Just when I was starting to warm up to pit bulls in general,

[frogmarch]

this happened in my town.

Article excerpt:

CHADRON, NE - A woman walking in west Chadron about 11:00 Friday morning was attacked by 5 pit bulls, setting off a tense hour-long standoff between police and the dogs.

Chadron Police Lt Rick Hickstein says a passing motorist saw the woman being attacked, with the dogs taking her to the ground and attacking together as she lay on her back.

The motorist called 911, stopped, and used pepper spray on the dogs...allowing the woman to escape. Hickstein believes the actions of the man, whose name was not released, saved the woman's life.

The dogs then turned on the man, but he was able to get in his pickup before the dogs reached him. Officer Scott DeBock arrived just as the man was entering the pickup and became the new target.

Hickstein and Sergeant Aron Chrisman joined DeBock as 2 of the dogs ran off and the other 3 charged at the officers multiple times with DeBock thwarting one by hitting one of the pit bulls with his taser.

More: http://chadrad.com/newsstory.cfm?story=41220

Holy crap!

[femmocrat]

1. Dangerously irresponsible owner:

From above source:

The owner of the dogs, 35-year old Benjamin Harvey, was cited for multiple violations of Chadron ordinances including 5 counts of Dog At Large, 5 counts of not having city animal licenses with 3 not having immunization shots, and 1 count of violating the kennel license ordinance for having more than 3 dogs.

[WinkyDink]

36. I'm sorry, but only stupidity about this breed keeps the penalty from being a fitting one.

And no, I do not care if anyone tries to defend pitbulls as pets.

I DON'T CARE ABOUT THIS NON-HUMAN SPECIES.

[Cary]

51. Species?

[Hortensis]

68. Pitt bulls, unlike other dogs, often do not signal

aggression. Instead of sending warnings to their owners and others, like flicking the tail to the left, tensing, and all the other signs, they may stand quietly--then attack, 0 to 100 in a second.

Here's another thought. Pit bulls and Rottweilers between them account for half of all deaths-by-dogs of 2-year-olds and younger. It's in the nature of parenting that almost all of them would have had parents close by. Yet the parents could not save their babies from "Daisy" or "Max." Does anyone doubt they tried desperately?

I just see no reason to have a pit bull when there are so few of them and so many other breeds more readily available. Unless the desire is for sending out dangerous vibes. When I was a real estate appraiser, a number of times people, sometimes standing there smiling blandly at me, allowed their dogs to threaten me. No, it wasn't "them," just their dogs. I armed myself with pepper spray, but if I'd ever had to use it the second spray would have been for the owner. For all the bad neighborhoods I sometimes visited and the weird characters I crossed, The only times I felt genuinely in danger of dying in those days, and there were a few, were from dogs.

I'm afraid the motivations, the full lists, not just one, of people who choose these breeds are always in question for me. Don't bother to tell me how sweet she is, I'm sure she normally is. It's her owner I"m wondering about.

[CentralMass]

84. I agree completely.

[snooper2]

95. Aw, you made this species have a sad

Look, he has a tear in his eye

[BSdetect]

2. WTF? How did 5 get loose?

Total horror.

Who needs 5 such dogs?

[Jack-o-Lantern]

3. Who needs any such dogs as those??

[cwydro]

4. And the people that own them are the criminals.

Usually in need of machismo.

Pathetic.

[MichMary]

5. No bad dogs,

just bad owners.

I've known a lot of very nice, cuddly pits. It's wrong to stereotype dogs.

[Drahthaardogs]

16. Bullshit

Genetics matter. I know this very well. You can train around genetics to a degree, but it is always there.


Most people have no business owning these types ( or any aggressive breed) because they are not really up to the requirements. Even fewer have any business breeding them.

[MichMary]

19. I volunteer

at an animal shelter.

I understand about genetics, but I believe there is just as much positive in their genetics--loyalty, protectiveness, etc.--as there is bad. The problem is the people who want them. The dogs have a reputation, and there is no question that they are extremely strong. The pitbull is the living, breathing equivalent of a gun. A lot of the people who get them are--um, compensating.

Right now all but one of the dogs we have are pits or pit mixes. The latest one we got was ABANDONED by his owners, who moved out and left the dog there. Poor thing. The landlord called us to take him in. He is scared and grumpy. I don't wonder why.

We had a couple come in and specifically ask to adopt a pit. The guy went outside to make a phone call, and the woman explained that they were having "family problems" with one set of parents or another. Hmmm . . . Why do you suppose they wanted a pit?

I think it's perfectly acceptable to stereotype pit owners, but not at all acceptable to stereotype the dogs.

[Drahthaardogs]

24. And I have trained

And titled dogs in multiple venues including field trials, hunt tests, and protection work. I have also bred several litters that won breeders awards and I keep company with many dogmen and women who do the same.

I am glad you like some poor neglected pit bull. However, I would like to know how many dogs have you trained to a title? How many litters have you bred? Did you insist new owners test the pups to evaluate your breeding programs? Tell me about your success and tell me about your failures and what you learned from them.


And on edit as someone who is a huge fan of FCI breeding because of the restriction and breed wardens, I must say, what exactly do you find positive about pit bulls genetically speaking? The breed is a cesspool. There is little to no positive genetics in this breed at this time. The few I can think of are catch dogs for hog hunters who breed for a purpose

[MichMary]

25. I haven't,

ever. Not one.

I'm just a dog lover, who has seen lots of pit success stories.

BTW, as with most rescuers, I think breeding should be banned. Just sayin'.

[Drahthaardogs]

26. No offense, but you have a thimble full of dog experience

I respect what you do as a volunteer, but you don't really know what you are talking about.

I guess, that is kind of my point. Big aggressive dogs should be limited to the right people. I have aggressive dogs. I take precautions. I know what they are and what they can do. It is one of the reasons I live in the country.

I kind of agree with you that most people really only want a companion and any shelter dog will do. Bred dogs should be kind of rare and for folks like me who want them to do a job and do it well.

Most people should not own these types of dogs.

[LOL Lib]

69. Kudos to you.

I usually ignore people who claim that pits are like a loaded gun...genetic mutants...blah, blah, blah. We refer to those types as dog Nazis at the clinic. Most of them have zero knowledge of veterinarian medicine or canine behavior. Thankfully there are well educated people who dedicate their lives to helping all dog breeds. It helps to drive down the misinformation and keep backyard breeders in check. Thank you for volunteering at your shelter. Don't let the backyard kennel "experts" discourage you.

[MichMary]

92. Thank you!

I love all dogs, but to tell the truth, I was a bit cautious about pits when I started volunteering, but they won me over. The biggest dog smiles I've ever seen!

[get the red out]

85. If breeding good dogs was banned

There would be nothing but bad. Extremism is what is going wrong in rescue

Sorry for being honest about my unacceptable opinion.

[Idoru]

32. "The breed is a cesspool"

Sayeth the professional breeder.

Please.

[Doremus]

33. If you think your breeder 'credentials' prove anything about pit bulls,

you're wrong. At least to me. I tend to have low regard for people who profit from creatures that have no choice in the matter.

[Drahthaardogs]

44. I train working dogs not pound puppies

And your opinions don't really matter as far as I am concerned

[get the red out]

86. Genetics count, in other breeds

Border Collies, Austrailian Shepherds, herding breeds in general, come with warnings about being genetically geared to be high energy and herd other animals and kids, and can nip when doing so.

If your kid likes hamsters, don't get a Jack Russel, they are hard-wired rodent killing machines.

A lot of people seem to realize that other breeds have been bred for certain activities, and don't see those warnings as a terrible misconception. Pit bulls were developed to fight, not all will be aggressive, not all Border Collies will herd either, but if you don't want the threat of being herded until I correct ours, don't visit our yard. Of course, you won't go to the hospital from a dog wanting to herd you.

I know this post is an invitation for attack. My girl dog did come from a shelter as a puppy, and is a great companion, so long as she has a job, but we learned all we could about her genetics and needs when we got her, since the information about her breed isn't viewed as controversial.

[WinkyDink]

37. Really? How do you feel about "No Bad Cobras" or "No Bad Brown Recluse Spiders"?

[Orrex]

96. I've rescued many brown recluses, and every one of them was an asshole.

[WinkyDink]

38. "It's wrong to stereotype dogs." OFGS. Why? Is the Pitbull Association going to sue me?

[DrDan]

45. And a lot of vicious ones I would guess

[pnwmom]

49. Some breeds have deliberately been bred for aggressiveness, over generations.

Pit bulls are one of these breeds. There are some nice pits, but there are a disproportionate number of not-nice pits, both because of the breeding and how some owners train them.

My nephew has a pit that a friend originally got from a rescue. It had been turned in because of biting someone. They've been working with a professional trainer for months but they still don't trust her around children.

[Drahthaardogs]

94. Why would ANYONE take that risk?

If you cannot trust your dog around your kids, the dog has got to go. No trainer can GUARANTEE that dog won't go off some day. If the dog has an aggressive streak, it can be trained around hopefully.

I don't understand people. How would you feel if your kid is mauled and blinded for life? How about a disfigured face? Killed?

These are big, powerful dogs, with a near perfect set of teeth and a terriers aggressiveness.

[pnwmom]

102. I know I wouldn't have taken the risk. But the dog seemed sweet, and the rescue

assured the new 20-something owner that with proper training the dog could overcome the problem. And all the young dogs at the shelter were some sort of pits! (That's often the case at my Humane Society too.)

[Orrex]

90. Yes, of course.

When a dog is good, it's because dogs are good.

When a dog is bad, it's because humans are bad.

[MichMary]

91. Yup. n/t

[Orrex]

93. That's what I get for not using the sarcasm tag.

[grantcart]

119. Well that kind of makes the point not to have Pit Bulls

How much damage can a golden or a poodle do if they have a bad owner, not much.

Pit Bulls can be raised by really good owners but, obviously, can become lethal with bad owners.

This seems like the best argument to not allow pit bulls, their success is just to dependent on the quality of the owner.

[Docreed2003]

11. Interestingly...

The breed used to be considered a great family dog.

[appleannie1943]

81. Actually they were babysitters for the poor working class.

[appleannie1943]

83. Our vet always said people look at the wrong end of the leash when they claim some breeds are unsafe

Having owned a number of breeds that people fear, I have to agree.

[Lanius]

6. The dog owner needs to have his "pets" taken away and be barred form owning any other dogs.

And the woman who was attacked needs to carry mace or some type of weapon with her. I know we all think we should be safe in our communities, but you never know what a group of dogs will do when they get loose. Dogs are pack animals - they're usually cowardly alone but get brave when in groups. Kind of like Republicans.

[Mariana]

8. The owner should spend some time in jail.

He violated multiple laws before this attack took place. Those laws are in place to prevent this sort of thing from happening. The dogs should be put to sleep because they are dangerous.

[Orrex]

100. I've often suggested...

That when a dog injures or kills someone, the dog's owner should be held accountable as if she had inflicted the injury herself.

[meadowlark5]

34. I thought the charges were pretty light considering what happened

Why isn't he being charged with the assault his dogs perpetrated on the woman?

[ProudLib72]

7. It was a pack

It could have been a pack of any kind of dog that did this. If you look at the statistics for dogs biting humans, the number one worst dog breed is the dachshund. A pack of dachshunds, though, would probably not get this attention. Moreover, how many people hoard dachshunds?

The real problem is that bad people are allowed to collect packs of pit bulls and mistreat them. Five dogs? Really? I could see two, maybe three. After that you have to question why someone would be hoarding this specific breed. Does that make him feel tougher? If it's all about the owner feeling somehow better about himself instead of loving the dogs, then you have a problem.

This reminds me of the last pit I met. Last week I took my dogs out to the park. We were walking around and crossed paths with a pit. One of my dogs (who is a "sniffer&quot insisted on putting her nose up the pit's butt. That pit was frightened out of its mind. I went over and pet the pit to reassure it. The pit just lay down and looked at me with a pitiful gaze.

[DrDan]

46. A pack of dachshunds would do the same damage as a pack of pit bulls?

Get real

[ProudLib72]

50. Forget it, your post is not worth the reply

[DrDan]

60. Yet you replied

[ronnie624]

73. There is no rational defense for your position on this issue,

hence your ridiculous reply.

[ProudLib72]

99. Ok mr logician

What exactly is it that is not rational?

1. someone with 5 pits is not hoarding?
2. small dog attacks do not receive the same attention as pit attacks?
3. thugs like to collect pits because it makes them look tough?

Point out the flaw.

edit: Here is one dachshund article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2254479/Sausage-dogs-are-the-most-aggressive-dogs.html

They may be small, but new research found that one in five dachshunds have bitten or tried to bite strangers, and a similar number have attacked other dogs; one in 12 have snapped at their owners.

Known as sausage dogs for their elongated bodies, dachshunds have not, until now, had a fearsome reputation, although they were originally bred to hunt badgers in their setts.

However, they topped a list of 33 breeds which were rated for their aggression, after academics analysed the behaviour of thousands of dogs.

[ronnie624]

101. A dachshund snapped at its owner??

You win.

[ProudLib72]

103. Still waiting

For you, Mr Logician, to point out the flaw in my original post. And waiting, waiting, waiting....

Nothing?

Just want to deride me for posting facts about the aggression of small dogs?

[ronnie624]

104. Dachshunds don't tear people apart.

There is really no need to point out the flaws in your view. Rational thinkers already see them. Those who cannot see the flaws, are essentially unreachable.

[ProudLib72]

105. You have major reading comprehesion problems

Sorry, but you just can't read. I'm done with you.

[ronnie624]

106. I can't read?

You think that is a defense of your absurd view?

[ProudLib72]

108. Prove me wrong then READ CAREFULLY

Prove these points wrong if you can:

1. Small dogs are just as aggressive if not more so than pits. Notice that I never ever said that they are more dangerous than pits.

2. The people who chose to own five pits are usually not the right kind of person to own the breed. They want the dogs just to make themselves look tough.

[ronnie624]

111. I have to concede, they are indeed points.

The problem with your line if reasoning, is that they are completely irrelevant.

Most of the pit bull owners I've known are basically good people, but they are exceedingly ignorant about biology and selective breeding, and hopelessly blinded by emotionalism over their precious.

[ProudLib72]

113. Not irrelevant

You hear about pit attacks because pits cause damage and can kill. However, all dogs, even the small (seemingly harmless) ones can be aggressive. Labeling pits as particularly aggressive is dangerous because it discounts the fact that owners are, to a great extent, responsible for their behavior. That leads to my second point which is that a lot of the people who get pits want them because of their reputation. Pits make their owners look tough. Combine a dog that can easily maim or kill with a person who wants to promote that quality in their dog and you have a recipe for disaster.

My point is that a consensus view of a certain breed can be as dangerous as the breed itself.

[Manly_Scream]

112. The woman in the OP *WOULD HAVE DIED*

Had a man with pepper spray, not dropped
what he was doing, and defended her.

*That's* why this story got so much attention, not over some "pitbull bias" conspiracy, or anyone favoring small dogs.

Nobody gives a shit about small dogs being assholes because, they are not the ones maiming or killing people.

[ProudLib72]

114. Then legislate against labs

Labs kill! http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/boy-4-killed-by-family-labrador-in-horror-attack-20160817

You just don't get it. All dogs can (and do) attack. That is all I am saying. Your argument seems to be that we ought to let small dogs get away with it because they cannot kill someone. That is absurd. Look to the source of the problem: owners.

[Manly_Scream]

115. My "arguement" is

Human life is more valuable than dog life, and shouldn't be negotiable, in the name of "fairness" to a fucking dog.

Know what would happen if a small dog attacked me? It would get kicked in the ribs (hard).

Which is why it doesn't happen.

Labs do not have the pattern that pit bulls have. You acknowledged that yourself, with stats you posted. This isn't about "one" death or traumatic mauling. This is a pattern.

Not every violent pitbull had an owner who was some dog-fighter or criminal or who abused the dog. What about people who tried to socialize the dog, and attempts failed ending in someone else mauled and in medical debt?

What about owners who kept the dogs fenced in, and cared for on their own property and they STILL decided to dig under the fence and terrorize the neighboorhood?

A five-year-old girl was mauled this weekend. It was her family's dog.

Of course the owners are responsible and deserve the full extent of consequences, but legistlative measures on the breed isn't about "punishing" the dog.

It's about prevention of the next kid being in the hospital or dying horribly.

I don't want to knock down your door and take your precious pitbull away from you, or have some mass execution of pits. If they did nothing wrong, they should be left alone.

But something's gotta give here. If "a dog is a dog" and all sweetness and light, why should it matter if they are bred out of existence?

[ProudLib72]

116. This argument will never end

I think breed specific legislation helps perpetuate the problem because it promotes the view of all pits a vicious killers. Having said that, I think the dogs in the article should be put down. In fact, part of my original post was that five pits make a pack and a pack mentality is to gang up on victims. Basically, these dogs were not your average family pets. Something else was going on. Who the hell owns five pits?

Once and for all, my argument is this: There was more to this particular story than the breed of the dogs. A knee jerk reaction calling for banning of an particular breed is self defeating in that it creates a mystique of "vicious dog" that certain people seem drawn to. Those people (and I believe this to be the case for the owner in the article) mistreat these dogs so that they become more aggressive. That mistreatment might be through beating, but it might just be through lack of socialization (chained up in the yard for days on end without human contact).

If a dog of any breed is aggressive and dangerous, then I have absolutely no issue with putting it down. But I do not believe we should condemn every member of that particular breed.

[Manly_Scream]

53. How about stats for dogs KILLING humans?

That's all one needs to be concerned about.

All animals can bite.

[ProudLib72]

62. Pits are number one

Then rotties. link: http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2016.php

31 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2016. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 900 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 71% (22) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population.2
Together, pit bulls (22) and rottweilers (2), the second most lethal dog breed, accounted for 77% of the total recorded deaths in 2016. This same combination also accounted for 76% of all fatal attacks during the 12-year period of 2005 to 2016.
The breakdown between these two breeds is substantial over this 12-year period. From 2005 to 2016, pit bulls killed 254 Americans, about one citizen every 17 days, versus rottweilers, which killed 43, a citizen every 102 days (Related graph).
In 2016, the combination of pit bulls (22), their close cousins, American bulldogs (2), and rottweilers (2) contributed to 84% (26) of all dog bite-related fatalities. Both American bulldog cases involved dogs acquired in Miami-Dade County, Florida.
Labradors and their mixes contributed to 3 deaths in 2016, followed by 6 breeds, each with 2 deaths: American bulldog, Belgian malinois, doberman pinscher, German shepherd, mixed-breed, rottweiler and 2 cases with unreleased breed data.

[anneboleyn]

64. So Pit bulls are responsible for 75% of human deaths from bites.That's enough. Ban the breed

The breed should be banned as it is in other countries. Those statistics are very clear, and VERY high. I am so tired of the pit bull fixation (I don't get it at all) and why people who are determined to like them argue that small dogs bite toooooooo! Of course they can bite. Many animals bite. But we have ONE BREED that for the past decade (and I suspect much longer) has been responsible for 3/4 of human deaths from dog bites. Why is this okay?!

[Manly_Scream]

71. Why is it okay, you ask?

Because so many folks have a "Mr Bobo" or an "Issaboo" whose just the sweetest, most loving-est little thing evvver, who wouldn't hurt a fly and that's all that matters!

I really love to see folks like this on these court shows where they're getting sued for 5,000 simoleons because their precious severely injured and scarred someone and/or their child for life.


When they get the chance to defend themselves, what do they say?

"Pffft! Mr. Bobo IS A DOG. *Of course* he bit her kid. You don't pet a strange dog! And her little brat breathed on him the wrong way. He was triggered!"

Oh, but you just spent 30 minutes telling us how Mr. Bobo loves everyone, all children and is always zen with the world.

[janterry]

88. Two confounds

about the data is the popularity of pit bulls among owners that want dogs that can be difficult. There are other dogs that are also considered difficult to train (and potentially dangerous) that are nowhere near as popular - within that same population. This skews the data.

Owners of pit bulls are more likely to want their dog to be protective of them (and potentially dangerous).

I'm not disputing the idea that there needs to be some intervention. I'm just saying that data needs to be evaluated carefully in order to make a good decision. It's not clear from that data that pit bulls are the problem (or, perhaps, the only problem). For instance, if those same owners started to breed/purchase other potentially dangerous dogs - well, would we get the same results?

I lived in FL for many years and pit bulls were very popular, especially among my clients (often folks with limited means, limited income, and a propensity for violence/crime). The pits were prized for their fighting ability and that's why they were obtained. The owners wanted them to fight - and sometimes encouraged it.

If we banned pits, they would find another breed to champion.

Anyway, I'm okay with intervention - I just want to put out there that the data has some very clear confounds that should be part of the conversation.

[ProudLib72]

65. Further on in the article

it says that most of the fatalities were children 9 and under.

So think about that for a minute. 31 fatalities from dogs. Compare that to people getting run over or accidentally shot. The likely hood of being attacked and killed is very small. I'm not saying that we should just ignore the fact that there are vicious dogs. I am saying that the fear is disproportionate to the reality. Breed specific legislation does nothing but make the bad guys want to have the "dangerous" breeds to show how tough they are. Those dogs get loose and attack someone. Articles are written about it. More breed specific legislation is passed. The cycle continues.

Think about this: Out of the 49 dogs seized from Michael Vick, 47 were saved and rehabilitated. Only one was put down due to aggression issues. One other was put down due to injuries. link:http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129989424

[anneboleyn]

66. So, b/c children died pit bulls aren't so bad?! The logic escapes me. Sorry, the breed needs

to be banned. Of course some idiots will still acquire aggressive dogs but the explosion in "I love pit bulls" madness has led to these aggressive dogs being in areas they should NOT be in (cramped in small apartments and then let outside where children are playing -- it happens all the time in cities). Our neighborhood, upper middle class and suburban, banned the dogs after multiple pit bull attacks occurred on two elderly residents and on another resident who was out in her yard with her own dog. The dogs got loose from their "responsible owner" and attacked the woman and very nearly killed her dog. The other pit bulls dug a huge hole out of their own yard and ran to our neighborhood after attacking over animals (possibly killing a pet cat) and attacked the elderly residents who were in their driveway. This shit SUCKS for the responsible people.

I have worked with horses for years, and I can say that there are many people who have no business being involved with horses. In fact because of the explosion of poor "internet" trainers who use quick-fix gimmicks, pay websites that show edited videos of horses that are suddenly "fixed," and their refusal to tell people that horses can be DANGEROUS, take daily work, and need patient training, and that buying a "pretty" unseen horse over the Internet for one's kid who has never ridden the horse and barely ridden in general is a hideous mistake, the horse world has become VERY dangerous. It makes me sick.

[ProudLib72]

67. Huh?

Children under 9 are more susceptible to being attacked for a number of reasons: They are smaller and less intimidating to dogs, so the dogs don't view them as dominant; they want to grab and play with dogs who are unfamiliar; they are unpredictable and make dogs anxious. Not saying that children under 9 should be attacked. I'm just pointing out why they were attacked.

Obviously, you did not read the last part of my previous post about Michael Vick's dogs.

[snooper2]

98. You going to ban these too?

how about these?






PIT BULL THREAD

[Manly_Scream]

110. If those dogs killed people at the same rate as pits.

Then yes, ban them.

But they don't: so it's a non-issue.

Amazing how so many people here value large dog companinonship over human life.

[butdiduvote]

9. Pit bulls scare me.

Whether that fear is grounded in reality is another matter, but I get tired ot people acting like my apprehension around pit bulls is basically equivalent to hating black people or gay people. I don't want to ban them, I just don't want to be shamed for not feeling safe around them. I actually stopped volunteering at the animal shelter because most of the dogs were pits, and I was always anxious while I was there. And let's face it. Chihuahuas may be more likely to bite me, but they're not more likely to kill me. There are also pit bulls and then there are PIT BULLS. I'm okay around the smaller ones, but the huge, muscular ones who could undoubtedly kill me if they attacked make me feel very nervous.

[MichMary]

20. Well,

any large dog could. That includes boxers, labs, Saint Bernards, golden retrievers, huskies, . . .

Chihuahuas, poms, shih tzus can viciously bite, also, but as long as you are stronger, they won't inflict the damage that ANY large dog will.

[butdiduvote]

21. Yeah, of course.

But people love to shame those of us uncomfortable around a specific breed by telling us about that one chihuahua or shih tzu they had one time who bit everyone.

[Stuart G]

10. A good friend of mine has had pit bulls...2 in the past...and one now.

They were trained well, and never bit me..never...

All three that I have known, have been, and are ...nice people. One..jumped on me, just to say hello..but that was not an attack, it was just hello....since then, he learned not to do this...:

[Manly_Scream]

52. Big whoop.

You are/were the owners "good friend", so by extension you're the dogs' friend.

What about people they don't know or like?

People out and about minding their business, nowhere *near* the owners' property yet get attacked by these dogs?

I'm not saying your friends dogs specifically would've attacked random people, but what of the other cases?

[Stuart G]

63. From what I can tell, they do not attack random people..

My friend has never told me of the dogs attacking, biting anyone..

[Major Nikon]

12. They couldn't have been pitbulls

Probably pomeranians or labs. Maybe full sized poodles.

Definitely not pitbulls.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

30. No such thing as a pit bull

The two greatest mysteries in the world: where do elephants go to die and what is a pit bull.

Nobody can tell what a pit bull is. Not the owners. And not people who run pit bull rescues (a breed that doesn't exist - like the mafia )

[Major Nikon]

35. Even if the WERE pitbulls (and they weren't)...

It wouldn't have mattered anyway, because the same thing would have happened if the same irresponsible owner had pomeranians instead.

[Calculating]

13. Quit with all the generalizing about pit bulls and their owners

It's as bad as the conservatives who go and say "SEE! I told ya Muslims are trouble" whenever there's a terror attack.

[WinkyDink]

39. You DO know that one species is non-human, right? And that the human species can post whatever the

hell we want?

[Manly_Scream]

59. Bruh, only TRUE Progressives

Fight for Pitbull Rights.

Think of all the pitbulls who could be life-saving neurosurgeons, if it weren't for them getting turned down from jobs once the privelaged bipedal employer finds out who they are.

All the poor pitbull kids who are bullied and left out at school, further reinforcing that they will never make it in this world and should just "give up".

The pitbulls whose votes are suppressed, time and time again.

The pitbulls who must forever stay in the closet masquerading as a people, in order to make it in life.

Why, one day if we fight really hard enough, we may even have a Pitbull President! Because wasn't that President Obama's goal afterall?

To open that window of opportunity to fucking pitbulls?

Check your bipedal primate privelage!

[ronnie624]

74. Pit bull owners are, one and all, very silly people. n/t

[CrispyQ]

14. When I was a kid, Doberman's were the bad, scary dogs.

Sometime after that, it was German Shepard's. Now it's Pit Bulls. It's not the dog. It's the owner.

[Drahthaardogs]

31. It's the dog, it's the owner, and it's irresponsible breeding

The perfect trifecta that has turned a dog breed into a Menace.

[WinkyDink]

40. Plurals don't take apostrophes. Thanks.

[MineralMan]

15. Dogs generally reflect the personality of their owners.

If you meet a growling pit bull that looks ready to attack, take a look at the owner of that dog, once you're in a safe place. Odds are you shouldn't trust that person, either. Nice people have nice dogs. Evil dogs are generally owned by angry, mean people. I have two dogs, one a beagle and the other a beagle basset. Both are friendly, great with children and completely harmless to every living thing.

We walk them every day around our neighborhood, and the children come out to pet them. However, there are a couple of routes we don't take them on. In both cases, that's because there is an aggressive dog on those routes. In both cases, too, the owners of those dogs are assholes.

The big problem is that you don't always know who the owner of a dog is, so it can be hard to assess the dog. That's why we stick to our regular dog-walking routes, where we know the dogs and their owners. That works fine.

At leash-free dog parks, most people who bring their dogs don't bring aggressive dogs to the parks. There is one, nearby, though, that always seems to have an aggressive dog or two in it. Once I encountered their owners, I understood why. We don't visit that dog park any more.

[milestogo]

17. My dog is kind of a slut.

So what does that say about me?

[MineralMan]

18. I don't know that it says anything about you, really.

Our dogs have been neutered and don't appear to have much interest in slutty behavior. Maybe that's an issue.

[ProudLib72]

23. He he

My rottie is stubborn and complains a lot, just like me.

[roamer65]

55. I'm sorry but...LMAO.

[ronnie624]

75. Pit bulls have been selectively bred,

to heighten extreme characteristics of strength, tenacity and aggression. Biology makes them much more likely to attack than other breeds. Lots of basically good people have been surprised

They latch on, with the strongest jaws of any dog breed, and strenuously shake their powerful, densely muscled bodies, in an attempt to rend and tear loose large chunks of flesh from their victims. They are extremely tenacious, and will eventually cut an artery if they are not stopped.

Anyone who owns a dog like that, is a very irrational person, who cannot be persuaded with sound logic. It's just that simple.

[Lurks Often]

22. A list of dog attacks, including breed 1887-2016

I've spent 30+ years around dogs and the pit bulls I've met at the shelter/rescue have been some of the sweetest, gentlest, most loving dogs I've ever met despite coming from situations that would given them every right to hate people.

I've spent 2 1/2 years volunteering at a shelter/rescue and in that time somewhere between 30-50 pit bulls have come through and only 2 of them made me cautious. One was so terrified of people that she cowered in a corner and would defensively growl to keep people away from her. After some time, socialization and caring, she got much better and was later adopted by a volunteer. The other was a male who had been rescued from a house fire by the fire department and I suspect they were perhaps less then gentle with him, which is understandable given the circumstances. He was fine with the female volunteers, but disliked many of the male volunteers, probably due to the circumstances.

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States#Fatalities_reported_in_2016

Pit bull attacks started to rise around 2003. Looking at the list any number of other breeds, many well liked and common, have caused deaths, either intentionally or unintentionally (a Golden Retriever dragged a small child by the scarf, choking her to death). Looking at the list you see deaths attributed to any of the following breeds: pit bull, Rottweiler, German Shepherd, Great Dane and other mastiff breeds, St. Bernard, Huskies and Malamutes, Golden & Labrador retrievers, Collies, Doberman Pinscher, Boston Terrier, Jack Russell, Pomeranian, Newfoundland, mixed breeds and mutts.

My own view is that pit bulls (which is a generic term covering at least 3 breeds) started to be purchased and bred both by people in the criminal culture and those on the fringe of the criminal culture and the resurgence of dog fighting. Breeding and training the breed for aggressiveness has increased the possibility of attacks.

Certainly any pit bull who is vicious, has repeatedly attacked people without cause or intentionally caused the death of a person should be put down, but that applies to any dog, regardless of breed.

[avebury]

27. I have come to believe that a ban on pit bulls might

not be a bad thing. There are a lot of pit bulls in the area that I live in. I walk my 12 lb chihuahua 2 to 3 times a day and I make sure that I take a substantial stick with me every time we walk because some of these pits are flat out dangerous. There have been different occcaisions where a pit from one of the different properties has gotten loose and came after my dog. Luckily, each time, someone from each of the home has been around to lunge after their dog. Without intervention in each of the incidents my dog would have been injured or killed. I managed to use my stick as a barrier to prevent a dog from making harming my dog. But, had there not been an owner present, I would not hesitate to hit an attacking dog as hard as I could. I no longer feel comfortable with pits.

[Warpy]

28. All feral or semi feral dogs in packs are a menace

The only difference when it's pit bulls is that the dogs are going to do a lot more damage with those big jaws.

Here, as usual, the problem isn't the dogs as much as it is the lamebrained owner who couldn't be bothered to keep them safely confined or even get them regular vet care including their immunizations.

I hope the dumbass doesn't get those dogs back unless he puts in a secure dog run and ponies up the cash for the vet care, as well as all the impound fees.

The guy in the pickup is a hero. Hope he starts carrying a baseball bat in it from now on.

[Mariana]

107. No one should get those dogs.

They've demonstrated that they are dangerous and therefore they should be put to sleep.

[luvMIdog]

29. Dogs can have issues with their brain and mental illnesses just like humans

Their brain is made of meat just like ours is . A dog with mental issues that has big teeth is a problem. It is ultimately the responsibility of the pet owner to ensure their pets do not get out and roam free to where they can harm others.
I had 2 large friendly chocolate labs. Even though my labs were friendly I had workmen put in flat rock all around and under the wooden fence in my back yard. No digging out OR in. One day I discovered I was grateful I had taken those measures. A very large pit bull was loose and it wanted to get in my back yard and get at my dogs. That pit was frenzied trying to dig his way into my yard. I watched him for TWO HOURS going all around the perimeter of my yard trying to dig in to get at my dogs. I had called animal control which of course is so short staffed they may never show up. He tried for 2 hours but kept encountering rock he could not dig through.
My point is this . If you have an animal that COULD hurt humans or other pets then it is your responsibility to make sure that animal can't get out and roam. Having done the responsible thing ended up protecting my large dogs from a roaming pit that wanted to fight them as well as preventing my dogs from getting out and running the neighborhood. If one cannot afford to provide good strong fencing and other things needed to contain your animal within your own yard then perhaps one should not get an animal.
Zoo owners have to ensure their animals that could be dangerous do not get out. Pet owners should have to do the same.

[WinkyDink]

41. I'm sure this entire pack had "mental issues." *sarcasm* I'm sure the owner does. *NOT sarcasm*

[luvMIdog]

42. I'm sorry I don't understand your response to what I wrote

[ecstatic]

43. Wow! It's interesting to learn how quickly they recovered after the pepper spray

I too keep pepper spray in my car, and now I see that any pit bull interventions would have to be from the safety of my car or very close by! Wow!

[Mosby]

61. I walk my dog a lot

So I carry a spray that I bought at a sporting good store, it's pepper spray AND mace.

Part of the benefit of the mace is that it doesn't have to be aimed very well, pepper spray alone has to hit the eyes or nose to be effective. The mace is vaporous, so aim is not that important.

[ecstatic]

78. I didn't know that. Thanks. nt

[pnwmom]

47. Yeah, one of my dogs just got attacked by one.

It was at a dog park with a dog walker who had several other dogs. Fortunately, the dog was wearing a muzzle, but he pinned my dog down and terrified him.

Another pit bull, along with a German Shepherd, attacked my other dog a few years ago, and it cost us $900 for emergency vet bills.

[womanofthehills]

48. My dog got attacked by two pits that belong to a neighbor

The dogs dug under my fence and attacked my dog on his own porch. I came out screaming and they ran.

[leftyladyfrommo]

56. There was a case where 2 pits dug under

a fence, then dug under the kennel in the back yard. Then we're able to get into the house thru the doggy door and attack the 2 dogs that lived in the house.

You can argue the pros and cons all day long but the bottom line is that almost all the fatal dog attacks are pits or pit crosses. Many pits that are not people aggressive are dog aggressive.

I don't believe in breed bans but I do think owners of pits and mastiffs ,rottweilers, preso de canarios , and all those breeds and breed crosses that have been bred for aggression
need to be held to a much higher standard of safety.

Not that it will help all the kids that get attacked in their own homes or in a relative's home by dogs that were just big babies.

[Johnny2X2X]

54. Pits are the greatest breed

I will never own another breed. Absolutely the best dog to own. So easy to train, so loving and eager to please. And they are hilarious and have a great sense of humor.

Our latest rescue is the most loving dog I've ever been around. She loves children and I trust her before any dog I know around babies.

Owning a pit bull is like any other dog except without all the hassle. Pits won't destroy your house when you are gone, they won't bark excessively, they won't dig in your yard, they aren't prone to running away, you can house break them in a day or two. Their entire being is about one thing, pleasing their owners. They are generally very sensitive and have their feelings hurt easily if you yell.

All that being said, their loyalty and eagerness to please are what is used to turn them into weapons. It's sickening what bad owners do to these naturally docile and loving animals. And not even bad people, but just ignorant owners can fail a dog and make them dangerous. Your dog should know their place in the pack, if they do you will have no problems regardless of the breed.

[roamer65]

57. Dogs are much like our children.

They are often a mirror image of us. For better or quite often for worse.

[The Mouth]

120. I would prefer the company of the worst bred and ill mannered pit (or any other dog)

to the company of any 'human' who would try to ban them. They should, however, be registered and only allowed to people who are willing to train them, and neutered (I'd prefer to neuter the banners, also, preferably sans anesthesia) with owners required to have a significant liability policy in force

[SomethingNew]

58. I know it won't change anyone's mind but

I'm convinced the people who hate all pits and want them banned are not dog people at all. I've known more mean labs than mean pits (and I'm a dyed in the wool lab person). My dad has a pit mix that is the sweetest, most loving dog you could ever hoe to meet. Raise your voice at him and he wets himself. On my daily route I take with my lab, there is a yard with a pit. She's never even barked at us. My lab always sticks his head through the fence to say hi and I reach over to give her a scratch before we continue on.

[Manly_Scream]

70. If by "not a dog person"

You mean we don't believe dogs are greater than or equal to fellow humans, then you're right.

Though I consider myself a "pet person" (I prefer rabbits, with cats and dogs being close second. I love interacting with most furry animals) and I have, interacted with friendly docile pitbulls.

But I care more about maintaining the safety of people (especially children).

So, some of us get irritated when the Racheal Rays of the world will sob over the pitbulls' "reputation" and "lack of justice" when they seem to not give a shit about the prepubescent child that got mauled to death by one.

Someone is bound to point out how the subject of the OP survived.

Yeah because of an ARMED and brave Good Samaritan. Had he not been there, she would've died, and the tone of these "But Muh Pit!" posts would be exactly the same, I'm sure.

Because I've seen it other forums.

"Well, MY Mr. Bobo luuuurves me and my kids! He's a sweetheart, goodness and light and Jesus reincarnate, so DON'T YOU DARE stereotype these majestic breeds! It's no better than hating black people!"

So yeah, I like dogs, and most dogs like me. I just see the importance of putting human life above an animal's.

For fuck's sake, one of these posts here suggests that the person who owned these dogs, get them back "only if blah blah blah"

FUCK NO, those dogs will be destroyed (as they should) and the owner gets the book thrown at him.

I don't think anyone wants to knock down one's door Gestapo-style and take their dog away. But we may further prevent more deaths by mixing the breed out of existence.

[JHan]

72. A dog has certain traits because those traits were selectively chosen - the problem is us.

Pit bulls are not a wild animal. Whatever traits they express have been bred into them by humans. At one point their reputation was that of loyal, friendly family dog, but around the early 2000's they became associated with criminals - and used for dogfighting. It is the desire for macho dogs that changed the reputation of a once docile breed.

We thoughtlessly breed pets so certain traits are emphasized, or physical characteristics, often without caring about the well being of the animal or the possible medical issues that may arise as a result of our choices.

Banning the pitbull won't solve the problem. Owners who want an aggressive dog will just develop aggressive traits in another breed and we'll be having this same conversation ... again.

[napi21]

77. I'm a dog lover and I don't believe in damning and entire breed, but...2 days ago

here in Ga. a 5 year old little girl was attacked by 2 pits that belonged to her family. She was raised with them in their house. no one understands what happened or why the dogs attacked her. She was flown to the children's hospital in Atlanta. The dogs have been euthanized.

http://www.ajc.com/news/local/pit-bulls-attack-injure-year-old-girl-home/hX7hXd407lsDDV5UBj7FgN/

I used to think the problems with pits were created by the way the owners trained them. After so many owners or members of their own household have been attacked without provocation, I'm losing my argument to the people who blame it on traits of the breed.

[radical noodle]

82. Do you know the family?

There's no way to know if the family had trained and treated the dogs responsibly unless you do.

I've known kids who were injured, some badly, by family dogs that were not pitties.

[napi21]

117. No I don't know them. The attack happened about 1/2hr from me. I guess it's possible

that the little girl was tormenting the dogs. I've seen the tamest dog growl and snap a some kid who was pulling it's tail, hitting it, and in one case trying to put her hand down the dogs throat! I've never seen a dog actually bite though.

I just feel very bad for the little girl, and also for the dogs who are now gone.

[radical noodle]

118. I tend to be skeptical

because I've known people whose family dog attacked the child. In most of the cases the child startled the dog or did something to the dog to cause it. Whatever the reason though, it is terrible for the little girl and the dogs that will die for it.

The real problem with breed-specific legislation is that it punishes people and dogs who do not deserve it.

I have a friend who fostered (and later adopted) a pittie that had been horribly mistreated and starved, was locked in a basement for days with no food or water and had a terrible skin problem that required daily treatments for weeks on end. Still, that little pittie turned out to be a terrific dog. She loved people and played with such joy that no one could ever look at her and say "ban all dogs like this."

[appleannie1943]

79. Why was a pack of dogs running loose in the first place? Any pack of dogs will do that, no matter

the breed. Their pack mentality will take over. It is a problem people living in the country have when idiots drop their dogs off along a country road. They survive by forming packs. Anything with meat on their bones becomes prey.

[radical noodle]

80. Pitbulls are great dogs

owners are responsible for this sort of behavior. They used to be called Nanny dogs because they were such good dogs for children. Sweet with the kids, but protective if need be.

[Jim Beard]

87. Everyone of them needs the needle. I was visiting my 91 year old mother and we had gone out to

eat dinner. When we returned. we were confronted by what looked like a Border Collie cross and a Pit Bull. I recognized the Pit and did my best to get my mom in the house before anything happened. Thank she can't see very well and thought they were just dogs and they could be run off. I tried it and they jumped back but it really didn't slow down.

I had to defend my very helpless mother and myself. I got her in the house and called the cops.

Those that defend them had better be aware of me if I ever meet you because I am not one of those nice and sweet defenders of these muderous creatures.

[democratisphere]

89. Pit Bulls and mixed breeds of pit bulls can be exceptional pets and companions.

Who would allow these dogs to run loose? Where the hell is their
owner(s)? How were they raised? Could they be fighting dogs that somehow got loose? Very bad humans create very bad dogs. What is the rest of the story? Glad everyone survived and was safe.

[retrowire]

97. It's not the pit bulls fault

It's the pack mentalities fault.

Great Danes are some of the gentlest breeds.

And there was a story last week about how 2 or 3 of them chased and mailed a jogger.

That was just the hunting drive triggered in them, and in a pack, that's multiplied.

[Bayard]

109. I learned something new last week

While reading about Great Pyrenees, and their tendency to escape and roam. We were having a real problem with one of ours (we have two that were rescues). It said that GP's were bred for hundreds of years (very old breed) to protect their herds over substantial amounts of pasture lands. So roaming is very ingrained in them. We had to go back and make all of our fencing 6 ft. tall over the couple acres the pupsters are allowed to roam, and anchor the bottom. What was a surprise, is the article said it's a bad idea to walk a GP around your neighborhood because then they will consider your neighborhood as their turf, that needs to be patroled and protected. I'm thinking some dog attacks may fall in that same category.

Now, Great Pyr's are the quintessential gentle giant. Their job is to warn their master about a danger to the flock by barking. A lot. At anything that they think does not belong in their assigned area. About the only thing they would ever attack is a wolf. But because of their size, and big deep bark, most people are intimidated if they don't know the breed. My two weigh in at 90 and 110 pounds. That's exactly what I need on my little farm in the country.




The guy on the left here had to be shaved down completely when we got him. He came from a very bad situation. He also had open wounds around his neck where the people had tied him with a prong collar. He kept escaping.

I have, however, been snapped at on occasion by our Miniature Dachshund when I tried to drag him out from under the bed covers so I could get in. Any other time, he's a doll baby.