No traction on DU for TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership)? This is a FIVE ALARM EMERGENCY, people...

[HomerRamone]

Last edited Mon Jul 2, 2012, 01:19 PM - Edit history (1)

Very hard to get scope across in 4 paragraphs, PLEASE read whole thing

http://www.alternet.org/news/156059/trans-pacific_partnership:_under_cover_of_darkness,_a_corporate_coup_is_underway?page=entire

The proposed pact is so invasive of domestic policy space that it would even limit how governments can spend tax dollars. Buy America and other Buy Local procurement preferences used to reinvest our tax dollars in the American economy would be banned and sweat-free, human rights or environmental conditions on government contracts would be subject to challenge in closed-door foreign tribunals.

Indeed, signatory countries would be obliged to conform all their domestic laws and regulations to TPP’s rules, effecting a quiet corporate coup d’état. And, regardless of election outcomes or changes in public opinion, these extreme rules could not be altered without the consent of all signatory countries. Failure to conform to these rules would subject countries to indefinite trade sanctions.

A recent leak of one of TPP’s most controversial chapters reveals that the pact would elevate individual corporations and investors to equal status with sovereign nations to privately enforce this treaty. U.S. negotiators are among the greatest champions of this “investor state” enforcement system. It would give any foreign firm incorporated in any TPP country new rights to skirt U.S. courts and laws, directly sue the U.S. government before foreign tribunals and demand compensation for financial, health, environmental, land use and other laws they claim undermine their TPP privileges.

After Obama’s election, U.S. trade officials were instructed to withdraw from the TPP negotiations Bush had launched – supposedly to sort out a new approach that implemented candidate Obama’s campaign commitments to fix the damaging old NAFTA model. But after a kabuki dance of ears-closed check-the-box “consultations” with a minimal number of congressional representatives and civil society groups, Obama’s trade officials picked up where Bush left off. Actually, they doubled down -- pushing even more extreme positions than the Bush administration on issues like Internet freedom and access to medicines.

[KoKo]

1. Every time TPP is mentioned....the posts drop like stones off to archives.

There's no interest here.

[chervilant]

15. And, yet,

here is AMPLE evidence that the Corporate Megalomaniacs--who've usurped our media, our politics and our global economy--are working to insure that their global hegemony is absolute.

[whathehell]

108. Any ideas as to why

President Obama would be involved in this?

[Dragonfli]

123. Yes, He is a third way Democrat and uses third way policy as his starting point in negotiations

Third way loves Free Trade, they spend a great deal of ink pushing it. He is just mirroring their views as always.

Their latest publication regarding this deal is entitled
"Boatloads of Growth: Recapturing America’s Share of Asia-Pacific Trade"

It is what they want, they agree with the Republicans on this issue, they call it finding common ground, I call it right wing infestation of our party via think tank.

[whathehell]

125. Thanks, Dragonfli

This sort of agreement seems more out and out fascist than

Third Way, though, don't you think?

I mean, Jeebus...Undermining the nation-state

for governance by Corporation?.

[nadinbrzezinski]

139. Quite a bit of the language is OUT OF NAFTA

this is in some ways NAFTA on steroids, and the corporate-state agreements for trade disputes, are out of the NAFTA language.

I hate to say it but a lot of this is not new. No, that does not mean it is good... go over to Public Citizen and google their material on this crap, after you get your bp meds, go to the nerds at the Electronic Frontier Foundation... you think it's bad now... wait.

[whathehell]

167. I'm not surprised...Disappointed, but not surprised.

And yes, this is lousy.

[Dragonfli]

156. It's right up their alley, they are a corporate driven think tank after all.

[chervilant]

164. Obama's position on this

and other economic issues is distressing. If you have not already done so, watch Charles Ferguson's 'Inside Job,' which won the 2011 Best Documentary Oscar.

Tim Geithner, Larry Summers, Peter Orszag, Rahm Emmanuel, Henry Paulson, and Ben Bernanke are all members of the Confederacy of Dunces appointed by Obama to key economic and advisory positions. These people are greedy parasites who played significant roles in the financial crisis that has tanked the global economy.

[whathehell]

166. I know..

and I've had the same doubts about some of his

actions, on and off, for some time.

Some have even suggested that he's a "Manchurian candidate"

as it were and that he's misrepresented himself from the first -- I do hope that's not true.

Others think that, as a fairly inexperienced politician (to the national scene, anyway),

he's been manipulated by forces around him.

I did see "Inside Job" by the way, but, apart from having a hard

time ferreting out the nuances of high finance, I either don't

remember or didn't recognize it's connection to Obama. If you could

shine a light on it for me, I'd be interested in understanding it.

Thanks.

[chervilant]

180. Well,

the documentary has a fairly chronological framework, so the info regarding Obama's contributions to the status quo is near the end. Some people mistakenly see this as minimizing Obama's complicit support of these fraudulent financiers. However, it's clear that these vile hedonists are--like deadly vipers--clasped close to our nation's heart, and Obama has done nothing to address their vile and destructive hedonism.

[whathehell]

189. Thanks. I'll watch the film again, and see what I can glean from it. n/t

[xtraxritical]

24. If the poster cannot, at least once, type out completely what TPP means I'll not waste my time

reading the post. It's a standard practice.

[HomerRamone]

27. That'll show him!

Sorry, but it's hard to get a subject line urgent enough to get readers and make it fit. And it was extremely hard to pick only four paragraphs this time. It stands for "Trans-Pacific Partnership". Sorry it wasn't included, but the issue is more important than my shortcomings as a poster...

[NYC_SKP]

36. The TPP "Trans-Pacific Partnership" is Gonna Further FUCK U.S. Workers. STEP UP!!!

There, see, I would open that post AND learn something new!

[stockholmer]

144. wow

[lonestarnot]

151. I get annoyed with acronyms also, but can usually figure out WTF by reading the thread, so what's

your beef? Or I where's the beef?

[HiPointDem]

59. especially when folks like yourself throw in the towel from the get-go. and other folks are more

worried about a cartoon blow job than the policies that actually affect people's lives.

[HiPointDem]

73. I don't have a towel on my own, you're right. Organized i have a towel.

[HiPointDem]

82. regardless, organized people have a towel.

[HomerRamone]

101. I can't resist

[freshwest]

70. I take this back earlier. Nixon era.

[chervilant]

168. Here's a sad corollary:

most of the poor folk here in the Ozarks are either on the dole, or mutely grateful for whatever menial work they can find. The top wage for this menial labor is about $10 an hour. Those fortunate few who are employed rarely have benefits because their hours are limited so that their employer can avoid providing such 'amenities.' As long as they make enough to feed the kids and buy their cigarettes and beer, they're satisfied. If you ask them who is Ben Bernanke or Tim Geithner, they have no clue. Moreover, they don't CARE.

Yet, they care DEEPLY about "Obamacare" (although they haven't read the legislation, nor can they describe its basic tenets), and they care that Mr. Obama is black.

I have to agree with you: we're toast.

[Huey P. Long]

68. INFO-

The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) is being negotiated in secret and the stakes for the 99% couldn't be higher. Go to www.TPP2012.com and click on TAKE ACTION today. Share Public Citizen Global Trade Watch's song parody to the tune of Jackson 5's ABC with friends and family and encourage them to take action too! Follow us @PCGTW and the hashtag #TPP2012. Together, we can STOP the TPP!

Have you heard? The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) "free trade" agreement is a stealthy policy being pressed by corporate America, a dream of the 1 percent, that in one blow could:
-offshore millions of jobs,
-free Wall Street and its banksters from oversight,
-reduce Internet freedom,
-ban policies needed to create green jobs and rebuild local economies,
-decrease access to medicine by extending drug company monopolies,
-empower corporations to attack our environmental and health safeguards, such as tobacco control and clean air and water regulations.

Closed-door talks are on-going between the U.S. and Australia, Brunei, Chile, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, Malaysia and Vietnam; with countries like Japan and China potentially joining later. 600 corporate advisors have access to the text, while the public, Members of Congress, journalists, and civil society are excluded. And so far what we know about what's in there is very scary!

But there's still time to organize to shine a light on the horrors of the TPP and convince our governments to instead pursue policies that benefit the 99% in our countries. Watch this video and then take action by signing our petition calling for an end to secrecy in the TPP negotiations and learn more at www.TPP2012.com.



--


?w=538&h=415

The Trans-Pacic Partnership (TPP) would create
a super-treaty which would jeopardize the
sovereignty of the nations involved by giving
their power to large corporations like Wal-Mart,
Monsanto, Goldman Sachs, Pzer, Halliburton,
Philip Morris, GE, GM, and Apple.

— There are currently 11 nations involved: US,
New Zealand, Australia, Brunei, Chile,
Malaysia, Peru, Singapore, Vietnam, Mexico
and Canada. Japan has shown interest.

— The economic power of this group is more
than 40% larger than the 27- nation
European Union.

— TPP will oshore millions of good-paying
jobs to low-wage nations, undercutting
working conditions globally and
increasing unemployment.

— TPP will expand pharmaceutical monopoly
protections and institute longer patents that
will decrease access to aordable medications.

— TPP will limit food GMO labeling and allow the
import of goods that do not meet
US safety standards.

— TPP will institute SOPA, PIPA, and CISPA-like regulations and internet measures
which restrict our right to free speech.

— TPP will roll back Wall Street regulations, and prohibit bans on risky nancial services.
... unless we let them know “No Deal!”

-

Monday, July 2, Noon - Protest the TPP on the first day of the Talks. Join the San Diego and Imperial Counties Labor Council Rally and Press Conference at the Hilton Bayfront Hotel!

July 2, 3, 5, 6, 7 - People’s Conference: A Better World is Possible! Evening discussions with international, national and local grassroots organizers and experts. Click for Details.

Saturday, July 7, 11 am - Major Pots and Pans March to STOP TPP! Bring Your Pots and Pans and Drums! Gather at 10:30 am in Freedom Plaza (Civic Center). March at 11 am. Rally at noon at the Hilton Bayfront Hotel!

[whathehell]

107. OMG...sounds like the final step in a plan for corporate world domination.

and I thought the wingnuts conspiracy theories about the "New World Order"

were bullshit.

[Huey P. Long]

112. MORE-

Obama Betrays Campaign Promise to Label Genetically Engineered Food
In 2007, Senator Obama, campaigning for the presidency in the Democratic primary, promised to label genetically engineered food.

Now, if you write the Obama for America campaign about GMO labels, you get this response:

"Genetically modified crops hold out the promise of benefits like increased production and reduced reliance on pesticides. At the same time, some Americans want more information to help them choose their food. President Obama understands these concerns and is considering additional steps in this area."

What? How can he flip his position like that? What makes him believe Monsanto's lies? Why isn't he listening to the 9 out of 10 voters who want GMOs labeled? Is there anything we can do to get him back on our side before November?

The first step is to give Barack Obama a piece of our minds! Bill Maher did on his show last week, when he called the President out for breaking his campaign promise on GMO labels and putting Monsanto's Michael Taylor in charge of food safety. Please tell the Obama for America campaign what you think about broken promises.

-
http://www.organicconsumers.org/bytes/ob335.htm
-

Real Time with Bill Maher 22 june 2012 in HD GMOs (Genetically Modified Foods)


=



Obama Trade Deal To Put Corporations Above The Law

Published on Jun 23, 2012 by TheYoungTurks
"President Barack Obama's administration on Monday formally invited Mexico to join controversial free trade negotiations known as the Trans-Pacific Partnership, reinforcing consumer and environmental group concerns that the deal may establish broad new powers for corporations. The invitation comes less than one week after a leaked U.S. document sparked an uproar because it proposed terms that would grant corporations the ability to bypass U.S. public interest laws and regulations in courts here and appeal directly to international tribunals. U.S. advocacy groups and some members of Congress have criticized the U.S. proposals...".* The Young Turks host Cenk Uygur breaks it down.

[whathehell]

117. OMG...This is scary..

I watched both videos...What the hell is wrong with Obama?

[KoKo]

127. I didn't realize he'd come out for the GMO's...

Those videos are pretty upsetting. With Michelle having an organic garden and concerned about the quality of food her kids eat plus her campaign for healthy eating for the children of America ... how can Obama be for this?

[Huey P. Long]

132. You mean you fell for that cheap PR nonsense?

Its all a big show. Corporations rule.

[KoKo]

204. yep...The BIG SHOW...

[stockholmer]

145. thank you so much for keeping the spotlight on the oligarchs and their puppets in power

[whathehell]

169. I think you may have actually been directing this to another poster.

[stockholmer]

185. ah, you are correct, but hello anyway!!!

[whathehell]

188. Yes, indeed...Back at ya!

[Huey P. Long]

205. The Trans Pacific Partnership – A Corporate Fascist Coup

The Trans Pacific Partnership – A Corporate Fascist Coup
There is a bold global corporate takeover happening right before our eyes. The Trans Pacific Partnership has been discussed in secret for nearly 3 years and has been disguised as a trade deal when in reality it amounts to a fascist corporate coup where the megacorporations are gaining a tighter grip over individual governments all over the world.

Published on Jul 8, 2012
There is a bold global corporate takeover happening right before our eyes. The Trans Pacific Partnership has been discussed in secret for nearly 3 years and has been disguised as a trade deal when in reality it amounts to a fascist corporate coup where the megacorporations are gaining a tighter grip over individual governments all over the world.

Leaked TPP investment chapter:
http://www.citizenstrade.org/ctc/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/tppinvestment.pdf

Sign the "stop the trap" petition:
http://stopthetrap.net/

More info on the TPP:
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article35265.html?all=true
http://openmedia.ca/?gclid=CJnWqMbQirECFQZtKgodJ3Uq0Q
http://www.citizenstrade.org/ctc/blog/2012/06/13/newly-leaked-tpp-investment-...
=============

[Huey P. Long]

182. You people are most welcome, but the task is to get the idiot followers to wake up.

[EverHopeful]

114. THank you

Can't be there but Thank You!

[whathehell]

124. I forgot to say: "Thanks" for all this good info, Huey.

[KoKo]

126. Thanks, Huey...hope concerned folks here will read your info.

at least there is some effort being made to stop it.

[stockholmer]

146. big ups for the links Huey

[stockholmer]

186. thank you so much for keeping the spotlight on the oligarchs and their puppets in power

I accidentally sent this to the wrong poster the first time

[Taverner]

110. I think it is because a lot of people don't understand it

and therein lies the rub

[pscot]

2. You're right. You really do have to read the whole thing

Another excerpt:

With the direct participation of 600 corporations and shocking levels of secrecy, the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) is rushing to complete the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). Branded as a trade agreement (yawn) by its corporate proponents, TPP largely has evaded public and congressional scrutiny since negotiations were launched in 2008 by the George W. Bush administration.

But trade is the least of it. Only two of TPP’s 26 chapters actually have to do with trade. The rest is about new enforceable corporate rights and privileges and constraints on government regulation. This includes new extensions of price-raising drug patent monopolies, corporate rights to attack government drug formulary pricing plans, safeguards to facilitate job offshoring and new corporate controls over natural resources.

[eppur_se_muova]

18. "launched ... by the George W. Bush administration". That's a red flag right there.

More of Bu**sh**'s poisonous legacy.

[dtom67]

52. All for Naught ...

Most "Free Trade" agreements have nothing to do with actual free trade; they are concerned with defining corporate rights ( Intellectual property rights, etc.) as taking precedent over Sovereign rights. There never seems to be any hope of Domestic influence in stopping this crap, either.
This is part of my theory of explaining the " Doomsday Prepper " phenomena . Everybody knows , at some level, that the wealthy are grinding us ,and the Earth, to dust with their greed. It seems that there is nothing that we can do because they own everything. I think, subconsciously , we secretly hope for some type of unpreventable societal collapse, so that the Rich might get a taste of that feeling of helplessness. It would also give us the opportunity to start civilization over, after we have dragged the 1% from their homes and marched them to the guillotine. It would allow us to start over without having to do all the hard work of actually risking our asses revolting against the System; I might have a Guy Fawkes icon on my post, but that doesn't mean I want to end up like him.

[HiPointDem]

60. +1.

[Mojorabbit]

147. +1000 nt

[snot]

3. Thank you, agreed, K&R'd! E.g.,

I understand the TPP contains provisions for

Criminalizing Small Scale Copyright Infringement. Under the TPP, downloading music could be considered a crime. Your computer could be seized as a device that aids this offense and your kid could be sent to jail for downloading. Some of these rules are part of US law. The TPP makes them worse and also imposes similar rules on other countries that don’t have them.

Kicking People Off the Internet. The TPP would encourage your ISP and the content industry to agree to institute measures such as three strikes—which kicks you off your internet connection after three accusations of copyright infringement—and deep-packet-inspection—which is akin to the USPS opening your mail. While we can not be sure exactly what is in the TPP, these examples are derived from a copy of the TPP’s IP chapter that leaked in February last year, the provisions that were reported to be part of earlier drafts of ACTA, and previous free trade agreements that the US has signed.

Protecting Incidental Copies. The TPP would provide copyright owners power over “buffer copies.” These are the small copies that computers need to make in the process moving data around. With buffer copy protection the number of transactions for which you would need a license from the copyright owner would increase a great deal. One impact of this could be that the music you stream from services such as Pandora could get much more expensive when rights holders demand higher license fees to compensate them for the “additional” copies.

Locking out the Deaf and Blind. The TPP would prevent the blind from reading DRM protected ebooks and the deaf from inserting closed captioning onto DRM protected DVDs. In the US, the Copyright Office has made rules in the past that allows the blind to break this DRM. But the continuation of these rules is not a guarantee. And the other TPP countries could fail to make similar rules.

And much more, e.g., provisions that would bar developing countries from buying generic drugs, etc.

Note, those provisions for extrajudicial resolution of disputes mean that a polluting corp. from China could, based on a decision made by corporate lawyers selected by corporations, impose the obligation to pay them for their lost profits upon the US gov't and hence upon US taxpayers! I understand similar provisions in NAFTA have already been enforced against us in favor of a Mexican company.

[ohheckyeah]

4. I'll reply to give this a kick...

we just got home after having our power out since Friday night so I'll have to take time to read the information about TPP later.

Thanks for the post.

[Scuba]

5. More light, more light.

[Brickbat]

6. K&R

[bluedigger]

7. All part of the planned transition to Corporate State Rule.

The Nation State is on the way out.

[ananda]

9. Scary.

Fuckin scary.

[whathehell]

118. You are right about that..

Obama is going along with this....WTF is up, would you say?

[JDPriestly]

11. And with Corporate State Rule, we get Corporate State War.

Think of that.

We already have the private, corporate armies. It's just a matter of time until we have private, corporate wars.

Unless we stop this "free" trade madness.

I don't think that I violate copyright laws. Unless using a public library is a violation.

Folks, use public libraries more, and internet downloads less. Please.

[BumRushDaShow]

16. Many cities are closing the libraries

because they are (purposely) starved for cash.

[chervilant]

17. hmm...

Do you get the impression that the vile, greedy corporate megalomaniacs aim to limit our use of the internet? If they can prevent our use of the inner tubes to disseminate vital information, we might lose any opportunity to effect global change, and stop the corporate hedonists.

[siligut]

23. Control of information and its dissemination? Never!

[freshwest]

109. Just repeating history (dial-up warning, large pic):

East India Company



Established in 1600, and it lasted nearly 300 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=East_India_Company&printable=yes#Founding

Shares of the company were owned by wealthy merchants and aristocrats. The government owned no shares and had only indirect control. The Company eventually came to rule large areas of India with its own private army, exercising military power and assuming administrative functions...

The Company was dissolved in 1874 as a result of the East India Stock Dividend Redemption Act passed one year earlier, as the Government of India Act had by then rendered it vestigal, powerless and obsolete. Its functions had been fully absorbed into official government machinery in the British Raj and its private army had been nationalized by the British Crown. In the modern era, its history is strongly associated with corporate abuse, colonialism, exploitation, and monopoly power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company

These associations, NGOs, etc. have always been behind the scenes, like religions. Many Americans (although not Democrats, who want a government 'of, by and for the people') have fully embraced this as their road to riches. Halliburton, Blackwater, EXXON and the rest of them don't hold a candle to this continuing system of control. We know how natives around the globe felt without all the natural splendor that once existed. We have been basking in the luxury of thinking humanity evolved beyond this...

BTW, don't shoot the messenger. I do NOT approve of the devolution of our country to be controlled by these groups, but it is well underway. Between those who refuse to vote or stay informed and those who know exactly what this beast is and support it, we're going to have a hell of time saving democracy in anything like the form we believed in.

Where do we fit into this? Is Occupy our only route to stop it, and will we? I fear many of us will ashes before this is gets going in the right direction, IMHO. Sorry, don't mean to be a downer, but history does not seem to side with us. I hate this and I'll get back when I have more faith.

[MannyGoldstein]

115. JD, have you noticed that certain frequent posters are totally absent from this thread?

Hopefully they're just busy and will weigh in tonight. I'm curious as to their point of view.

[chervilant]

172. hmm...

Haven't seen much of them myself (could be because so many are on my IL...).

[kenny blankenship]

179. Probably they have to be debugged before rebooting

or is it deloused?

[sad sally]

105. Onward to a regine of binding global governance...

This one could be the end, because what they intend to do is leave it open, once it’s done, for any other country to join. So, this is an agreement that ultimately could have the whole world in it as a set of binding corporate guarantees of new rights and privileges, enforced with cash sanctions and trade sanctions. It is not an exaggeration to say that the TPP threatens to become a regime of binding global governance...

[appal_jack]

8. K&R, n/t.

[rhett o rick]

10. I need to study this more. nm

[KoKo]

20. It's very alarming...but, there's no way of stopping it.

Still...it's better that we know than stick our heads in the sand.

[HomerRamone]

22. We HAVE to! nt

[KoKo]

40. Both parties are for it and the President is pushing it. Where would push back come from?

[HiPointDem]

58. +1

[MannyGoldstein]

111. So you ADMIT it's bipartisan

Our two parties have finally transcended the normal Washington bickering, but that's not good enough, eh?

[rhett o rick]

116. You drive me nuts.

I can never tell what you are up to.

[MannyGoldstein]

120. I drive myself nuts

Why shouldn't everyone else suffer, too?

[nadinbrzezinski]

140. Hey on the bright side

The revolt against the secrecy is bipartisan.

[MannyGoldstein]

141. That's different

In that case, it's the looney left being bff with the crazy right.

[nadinbrzezinski]

136. You want my notes?

No serious, I have notes on some of background, got more today

Public citizen and electronic frontier are good places to start.

[rhett o rick]

142. Thanks. I will take a rain check. I am not sure my psyche can handle it.

I have to be careful not to let my brain explode. But I will remember the offer.

[livvy]

12. From the interview...

This website has more info on TPP and lots more.

http://www.citizen.org/tradewatch

I just opened the page, it is loaded with info. This will take some time to go through all of it. From the interview this sounds like a really bad thing, just loaded with "laws" that would give corporations absolute control over almost every damn thing...drug pricing, environmental controls.

Off to read.

[GeorgeGist]

13. kick for the evening shift

[caraher]

14. I guess the bolder moves are harder to grok

The scope of this thing is just so vast it's hard not to have one's eyes glaze over. A good summary of threats from Public Citizen:

Have you heard? The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) “free trade” agreement is a stealthy policy being pressed by corporate America, a dream of the 1 percent, that in one blow could:

* offshore millions of American jobs,
* free the banksters from oversight,
* ban Buy America policies needed to create green jobs and rebuild our economy,
* decrease access to medicine,
* flood the U.S. with unsafe food and products,
* and empower corporations to attack our environmental and health safeguards.

[fasttense]

19. This T-Peepee will put an end to farmer's markets.

Most farmer's markets encourage local consumers to purchase from the local farmers, artisans and businesses. This would violate the strict mandates in the T-peepee to allow foreign and corporate competition in every aspect of our economy. China could bring a law suit to a group of unelected corporate lawyers called a Tribunal and would win a judgment against every farmer's market in America.

No more farmer's markets or, if they are allowed to survive, they will turn into just an outdoor Wal-Mart.

[Leopolds Ghost]

174. China could bring a lawsuit to a group of unelected corporate lawyers called the Tribunal

[TahitiNut]

21. Nations are now required to obey the mandates of global corporations.

It's no longer hidden or surreptitious. The global corporatists call the tune and nations fall in line.

[freshwest]

69. How many centuries has it been this way, really? They just didn't call them corporations, is all.

[sabrina 1]

71. And according to the leak on this, they write the laws and merely distribute them

to the legislators they bought off.

[raouldukelives]

25. This is scary stuff.

When will all the damned Wall St investors wake up? This ain't a fairy tale. It is what the overwhelming power of millions of supporters pushing for more profits, more unlimited growth to line their pockets with leads to. Every dollar invested is a vote for more of the same.

[lark]

26. More evidence Obama is not a liberal

I will hold my nose and vote for him, reluctantly, because he's better than Romney, but still, in his most of his policies, center right.

[tblue]

29. Heartbreaking.

But he signed Lily Ledbetter and, deep in his heart, he wants to do all the things we want him to do.

So that makes everything he does ok.

[Plucketeer]

30. You got that Right!

I will not vote for Obama - I will be voting (flailing) aginst Rmoney. More of a gesture than a move of substance.

[Remember]

34. We are screwed

Damn if we do and damn if we don't. That pretty much says where the 99 er's are. If Obama supports this then the argument that Democrats are different from Republicans don't hold water. The Democrat party will have to rebuild from a position of being behind the eight ball. Maybe it will be more important to make sure the candidate for any position in office especially the President reflects what Democrats are. Democrats used to care for the little guy while Republicans don't give a Damn!

[Larry Ogg]

56. It was obvious to me, the first time I ever heard Obama speak in the Presidential primaries, that...

Not only was he not a liberal, he was (and still is) a corporately owned conservative that had every intention of taking over, and continuing where Gorge Bush left off.

But what should one expect when the 99 percenters remain blind to the idea that the 1 percent is hand picking the majority of politicians that, (via campaign financing) most Americans will vote into elective office. And the 1% will never finance anyone who is going to rock the boat, or who is unwilling to do the bidding of the 1%.

It is an amazing thing to see and understand the psychology, as to how the deceptions of the ruling class can maintain the illusion of a two party pretend Democracy.

Of course, they could not do it without the help of a population that would rather not see what is right in front of their eyes; the premises of deceit are just too painful, and their ego ensures they believe in the lies that are the most comfortable.

At worse the people can always be counted on to hold their nose, and vote for who they think is the lesser evil.

[Leopolds Ghost]

175. It's all scientifically managed

Remember, we have the technology (and institutions have the necessary scale) to precisely manage public opinion, accounting for statistical anomalies such as freedom of choice, ideas and all that clap-trap -- all of which cancels itself out at a large scale, leaving only what is palatable to the organizations controlling the media and advertising -- which dictates how people respond to every facet of the world around them. A managed zeitgeist, if you will.

[Larry Ogg]

200. You are absolutely right it's managed.

And they use the main stream media (M$M) to guide peoples beliefs, thoughts, opinions, and freedom of choice.

I said a long time ago that the elections are stolen long before voting day, the theft begins with lies, and propaganda.

And if enough people don't vote the way their suppose to, the votes are simply altered.

Unfortunately, the malevolence behind it all is beyond the comprehension of honest people, fact is that, unless your a psychopath, you have to study it to see it, and you have to see it to believe it.

And once you see it, honest people will think your a crazy conspiracy theorist, at which time they, quite predictably I might add, become a self ordained censor of what ever uncomfortable truth you tell them.

[tblue]

28. We have to make Obama stop it!!!

Damn! If his admin picked up where Bushco left off, why can't they stop? Why not?!

[Speck Tater]

32. This is why we progressives just can't seem to make any progress.

It's always a case of "MY pet issue is THE MOST URGENT issue." And not only that, but everyone who doesn't jump on MY bandwagon is irresponsible, or is just not paying attention. How can so many people be ignoring a FIVE ALARM EMERGENCY?

And then the people pushing a particular issue are so sure that everybody knows all about their issue so that they don't even bother to give the NAME of the issue, or even mention a brief summary of the issue.

Well, MY pet issue is global warming which is WAY more important than your pet issue, because when the planet gets too hot none of us will have a TP to P in. And besides, I don't have a clue what TPP means.

[HomerRamone]

35. I don't have time to make every subject line perfect

Sorry about the shortcomings of my post. As it happens, MY pet issue is getting rid of the voting machines, because unless we do, there'll be no stopping the Trans-Pacific Partnership, global warming, or anything else...

[magical thyme]

41. you've had time to defend the title...twice

instead of simply editing it to include the name Trans Pacific Partnership....once.

Just sayin'....

gotta run. t-storm here!

[HomerRamone]

45. all right I'm out of here too

I've got health and money problems and I don't need this when I'M NOT THE ISSUE FOLKS

[KoKo]

48. Awww come on...you didn't have time to read the article so it's the poster's fault?

Sorry about your T-Storm...maybe you will have time to bone up on TPP later. It's really an important and wide-sweeping trade agreement which is important for all of us to at least know about.

Check out the video about it posted at #39.

[Speck Tater]

63. As many post as there being made on DU...

many people have to budget their time by deciding which links to follow. So like it or not we ALWAYS have to decide whether to follow a link or not BEFORE we follow the link. So if there isn't enough information in the post to tell whether or not it's something we are interesting in learning more about, then the default option is to not follow the link.

[magical thyme]

64. I never said I had no time to read the article

But a lot of people scan headlines and move on because they don't have time.

I'm only partly employed so unfortunately have plenty of time...the t-storm rolled in w/out warning. I was planning to read it asap, but suddenly the room got dark, I heard rumbling and my dog made a run for his crate. Time to get offline to protect my pc.

I agree it is an incredibly important issue. That is the point. Unfortunately, a lot of people give big dramatic headlines to what turns out to be not so big...or worse, their idea of a joke. So people can get jaded after a while.

Which is why such an important issue needs to be spelled out.

I wish I could check out the video, but am on dialup, so can't. I will, however, read the article shortly.

I am sorry for the OP's health and finance issues. I'm happily in good health, but have finance and (under)employment issues of my own, which is why I have (too much) time to read DU.

[KoKo]

47. The OP gave a good lead in for you to read the article. Quote from OP

This is a Job Loss enterprise like NAFTA on Bigger Scale...there have been articles on other sites about it and that's why many of us are alarmed.

QUOTE from OP:
---------

A recent leak of one of TPP’s most controversial chapters reveals that the pact would elevate individual corporations and investors to equal status with sovereign nations to privately enforce this treaty. U.S. negotiators are among the greatest champions of this “investor state” enforcement system. It would give any foreign firm incorporated in any TPP country new rights to skirt U.S. courts and laws, directly sue the U.S. government before foreign tribunals and demand compensation for financial, health, environmental, land use and other laws they claim undermine their TPP privileges.

After Obama’s election, U.S. trade officials were instructed to withdraw from the TPP negotiations Bush had launched – supposedly to sort out a new approach that implemented candidate Obama’s campaign commitments to fix the damaging old NAFTA model. But after a kabuki dance of ears-closed check-the-box “consultations” with a minimal number of congressional representatives and civil society groups, Obama’s trade officials picked up where Bush left off. Actually, they doubled down -- pushing even more extreme positions than the Bush administration on issues like Internet freedom and access to medicines.

[bbgrunt]

33. Is there ANY congressional pushback? k and r

[hay rick]

46. Wrote to my Senator, Bill Nelson-D, FL and this is what I got back.

"Thank you for contacting me regarding the proposed Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement between the United States and several other countries in Asia and Latin America.

I understand concerns about the transparency of the negotiation process and support greater public disclosure of trade proceedings.

If enacted, the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement will expand our access to growing markets in New Zealand, Brunei, Malaysia, Vietnam, and other countries. Even though the United States already has bilateral free trade agreements in effect with Chile, Singapore, Australia, and Peru, these agreements may be reopened within the framework of the new agreement.

Through several rounds of negotiations, the Administration has sought significant benefits for small and medium-sized businesses, such as regulatory reforms that are more compatible with practices in the United States. This will ensure that our businesses are not needlessly impeded by superfluous red tape when selling goods and services overseas..."

This garbage is clearly bipartisan.

[newfie11]

158. Thats more than I got from Ben Nelson (D) Nebraska

Just a form letter saying very little about TPP. He's on his way out anyway.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

37. Facebooked, tweeted, shared, bookmarked

Same response though - people are more interested in "Anderson Cooper says he's gay" - and that folks, is why we're in this mess.

[patrice]

38. Traction is acquired by attracting DU-ers to the Subject. You need to help. TPP is what?

Yes, I can click the link you posted and find out, but in an environment such as this (where I can click all kinds of OTHER links for things I know that I am interested in because the poster informed me enough to allow me to make that decision of whether to click or not) OP needs to promote what OP is posting about (and, incidentally, avoid the mis-perception that s/he is elitist because s/he uses jargon, e.g. TPP, without cluing the un-informed in) by telling us what exactly you are referring to with "TPP".

Conventional usage is to make at least one full reference to the official name of whatever and then switch to the acronym.

[HomerRamone]

43. I did not post about this before--it's not my posts that didn't get traction

At least this one is getting some attention despite its faults...

[hay rick]

39. Excellent video here:

&feature=player_embedded

Lori Wallach gives a great rundown.

TPP has been a subject of ongoing concern in the Labor group. Most extensively here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1117838

[KoKo]

42. Thanks....hopefully some here who wondered about TPP will watch it.

[nashville_brook]

128. Seder did a great job with this interview.

[hootinholler]

44. kick for later n/t

[sabrina 1]

49. You are correct. I suspect if a Republican was president this board would be on fire

over this. But 'there's an election coming up' and the flawed thinking that surfaces each time that happens, which is nearly every year, is that we should 'wait 'til after the election' to look out for the interests of the American people.

The PTBs know this so will always time their nefarious actions to ensure that at least half the country will turn a blind eye.

And the thinking could not be more flawed. Election is the THE best time to pressure politicians and this issue is harmful enough to the American people that people should be screaming from the roof tops.

We have two Democrats that I know of who have done just that, but we need a whole lot more.

Corporations writing Legislation in secret assuming all they have to do is pass it along to their stooges in Congress, who have abdicated their role as legislators, if that doesn't tell us who is really running this country, nothing does.

Stopping them would be a huge defeat for them and we should be grateful to the whistle-blower who revealed their secret plot.

Thanks for the post.

[Romulox]

50. This is primarily a "centrist" board; people here, by and large, SUPPORT unlimited free-trade.

Most people only demand protections for their own professions and livelihoods. Hence the pro-Toyota, anti-H1B brigade here is legion. As are the pro-Teachers' Union, anti-UAW brigade.

[KoKo]

53. Obama Administration Expands Controversial Trade Deal (TPP) after Damaging Revelations

(Press Release from Public Citizen re TPP)

June 18, 2012
Following Last Week’s Damaging Revelations About the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), the Obama Administration Expands Controversial Trade Deal

Following Last Week’s Damaging Revelations About the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), the Obama Administration Expands Controversial Trade Deal

WASHINGTON D.C. – That the Obama administration would invite an additional country to join the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) after last week’s leak of secret negotiating documents revealing the proposed pact’s threats is outrageous, Public Citizen said today.

Last week, after three years of closed-door negotiations, the text of the TPP Investment Chapter leaked, revealing that the Obama administration had agreed to submit the U.S. to the jurisdiction of foreign tribunals where foreign corporations would be empowered to challenge U.S. laws and demand unlimited compensation from the U.S. Treasury.

The revelation was met with criticism from the political left and right. However, the U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) refused to comment on the leaked chapter. Increasingly, members of Congress are raising concerns about the pact, including Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), chair of the Senate Finance Committee’s Subcommittee on International Trade, Customs, and Global Competitiveness, who has been denied access even to the U.S. proposals to the TPP negotiations.

Following the growing criticism of the administration’s lack of transparency and the newly revealed substance of the TPP, instead of the administration reconsidering the many TPP provisions that would vastly expand corporate rights and privileges, the administration’s response was to add yet another country into TPP talks: Mexico. Meanwhile, reports out of New Zealand indicate that China also is pursuing entry into this so-called trade deal.

“The TPP model is fundamentally flawed: It’s hard to imagine who in this country would support it if they knew that it banned ‘Buy American’ procurements, limited Internet freedom a la SOPA (the controversial Stop Online Piracy Act) or created a two-track judicial system privileging corporations with a new ticket to raid our tax dollars,” said Lori Wallach, director of Public Citizen’s Global Trade Watch. “Adding more countries just expands the potential threats of corporate attacks that the TPP poses to people here and now also poses to Mexicans.”

“Via closed-door negotiations, U.S. officials are rewriting swaths of U.S. law that have nothing to do with trade, and in a move that will infuriate left and right alike, have agreed to submit the U.S. government to the jurisdiction of foreign tribunals that can order unlimited payments of our tax dollars to foreign corporations that don’t want to comply with the same laws our domestic firms do,” Wallach said. “U.S. trade officials are secretly limiting Internet freedoms, restricting financial regulation, extending medicine patents and giving corporations a whole host of other powers.”
Opposition to the TPP is growing. Last month, 69 members of Congress sent a letter to President Barack Obama in response to revelations that TPP actually bans “Buy American” procurement rules.

http://citizen.typepad.com/eyesontrade/2012/06/following-last-weeks-damaging-revelations-about-the-trans-pacific-partnership-tpp-the-obama-administ.html

[Kaleko]

153. This is nothing short of the controlled demolition of the American nation.

Not to mention other nation states.

We're witnessing it in real time now.

[HiPointDem]

66. the pro-teacher anti-uaw brigade? could you point out an example? cause i think you made it up.

[Romulox]

76. I wish that I was making it up. No idea why you're leveling an angry accusation, however. nt

[HiPointDem]

81. i'm not angry. i just don't believe there's a 'brigade' of teachers who supports their own union

but is anti-uaw.

please link evidence.

[Romulox]

85. There's several. Quit badgering me into a call-out and search the board yourself. nt

[HiPointDem]

86. i am a strong participant in pro-teacher threads & have never seen anything like that. thus i ask

you to link a thread like that.

not asking you to call out particular posters. you said there was a "brigade".

what i've seen more of is the brigade of charter school shills, privatizers, and teacher-bashers. they're very evident.

[Romulox]

87. By the same token, I've never seen you speak up in favor of unionized autoworkers.

It's in threads about automobiles and autoworkers that I've primarily seen the enthusiasm for non-union product from several of DU's more vocal teachers' union advocates. In particular, there's a great thread on DU2 along these very lines.

what i've seen more of is the brigade of charter school shills, privatizers, and teacher-bashers. they're very evident.

There's a thread on the front page on DU right now about SUVs in which the love for Hyundais and Hondas flows most copiously. Like I said, I don't remember seeing you in that thread tisk tisking anyone.

So I guess we all tend to focus in on issues most dear to us, and sometimes miss others.

[HiPointDem]

89. you've missed my posts, then.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002601273

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002600557#post4

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002600557#post7

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=802972

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002884105

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002779609#post3

[Romulox]

90. I don't read even a fraction of the posts here, so I wouldn't presume to suggest someone is lying

when they relate their experiences here on DU.

Neither should you.

[HiPointDem]

91. i didn't. i said you missed my posts, and linked some of them. please stop accusing me of things

i didn't do.

i've provided evidence of my pro-autoworker posts. please provide evidence of the anti-uaw brigade's existence.

if you can't, i must perforce believe it doesn't exist, as i am a regular participant on the education threads & i've never seen it.

[Romulox]

92. You said "i think you made it up" (post #66.) I'm done with this song and dance routine. nt

[HiPointDem]

94. perhaps you could have linked evidence for your claim, as i did when you said you'd never

seen me support autoworkers.

sorry you're offended. i'm offended when people make false claims about teachers posting at DU.

[Romulox]

98. There's been no "lie", just sloppy accusations from you. Your hostility is mindless.

I'm not naming names, no matter how you bait. :lame:

[HiPointDem]

100. i asked you to link a thread, not name names. you can't. because threads where teachers

bash autoworkers and claim they don't deserve good wages and union benefits don't exist.

[Romulox]

102. I have one thread that sticks in my craw open right now (DU2). To link to it would be a call out in

itself.

"you can't. because threads where teachers

bash autoworkers and claim they don't deserve good wages and union benefits don't exist."

Yes, they do.

Why are you so fucking hostile?

[Romulox]

103. Anyhow, I'm done with you. You call me a liar in #66, and forget about it by #91.

Have some integrity (not to mention civility and decency.)

[HiPointDem]

149. no, i said i thought you made it up. i still do, as you offer no evidence. your display of injured

integrity doesn't move me.

[Romulox]

161. That is a PATHETIC walk-back. You are floundering.

And I don't believe YOU are sincere. Not after this display.

[HiPointDem]

191. lol. sure rommy.

[Romulox]

193. Indeed. In your month and a half here you have become an absolute moral authority on this site

Not to mention an absolute expert on all posts that have ever been made here.

[Romulox]

93. PS: "i must PERFORCE believe it doesn't exist"???

[HiPointDem]

97. not sure what your problem is with the word. "Adverb used to express necessity/inevitability"

per·force/pərˈfôrs/
Adverb:
Used to express necessity or inevitability: "amateurs, perforce, have to settle for less expensive solutions".

methinks you're clutching at straws

[Romulox]

99. You're hiding behind bluster and pretense to try to cover up your basic mistake of forgetting your

earlier post: "i think you made it up."



No more anger, please. I didn't make anything up, and I'm not calling anyone out. You can accept this or not. But I'm not lying.

[HiPointDem]

150. i still think you made it up. you're hiding behind bluster to avoid posting evidence supporting

your slam at teachers here.

when you post that evidence i'll apologize for saying you made it up.

[Romulox]

160. You've descended into self-parody. nt

[chervilant]

173. Wow...

Do you honestly think DUers 'by and large' support this assertion?

This is primarily a "centrist" board; people here, by and large, SUPPORT unlimited free-trade.

Most people only demand protections for their own professions and livelihoods. Hence the pro-Toyota, anti-H1B brigade here is legion. As are the pro-Teachers' Union, anti-UAW brigade.

Most of the responses to your post quoted hereinabove are negative. And, personally, I find your post offensive and insupportable.

You might consider taking a break, then rereading your exchange with HiPointDem. IMHO, you come across as defensive, accusatory, and condescending (for example, your frequent use of the emoticon).

BTW, I am a teacher and I am pro-Union--ALL unions. I do not support unlimited free trade. AND, I know that I am in good company on this site.

[Romulox]

192. Check out the SUV post kicking around the front page. The love for non-union labor flows there.

Easier to just call people liars and pretend the problem does not exist though.

You might consider taking a break, then rereading your exchange with HiPointDem. IMHO, you come across as defensive, accusatory, and condescending (for example, your frequent use of the emoticon).

The poster called me a LIAR.

[chervilant]

194. Yeah, sure...

Why am I not surprised?

[nashville_brook]

129. not true. not at all true.

[Romulox]

162. Check out the SUV post on the front page for all the Honda, Subaru, Hyundai (all NON UNION!)

enthusiasts.

[patrice]

51. Thank you. K&R and Shared.

[rosesaylavee]

54. K R

[Elwood P Dowd]

55. K&R (nm)

[freshwest]

57. We had this fight here in 1999, in every country. More globalization crap.

Last edited Mon Jul 2, 2012, 04:48 PM - Edit history (1)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=World_Trade_Organization_Ministerial_Conference_of_1999_protest_activity&printable=yes

Or we can go back to NAFTA. etc. during the Clinton era and IMHO, the prosperity of those years was the 'eating the seed corn' and not real prosperity.

Every time this gets argued, those who got screwed and those who made money and are still making it, short-circuits the discussion. NAFTA screwed a lot of people, but some made money. The WTO negated state laws against against child and prison labor and sweatshops, overturning state laws prohibiting the importation of the goods and we lost.

Because the USA is signed into these treaties to bring world populations to parity. National laws are not protecting us or other countries. Third world countries have been disrupted socially and economically as power and control over their natural resources continues to funnel up and out of reach of democratic safeguards.

But the catch, and there always is one.. Is that it is the less connected, the poor, the rural (including some in the USA) are being swept under the rug. Those with education, wealth families and their retainers, ruthless entrepreneurs, military, security or industrial groups welcome the opportunity to advance their wealth. We have plenty of these in the USA.

It was never just the treaties, no matter what mix of letters they named with; it is the system of unbridled capitalism that pushes this and it has many supporters in the USA. First, you convince them. If you can't, you learn to find your way. I'm sorry if that's not the answer you want in relation to this particular treaty, but having watched this for a score of years, it is not any worse than the others. What you have written has been going on.

Our progressive environmental and liberal social values discarded for these treaties since NAFTA 20 years ago. We have to get deeper to the problem, and that's a hell of a lot of work to do than just the one. Thanks for the thread to allow me to express my thoughts.

I am not saying to give up; I'm saying we have to focus on something bigger than just one treaty, they have been against our most cherished values. Unions are the best source of resistance we have.

But these are our values, and not shared by many Americans, apparently. It's a matter of educating people to some basic ideas that they currently resist, IMHO.

[KoKo]

67. +1

[whatchamacallit]

61. K&R! nt

[MannyGoldstein]

62. Why do you want Mitt Romney to be president?

Bringing this up now only serves to help Republicans win; we should keep secret everything we're embarassed about.

Besides, I TRUST this President to make the right decisions, whether it's secret death warrant lists, deregulating financial regulations, or sending jobs offshore. This bill is just a start; like Social Security (which originally covered only one person who was of course a white male) it can be improved later.

In case you didn't notice, he came into office facing a LOT of problems, and he can't fix them all at once. And he has a cute family and dog.

You purists and your ponies!

Regards,

Third-Way Manny

[Romulox]

78. Shoot, this will likely have "minimal" impact on workers--just like NAFTA! Er, right, Manny???

[MannyGoldstein]

121. Are you attempting to quote something that I wrote?

If so, let's see an actual quote.

[Romulox]

133. (Third Way?) Manny: "NAFTA caused a modest drop in the incomes low-skilled-workers". nt

[MannyGoldstein]

134. Do you disagree with that?

1. By what % did NAFTA cut the wages of lower-skilled workers?
2. Did I somehow say that was a *good* thing?

[Romulox]

163. Manny, it was a MASSIVE gaffe by you. Your refusal to move on shows you are COMMITTED to it.

What basis do you have to speak against TPP when you defend NAFTA.

And re your quiz: YOU made the claim. YOU have to source it.

[MannyGoldstein]

197. I never, never, ever, defended NAFTA. Not ever. Never.

I was against it when originally proposed, and against it every day since. A friend of mine is a friend of Larry Summers, and I've been known to regale our mutual friend with angry drunken anti-"free"-trade trade rants in drinking establishments. God forbid if I ever meet up with Summers himself, or any of the rest of the "free" trade scoundrels, they'll get an ugly mouthful from me.

Any reduction in wages from free trade is totally unacceptable, whether we agree on the magnitude of the loss or we don't. My calling it a modest drop is not in any way, shape, or form an endorsement or defense; I'm sorry if you understand it to be one.

[whatchamacallit]

80. +1 Nice nauseating recap nt

[sabrina 1]

152. Well you're third-way Manny, so of course you want to keep all of this secret.

Lol!

[magical thyme]

65. I don't get how a small agency can do this

and have it take effect and be enforced. It's so outrageous that it's hard to believe. But so much of what has been done to me, individually, since the supremes overrode the constitution and selected W to be pResident, that I could never have conceived of or believed, that it seems somehow possible. It's like waking up from a nightmare and discovering it's still going on...

"Also included are severe limits on government regulation of financial services, zoning and land use, product and food safety, energy and other essential services, tobacco, and more. The copyright chapter poses many of the threats to Internet freedom of the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA), which was stalled in Congress under intense public pressure."

[AzDar]

77. kick

[TeamPooka]

83. Time to put this in the spotlight...

shine the light everyone!
Share and share wide...

[TheKentuckian]

84. The posts sink because we have tons of "free traders" and more that will support

ANYTHING if it is done by those with a (D) next to their name and if you get a goodly amount of (D)'s onboard with anything then it must be double plus good even if all the (R)'s are also in support (must mean bipartisan super double plus goodness) or if the likes of Gingrich, Romney, Poppy, any number of Reich Wing think tanks, the Chamber of Commerce, Reagan, or even Dumbass Dubya hatched the plot.

Hence, the discussion just melts down to "Obama bad" pseudo taunts, the desire for Sarah Palin to be President, who wants a pony, who loved Hillary or Edwards, and various team and personality based arguments barely connected to the discussion.

It also is not being seriously discussed on M$NBC or CNN, isn't having the alarm rung on party fund raising emails, nor or the TeaPubliKlans attacking it which seem to be the primary drivers of discussion.

I'm all about trying to stop this shit. The discussion probably needs to next go to how and are we willing to do it? More broadly, what are we willing to do to deal with this entire area of government action? So far essentially nothing because we will not apply pressure on our party to do otherwise.

As usual our votes are preordained as are essentially our money and work. Our silence and unwavering support of each and every policy and action are also increasingly demanded, with some pledging that loyal support, no matter what they do will in time be reciprocated and that our unflinching backing of bad policy will eventually result in good policy, I guess like a gold watch after long service.
Support them in whatever they do and it will result in doing the polar opposite is a goofy ass political ideology but is constantly pushed. Support raising Social Security to 70 and your loyalty will be rewarded in due course by lowering it to 55 logic is not only weak but actually batshit crazytown.

Strongly worded letters aren't going to do shit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

137. Actually there is starting to be a small time revolt within the D's

regarding this... I got so much material it was literally chose what to include in the article for the magazine.

But seriously, starting with Wyden, who was refused access to the document, the revolt started. Something about isn't congress the one that ratifies treaties? Specifically the Senate? They are a tad disgusted and this is bipartisan. I got the letter here.

Not that this will be in the AP story on this mind you.

[Enrique]

88. thank you very much

and thank everyone who recced this thread. It gives me some hope, I've written my reps asking them to fight against this, but it seems kind of hopeless, Obama is a tough guy to beat, all those pictures of him saying "I've got this" have a lot of truth to them. So 100+ recs here give me some encouragement.

[WillyT]

95. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[hay rick]

96. Seems TPP is an embarrassment during "campaign season."

Hard to lead cheers for the lesser evil- especially on issues where there is no apparent difference.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

104. K&R and bkmrkd. thanks for the link.

[Blanks]

106. I think the administration should at least be able to speak its piece.

http://www.ustr.gov/about-us/press-office/fact-sheets/2012/june/transparency-and-the-tpp

[steve2470]

113. k&r nt

[joshcryer]

119. Sounds like a Libertarian wet dream.

[EverHopeful]

122. Thank you for posting this.

Last edited Mon Jul 2, 2012, 08:15 PM - Edit history (1)

I've been posting about this on Facebook but NOBODY seems the least bit interested. Not even my Republican relatives who are always going on about "New World Order," "U.S. Sovereignty," and "Taking Our Country Back," seemed to care that it would bring about all the things they've been so afraid of (but on reflection, they've probably stopped reading my posts long ago 'cause they're always about some "Librul b.s.&quot . Nobody seems to see that this is giving away our sovereignty--that as much as we struggle to elect representatives who uphold our values, it won't matter. No matter how hard we try to get our government to listen to us in terms of respect for the environment, respect for, and fair treatment of all our citizens (and all people), and respect for the rule of law (such as charging war criminals and Wall Street fraudsters), it won't matter. Our laws will be overruled. Maybe I've been coming across as some sort of "The-Sky-Is-Falling" crazy but it really is that bad.

At Alternet, TomThumbsBlues commented:

"Those who can stand to write their senators should demand that they debate this turkey in the Senate under their 'advise and consent' duty on treaties. And debate it as a treaty, not a bs 'trade agreement' to be fast-tracked through congress. Fast-track means limited debate and an up-down vote, exonerating the corporate politicians from any real responsibility."

Here's a link to a petition that deals with the internet surveillance aspects of TPP:

http://stopthetrap.net/

And here's a link to the Office of the United States Trade Representative page:

http://www.ustr.gov/tpp/

in case any of that helps.

Thanks again.

[KoKo]

130. +1...for your links for efforts to stop it..

[proverbialwisdom]

131. Some previous threads on TPP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101734456

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002643223

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002806354

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002723257

I'm looking for the previously posted letter from members of Congress, including my rep, but have to stop the search, although I have the printout, lol.


UPDATE: Here it is, http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=653340 .
Thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=648192

[nadinbrzezinski]

135. Hey just sent the article to editor

Where do you think I was all day? About three hundred people protested outside by the by.

[KoKo]

165. Nadin..Check out new Nation Article: "Nafta on Steroids" (Why don't we know about it)

Published on Tuesday, July 3, 2012 by The Nation
'NAFTA on Steroids': The Trans-Pacific Partnership
by Lori Wallach

The slight mainstream media coverage the TPP has received repeats the usual mantra: it’s a free-trade pact that will expand US exports. But trade is the least of it. The United States already has free-trade agreements that eliminated tariffs with most TPP countries, which highlights the fact that the TPP is mainly about new corporate rights, not trade. Besides, under past free-trade agreements, US export growth to partner countries is half as much as to countries with which we do not have such agreements. Since NAFTA and similar pacts went into effect, the United States has been slammed by a massive trade deficit, which has cost more than 5 million jobs and led to the loss of more than 50,000 manufacturing plants.

How could something this extreme have gotten so far? The process has been shockingly secretive. In 2010 TPP countries agreed not to release negotiating texts until four years after a deal was done or abandoned. Even the World Trade Organization, hardly a paragon of transparency, releases draft negotiating texts. This means that although the TPP could rewrite vast swaths of domestic policy affecting every aspect of our lives, the public, press and Congress are locked out. Astoundingly, Senator Ron Wyden, chair of the Senate committee with official jurisdiction over TPP, has been denied access even to US proposals to the negotiations. But 600 corporate representatives serving as official US trade advisers have full access to TPP texts and a special role in negotiations. When challenged about the conflict with the Obama administration’s touted commitment to transparency, Trade Representative Kirk noted that after the release of the Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA) text in 2001, that deal could not be completed. In other words, the official in charge of the TPP says the only way to complete the deal is to keep it secret from the people who would have to live with the results.

The goal was to complete the TPP this year. Thankfully, opposition by some countries to the most extreme corporate demands has slowed negotiations. Australia has announced it will not submit to the parallel corporate court system, and it and New Zealand have rejected a US proposal to allow pharmaceutical companies to challenge their government medicine formularies’ pricing decisions, which have managed to keep their drug costs much lower than in the United States. Every country has rejected the US proposal to extend drug patent monopolies. This text was leaked, allowing government health officials and activists in all the countries to fight back. Many countries have also rejected a US proposal that would forbid countries from using capital controls, taxes or other macro-prudential measures to limit the destructive power of financial speculators.

However, we face a race against time—much of the TPP text has been agreed on. Will the banksters, Big Pharma, Big Oil, agribusiness, tobacco multinationals and the other usual suspects get away with this massive assault on democracy? Will the public wake up to this threat and fight back, demanding either a fair deal or no deal? The Doha Round of WTO expansion, the FTAA and other corporate attacks via “trade” agreements were successfully derailed when citizens around the world took action to hold their governments accountable. Certainly in an election year, we are well poised to turn around the TPP as well.

To learn more and get involved, go to tpp2012.com.

MORE AT:

http://www.thenation.com/article/168627/nafta-steroids#

OR:

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/07/03-0

[nadinbrzezinski]

183. I'll answer this, promise nott to be too shocked

There was media, mostly small Indy media and my counterparts from Malasya.

The AP guy, never ever did background. I just wanted to confirm how bad this was from public policy. He was shocked I tell you , that members of congress had been told NYET, no access to treaty. Hey, at least Issa did not show, but I had a bunch of occupiers on look out for Issa with phone cameras.

I told them he would try.

That alone would have been worth it.

But what he wanted were quotes, I even told him that widen's press people confirmed that one to me, yes I called, I even quoted his statement I sent to the editor and linked to it. She said that she was shocked that small media knew, ap not so much

I've observed this several times, the larger they are, the less likely they will do background.

[bonzotex]

138. Kick/rec

We can only hope that with enough pressure from below, treaties like this can be derailed. People have a collective bad taste in their mouths from NAFTA. A bigger nastier "trade" giveaway could be rallying issue.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

178. Here's the job-transferring free-trade agreements that have been signed so far:

1994 - North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)
2001 - Jordan – United States Free Trade Agreement
2004 - Australia-United States Free Trade Agreement
2004 - Chile - United States Free Trade Agreement
2004 - Singapore – United States Free Trade Agreement
2006 - Bahrain – United States Free Trade Agreement
2006 - Morocco - United States Free Trade Agreement
2006 - Oman – United States Free Trade Agreement
2007 - Peru – United States Trade Promotion Agreement
2005 - Dominican Republic–Central America Free Trade Agreement (DR-CAFTA; incl. Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, and the Dominican Republic)
2011 - Panama - United States Trade Promotion Agreement
2011 - Colombia - United States Trade Promotion Agreement
2011 - Republic of Korea (South Korea) - United States Free Trade Agreement

[pacalo]

143. Here's a petition to sign "to make trade policies work for working families"...

http://action.citizen.org/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=11017

[whathehell]

154. Signed..Thanks. n/t

[AnotherMcIntosh]

148. K&R

[lonestarnot]

155. Sons of bitches!

[suffragette]

157. Was not aware of this. Found more info on Democracy Now

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/6/14/breaking_08_pledge_leaked_trade_doc

Scary stuff.

[KoKo]

159. Thanks for link...worth the watch.. n/t

[TheKentuckian]

170. You know this one stinks to high heaven and back

The usual suspects are silent as the depths of a winters night.

[sulphurdunn]

171. This is interesting,

and the question arises endlessly anymore: Does the federal government have the authority to suspend powers enumerated or rights asserted by the Constitution or to transfer such powers to unelected bodies, foreign or domestic without amendment except in time of foreign invasion or domestic insurrection and then only for as long as such an emergency lasts?

[sabrina 1]

181. That's a good question. And it seems few are interested in answering.

It looks like it's been established already but without consent from the American people. And another arises then, who has been representing the American people? Did the money spent to buy elections give the buyers the legal right to transfer powers to entities not even known to the American people?

[sulphurdunn]

198. To the extent government

is a marketable commodity, I suppose money does just that.

[KoKo]

201. +1

[kenny blankenship]

176. Oh he's just rope-a-doping them, dude

Lulling the corporate fascists into a false sense of security and then BAM - Nafta Disasta will get renegotiated, and we'll get our sovereignty back from the WTO and the GATT will be GONNE for goodd.

Chill the fuck out, yo - he's SO got this!

[AnotherMcIntosh]

177. You may be right about the general absence of "traction on DU for TPP." It may be due, in part, to

the way that it is described.

It is another wage-lowering, anti-union, let's-send-more-jobs-to-foreign-countries "free-trade" agreement. What better way to destroy more American jobs than to adopt and sign this?

Yet, for short-hand purposes, it is referred to as "TPP." Or, as a slightly more extended version, the "Trans-Pacific Partnership" agreement.

Where's the focus on the fact that it is another job-transferring "free-trade" agreement?

Here's the free-trade agreements that have been signed so far:
1994 - North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)
2001 - Jordan – United States Free Trade Agreement
2004 - Australia-United States Free Trade Agreement
2004 - Chile - United States Free Trade Agreement
2004 - Singapore – United States Free Trade Agreement
2006 - Bahrain – United States Free Trade Agreement
2006 - Morocco - United States Free Trade Agreement
2006 - Oman – United States Free Trade Agreement
2007 - Peru – United States Trade Promotion Agreement
2005 - Dominican Republic–Central America Free Trade Agreement (DR-CAFTA; incl. Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, and the Dominican Republic)
2011 - Panama - United States Trade Promotion Agreement
2011 - Colombia - United States Trade Promotion Agreement
2011 - Republic of Korea (South Korea) - United States Free Trade Agreement

Words and labels are important. If it is not described as another jobs-killing "free-trade" agreement, there are those who may not perceive it as such.

Incidentally, Rmoney is in favor of this:

Trans-Pacific negotiations have been taking place throughout the Obama presidency. The deal is strongly supported by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the top lobbying group for American corporations. Obama's Republican opponent in the 2012 presidential elections, Mitt Romney, has urged the U.S. to finalize the deal as soon as possible.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/obama-trade-document-leak_n_1592593.html

[KoKo]

187. Well...you can't get much more "Bi-Partisan" than this...can you?

[hay rick]

190. It's much more than another jobs-killing "free-trade" agreement.

It's a bill of rights for multinational corporations and other actors. Note that the U. S. already has free trade agreements in place with Chile, Singapore, Peru, Australia, Canada, and Mexico.

I think the relatively unenthusiastic attention to TPP on DU is a function of this site's stated position of support for the reelection of President Obama. Discussions of TPP reflect badly on the administration.

[Wind Dancer]

184. Thanks for posting.

K & R

[Kaleko]

195. Hugely important info here.

Kick!!

[Huey P. Long]

196. .

.

[nadinbrzezinski]

199. Here local nooz story

TRANSPACIFIC TRADE NEGOTIATIONS COME TO SAN DIEGO



More July 2012 Articles Business and Labor economics free trade labor NAFTA offshoring Pacific Rim Teamsters
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By Nadin Abbott
Photos Nadin Abbott

Conference sparks protests over proposed new free trade pact

July 2, 2012 (San Diego) -- The 13th round of negotiations for the TransPacific Trade Negotiations (TTP) is being held in San Diego at the Bayfront Hilton Hotel. This treaty will expand free trade across the Pacific Rim.

The proposal is supported by business groups, but has drawn sharp criticism from labor, health experts and other groups.

What is a free trade agreement? According to Professor Hisham Foad of the San Diego State University Economics Department "A free trade agreement is a treaty between two or more countries covering how trade in goods and services will be treated. In its simplest form, imported goods are treated identically to domestically produced goods within the free trade zone." As Foad pointed out in an e-mail to ECM, ideally this leads to the closest possible trade conditions among partners, leveling competition and trade between nations.

http://eastcountymagazine.org/node/10263

[krispos42]

202. Bernie Sanders is against it. That's good enough for me! n/t

[rbnyc]

203. k&r nt

[BrendaBrick]

206. kicking

For those who may have missed it the first time around. Too important to be kept out of the spotlight!