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steve2470

(37,457 posts)
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 09:45 AM Apr 2017

This map shows the US really has 11 separate 'nations' with entirely different cultures

(posting for discussion)

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-11-nations-of-the-united-states-2015-7



In his fourth book, "American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures in North America," award-winning author Colin Woodard identifies 11 distinct cultures that have historically divided the US.

"The country has been arguing about a lot of fundamental things lately including state roles and individual liberty," Woodard, a Maine native who won the 2012 George Polk Award for investigative reporting, told Business Insider.

"[But] in order to have any productive conversation on these issues," he added, "you need to know where you come from. Once you know where you are coming from it will help move the conversation forward."

Here's how Woodard describes each nation:

(much more at link above)

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This map shows the US really has 11 separate 'nations' with entirely different cultures (Original Post) steve2470 Apr 2017 OP
I would carve out a section of central FL around Orlando ExciteBike66 Apr 2017 #1
+1 nt steve2470 Apr 2017 #2
+1, n/t RKP5637 Apr 2017 #3
In what subdivision? Baitball Blogger Apr 2017 #7
Casselberry! kydo Apr 2017 #38
I'd also carve out a section for Atlanta steve2470 Apr 2017 #4
You rarely meet people in Atlanta who are from Atlanta... Phentex Apr 2017 #22
I'm sorry; NYC has nothing in common with northern New Jersey.... brooklynite Apr 2017 #5
true, should be carved out also nt steve2470 Apr 2017 #6
True northern NJ has better pizza and sushi aikoaiko Apr 2017 #11
Northern New Jersey is NYC's version of rural outpost. Squinch Apr 2017 #15
As a kid growing up in Manhattan, HockeyMom Apr 2017 #30
As a kid growing up in Queens meow2u3 Apr 2017 #35
True that HockeyMom Apr 2017 #37
More seriously I think northern NJ is culturally NYC. aikoaiko Apr 2017 #16
It's really a fascinating book and makes a strong Hortensis Apr 2017 #25
LOL. True that! It's almost as foreign as Brooklyn... DanTex Apr 2017 #43
Nope, if it ignores urban/rural it's incorrect Amishman Apr 2017 #8
Agreed. I think of Lancaster as the begnning of the Midwest. 3_Limes Apr 2017 #20
lol.. disillusioned73 Apr 2017 #21
We just moved to Poconos (Monroe County) HockeyMom Apr 2017 #31
You're not far from me. I live in the Lehigh Valley meow2u3 Apr 2017 #36
We have bagels places, but not good HockeyMom Apr 2017 #39
Why aren't LA and San Diego included in the Left Coast? Ain't nobody taking my Left Coast. chia Apr 2017 #9
Actually, L.A. is showing up in that light blue Mexico area. Iggo Apr 2017 #13
It does say El Norte and I'm good with that, but we're still the Left Coast chia Apr 2017 #17
A useful categorization for understanding differences aikoaiko Apr 2017 #10
I live in the Midlands treestar Apr 2017 #12
That thing they call The Far West is actually The Near East. Iggo Apr 2017 #14
Wisconsin is wrong, definitely not to be included in AJT Apr 2017 #18
If education were valued, they would... 3catwoman3 Apr 2017 #32
Exactly AJT Apr 2017 #33
Las Vegas, NV should probably be part of El Norte cagefreesoylentgreen Apr 2017 #19
Much more accurate than traditional North/South or Red/Blue MedusaX Apr 2017 #23
I read this book a few years ago. scarletlib Apr 2017 #24
The author must have unusually restrictive definitions of what constitutes a culture FBaggins Apr 2017 #26
There are very few nations Locutusofborg Apr 2017 #27
As a Red Sox fan I'm offended Boston is in Yankeedom Takket Apr 2017 #28
LOL! Even here on DU where we mostly agree, we are squabbling about borders. Binkie The Clown Apr 2017 #29
At LEAST 12 Nations! Runningdawg Apr 2017 #34
My family is clearly "Far West," even the San Francisco branch. hunter Apr 2017 #40
Philadelphia is "Midlands"? Barack_America Apr 2017 #41
any more comments ? nt steve2470 Apr 2017 #42

ExciteBike66

(2,294 posts)
1. I would carve out a section of central FL around Orlando
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 09:47 AM
Apr 2017

and make it part of Yankeedom. I know way more New Yorkers here than I do Floridians...

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
4. I'd also carve out a section for Atlanta
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 09:53 AM
Apr 2017

I'm not sure what to call it, but Deep South seems not accurate for Atlanta proper.

aikoaiko

(34,154 posts)
16. More seriously I think northern NJ is culturally NYC.
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 10:27 AM
Apr 2017

It's not that different from the outer boroughs.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
25. It's really a fascinating book and makes a strong
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 11:45 AM
Apr 2017

case that the culture of the earliest colonizers had an outsize effect, a stamping, that endures and continues to shape regional cultures right up to today. Not that strange when you think that only 5 generations takes my family back to the revolutionary era (though in Europe). Or that attitudes toward, for instance, freedom, equality and social structure have been very different in northern and southern European regions for many centuries and were brought to different regions here.

Here's his introductory description for New Netherland from his 2011 article, "A Geography Lesson for the Tea Party."

New Netherland
Established by the Dutch at a time when the Netherlands was the most sophisticated society in the Western world, New Netherland has displayed its salient characteristics throughout its history: a global commercial trading culture— multiethnic, multireligious, and materialistic—with a profound tolerance for diversity and an unflinching commitment to the freedom of inquiry and conscience. Today it comprises Greater New York City, including northern New Jersey, western Long Island, and the lower Hudson Valley. Like seventeenth-century Amsterdam, it emerged as a leading global center of publishing, trade, and finance, a magnet for immigrants, and a refuge for those persecuted by other regional cultures, from Sephardim in the seventeenth century to gays, feminists, and bohemians in the early twentieth. Not particularly democratic or concerned with great moral questions—it sided with the South on slavery prior to the attack on Fort Sumter—it nonetheless has found itself in alliance with Yankeedom in defense of a shared commitment to public-sector institutions and a rejection of evangelical prescriptions for individual behavior.

http://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/novdec-2011/a-geography-lesson-for-the-tea-party/

Amishman

(5,553 posts)
8. Nope, if it ignores urban/rural it's incorrect
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 10:02 AM
Apr 2017

I live in rural Lancaster county PA, and other than the Eagles and cheese steaks, people here have nothing in common with Philly metro area.

3_Limes

(363 posts)
20. Agreed. I think of Lancaster as the begnning of the Midwest.
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 10:53 AM
Apr 2017

It's got much more in common w/ Ohio than it does SE Penna.

(But for the authors purposes I guess there's only so many divisions you can make w/out confusing people. Although, I'd like to see a more detailed map myself. W/ the urban and suburban areas more clearly pulled out.)

 

disillusioned73

(2,872 posts)
21. lol..
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 10:55 AM
Apr 2017

Same here - I actually thought we weren't as red as we really are until about 2009 and the ugliness began.. people around here lost their collective minds when Obama was elected..

 

HockeyMom

(14,337 posts)
31. We just moved to Poconos (Monroe County)
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 01:25 PM
Apr 2017

Learning that the majority of people are from NY and NJ, and many are commuters back there. NY Pizza. NY Bagels. NY Yankees stuff in stores. Only thing you might see are Philly Cheese Steaks, but not as much as the NY food items.

Tried to find a German restaurant here. Not happening unless we drive to Lancaster maybe?

meow2u3

(24,757 posts)
36. You're not far from me. I live in the Lehigh Valley
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 02:34 PM
Apr 2017

There are many people from NY and NJ, including some my own neighbors, and we banded together.

In Nazareth (outside Easton), there are some pizzerias, including one whose owner settled in NY from Italy. But I've yet to find bagel outlets where I am. It's still predominantly Pennsylvanian here.

 

HockeyMom

(14,337 posts)
39. We have bagels places, but not good
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 02:59 PM
Apr 2017

Bagel Experience in Brodheadsville is the closest to NY Bagels. Long drive but worth it. Big, fresh, and freeze well so we buy in quantity.

Still haven't found ANY German Restaurants though; good, bad, or otherwise. Whenever I ask locals for restaurant recommendations, they always tell us to go to Allentown. lol

chia

(2,244 posts)
9. Why aren't LA and San Diego included in the Left Coast? Ain't nobody taking my Left Coast.
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 10:08 AM
Apr 2017

The Left Coast doesn't stop mid-California.

Iggo

(47,534 posts)
13. Actually, L.A. is showing up in that light blue Mexico area.
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 10:22 AM
Apr 2017

(I think it says "El Norte&quot

chia

(2,244 posts)
17. It does say El Norte and I'm good with that, but we're still the Left Coast
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 10:38 AM
Apr 2017

I feel marginalized.

aikoaiko

(34,154 posts)
10. A useful categorization for understanding differences
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 10:14 AM
Apr 2017

Obviously there are pockets of people who are inconsistent with the broad classes, but still such a map may provide some insight to people who have never left their enclave or thought about cultural differences within the US.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
12. I live in the Midlands
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 10:18 AM
Apr 2017

a very strangely shaped country. Delaware, Maryland and the Oklahoma panhandle? The Eastern parts of Nebraska and Kansas? Doesn't seem like a logical cultural one-ness.

MedusaX

(1,129 posts)
23. Much more accurate than traditional North/South or Red/Blue
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 11:29 AM
Apr 2017

So much of today's nightmare of a political reality stems from the disconnect between the physical electoral districting/representation construct and the actual distribution pattern of constituents with similar representational desires.

As for the accuracy of the author's various locational characterizations, I can only speak to that of 'El Norte', which is spot on.

I think that it is important to note that, while the author's concept is somewhat based on connections between those who initially established areas and the current residents, the author has not used the traditional demographic identifiers (age, race, religion) as a basis of commonality.

IOW, now might be a good time to put aside the traditional demographic based profiling practices when developing strategies to identify & connect with voters.

scarletlib

(3,410 posts)
24. I read this book a few years ago.
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 11:45 AM
Apr 2017

The author is a good writer and the book really holds your attention. I learned a lot from reading it.

FBaggins

(26,714 posts)
26. The author must have unusually restrictive definitions of what constitutes a culture
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 12:00 PM
Apr 2017

I live on the border between "Tidewater" and "Greater Appalachia"... yet the area is culturally not at all like the actual Tidewater area (used to live there) or DFW in Texas (relatives in the area).

Lots of similar examples can be made.

Locutusofborg

(524 posts)
27. There are very few nations
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 12:13 PM
Apr 2017

that can't be similarly subdivided. In addition to the author's divisions, there are 562 federally recognized American Indian Nations (variously called tribes, nations, bands, pueblos, communities, rancherias and native villages) in the United States. Approximately 229 of these ethnically, culturally, and linguistically diverse nations are located in Alaska; the rest are located in 33 other states.
There is a sovereign nation that occupies a 75 mile long stretch of the Mexico-Arizona border. The Trump administration will need to negotiate with the Tohono O’odham sovereign nation to build on their territory. To date the government of that nation hasn't just said "no" to the wall, they've said "HELL NO!"
In my state of California as you get close to the Oregon border you will see signs for "The state of Jefferson." The conservative far north has already symbolically seceded from "liberal" California.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
29. LOL! Even here on DU where we mostly agree, we are squabbling about borders.
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 12:49 PM
Apr 2017

"The border should be here."
"This region should be included in that."
"We need a separate region right there."
"Austria belongs to Germany."
"Russia must include the Ukraine."

Oh wait. I got a little carried away with those last two, but you get the picture.

(As a Left Coaster myself, I don't much care what you other foreigners do with your own countries.)

Runningdawg

(4,509 posts)
34. At LEAST 12 Nations!
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 02:26 PM
Apr 2017

I didn't see NA reservations represented on that list. I am from the Osage reservation in NE OK. Our culture is not that of Appalachia! What a crock of BS.

hunter

(38,300 posts)
40. My family is clearly "Far West," even the San Francisco branch.
Wed Apr 12, 2017, 08:23 PM
Apr 2017

I was just looking through a few old family photos, matching them up to current google street views, and I discovered my great-great-grandfather's house in San Francisco is still standing, and it sold for 1.8 million dollars last year.

When my dad's aunt sold the house many, many years ago, before I was born, it was not that special. The house probably looks better now than it ever did, even new. It's a painted lady.

My last immigrant ancestor (and one of my few documented ancestors) was a mail order bride to Salt Lake City. She didn't like sharing a husband so she ran off with a monogamous man and they homesteaded land that's still a long ways from the nearest WalMart.

Most of my immigrant ancestors didn't want anything to do with Europe, the East Coast, or the U.S. Civil War. Apparently they jumped off the boats and otherwise ran into the western wilderness. Their descendants emerged a generation or two later as ranchers and dairymen, some of them with fanciful tales of respectable European heritage, and nobody confessing (in public at least) to the impressed sailors jumping ship, the bastards, the draft dodgers, the Irish radicals fleeing the English hangman, or the ordinary poor and ragged people just struggling to survive and risking everything in their escape to America.

I find it a little disturbing that it's possible to prove and disprove some of my ancestor's tales with an internet search, sitting here at my desk. It seems we've given up some of our freedoms by stashing all that documentation into giant computer databases.

You can hardly leave the U.S.A. anymore without it being recorded somewhere. A few years ago my brother and his wife were driving into Mexico. The U.S.A of course takes photos of you and your car as you are leaving and your license plate number is automatically added to a database. My brother, who is a either a cowboy or biker depending upon which way the wind is blowing (and looks the part so well he's played bit parts as rough cowboys and bikers on television), flipped off the border cameras as they were driving into Mexico. Our border guards, who are not known for their sense of humor, pulled him aside when he re-entered the U.S.A. and gave him eight hours of shit, probably because he dis'd their authority.

We're living in the dystopian "Papers Please" society today, a dystopia we U.S. Americans once claimed to despise. Orwell's 1984 arrived through the side door, and it's because so many of us are cowards.

My grandfather had different birthdays and names on his California Driver's License, his military records, and his Social Security, which caused my dad a lot of trouble when my grandpa passed away. My grandpa was born at home, no witnesses outside the family, and being an incorrigible sort (like my brother) his parents sent him off at age 16 (plus or minus a few years) to live with an uncle in Wyoming. I think he was the last generation who could successfully recreate themselves, names, birth dates, birth place, etc.. It's not that he was a duplicitous man especially, he was after all an Army Air Force Officer in World War II, and later an engineer on the Apollo Project (because he'd acquired a knack for working titanium and other exotic metals in ways that will never be explained), it's just that sometimes he felt the need to reinvent himself.

I live now in a city that's primarily Mexican American. 40% of the schoolchildren don't speak English at home. Everyone has undocumented friends and relatives. White guys like me are not a majority, but we are still privileged. The guys in charge of most institutions and large businesses tend to be white men, very protective of their boy's club, even if they are unaware of that. (Somehow white guys are always more qualified than anyone else whenever there's an opening at the top.) They don't tend to live in the city, but in gated communities in the hills overlooking the city, and pity is they don't see anything unusual about that, even those who consider themselves liberals.

My wife and I live in a neighborhood of skilled tradespeople, nurses, teachers, etc., sandwiched between places where the homeless people live under tarps and very well managed subsidized housing. I like it here, it's real, I like the sound of Mexican music Friday and Saturday nights. We all have bad dogs (mine howl at police sirens), our next door neighbor's have a sweet pit bull not raised to hate, and other neighbor's little yappy Mexican purse dogs who think they are rottweilers and I hear them barking right now.

I don't think I'd be comfortable in my great-great-grandfather's house today. Wealthy people live there. The cowboy is strong in me.

On the other hand, as a lefty left coaster, I think a few of those BLM sagebrush rebellion occupiers and their supporters ought to have been threatened with hanging.

I like to think most of the cowboys and hunters in my family respect the land and don't want to see it degraded, and are willing to contribute their fair share in maintaining it and exclude the takers.






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