Well, what do we expect the police to do?

[ProfessorPlum]

I hear this question all over the media and sadly DU as well. A video emerges (because it has to be video before anyone gets upset about anything) with a police officer or a security officer tackling, beating, tasing, punching, wrestling, kicking, dragging, or otherwise pounding a part of a human being’s body into something solid.

The people who defend the police state, fascism, and authoritarianism show up and scratch their heads, and collectively ask, "Well, what do we expect the police to do? They issued an order, and the person didn’t obey them. Or didn’t obey them fast enough. Or didn’t obey them in the way they expected. Or walked away."

What do we expect the police to do? They issue orders, which the little fascists assume everyone must obey, and if they don’t obey, well, what can the police do? *scratches head* The only possible response in their minds is that the police or other authority figure must lay hands on them immediately, and grab and twist them, suppress and sedate them, taser and club them, bash them and beat them until compliance is achieved.

The actual answer to this question, and it applies to police dealing with black people, crazy people, dumb people, poor people, . . . . ALL people, is that we expect the police to TALK. To talk and talk and talk. To keep talking until they are blue in the face. To engage verbally. To establish and keep open communication. To create a dialog. To talk until an agreement or understanding can be reached. To talk, to talk, to talk. TALK.

THAT is what police officers or security officers or anyone else SHOULD DO if someone doesn't "comply" with their "orders". Unless someone is in immediate physical danger, you talk. Maybe in the end they will do what you want. Maybe you will find some other solution to the issue together. Laying hands on another person should be the ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT, and never done out of convenience or impatience. People's bodily integrity needs to be RESPECTED and MAINTAINED. This should be the number one criterion for judging how an encounter with law enforcement proceeds. Anything that breaches that integrity should be regarded as a failure, with attempts to change those encounters in the future.

There is a British show streaming on Netflix called “Happy Valley”. In the first episode, a distraught and not very bright young man is on a kids’ playground, threatening to light himself on fire. The protagonist, a middle-aged, working class, tough, and smart woman policeman . . . TALKS to him. She talks and she talks and she talks. And in the end, on this fictional show, the man’s life is saved, without a broken bone, without a crushed larynx, without a truncheoned leg. That is how a public servant needs to deal with a member of the public. Watching it, I thought with sadness how this encounter would end in the US.

[annabanana]

1. Yes... So much this. . . .n/t

[niyad]

2. THANK YOU

[Leith]

3. Even Better Than a TV Show

is what happened in real life:

[ProfessorPlum]

4. very calm

[LakeArenal]

15. Amazing... Only one person out of control and it's not the cops..

It's the same in London where the police don't carry guns..

[BobTheSubgenius]

23. Police work is a 'whole different kettle of fish,' as they like to say.

A friend of mine is a former cop from London. and he said their best weapon is the words they choose and the tone of voice they use. In the countless arrests he made over the years, he also said that he wouldn't need all the fingers on one hand to count the number of times he had to use his handcuffs.

There are, however, some civil liberties issues, and some of their standard practices would never fly on this side of the ocean. At least, not as of now; in a few years, who knows?

[meadowlander]

5. Protect and serve

including the person "causing" the problem.

[ProfessorPlum]

6. exactly right

sometimes they are the people that need the most help and care.

And don't even get me started on the number of deaf people who are brutalized by police for not "obeying".

[alarimer]

26. It's like they don't even consider that the person hasn't heard them

Or doesn't understand because of a language barrier or cognitive issues.

Or are having some kind of episode, physical or mental, in which they are in distress and so, can't really comply.

[ProfessorPlum]

35. That kind of situation can be extremely dangerous

And tragic.

[Heartstrings]

7. This is spot on...nt

[Corgigal]

8. Back in my day

And Im married to a retired cop, we would say this is a civil manner and can't help you. People would get so pissed. They didn't want to hire attorneys and go through a court system, but it's the correct answer in lots of cases. Including grabbing a man out of a airline seat. I saw no reason to escalate it to a criminal act.

Then people say, do you know how much I pay in taxes, blah blah. Understand what is civil and what is criminal would be a good place to start. Cops should know better, they are taught that and have direct communications with a district attorney for clarification. I have no idea why everything is now a criminal manner but I guess lots of voters wanted things handled that way.

[OrwellwasRight]

9. Brilliant!

Thanks for posting.

[athena]

10. Thank you!

Thank you for stating this, explaining it, and doing it all so beautifully.

[rivegauche]

11. Exactly right.

Here in New Mexico we had a horrible case of police abuse, when 2 cops shot and killed a homeless man for absolutely no reason. It was also filmed. And of course, when the trial came the cops got off.

[ProfessorPlum]

34. I think I may have seen that. Was it recorded?. Tragic.

[EarthFirst]

12. Conflict resolution & restorative dialogue training needs to be readdressed...

There is clearly a training gap that needs to be addressed.

[BadgerMom]

13. Teachers cannot use corporal punishment

Teachers must talk or change the environment or find some other way to solve a problem. I taught secondary school English. I never raised a hand or wanted to do so or knew of a peer who had done so. Teachers are authority figures who, as an integral part of their professionalism, must control people in many different situations. Require of police and ICE and others in authority what is required and mastered by now oft-reviled teachers.

[ProfessorPlum]

14. agreed. and that is a change for the better from the corporal punishment

of the past. They were still doing it when I was in school.

Glad saner heads have prevailed, and agree that LEOs need to be as flexible and smart as teachers in dealing with their charges.

[ProfessorPlum]

16. Should have been "police officer"

Not policeman, obviously

[LakeArenal]

17. Back in the "olden days"...

A standoff didn't mean shoot outs.. Cops used to try to talk to the aggressive "Perp" to see to see exactly why they were aggravated, what would the perp suggest as a solution, how realistic did the perp think that solution is, what options there are to solving, it's a negotiation. Cops didn't arrive on a scene and start muscling people around. If it took hours it took hours. United created and then escalated this situation for the sake of expediency.

This was a standoff, where no crime had even been committed. Just a customer standing up to a service provider. There have been so many analogies today.. This is mine... If I go to the bank and ask for my duly entitled money and the bank says "we can't do that today because one of the employees wants to use it for his overdraft, you can have it tomorrow.." We would see a stand off.. Even if they said to me, "in the 37,000 word contract you signed when you opened up your account says that we can.." It would be a stand off.

I have watched you fight the good fight on this subject all day ProfessorPlum..

Some folks just aren't going to get it.. Until it happens to them.

[ProfessorPlum]

19. And even then, they will be well trained to consider

"What they did wrong" to deserve their corporate assault.

What a neat trick corporations have pulled

[SalviaBlue]

18. K&R

[aggiesal]

20. European police are required ...

1) To have an advanced degree.
2) Are paid very well.

Until this happens here, expect more of the same.

[lunatica]

21. Yeah but when she needs to she can truly kick ass, as she did to her son-in-law

when he was about to douse his own son (her grandson) with gasoline. I love that show. I love her character!

[ProfessorPlum]

22. I do too

And I fell in love with that character when I saw her talk that guy down, without a shot fired, without a punch thrown.

I thought, now that is real policing.

[alarimer]

24. Many Americans are authoritarians or authoritarian followers.

Even progressives and Democrats. But we have our share of law and order types.

I watch the show Colony and think to myself that it is a realistic depiction of how people would actually act. Most would just put their heads down and do what they were told. Some would actively collaborate, but only a few would resist.

If you did a poll on this website, though, about a hypothetical invasion, most people here would say they would be in the resistance. That is in fact a lie. We would have our share of collaborators, or people who would go along to get along. I would probably be in the last group myself, since I am a physical coward. I would just want to bide my time until it was over.

But most people imagine themselves resisting the Nazis (or aliens, or whomever) with all their might. But it's a fantasy and would not be true.

And I think a fair number of people actually think cops are mostly good, despite evidence like this to the contrary.

If you have a chance, I recommend some recent episodes of the podcast Radiolab that deals with police shootings. In one of them, they interview a police chief in Florida (I can't remember where) who prefers to hire veterans because they do not panic when in risky situations. As a result, there are very few negative interactions in his community, when compared to other, similarly-sized places.

I suspect police training is entirely inadequate. Community policing is a thing of the past as well, when the cops actually knew the areas they served in.

[ProfessorPlum]

25. Great insights.

I make no claim on whether the cops in this situation are inherently good or bad...but I take great issue with the decision they made, the harm they caused, and their training.

[mythology]

27. Well if you saw it on a TV show

By refusing to leave he was impeding everybody else. You can go ahead and call people fascists (with all the same meaning as Republicans calling people communists or socialists) but you aren't interested in actually discussing the merits, just childish name calling.

[ProfessorPlum]

28. He probably deserved to be killed

"Impeding" being the horrible crime that it is.


Wouldn't want people to throw their bodies on to the gears of capitalism. It might slow down the gears!

[ProfessorPlum]

29. And I'll point out that you are the one who self-identified

With the fascists in my post. Nobody did that to you.

[Hekate]

30. YES, THANK YOU

[beam me up scottie]

31. Well said. Recommended.

[IronLionZion]

32. Happy Valley Clip

I didn't find the one mentioned in the OP.

[ProfessorPlum]

33. I looked for the clip I was talking about, too

Wish I could have found it.