Should Tulsi Gabbard Leave Congress? MSNBC Discussion Now 9:53 pacific

[oasis]

[oasis]

1. Howard Dean says Gabbard's a disgrace.

[elleng]

3. for what reasons? Does he explain?

[oasis]

5. For Gabbard to doubt whether Assad has used chemical weapons

on his own people "is outrageous", to use another Dean adjective.

[elleng]

6. Thanks

[JTFrog]

7. Didn't realize explanation was even necessary. nt

[Cha]

34. Wow.. and what else did he say, oasis?

thank you!

[oasis]

36. Dr. Dean was interviewed about his tweet criticizing Gabbard's

position on Assad using chemical weapons on his own people. Gabbard has been trying to muddy the waters on the issue, so he called her actions "outrageous". Please see post # 23. George II posted a video.

Also post# 29.

[Cha]

42. Mahalo, oasis

For shining the Light! Glad her shite is not going unnoticed.

[oasis]

43. Democrats want that congressional seat occupied by a team player. nt

[liberalhistorian]

59. What "shite"? She has the right

to express doubts and to question things, like any other rep in a democracy. She should not be expected to be a robot mindlessly parroting the party/country line. We shouldn't want robots in office, we should want independent thinkers and questioners.

[Cha]

61. gabbard's Shite.. Assads History of Chemical Attacks, and Other Atrocities

assad's been Gassing and Killing his own people including children for years..

Assad’s History of Chemical Attacks, and Other Atrocities

snip//

In six years of war, President Bashar al-Assad of Syria has overseen a campaign of carnage, turning an enormous cache of deadly weapons against the very people they were presumably stockpiled to protect.

In a campaign to crush rebels and jihadists, Mr. Assad and his allies have relied on tactics that go far beyond the norms of modern warfare to kill many thousands of Syrians. Here are the ways they have done it.

The United States put the blame for the attack on the Syrian government and its patrons, Russia and Iran, and suggested that the salvo was a war crime. While the attack was among the deadliest uses of chemical weapons in Syria in years, it was far from an isolated case

snip//

The Syrian government has summarily executed 5,000 to 13,000 people in mass hangings in just one of its many prisons since the start of the six-year-old uprising against Mr. Assad, Amnesty International said in a report in February.

MOre..
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/05/world/middleeast/syria-bashar-al-assad-atrocities-civilian-deaths-gas-attack.html?_r=0

Course ron paul and Russia stick up for assad, too..

Always going on fakefox with greta van susteren to bash President Obama.. claiming he could "drag us into a nuclear war" blah blah blah.

[oasis]

64. No more Jim Trafficants, Joe Liebermans or Zell Millers.

I've had it with Dems who are more interested in grabbing the spotlight than doing the job to which they were elected.

[Tortmaster]

91. She's the Steve King of the Left.

Do you also consider Steve King to be an independent thinker?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

93. Damn right! Dr. Dean needs to go away... he's so yesterday.

[Gothmog]

98. Why?

Howard Dean was a very effective DNC chair and has the right express his opinion as to Gabbard

I also happen to agree with Dr. Dean

[Eliot Rosewater]

102. Independent? LOL

yeah right

[oasis]

2. Susan Del Percio says Tulsi is only "looking fo headlines" if she thinks

Assad had nothing to do with using chemical weapons against Syrians.

[shenmue]

4. Yes

[Cha]

84. gabbard use to go fakefox to accuse President Obama

of "wanting to start a nuclear war".. he asked congress to let him go in and take out assad's airfields.. not like trump who didn't do shit.

More headline grabbers from gabbard.

[HoneyBadger]

8. She has been outed as a mole by Twitter posts

[oasis]

15. IMO, her overt actions have said more about her than anything else. nt

[George II]

22. Not to mention her covert trip to Syria to meet with Assad.

[Generic Brad]

9. Isn't that up to her constituents?

They can vote her out next opportunity they get if they do not feel she represents their interests. But resigning because she holds an unpopular position? If that were the case, the entire GOP should follow suit and we all know that will never happen.

[hatrack]

11. No, because she met on her own with a foreign head of state

That's foreign policy, and foreign policy is not the purview of the Legislative Branch.

Certainly, Congressional visits, trade missions, what have you, all routine. So are sanctions, embargoes, etc. - provided the votes are there in Congress.

But meeting with Assad with an eye to changing US policy towards Syria? That's a big no-no, even in the context of flaming ineptitude and corruption as shown by President Shitstain and his 40 Thieves.

[George II]

20. I don't believe anyone in Congress knew...

...that she was making a secret trip to Syria and met with Assad.

What did they discuss? We don't know for sure.

[synergie]

33. This was after her confab with Trump and her admirer, President Bannon?

[former9thward]

49. Oh really?

What about when Speaker Pelosi met with Assad despite the opposition of the White House.

Pelosi shrugs off Bush’s criticism, meets Assad

DAMASCUS, Syria — U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi met Syrian President Bashar al-Assad on Wednesday for talks criticized by the White House as undermining American efforts to isolate the hard-line Arab country.
Pelosi said Assad assured her of his willingness to engage in peace talks with Israel, and that she and other members of her congressional delegation raised their concern about militants crossing from Syria into Iraq, as well the Israeli soldiers kidnapped by the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah and the Palestinian group Hamas.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/17920536/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/pelosi-shrugs-bushs-criticism-meets-assad/#.WOrObtLyvIU

[oasis]

51. "Whataboutism" strikes again.

[former9thward]

53. As does a non-answer....

[Vinca]

10. I would give a shit about Tulsi if the media covered the rather obvious point of the missiles

in the first place. It had nothing to do with beautiful babies or gas attacks and everything to do with distraction. Heard much about Russia the past few days?? The missiles hit an airfield and didn't even disable it. The planes had been removed from the hangars before the hangars were hit. People worry about Tulsi cozying up to Assad, but it would appear the entire attack plan was laid out for him before it happened giving him enough time to prepare. I'm betting Pootie got on the horn and told Assad what he was going to let happen for the good of the cause. Next thing you know a CNN host is slobbering all over Trump calling him "presidential." A happy Trump is an easier tool to work with.

[oasis]

12. For sure there was limited damage to the airfield and surrounding

structures due to Russia's heads up call prior to the attack. I believe more will be exposed about the whole event being nothing more than dog and pony show.

[sheshe2]

66. Wag that tail.

That pathetic forewarned non strike was drama...it will win no academy awards and will cost tax payers millions!

[oasis]

68. Hopefully it's just a "one and done". nt

[sheshe2]

70. As Carriers...

steamed toward Korea.

I wish, oasis. I wish.

[OliverQ]

13. Tulsi should go, but all the GOP idiots who do worse than her get to stay?

[oasis]

14. If the Republican Party chooses to keep idiots on board, that's on them.

Dems have no use for an albatross like Gabbard.

[Gothmog]

99. This is a safe Democratic seat that should be occupied by someone who helps the Democratic party

Gabbard's actions here are not helpful.

[SnowScorn]

16. Any Video?

Does anyone have a recorded clip of this? It was on Weekends with Alex Witt ~1pm April 9th. Howard Dean and Susan Del Percio. Don't have a DVR but i'm starting to archive these attacks on Gabbard.
Thanks.

[oasis]

17. See post # 23 by George II. Earlier, MSNBC announced Howard Dean would

Last edited Sun Apr 9, 2017, 04:13 PM - Edit history (1)

appear to explain his tweet about Gabbard. He and Republican, Del Percio shared only about 8 to 20 min. of commentary on Gabbard's remarks concerning Assad.

[HoneyBadger]

18. I love interviews to explain tweets

It is like watching The Bachelor.

[oasis]

19. Howard Dean is someone you don't want questioning your motives

if you plan to be effective in the Democratic Party. He's a former DNC chair and a well respected spokesman for Democrats.

[VOX]

50. Absolutely true.

Dean is NOT the guy to piss off.

[Cha]

82. Quit trying to smear Howard Dean.. prove he's a "Warmonger"

All you have are stupid smears.

[Cha]

35. Here's Raw Story's account.. No different than Trump with Putin

No different than Trump with Putin’: Howard Dean says Tulsi Gabbard should resign for defending Assad:

Vid @ link..

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/04/no-different-than-trump-with-putin-howard-dean-says-tulsi-gabbard-should-resign-for-defending-assad/

Dean is not impressed with gabbard

[oasis]

44. Mahalo Cha.

I knew I could count on your kokua.

[George II]

23. The video is here, toward the bottom:

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/04/no-different-than-trump-with-putin-howard-dean-says-tulsi-gabbard-should-resign-for-defending-assad/

[Hekate]

24. "...these attacks on Gabbard"? That's a rather ambiguous way of putting it. Just curious...

...but why are you "archiving" them? Approve or disapprove?

Personally, I think she has a really interesting CV, but believe she is not serving us well as the Democrat she claims to be. Her statements and behaviors make one wonder where her loyalties lie. Assad's atrocities are extremely well documented.

Welcome to DU.

[sheshe2]

67. Why are you archiving...

Don't have a DVR but i'm starting to archive these attacks on Gabbard.

[Rhiannon12866]

90. Here:

And welcome to DU!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8911890

[Voltaire2]

25. Aren't we supposed to support Democrats?

[IphengeniaBlumgarten]

26. Yeah, that's what I thought.

Not a fan of Tulsi Gabard at all, but don't she vote with the Democrats? If her constituents will be motivated to replace her, that sure is fine with me, but in the meantime, lets pay attention to our real opponents: the Republicans.

[Cha]

40. We can multi-task if a dem needs to be primaried..

she was last election and I voted for her opponent Shay Chan Hodges.

[JCanete]

104. haha...now we can multi-task. Look, I'm going to look into Gabbard, I don't know enough about

her or this mess to weigh in, but sometimes the consistency is lacking at DU in general, depending on our own personal likes or dislikes. At least give me that.

Ive been hearing for months about the kinds of things that are distractions. Gabbard comes out and disagrees with Trump's reasoning for a unilateral military action, the guy we are all against, and she needs to resign for her statement, according to Dean.

As for talks of primaries, and pushing the party in a person's preferred direction, I think that's fair game, and NOT a distraction, so I have no problem with that on principle.

[Cha]

38. Not if one needs to be primaried for backing assad.

[Cha]

77. gabbard gives assad cover.. she's had her head in the sand for years..

I am not fine with that..

Assad’s History of Chemical Attacks, and Other Atrocities

snip//

In six years of war, President Bashar al-Assad of Syria has overseen a campaign of carnage, turning an enormous cache of deadly weapons against the very people they were presumably stockpiled to protect.

In a campaign to crush rebels and jihadists, Mr. Assad and his allies have relied on tactics that go far beyond the norms of modern warfare to kill many thousands of Syrians. Here are the ways they have done it.

The United States put the blame for the attack on the Syrian government and its patrons, Russia and Iran, and suggested that the salvo was a war crime. While the attack was among the deadliest uses of chemical weapons in Syria in years, it was far from an isolated case

snip//

The Syrian government has summarily executed 5,000 to 13,000 people in mass hangings in just one of its many prisons since the start of the six-year-old uprising against Mr. Assad, Amnesty International said in a report in February.

MOre..
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/05/world/middleeast/syria-bashar-al-assad-atrocities-civilian-deaths-gas-attack.html?_r=0

Course ron paul and Russia stick up for assad, too..

Always went on fakefox with greta van susteren to bash President Obama.. claiming he could "drag us into a nuclear war" blah blah blah.

[synergie]

45. I thought we were also supposed to be able to criticize them when they

say and do things that are completely against common sense, simple facts and Democratic ideals. Isn't that what people say when they say stuff about Manchin, Heitcamp, and people who say stuff about the Democrats that doesn't seem to be very nice, (or accurate)?

Something about not letting a (D) next to their name not insulating them from legitimate criticism, or are some people exempted from that despite the legitimacy of the criticism?

[Jake Stern]

105. Bullshit

One can openly question Tulsi Gabbard's status as a Democrat and get away with it but woe be unto the poor sod who levels even the mildest of criticism at Manchin and Heitkamp. In that case you'll be buried under a metric shit ton of Blue Dog apologia and pearl clutching expressions of angst like "Do you want a Republican in that seat, huh????"

On Edit: It's amusing to see folks accuse Gabbard of working with the administration like it's a bad thing but will get their undies in a twist when it's pointed out that Joe Manchin doesn't really hide the fact that he kisses Orange Don's derriere.

[synergie]

107. I guess you haven't seen the actual metric tons of BS here?

Or where they're coming from? Anything less than adulation of those who supported the losing primary candiate is not tolerated.

Pearl clutching angst of, if s/he said it, it's LW and true, never mind facts, never mind reality, just a lot of abuse and the silencing.

I find it amusing that the folks who think it's AMAZING that Trump voters need to embraced and coddled and their racism and reality denied, and Gabbard running over to do what you accused Manchin of doing, and then rushing off to Trump and Bannon's bidding with dictators, without telling anyone is such a wonderful thing. By people who in the same breath criticize Manchin.


The manufacturing of outrage, the dumping of shit tons of pure hypocrisy and double standards are indeed amusing. I guess it depends on how much you like the folks kissing Orange
Don's derriere is the issue, not the derriere kissing itself. It's kind of hilarious that this is openly stated and without any self awareness at all.

Pure Bull Shit..

[JCanete]

109. totally, but I think the people asking here were actually pointing out that double standard they

were noticing. I'm not sure if pointing it right back at them works in this case.

[betsuni]

62. Well, this is a nice illustration of the difference between bashing and criticism.

I know how difficult it is for some to tell. Gabbard has done something in real life. We can all agree that she has done this thing and it is a fact. We can discuss it and some people will say it is very bad and why it is bad. This is criticism. On the other hand, if I have seen a fake news story about how Gabbard rigged an election and took bribes and I come in here calling her corrupt, an oligarch, corporate stooge, liar, status quo, she's amassing a huge fortune and doesn't care about the working class, etc., that's bashing. All that name-calling isn't based on fact, just my emotions -- what a gullible fool I am not to simply Google and find out if the fake news is real or not, what an idiot!

[radical noodle]

86. Hmmm...

that sounds very familiar (all the corrupt, oligarch, liar stuff, that is). In fact, I think I may have heard some of that same stuff from Gabbard herself about someone.

Can't recall who of course.

[Pablorama]

27. Her point was that US interventionist regime change wars cause vastly more suffering.

I am also skeptical of anything coming from this administration.

[oasis]

29. Oksana Boyco of "Russia Today" put forth the same talking points as

Gabbard in an interview with a Syrian national who spoke in opposition to the Assad regime. At least the Kremlin has everyone on the same page in regards to the coverup.

[Demsrule86]

39. She supposedly took a message to Assad from Trump previously.

I don't care for her.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028889343

[synergie]

46. Given that she's working with that administration and is a favorite among them

I find her dismissal of the evidence we have that Assad uses chemical weapons against his own people to be suspect. What did they discuss in her rule-breaking meeting with the man after her confab with Trump and Bannon?

[Cha]

83. assad has been gassing his own people for YEARS..

President Obama wanted to go in and take out his air fields.. Not like trump who didn't do shit.. and Congress wouldn't let him.

gabbard has had her head in the sand for years on assad.. but she did get on fakefox a lot and bash Obama for "wanting the start nuclear war"

[Recursion]

28. The fact that Nazi Richard Spencer endorses her should give her fans pause

Link to tweet

[Cha]

85. No kidding.. Mahalo, Recursion

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

100. WOW

That is not an endorsement that I would want to have

[killbotfactory]

30. The two most powerful factions in Syria, after Assad, are Isis and Al Qaeda

Does anyone think this war will become less atrocious if the Syrian government falls, and those two groups fight it out for power with secular rebels (who coordinate with al nusra, so who knows what they'll do) and American troops stuck in the middle?

Why the fuck does anyone in the media trust Trump to not blow up this conflict into something more horrible?

[oasis]

32. Gabbard backed the wrong horse if she wished to remain a Democrat.

I believe that was the point Dr. Dean was attempting to make.

[Pablorama]

37. Chicken hawks know no party

[oasis]

41. I don't believe Dr. Dean is a "chicken hawk". nt

[synergie]

47. Which of the two Democrats are you bashing with this term?

[Me.]

48. Is That You Tulsi?

[Pablorama]

65. We've got our own regime change to deal with

Last edited Mon Apr 10, 2017, 12:51 AM - Edit history (1)

Your credulity plays right into Loser, Inc.'s, hands by allowing yourself to be distracted. These weapons can be in anyone's hands there, and Assad would never admit he had them, much less admit they had been captured or stolen. Your rush to judgement is appalling and your agenda is questionable. The US military denied the 3/17 bombing of civilians in a mosque in rebel held Al-Jinah. Guess you believed them. Weapons of mass destruction lies empowered ISIL to begin with. The UN should have been allowed to investigate, a coherent plan should have been laid out, and Congress should have been consulted first. What's your agenda, Oasis?

[sheshe2]

69. Dr Dean a chicken hawk?

WTH!?

[democratisphere]

52. No rogue Democrats.

[msongs]

54. get her a job in trump administration, then we can get a real progressive in Hawaii again nt

[oasis]

55. Trump interviewed her during transition. Apparently, she came across

too flakey for him to deal with.

[Eyeball_Kid]

56. This is all crazy.

There is only circumstantial evidence of Assad bombing with chemical agents. This time. And that's what Gabbard is saying. There is also circumstantial evidence indicating that he didn't.

[oasis]

57. Then, who do you think did it "this time"?

[killbotfactory]

58. Probably Assad, but since this risks drawing us directly into the conflict...

Isn't a certain degree of skepticism warranted? Assad is not the only one who can make Sarin in this warzone, and there are a whole lot of factions who have been begging us to get more involved. That the media narrative was basically "Gas attack, Assad did it, Attack and invade yesterday, think of the children and look at those beautiful bombs fly!" is a bit disturbing, no?

[oasis]

60. Doesn't matter if it was Russia or Assad. They're partners

in the war crimes effort. Better we send the message against the venue from where the chemical attack originated.

[JI7]

89. it would be better to accept the facts and make a case against war based on that

because do you oppose war because you don't think assad used chemical weapons ? and would you support it if he did ?

there are many ways to argue against what the media is saying. the biggest being Trump's shitty policies like banning refugees .

[Cha]

63. No, there's more than "circumstantial evidence".. It's not "crazy" to call her out

..assad's been Gassing and Killing his own people including children for years..

Assad’s History of Chemical Attacks, and Other Atrocities

snip//

In six years of war, President Bashar al-Assad of Syria has overseen a campaign of carnage, turning an enormous cache of deadly weapons against the very people they were presumably stockpiled to protect.

In a campaign to crush rebels and jihadists, Mr. Assad and his allies have relied on tactics that go far beyond the norms of modern warfare to kill many thousands of Syrians. Here are the ways they have done it.

The United States put the blame for the attack on the Syrian government and its patrons, Russia and Iran, and suggested that the salvo was a war crime. While the attack was among the deadliest uses of chemical weapons in Syria in years, it was far from an isolated case

snip//

The Syrian government has summarily executed 5,000 to 13,000 people in mass hangings in just one of its many prisons since the start of the six-year-old uprising against Mr. Assad, Amnesty International said in a report in February.

MOre..
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/05/world/middleeast/syria-bashar-al-assad-atrocities-civilian-deaths-gas-attack.html?_r=0

Course ron paul and Russia stick up for assad, too..

Always going on fakefox with greta van susteren to bash President Obama.. claiming he could "drag us into a nuclear war" blah blah blah.

[LanternWaste]

95. What specifically leads you to allege the evidence is merely circumstantial?

What specifically leads you to allege the evidence is merely circumstantial?

[Cha]

79. That's a strawman.. gabbard is giving cover to assad..

Howard Dean is not a "warmonger".. your accusing others of this does nothing for gabbard.

[grantcart]

78. Trump should make her ambassador to Syria.

[Jim Beard]

87. Yeah, we have so many Democrats we can afford to get rid of many.

there are 39 counties in the Texas Panhandle, South Plains and Permian Basin that have no Democratic Party chairs. Why don't you work just as hard to get new members as kicking them out?

[Cha]

88. That's not what we're sayin'.. gabbard will be primaried

again in Hawaii and we could send a Dem in her place who doesn't give cover to assad.

Link to tweet

gabbard can criticize the attack without giving cover to assad who's been bombing and gassing Syrians for years.

[mcar]

106. Hawaii can do much better

I look forward to her being primaries Cha.

[Cha]

108. I hope so, mcar!

That's why I really like the Light being shone on gabbard.

[FDRsGhost]

92. In Tulsi's own words

I'm just going to share this.
IMHO, she sounds like an anti-war activist more than anything.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[oasis]

94. Where's Tulsi's tweet condemning Assad's war criminal actions?

She refuses to hold Assad accountable for his use of chemical weapons on innocent civilians on multiple occasions.

Gabbard conveniently ignores the elephant in the room. Not a single word about Assad.

[Jim Beard]

96. She hasn't jumped on Trumps bandwagon like all the Democrats did with GW Bush's

WMDs.

She isn't praising Trump like so many Democrats are. I think I trust her more than Trump.

[oasis]

97. I don't trust either one. nt

[Cha]

110. You can disagree with trump without giving cover to assad..

for years..

How Tulsi Gabbard became Assads mouthpiece in Washington

By Josh Rogin January 29

snip//

The Bashar al-Assad regime in Syria has had a quiet but well-funded lobbying effort in Washington since well before he began murdering his own people. But that influence campaign’s clearest triumph came only this month, when it succeeded in bringing Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii) to Damascus and having her parrot Assad’s propaganda on her return.

snip//

Upon her return, Gabbard referenced those Syrians in interviews and op-eds to reinforce her long-held opposition to what she calls the U.S. “regime change” policy in Syria. She also asserted there are no moderate rebels in Syria and that the United States is funding and arming al-Qaeda and the Islamic State. Neither is true, but both match the talking points that the Assad regime has been pushing for the entirety of the war.


snip//

Principled opposition to U.S. intervention in Syria is one thing. Becoming a tool of a mass murderer’s propaganda and influence campaign is another. Gabbard’s cooperation with the Syrian regime damages her effort to promote herself as a legitimate foreign policy voice.

More.. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/how-tulsi-gabbard-became-assads-mouthpiece-in-washington/2017/01/29/215e9c70-e4bf-11e6-a547-5fb9411d332c_story.html?utm_term=.99b76cc133ef

[samnsara]

101. dont even know who she is..is she a dem and a warm body?

.....so I vote no

[oasis]

103. Try reading posts #23#28#63#77 and then decide. nt