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kpete

(71,900 posts)
Mon Apr 3, 2017, 09:30 AM Apr 2017

NYT: This is not a debatable issue. This is not fake news. This is not a witch hunt. This happened.

Dwindling Odds of Coincidence
Charles M. Blow APRIL 3, 2017




We are still not conclusively able to connect the dots on the question of whether there was any coordination or collusion between members of Donald Trump’s campaign and the Russians who interfered in our election to benefit him, but those dots do continue to multiply at an alarming rate.

First, and we have to keep saying this because this fact keeps getting obscured in the subterfuge of deflection, misdirection and ideological finger-pointing about what has yet to be proven: It is absolutely clear that the Russians did interfere in our election. This is not a debatable issue. This is not fake news. This is not a witch hunt. This happened.

The investigations, rightly, are seeking to figure out exactly how and to what degree, and those questions obviously depend on knowing more about campaign contacts with Russian meddlers.

................

The journalistic caution in me keeps having to write that these could all be coincidences, but the journalistic instinct has learned long ago that coincidence is the albino alligator of political reality: It exists, but is exceedingly rare.


the rest:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/03/opinion/dwindling-odds-of-coincidence.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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NYT: This is not a debatable issue. This is not fake news. This is not a witch hunt. This happened. (Original Post) kpete Apr 2017 OP
It is absolutely clear that the Russians did interfere in our election. Botany Apr 2017 #1
Oh... all those intelligence agencies must be wrong and his is right. DK504 Apr 2017 #21
And the Russians left their fingerprints all over the place Botany Apr 2017 #25
I never believed it when they said Russia didnt affect the vote count. They dont just mess with Amaryllis Apr 2017 #36
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2017 #32
Kick. dalton99a Apr 2017 #2
Monday early AM --Donalds first tweet attacks Hillary over the debates. Wheres his Republican Aides? Sunlei Apr 2017 #3
The burden of proof isn't "conclusive." Cary Apr 2017 #4
Agreed. He refuses to release his taxes, the people have a right to know. KittyWampus Apr 2017 #6
And that's even before an investigation has gotten cranked up gratuitous Apr 2017 #19
So, I don't know where we are in terms of proving a particular case Cary Apr 2017 #20
K&R...👍🏼 spanone Apr 2017 #5
only one sane course of action - invalidate the election and have a revote! NRaleighLiberal Apr 2017 #7
If only Plucketeer Apr 2017 #11
Absolutely! Duppers Apr 2017 #12
There is NO constitutional mechanism for doing this gratuitous Apr 2017 #24
That's simply not going to happen. Warren DeMontague Apr 2017 #40
His tax returns will have the missing dot. ffr Apr 2017 #8
Since the House Intel Committee is unable, the Senate IC must get them from the IRS now.nt Hekate Apr 2017 #29
"It moves from the zealot Mike Pence, to the weasel Paul Ryan to anti-abortion crusader..." JTFrog Apr 2017 #9
I'll take sane ideologues over a lunatic, any day. (nt) Paladin Apr 2017 #14
The two aren't mutually exclusive. CentralMass Apr 2017 #27
They seem to be, right now. (nt) Paladin Apr 2017 #31
facts matter Fast Walker 52 Apr 2017 #10
Charles Blow is a delight as always. lark Apr 2017 #13
I absolutely agree Skittles Apr 2017 #34
Gibbs Rule 39 -- There is no such thing as coincidence. LiberalFighter Apr 2017 #15
LOL! I'm a fan, too. mnhtnbb Apr 2017 #23
It was clear to me on election night Blue_Roses Apr 2017 #16
Bingo!!!! hamsterjill Apr 2017 #17
Wow, Charles, tell us how you really feel... kag Apr 2017 #18
Figure with all the sources and all the leaking, we would see some hard evidence of collusion jmg257 Apr 2017 #22
Order of succession be damned FakeNoose Apr 2017 #26
Yes to your posit. eom sprinkleeninow Apr 2017 #38
Kick forever Hekate Apr 2017 #28
k and r--and the more the orange madman screams and tries to deflect, the more we niyad Apr 2017 #30
What goes around comes around harun Apr 2017 #33
As Malcolm Nance said, "Coincidence requires a lot of planning." nt SunSeeker Apr 2017 #35
kick LaydeeBug Apr 2017 #37
RE AdamJohnson20 Apr 2017 #39

DK504

(3,847 posts)
21. Oh... all those intelligence agencies must be wrong and his is right.
Mon Apr 3, 2017, 11:41 AM
Apr 2017

Oh no....there you go again.

Amaryllis

(9,523 posts)
36. I never believed it when they said Russia didnt affect the vote count. They dont just mess with
Mon Apr 3, 2017, 08:48 PM
Apr 2017

voter reg databases for fun and stop with that.

Response to Botany (Reply #1)

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
3. Monday early AM --Donalds first tweet attacks Hillary over the debates. Wheres his Republican Aides?
Mon Apr 3, 2017, 09:52 AM
Apr 2017
handlers, republicans, your man needs morning handlers!


Cary

(11,746 posts)
4. The burden of proof isn't "conclusive."
Mon Apr 3, 2017, 10:03 AM
Apr 2017

In terms of criminal prosecution, it's beyond a reasonable doubt. For our purposes, here, it's far less. In fact I respectfully suggest that WE, THE PEOPLE have an absolute right to know that our president isn't a traitor and the burden of proof is on Trump and his handlers, or whatever they are.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
19. And that's even before an investigation has gotten cranked up
Mon Apr 3, 2017, 11:25 AM
Apr 2017

I'd say we're past a preponderance of the evidence, and practically at clear and convincing evidence of Russian meddling. Let's get a full-scale investigation going; are there no Republicans in Congress who value the United States over their party? Who think that hiding away the influence of a hostile foreign government is the path to our nation's destruction? Where are the patriotic Republicans who will aggressively investigate, consequences to their own party be damned?

Cary

(11,746 posts)
20. So, I don't know where we are in terms of proving a particular case
Mon Apr 3, 2017, 11:32 AM
Apr 2017

For one thing we don't know what the FBI knows. We only know what has been reported but from what has been reported I think you're correct. There certainly appears to be a growing mountain of evidence of conflicts of interest everywhere and probable impropriety.

Are there any patriotic Republicans? Each and every one of them sold themselves out to opportunism long ago, when they decided that they could make their own reality. All we have, as human beings, are facts and reason. When people will not accept facts and reason then they succumb to evil.

That's ironic, given their claims. But it's true.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
24. There is NO constitutional mechanism for doing this
Mon Apr 3, 2017, 12:07 PM
Apr 2017

Please leave the magical thinking to our Freeperite friends.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
40. That's simply not going to happen.
Tue Apr 4, 2017, 06:03 AM
Apr 2017

The more fucked up the situation gets, the more crucial it is to stick to what is actually in the Constitution.

Ditching the constitution would be a tremendously bad idea.

The remedy here is impeachment or resignation.

ffr

(22,647 posts)
8. His tax returns will have the missing dot.
Mon Apr 3, 2017, 10:17 AM
Apr 2017

Which is why he won't release them. Rosneft deal more than likely at the heart of money dealings. When you get a stake of ownership in something without consideration, there are strings attached.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
9. "It moves from the zealot Mike Pence, to the weasel Paul Ryan to anti-abortion crusader..."
Mon Apr 3, 2017, 10:20 AM
Apr 2017
Polls continue to find a strong appetite for the ultimate remedy: Trump’s impeachment. You would get no resistance from me if it ever came to that. But I also understand the order of succession and that, too, gives me pause.

It moves from the zealot Mike Pence, to the weasel Paul Ryan, to anti-abortion crusader Orrin Hatch, to Rex “Russian Order of Friendship” Tillerson, to the former Hollywood producer Steven Mnuchin, who had to apologize last week for plugging “The Lego Batman Movie,” for which he was an executive producer.

The list goes on and on.

Yes, an administration without Trump would be less of an international embarrassment and exceedingly more predictable, but these men have all cozied up to Trump or were picked by him, so there is little daylight among them on policy.

Then there is the brazenly political, callously calculating school of thought — which is as dangerous as it is interesting — that holds that the severe distaste for sitting-President-Trump will likely be the best liberal motivator for success in the 2018 midterms and the 2020 presidential election. Following this logic, a crippled Trump is better than a vanquished one.


Doesn't seem to be any way we end up but fucked.

lark

(23,003 posts)
13. Charles Blow is a delight as always.
Mon Apr 3, 2017, 10:43 AM
Apr 2017

He's a great journalist and captures the present moment, as well as the angst so many are feeling, so well.

hamsterjill

(15,214 posts)
17. Bingo!!!!
Mon Apr 3, 2017, 11:03 AM
Apr 2017

We all know there was wrongdoing that involved Trump and his campaign. We all know that there are Republicans (Nunes, et al) who are trying to keep the wrongdoing from the public.

It WILL come out sooner or later. The question is how much damage will be done before those facts are out and Trump is impeached AND how the country can move forward after that is done. There is also, of course, the question of how far this wrongdoing stretches within the Republican party, etc.

But Trump and his hit men (and women) WILL eventually go down.

kag

(4,076 posts)
18. Wow, Charles, tell us how you really feel...
Mon Apr 3, 2017, 11:17 AM
Apr 2017
To be sure, Donald Trump is a despicable man and an awful president who deserves whatever he gets. He is crude, a liar, a bully and a cheat. He is vainglorious and vengeful.

It is not clear to me that America — and indeed the world — can survive a full-term Trump presidency.


jmg257

(11,996 posts)
22. Figure with all the sources and all the leaking, we would see some hard evidence of collusion
Mon Apr 3, 2017, 11:41 AM
Apr 2017

soon. Schiff said there was something a couple weeks ago.

FakeNoose

(32,349 posts)
26. Order of succession be damned
Mon Apr 3, 2017, 12:07 PM
Apr 2017

... Order of succession is NO REASON to not impeach Trump.
We have to impeach him and there are multiple reasons for that.

If Trump's impeachment and eventual removal means the next yoyo is up (Pence) we'll go to work on him too.
We'll impeach him if we can because there's a lot evidence that he's in on it too.

But don't ever suggest that we can't do THING #1 because THING #2 will happen.
If we do that then we might as well tear up the Constitution and start over.



Just sayin'


niyad

(112,434 posts)
30. k and r--and the more the orange madman screams and tries to deflect, the more we
Mon Apr 3, 2017, 01:20 PM
Apr 2017

know the investigations are on the correct track.

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