"Understand this: there IS NO large scale business in Russia that's independent of the Putin regime"

[SunSeeker]

That is what Vladimir Kara-Murza just said on Ali Veldhi on MSNBC. Kara-Murza, who Putin tried to kill twice by poisoning, knows what he is talking about.

All this talk of "unwitting" Russian recruits like Carter Page disregards that overarching fact. ALL Russian oligarchs are part of Putin's klepticratic crime family. Those who aren't end up dead or in jail. If you're talking to a Russian oligarch, you're talking to Putin.

[HoneyBadger]

1. So for all purposes, PutinRussia and RussiaPutin

Glad that I drink Irish vodka. Pretty sure that I have zero dealing with Putin.

[SunSeeker]

2. Russian vodka is not the best vodka anyway.

I prefer Grey Goose.

[meow2u3]

4. Personally, I like Sobleski

Polish vodka. (disclaimer: I'm of Polish descent on my father's side)

[SunSeeker]

5. I'd love to to try some!

[Thomas Hurt]

3. government controlled means of production

isn't that (dun, dun, dunnnn) socialism..........

hey but if donnie like the socialist dictator he is good with the Trump leg humpers.

[HoneyBadger]

6. Russia has a sophisticated single payer system

Nothing is ever simple. Who's zooming who?

[SunSeeker]

9. Russia has a sophisticated kleptocracy.

To call Russia's health system a "sophisticated single payer system" is to suggest that it is akin to the single payer systems of France or Denmark. That is simply not the case. Healthcare in Russia is only guaranteed for the oligarchs.

In Putin’s Russia, Universal Health Care Is for All Who Pay
Expectant mothers in Moscow must wait as long as six weeks for ultra-sound scans, up from three days last year. Hospital outpatients pay for blood tests and X-rays that were free 12 months ago. And Marif Alekberov, a 27-year-old fireman with leukemia, is being told to find $23,000 to help fund a bone marrow transplant.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-13/in-russia-universal-health-care-is-for-all-who-can-afford-it

Donald Trump, the U.S. president-elect, and right-wing politicians in Europe may be feting Russian President Vladimir Putin as a strong leader. But the grim reality of Russian provincial state health care often has more in common with Third World countries than a supposed resurgent superpower—and that’s where it exists: 17,500 towns and villages across Russia have no medical infrastructure at all.

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/12/02/dire-russia-health-care-523380.html?amp=1

[HoneyBadger]

10. I definitely have no experience with it, but Wikipedia says differently

It does look like the number of available doctors could lead to wait times for routine care.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Russia

The Constitution of the Russian Federation has provided all citizens the right to free healthcare under Mandatory Medical Insurance since 1996. In 2008, 621,000 doctors and 1.3 million nurses were employed in Russian healthcare. The number of doctors per 10,000 people was 43.8, but only 12.1 in rural areas. The number of general practitioners as a share of the total number of doctors was 1.26 percent. There are about 9.3 beds per thousand population—nearly double the OECD average.

Expenditure on healthcare was 6.5% of Gross Domestic Product, US$957 per person in 2013. About 48% comes from government sources. About 5% of the population, mostly in major cities, have health insurance.

[SunSeeker]

12. Wikipedia does NOT "say differently."

Those old (2008) statistics on the number of nurses and doctors does not mean the people are getting care, particularly since the Putin regime has drastically cut those numbers, as your Wikipedia link itself notes:

Due to the ongoing Russian financial crisis since 2014, major cuts in health spending have resulted in a decline in the quality of service of the state healthcare system. About 40% of basic medical facilities have fewer staff than they are supposed to have, with others being closed down. Waiting times for treatment have increased, and patients have been forced to pay for more services that were previously free.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Russia

Interesting how you didn't post THAT paragraph from your Wikipedia link.

Wikipedia also documents that the life expectancy of Russians is the worst in Europe and is on par with third world countries. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Did you even read the links I provided to you?

You may not have any experience with it, but I have relatives in that part of the world. The Russian healthcare system is an unmitigated disaster for the average Russian. Only oligarchs who can pay are guaranteed healthcare. It should not be described as "single payer."

[HoneyBadger]

15. If Russia is not single payer, what is it then?

[SunSeeker]

16. A kleptocratic mess, basically fee for service. nt

[spanone]

7. that's why donald is so jealous. he'd rather be ceo-in-chief

[SunSeeker]

8. Yep. He loves the Putin leadership model.

Trump obviously thinks democracy is for losers.

[GliderGuider]

11. Of course. Russia is a fully realized Chekist state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekism

Chekism (from Cheka, the first Soviet secret police organization) is a term to describe the situation in the Soviet Union and contemporary Russia, where the secret political police controlled everything in society.

The concept is very hard for Westerners to get their minds around.

[SunSeeker]

13. Correct. Amazing how few Americans understand this. nt

[Ilsa]

14. kick & rec. nt