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yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 11:47 AM Apr 2017

Hillary Clinton says misogyny played a role in her loss. Research suggests she might be right.

Source: Washington Post, by Amber Phillips

In her first interview since November about November, here's how Hillary Clinton diagnosed her loss to Donald Trump: “Certainly, misogyny played a role. I mean, that just has to be admitted. And why and what the underlying reasons were is what I'm trying to parse out myself.”

*****

We'll probably never know whether voters' prejudice against a female potential president contributed to Clinton's loss — or if it did, to what degree. But we do know that research has clearly demonstrated that voters hold female politicians to a different standard (read: double) from their male counterparts.

As I wrote a month before the presidential election, research from the nonpartisan Barbara Lee Family Foundation, which studies women in politics, found that women can't just be themselves when they run for office. They constantly have to contemplate what their looks, clothes and smile (whether they smile) project to voters, in a way men don't.

Take for instance the foundation's research that voters care whether their female politicians are likable, an attribute that is not something they need from their male political leaders. Among the suggestions the foundation put together for aspiring female politicians to navigate voters' sometimes-confusing expectations of public women:

• Don't pose for a head shot. Instead, circulate more-candid, informal photos...

• Do share personal anecdotes when explaining why you're passionate about an issue or how you've helped constituents...

• Don't take credit all the time for your accomplishments...

• Do recognize your hair, makeup and clothes will be scrutinized...

*****

Even before Clinton lost, she was hinting at the outsize role she thought her gender was playing in the election. Two months before the election, she remarked that “it's especially tricky for women” to come across as both serious and likable.

*****

Read it all at: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/08/hillary-clinton-says-misogyny-played-a-role-in-her-loss-research-suggests-she-might-be-right/?utm_term=.e49e47189d6d&wpisrc=nl_most-draw14&wpmm=1
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Hillary Clinton says misogyny played a role in her loss. Research suggests she might be right. (Original Post) yallerdawg Apr 2017 OP
Might? Wounded Bear Apr 2017 #1
First words out of my mouth were Might????. Yup. Guilded Lilly Apr 2017 #16
Oh God. DK504 Apr 2017 #25
Yep. Might?????? calimary Apr 2017 #28
Great minds! BlueMTexpat Apr 2017 #30
I saw it PatSeg Apr 2017 #2
Even obvious things need evidence mythology Apr 2017 #3
This might be the biggest no shit ever. nycbos Apr 2017 #4
it's amazing that some people would even dispute this. unblock Apr 2017 #5
No fucking "might" about it. JTFrog Apr 2017 #6
Oversensitive aboutbigotry? What the ever loving fuck? Do some still think that bigotry bettyellen Apr 2017 #14
Yes. Because calling attention to bigotry is worse than bigotry itself. JTFrog Apr 2017 #24
Mind blowing brer cat Apr 2017 #42
share me link pretty please. JHan Apr 2017 #20
Additional research also suggests that water is wet and grass is green. Jonny Appleseed Apr 2017 #7
Since the election I have talked with many who voted for trump and was so caroldansen Apr 2017 #8
We got a lot of that right here at DU. yallerdawg Apr 2017 #10
John Lennon and Yoko Ono said it in 1972... Cattledog Apr 2017 #9
No doubt at all about it. MineralMan Apr 2017 #11
Do we really need research to prove that misogyny ProudLib72 Apr 2017 #12
Unfortunately many people "demand" we prove it. I'm sick of talking to them. bettyellen Apr 2017 #15
Once it is proven, then what? ProudLib72 Apr 2017 #18
I think with non-voters you can open a door and explore how their knee jerk expectations can cause bettyellen Apr 2017 #21
Of course she is right. lunamagica Apr 2017 #13
"Voters care whether their female politicians are likable, an attribute that is not something... bettyellen Apr 2017 #17
Politicians and their campaigns definitely know this. yallerdawg Apr 2017 #22
and imagine for a second she had said he was well spoken enough dsc Apr 2017 #39
As my beloved Dad used to say "no bout a doubt it". Guilded Lilly Apr 2017 #19
yes it was a factor, like racism. but the real question certainot Apr 2017 #23
K & R JHan Apr 2017 #26
I am certain of it. Ilsa Apr 2017 #27
For those that disagree.... mzteaze Apr 2017 #29
Great point and you're right - WJC wasn't asked for a cookie recipe FakeNoose Apr 2017 #33
To be filed in the "No Shit Sherlock" file. n/t Lil Missy Apr 2017 #31
That's an understatement! It fucking exists. TheBlackAdder Apr 2017 #32
Those white evangelicals have some soul searching to do. WomenRising2017 Apr 2017 #36
Michelle Backman couldn't get evangelicals to vote for her dsc Apr 2017 #40
Ah, yeah anglesphere Apr 2017 #34
She won the popular vote by almost 3 million... Lokilooney Apr 2017 #35
By 3,000,000 in California. yallerdawg Apr 2017 #37
Yes in states like Wisconsin and Michigan Lokilooney Apr 2017 #49
There are a lot of women out there who bought into "Leave it to Beaver" Warpy Apr 2017 #38
I know women who think that a woman shouldn't be president Kaleva Apr 2017 #41
The "might" is journalistic idiocy. brer cat Apr 2017 #43
"Might" seems to be catching people off guard. yallerdawg Apr 2017 #44
DUH! Bettie Apr 2017 #45
Any notion of how many votes she got cause she was a woman vs. how many she lost? jmg257 Apr 2017 #46
We have a word - misogyny. yallerdawg Apr 2017 #47
She received 66 million votes based on the fact that she was the WomenRising2017 Apr 2017 #48

DK504

(3,847 posts)
25. Oh God.
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 01:40 PM
Apr 2017

" ... why and what the underlying reasons were is what I'm trying to parse out myself.”

Me to sister, me to. The double standard list is rather nauseating. Woman hating woman trying to help, never have quite parsed that out myself.

calimary

(80,693 posts)
28. Yep. Might??????
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 02:10 PM
Apr 2017

I think that's definitely part of it. The electorate wasn't quite ready to go that far with breaking down barriers, seems to me. I suspect some voters may have felt that we'd just had a black President so "enough was enough with this equality stuff."

PatSeg

(46,794 posts)
2. I saw it
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 11:51 AM
Apr 2017

It certainly wasn't the only factor involved, but women in politics are treated much differently than men as a rule.

unblock

(51,974 posts)
5. it's amazing that some people would even dispute this.
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 11:55 AM
Apr 2017

the question is "how much of a role".

that it played "a" role is really beyond dispute.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
6. No fucking "might" about it.
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 11:55 AM
Apr 2017

And I Just left a thread where DU's woes are blamed on overly sensitive people who are mean to bigots and defend the party.

Unbelievable.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
14. Oversensitive aboutbigotry? What the ever loving fuck? Do some still think that bigotry
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 12:39 PM
Apr 2017

Is ONLY about hurt feelings and not relentless oppression?

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
24. Yes. Because calling attention to bigotry is worse than bigotry itself.
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 01:16 PM
Apr 2017

And yet Skinner's reply was that we should try to "educate people". Frustrating and ineffective here.




JHan

(10,173 posts)
20. share me link pretty please.
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 12:45 PM
Apr 2017

Last edited Sun Apr 9, 2017, 01:47 PM - Edit history (1)

where is this fkery occurring?

(thanks)

 

Jonny Appleseed

(960 posts)
7. Additional research also suggests that water is wet and grass is green.
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 11:58 AM
Apr 2017

Who woulda thunk? Many more people were willing to admit, thought it socially acceptable and based in logic, to express that they wouldn't vote for her because she was a she; a sentiment largely absent (or at least kept to themselves) from all but the fringes when you replace "woman" with "black".

caroldansen

(725 posts)
8. Since the election I have talked with many who voted for trump and was so
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 11:59 AM
Apr 2017

disappointed that one of the reasons we didnt get the best one for the job, namely Hillary, is because she is a woman. They voted for trump because Hillary is a woman and now we have a totally inexperienced idiot in the white house!

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
10. We got a lot of that right here at DU.
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 12:19 PM
Apr 2017

Many, many suggested they would not vote for Hillary BECAUSE she was a woman.

Some of us tried to convince them it would be alright to vote for Hillary DESPITE her being a woman!

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
15. Unfortunately many people "demand" we prove it. I'm sick of talking to them.
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 12:40 PM
Apr 2017

But it's a frequent thing on the net.

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
18. Once it is proven, then what?
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 12:44 PM
Apr 2017

I suppose it's a way of showing everyone that they are, indeed, misogynistic. Doesn't provide a solution, though.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
21. I think with non-voters you can open a door and explore how their knee jerk expectations can cause
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 12:52 PM
Apr 2017

them to ignore critical thought while listening and talking about candidates. I was shocked to hear some very liberal people talk about how "they couldn't listen" to Hillary and allow them to see their bias and their minds opened to how little they know her own actual history beyond the shit headlines.

I explained how hearing that struck me as way too familiar as many workplaces were similarly hostile to women in leadership. A light went off for a few. Most who hadn't worked for large companies don't see the way sexism functions in larger groups, and how ideas like being "turned off" were extremely unfair and damaging to women- as well as fucking stupid when you unpack all that it means.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
17. "Voters care whether their female politicians are likable, an attribute that is not something...
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 12:42 PM
Apr 2017

... they need from their male political leaders. "

The part about being seen as "serious and likable" is something ALL career women have to navigate.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
22. Politicians and their campaigns definitely know this.
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 12:53 PM
Apr 2017

The attacks on Hillary were most often "personal" and were meant to make her appear "unlikable."

One even suggested she was just "likable enough" - but not as likable as him?

Guilded Lilly

(5,591 posts)
19. As my beloved Dad used to say "no bout a doubt it".
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 12:44 PM
Apr 2017

Women know this.
No research necessary, but the effort is appreciated.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
23. yes it was a factor, like racism. but the real question
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 01:15 PM
Apr 2017

should be — how the fuck did that pos even get close? how could the gop get so dysfunctional and still be close enough to win/steal? to tens of millions, hillary’s emails were more important than global warming.

those ‘rust belt’ and ‘coal belt’ states are talk radio states and talk radio constantly excuses misogyny and racism to sell republicanism

until dems fix the talk radio problem liberals will continue the useless analysis of politics, blaming various symptoms of allowing 1000 radio stations a free speech free ride- like studying fish without water.

mzteaze

(448 posts)
29. For those that disagree....
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 02:13 PM
Apr 2017

Consider that this was probably the first presidential election in which the potential FLOTUS for each side were not asked to provide their favorite cookie recipes.

If misogyny doesn't play a part, why wasn't Bill asked to provide his favorite cookie (or any) recipe along side Melania?

FakeNoose

(32,349 posts)
33. Great point and you're right - WJC wasn't asked for a cookie recipe
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 02:35 PM
Apr 2017

They might have asked Chelsea though.

Why do our allies have strong/smart women leaders, who've been elected to office, and we can't do it?

I really believe the media plays a big role in this, but also the major parties can't get over their "boys' club" prejudices either.

TheBlackAdder

(28,073 posts)
32. That's an understatement! It fucking exists.
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 02:32 PM
Apr 2017

.


I took a Rutgers-Eagleton Woman and Politics course, and misogyny is rampant.

Trump took a majority of Evangelicals, moreso than the past 5 presidential election cycles. Unlike Obama, who fostered an early and strong outreach to the 43 Million Evangelicals, HRC refused to return calls from various Evangelical magazines and newspapers, and refused contact with various Evangelical leaders. Even so, this does not explain Trump's higher-than-normal vote totals.


While the Christian Right talks a game (not a good one) about having women leaders, the truth is, there is deep-seated resentment to women in power. The following link has enormous information on this topic, as the country's sole university research facility that specializes in Women and Politics.

http://www.cawp.rutgers.edu/


Spend a day there and you will be surprised at what you find.


(Note: Now I know I'll get jumped on for mentioning HRC's weak Evangelical outreach program, which was started late in the game, but that's the facts. Search online, because there is a Christian Left that expressed grave concerns that she ignored them. Many of those areas are where the Dems underperformed this past cycle, especially in PA. Her “The unborn person doesn ’t have constitutional rights." comment hurt her. Christianity Today repeatedly reached out to her and was rebuffed. Ruth Graham (Slate Magazine) has a powerful article. Michael Wear, Obama’s 2012 Faith Outreach Director said, "simple difference between Obama 's two presidential campaigns and Clinton's 2016 campaign is that Obama asked for the votes of white evangelicals and Clinton did not." Liberal Evangelical leader, Ron Sider a Democrat and the founder of Evangelicals for Social Action said, "I find it dumhfounding and incredibly stupid that the Democratic Party and her campaign didn 't reach out to try to engage a segment of the white evangelical community. Apparently they thought they could win without us." There's a bunch more. )


.

 

WomenRising2017

(203 posts)
36. Those white evangelicals have some soul searching to do.
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 03:04 PM
Apr 2017

It is hypocritical to claim that they were ignored by Hillary Clinton, when they clearly ignored Donald Trump's bigotry.

70,000 bigots do not negate the 66 million who were quite aware of what was at stake.

dsc

(52,130 posts)
40. Michelle Backman couldn't get evangelicals to vote for her
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 04:05 PM
Apr 2017

that should tell you all you need to know about what evangelicals think of women in public office.

anglesphere

(63 posts)
34. Ah, yeah
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 02:52 PM
Apr 2017

When Hillary was running the Republican's were all worried her emails might get into the hands of the Russians.

Now that their man is in, worries about russian spying are "political" and "overblown".


Lokilooney

(322 posts)
35. She won the popular vote by almost 3 million...
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 02:55 PM
Apr 2017

She lost because we pledge allegiance to the republic, not the democracy and she took the blue wall for granted.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
37. By 3,000,000 in California.
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 03:09 PM
Apr 2017

In the states that cost her the election, the results are measured in the thousands.

In numbers where the "little things" matter - including attitudes towards females and female politicians.

Lokilooney

(322 posts)
49. Yes in states like Wisconsin and Michigan
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 10:14 PM
Apr 2017

WI is actually a good example of what went wrong. Most assumed it was a lock and Clinton made one stop during the primary and then largely ignored the state (apparently you have to go back to 1972 to find a major candidate that did not campaign there). Trump made several visits, campaigned unusually hard and won. Same thing could be said for MI, I read somewhere that her campaign ran about 1/10 the canvassers that Kerry did in 04, they thought it was a lock and people were asking why is Trump spending so much time there? Well now they have their answer.

Of course it could be that there was still allot of anti establishment sentiment or the rust belt was spooked by a candidate that was for the TPP before they were against it. Either way people have to stop making up excuses if they don't want to see history repeat itself.

Warpy

(110,908 posts)
38. There are a lot of women out there who bought into "Leave it to Beaver"
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 03:25 PM
Apr 2017

as some sort of cultural norm instead of a sitcom: the stay at home Mom, the workadaddy who disappeared except at night and on weekends, and the two children (male, of course) who never said any bad words or ditched school or drank beer or smoked anything. While I don't know any who mop the floor or scrub the bathtubs in pearls and heels, the fantasy life holds. They would rather die than think a woman could do the job of president, they like having their lives planned out and no real decisions to have to make.

I don't know what to do about them except hope that damned TV show stops being rerun at some point and the poor dears no longer have a televised rule book to follow. Maybe their daughters will realize they're nuts. Their sons never will, it's been too nice to have an unpaid domestic servant around the house.

brer cat

(24,401 posts)
43. The "might" is journalistic idiocy.
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 09:05 PM
Apr 2017

And they know it, and they also know they played a role in maintaining the double standard.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
44. "Might" seems to be catching people off guard.
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 09:14 PM
Apr 2017

At the end of the linked article:

So did Clinton lose the presidency because she's a woman? I don't think that's something we'll ever be able to objectively measure. But many researchers have been able to measure that, in 2017, women who want to run for office are held to different/higher/double standards in nearly all aspects of their lives compared with their male competitors.
 

WomenRising2017

(203 posts)
48. She received 66 million votes based on the fact that she was the
Sun Apr 9, 2017, 10:07 PM
Apr 2017

best candidate. 70,000 votes were based in bigotry.

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