thinking. Despite all the talk, speculation and news articles, nothing has happened.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:23 AM

73. he always has been illegitimate

 

President Hillary Clinton is my president.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:24 AM

74. Hilary would have won if it wasn't for Russia

 

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Response to NamesDave (Reply #74)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:27 AM

76. and she won the popular vote without the help of the media, Russia and the FBI

SHE SHOULD BE PRESIDENT

Trump is a lying, TREASONOUS piece of SHIT

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Response to Skittles (Reply #76)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:11 PM

135. A-fucking-men, Skittles.

Never seen such a tsunami of criminal bullshit in my life.

Every one of these bastards should be locked up.

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Response to VOX (Reply #135)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 04:43 PM

147. and they had the GALL to scream CROOKED HILLARY and LOCK HER UP

and people who are DUMBER THAN FUCK fell for it

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Response to Skittles (Reply #147)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 05:32 PM

156. It's a cult. They isolate themselves, and only take in...

...bullshit "information" that further reinforces their delusions. They are incapable of thinking for themselves.

Anyone with a few functioning brain cells could discern that they were being sold a load of crap. Now all hell's broken loose, thanks to them. And have they learned their lesson? A few, maybe. But they'll keep voting for awful people who say a couple of magic words (God, "liberty," etc.).

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Response to NamesDave (Reply #74)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:48 AM

83. Totally agree with you. I knew something was amiss when the polling

started coming out. Mrs. Clinton was robbed of being the President and it was all because of interference with trump and his russian allies. This shit is going to set back the US for a long time!

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 01:01 AM

85. K&R

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 02:10 AM

89. history has shown me that the democratic reps are more prone to forgive and forget

rather than knock someone on their ass

remember the mantra "grow a spine"?

a few will talk tough--all talk & very little action-- we will wrist slap trump & his team and "move on" because it will be "the best thing for the country" (a song i vaguely remember hearing before)

i don't want that to happen.
i fear it will.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 04:44 AM

94. can mcconnell be removed too?

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 04:55 AM

95. My Contribution To The Trump Demise

Well, the lush separation unfolds you
And the products of wealth
Push you along on the bow waves
Of your spiritless undying selves

And you push on God's waiter
Your last dime
As He hands you the bill

And you spin in Slipstream
Tireless unreasoning
Better ride out of the mess
And you paddle right out if the mess

-Ian Anderson

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 05:26 AM

97. Kick

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 05:27 AM

98. The USA is in unknown territory now.

 

That means that we can not predict the behaviur of any of the participants whether on the right or the left*, Representatives or Senators, Trump or any of his sycophants. I expect their past behaviour to provide little, if any, guide to their behaviour now. There is still a framework of laws, but how people will react within that framework, and how those laws will be interpreted and applied, is very much an unknown.

Welcome to the other side of a political singularity.


* - I denote it this way because despite being to the left of the Republicans, IMO the Democratic party has become very much a party of the center-right.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 05:50 AM

99. Colorado Fed. Supermax Prison



Lock em up

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 07:13 AM

105. You mean for the second time?

 

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 07:20 AM

106. I have never seen Trump

as a "legitimate" President. I never will.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 07:22 AM

107. Show us the path to flushing the lot of them

Global Oligarchs in cahoots to steal a country

The do things for one reason - money!

We are in for it if we can't get rid of them.

How will this happen? Half the Congress must be in on it, and
half the Supreme Court as well!

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 07:45 AM

111. Indeed...this is the worst thing anyone has ever done to our Republic.

Elections are or should be sacred...people have to have confidence in elections...and the GOP between their voter suppression and now this horror have done a great disservice to our Republic. May they all burn in hell and more than few wear orange jumpsuits in the near future...recommended.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 08:13 AM

114. sorry

 

Sorry, but dream on..... Fuckump and his crew of shitstains are not going anywhere. They are here for the duration of his term and most likely for an additional term. Depending on the congress makeup, he may even be here serving for life. He is a narcissistic sociopath who lives for this attention, he loves it. He loves when people go against him, so he can jump, scream, tweet how bad everyone else is but him... " the elections is rigged unless I win". "I had the biggest crowd". "My hands and dick are big".....etc.

The case against him needs to be more then it might be or it's possible its..... he has too many congress fucks scared, and again sorry, but congress is just as treasonous as fuckump is.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 09:02 AM

117. Why the high hopes about this subject?

 

Even if trump is convicted, we are still stuck with a republican president with similar political aspirations.

I bet Hillary's emails aren't looking so bad after all.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 09:03 AM

118. K&R

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)


Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 09:14 AM

121. He is not going to resign

 

There is zero chance of that happening.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 09:53 AM

124. God Emperor In Flames.

There's no way his administration continues without murdering millions of people.

Not that that's not on his mind.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 10:30 AM

126. The entire operation of the Republicans taking over was probably

a coup! We all were duped, and I wish someone would start passing out handcuffs and perp-walking people off to prison!

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Response to yuiyoshida (Reply #126)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:47 AM

130. Not me

I wasn't duped. I proudly voted for HRC who ran on the Dem Party Platform highly influenced by Bernie. There is no such thing as purity in the Dem Party. There never was or will be. Those who voted otherwise were nave and foolish. I hope big time they learned the lesson of the election of 2016. When trump goes down, we will be stuck with pence. If pence were to go down, we'd be stuck with ryan. Not matter what, we are totally screwed.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #130)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:14 PM

136. I never said I was duped. I voted the Democratic ticket ...

But the fact that America allowed the fucking Russians to influence our election was indeed something far more than deplorable. And by the way, those that say WE DESERVED THIS SHIT are going to SUFFER along with EVERYONE else in this country.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:03 AM

127. We are rapidly approaching a Goldwater moment.

The jig is (almost) up.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #127)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:43 AM

129. Curious

What's a Goldwater moment?

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #129)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 12:03 PM

134. Barry Goldwater

was the Republican Senator who told Nixon that he was finished. Nixon then resigned rather than be impeached.

Republicans were different then.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:43 AM

128. If only

Our system allowed for a re-do election. We are talking treason here.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 11:49 AM

132. Those of us who absolutely refused to call him President watched as

our beloved country was launched on a dark path using Hitler's playbook from day one. Trump is illegitimate and that will be proven by the facts. Our democracy will survive. The recent speech by my Senator Jeff Merkley reinforces that belief. We will continue to resist.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 04:03 PM

142. I agree with your analysis

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 04:07 PM

143. K&R nt

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 04:17 PM

145. question

if trump was is collusion with the russians, and he is kicked out. does pence automatically become president? wouldn't that make him also guilty with trump? would they hold another election? does clinton become president?

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 04:54 PM

149. Not just because his campaign colluded with a foreign adversary...but also because

he is a lying fraud who BSd his way to the ballot. He lied every 90 seconds and was able to fool enough people.

That's election by fraud.

If you lied to your customers about how your home-made concoction of cat hairball and dust bunnies would cure baldness, the fact that someone believes you for long enough to buy it doesn't mean it's legal, moral, and legit.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 04:58 PM

150. If the FBI "has evidence" to support an argument,

Then it must mean that it's true, and the evidence supports what politicians are claiming it does...

Remember when the FBI had evidence that Clinton had classified material on her server? While that is technically true, how did it turn out in the end? It's way too early to be drawing up the "impeach pence" protest signs. Sorry to pee in your cornflakes, but you know it's true.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #150)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 05:08 PM

153. I was wondering when someone would show up with that kind of Apples and Oranges response

 

I'll respond with the three reasons that is Apples and Oranges that comes to mind first. Already I have thought of two more and I suspect there are dozens but here are the first three.

1. If you have any familiarity at all with classified documents and how they can be accidentally and thus innocently transmitted, you know that this happens all the time and while undesirable, doesn't result in prosecution. You also know that classifications change and it is very possible, as we saw in this case, that the classification becomes more strict after the document has already been transmitted.

2. There is no legitimate reason for three non-elected official members of a non-incumbent Presidential campaign to have contact with high level officials of an adversarial government. Particularly, high level members that are some of the top espionage recruitment members abroad of that adversarial government.

3. There is no legitimate reason for those same three non-elected official members of the non-incumbent Presidential campaign to lie about having ever met with Russian officials during the campaign and then have it come out that they did. This after the Presidential candidate called for, on national television, the adversarial government to perform espionage on his behalf so he could win the election.

Those are just the first three reasons your post is apples and oranges.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #153)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 05:19 PM

155. And I was expecting an "it's different because" reply.

"There's no legitimate reason for three non-elected officials..." isn't the same thing as proving collusion or even treason (as some have called it), but you already know that. The FBI can prove contact, but contact isn't collusion.

I have some familiarity with classified documents, and am also aware that in most cases, "ignorance" isn't considered an acceptable defense, but you know that as well.

Look, I'm not arguing that Clinton intentionally did anything wrong, or that she should have been prosecuted, but going into last summer, the republicans were saying the FBI had proof of classified material, and they were technically right, and look what it got them... nothing.

My post isn't apples and oranges, you just want it to be so it makes your argument look better.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #155)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 09:41 PM

159. You expected it because its patently obvious that its true. That's always true of accusations

 

but even more so in this case.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #159)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 02:27 AM

164. I'm not saying there's not a lot of smoke here,

I'm just not sure how much fire were actually going to get. I haven't seen any actual evidence that's going to get trump removed by a republican congress and I'm not convinced they have "the goods" on him yet.

I don't think the republicans like trump, but there's going to have to be very convincing evidence or they're going to really piss off their voters.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 05:12 PM

154. Y'all we're in a doomsday scenario

We suffered a bloodless catastrophic attack by Russia and now we have Russian assets in charge of two branches of the United States government. It means us has activated a doomsday plan to keep govt running after FBI counterintelligence are executed. And this also means President Obama is still President.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 05:50 PM

157. on jan 20, 2017

 

we went from class to crass and even worse now......geez I hope this whole administration goes down in flames and they take that little weasel ryan with them.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 07:45 PM

158. Proud to be Rec #300!

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 09:44 PM

160. And the scope of their actions likely includes hacking DU and abridging our right to free speech on

election day when the site was shut down by the hack.

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #160)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 10:11 PM

162. I'm not ready to agree yet but I'm now less inclined to think that viewpoint is as we say here

 

"creative speculation". If Putin and Russian intelligence was working with Trump, it's hard to know what is too far-fetched after that.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Mar 23, 2017, 10:37 PM

163. BULLSHIT!!!! Trump... like Bush2 were ALWAYS morally illegitimate presidents!

It's about time Dems started to believe in REAL democratic principles... such as someone REJECTED by the voters SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO "WIN" ELECTIONS.

But as we can see from this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028839729 even progressive Dems could care less... and would rather discuss anything OTHER than democratic principles.

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Response to eniwetok (Reply #163)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 10:42 AM

165. Until you have evidence, it's unofficial. FBI is now saying they have evidence.

 

Sure, we all knew it, but it couldn't be proven.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #165)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:16 PM

166. I don't care about the FBI... I care about DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES...

1: being someone REJECTED by the people in an election should never "win" that election....

2: those representing the minority should never have the power to govern. The Senate is an antidemocratic body where now 18% of the US population gets 52% of the seats.

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Response to eniwetok (Reply #166)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 12:23 PM

167. Democratic principles include due process, innocent until proven guilty and all of those principles.

 

In any case, we have those now.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #167)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 01:53 PM

168. no... those are LEGAL principles....

Look... I FULLY support any investigation into the Trump Junta. My point... which you don't seem to get is Trump isn't illegitimate because of possible/probable Russian collusion BUT BECAUSE HE LOST THE ELECTION. He FAILED to get the Consent Of The Governed which is the basis of morally legitimate government. Our system is ANTIdemocratic at its core... and along with the presidency the GOP control over the Senate is morally illegitimate because Dem Senators represent 33 million more Americans than do the GOP.

In a democratic system no one "wins" elections when they are rejected... and those who represent a minority of the nation should never govern. But we now find our very antidemocratic system is posing an existential threat to programs that WERE democratically enacted.

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Response to eniwetok (Reply #168)

Fri Mar 24, 2017, 02:59 PM

169. Ahh, that point too, yes I agree. nt

 

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