Trump's lawyers fought feverishly to prevent forensic audit of voting machines in PA MI WI

[L. Coyote]

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Bernardo de La Paz]

1. tRump is the Minority President. A minority that gets ever smaller. . . . nt

[mountain grammy]

2. A hacked and stolen election.

I'll believe it until the day I die.

[L. Coyote]

4. The numbers are with you all the way.

[triron]

49. Thanks for reposting.

[dhill926]

5. yep....and evidently the new normal...

until we can charge and convict the bastards...

[BigOleDummy]

7. Count me too

... stolen right under our noses, and a certain Traitorous segment of our population is complicit.

[ananda]

12. Agree...

And I get so tired of all the handwringing and processing of Clinton's
"flawed" campaign and so-called "loss."

I have always thought her campaign was just fine; and that she would
have made a good president.

And from the night of the election, I thought something fishy was going
on in those swing states because Clinton was leading and so were the
Dems running for senate.

[mountain grammy]

20. Her campaign could have been better.

here in Colorado.. ad after ad, dark and terrifying showing trump.. well he is dark and terrifying, but when you see it 100 times a day you stop paying attention.

I longed to see positive Hillary ads and contacted local Dems often about it.. show her with her grandkids, show her facing down Putin, show her as a leader for women's rights around the world. We saw far too few of those.

But, in no way ever do I blame the campaign for this loss. The election was hacked and stolen in the swing states, down ticket too.

[radical noodle]

23. We had positive ads here in Florida

Great ads with Hillary sitting there in a plain blue shirt simply saying how she wanted to make things better... most. of them economic messages (which they still claim she didn't have).

[mountain grammy]

27. and, like I said, I don't blame the campaign.

It was important to show trump for what he is. Just my observation from Colorado, which did go blue, thankfully.

[radical noodle]

31. And Florida did not

or at least we don't think it did. Congrats on Colorado being blue!

[mountain grammy]

33. Ha. That's the thing.

I'll never believe it didn't and Colorado was way too close. Fuckery going on everywhere.
Hacked and stolen.

[triron]

50. Florida was stolen.

[tavalon]

85. Florida has this bad habit

They need independent overseers for all elections. I can't believe I started my adult life in Florida. Don't miss it.

[ananda]

80. And whose couldn't, really ...

Just consider that Clinton's campaign was a hundred thousand times
better than Trump's, and she was leading in all three of those swing
states up to the day of the election, as were Feingold and McGinty.

[mountain grammy]

84. Excellent point, and you're right.

Her campaign was a hundred thousand times better than his, but he "won." But I'll never believe he really did win WI, PA, or MI, even FL.. so it really didn't matter. It was a stolen election.

[pandr32]

30. With you 100%

Ditto for criticisms of the Party. We have so many excellent outspoken members who are standing up to the Republicans and their attempts to sweep the Russian hacking of our election under the rug, and speaking out against the harm that is occurring as the Republican Party attacks education, the EPA, health care, Planned Parenthood, voting rights, minorities, secularism, financial regulations, food assistance, unions, equality, the climate crisis, our public lands protections, women, and on and on.

[L. Coyote]

58. YES. 2004 mean exit poll disparity 1.45%, 2016 red shift 3.5%, 20 competitive Senate races 4.7%

Everyone screamed bloody murder when in 2004 Ohio was over 3%, 2016 over 8% and not a peep.



This crap gets normalized when they create a house of smoke and mirrors 24/7/365, and generate a new shiny ball distraction every day while drowning everyone in too many things to oppose at once. Shock and awe politics has become the new norm, along with treat the other party as the enemy and punish the shit out of them when in power, take extreme revenge.

[mythology]

61. How many times do people need to be told exit poll conspiracies are junk?

https://www.thenation.com/article/reminder-exit-poll-conspiracy-theories-are-totally-baseless/

Also the election wasn't based on popular vote Maki get your graph rather off point on the election.

[L. Coyote]

66. How many times do people need to be told statistics is a science, not mythology?

You cannot broad-brush statistics out of the picture. The real world is more complex than your short, simple sentence of denial.

[tomp]

81. who made you the arbiter of the exit poll debate?

you post an article from the nation as if it is gospel.

try debating with fitzrakis and see how you do.

[L. Coyote]

93. Want to Know if the Election was Hacked? Look at the Ballots

I'm not "the arbiter of the exit poll debate" but I did learn statistics in graduate courses and I am part of a community of academics involved in election integrity.

Unlike some people, I don't dismiss entire fields of science in ten word sentences.

Link to tweet

[tomp]

96. sure seems like you are setting yourself up as the arbiter.

just because you refer me to another article doesn't mean you, or the other guy, or the nation are correct.

I was not aware until this thread that such disagreements about the vote rigging existed.

I don't claim to to have the answers to this argument but you seem to be claiming you do by siding with the nation over fitzrakis. you also seemed to missed my suggestion that you argue with fitzrakis, and by implication, not with me.

what is absolutely clear is that both the pre-election polls and the exit polls were at variance with the reported official tallies. however you look at it there is something wrong and the official tallies are virtually guaranteed to be wrong (in clinton's favor).

instead of infighting, why don't all you experts combine your talents and work together in a spirit of advancing the cause of election reform?

[Susan Calvin]

87. Well even The Nation is not 100% perfect. nt

[Butterflylady]

75. That's exactly what happened in PA

Katie was running ahead of a**hole Toomey all night, then all of a sudden Toomey pulls it off. My husband always said something just didn't smell right. We fully believe it was hacked.

[FakeNoose]

90. Yes I'm in PA and I saw it too

I believe the GOP has learned how to hack the Deibold voting machines. (the computerized machines)
This needs to be seriously looked into, and of course the Republicans will never agree.

I believe they've used it sparingly but only when/where it really mattered, like in the PA general election.
Katie and Hillary were both robbed in PA.

[BadgerMom]

10. You and me both.

Immediately after the election a lot of Dems didn't think Trump/Russia was worth investigating either. I have believed since autumn that those hacks were more than exploratory and more than data mining. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want. I prefer skeptic.

[kytngirl]

11. You and me both.

[Bettie]

13. I will too

we may need to go back to pen and paper with hand counting to ensure an accurate count.

[maddiemom]

35. We DO need to go back to pen and paper and hand counting!

I, for one, can stand to wait for late election night or early the next morning to get the results. I don't need to hear the winner while the west coast is still voting. First, however, we need to get rid of the electoral college. Two popular vote presidential wins negated in just sixteen years is way too many.

[Bettie]

44. Agreed

EC is a relic of the past. We no longer need it....probably didn't need it at the time.

Add to that the fact that it has been shown to us in no uncertain terms that it does not do what it was supposed to do! We got precisely the guy the people who support the EC said it was there to prevent.

[calimary]

21. Yep.

I suspect this is the only way the GOP can win anymore.

This is the SECOND stolen election that snatched them the White House. bush/cheney was the first.

The bad guys can only win when they CHEAT.

[Cartaphelius]

48. Second? Check you math....

Nixon 1968 - Met with N. Vietnamese prior to elections for the purpose of winning

Reagan 1980 - Negotiated with Iran for the release of American Hostages..

[calimary]

59. Welcome to DU, Cartaphelius!

Yep, again. You make TWO worthy points.

Fucking reagan made sure the hostages were kept ON hold and IN hold until he took the oath of office at noon on January 20th. Thank you James Baker.

And Nixon, too, wheeling-and-dealing to hold off peace so he could get elected. Thank you Henry Kissinger.

And, ironically enough, two more republi-CONS. STOLE their way into office.

[L. Coyote]

60. And, G. W. Bush counts as twice! 2000 black voter caging in Florida, 2004 vote-switching in Ohio.

No to mention not counting the votes that were allowed to be cast in Florida, because the voter caging still fell short, and needing the Supreme Court to overturn the People.

[calimary]

72. And don't forget the flagrant conflict-of-interest in BOTH Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004.

BOTH secretaries-of-state - the state officers who had jurisdiction over elections and voters and all the machines and maneuverings thereof - just happened to be the state chair of the republi-CON party. Gee. What a coinky-dink.

[world wide wally]

3. It just goes to prove that you can be President... So long as you are a sociopath with no conscience

[WaitWut]

6. This is the biggest issue facing the United States.

In my opinion if we can't even audit our voting system, everything else is completely irrelevant. It won't matter what you do to campaign finance, it won't matter about voter ID's, all of those issues are just finger pointing between the red team and the blue team.

“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.” -Frank Zappa

Examples like these make it increasingly difficult to mitigate my cynicism.


*Edit: last line.

[hurple]

8. Every election moving forward should be

paper ballots and hand counted.

Every.

One.

[47of74]

17. And make electoral fraud a capital crime.

It's as bad as treason so it should be punished accordingly.

[JudyM]

83. Yes!

[OnionPatch]

54. Pennsylvania has a Democratic governor. Maybe start there?

I don't understand why every state where Democrats have any power at all are not reforming their election equipment to provide paper trails.

[BumRushDaShow]

91. Because the PA state legislature is all GOP. nt

[OnionPatch]

94. But the Secretary of State is a Democrat.

Does the SOS not have any power?

[BumRushDaShow]

95. Not really.

We seriously need to take back one of the chambers in order to start moving in the right direction. Right now by having Wolf in as governor, we're able to stave off typical GOP nightmarish scenarios (due to his vetoing their crap and the legislature being unable to override), but we are teetering on a brink here - and alot of it is also due to state legislative gerrymandering (which had gone to court a couple times after the 2010 election - let alone the federal gerrymandering).

[calimary]

24. Welcome to DU, WaitWut!

Great Zappa quote.

I, too, have an awful time trying to beat back my own cynicism. I've now seen it proven too many times that the GOP can only win if they CHEAT.

And NOTHING is ever done about the cheating.

[FiveGoodMen]

57. Yeah, the notion that vote-counting software is proprietary is just ... ...

Last edited Thu Apr 13, 2017, 04:16 PM - Edit history (1)

How could ANYONE have gone along with that?!?!?!

Those who proposed it and those who accepted it should be spending their lives in a Trump-colored jumpsuit.

[L. Coyote]

64. The guy who propsed it, is federal prisoner #.....

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2723773
https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2719564

President Bush's Remarks in Cambridge, Ohio
"I appreciate Congressman Bob Ney being with us today. Congressman, I'm proud you're here. ... I appreciate the chairman of the party, Bob Bennett."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Ney

On September 15, 2006, the Justice Department filed Ney's guilty pleas to a charge of conspiracy to defraud the United States and to a charge of falsifying financial disclosure forms. Both charges are related to actions taken on behalf of Abramoff's clients in exchange for bribes, as well as separate actions taken on behalf of a foreign businessman in exchange for over $50,000 in gambling sprees at foreign private casinos.[30] In four separate guilty pleas, Jack Abramoff, former DeLay deputy chief of staff Tony Rudy, former DeLay press secretary Michael Scanlon and former Ney chief of staff Neil Volz all said Ney had used his position to grant favors to the Abramoff lobbying team in exchange for gifts, including a free trip to the Super Bowl, Northern Marianas Islands, Scotland, the use of luxury boxes at sporting events, and concerts and meals. Ney is the first member of Congress to admit to criminal charges in the Abramoff investigation, which has focused on the actions of several current and former Republican lawmakers who had been close to the former lobbyist.[31] Ney announced he was entering inpatient treatment for rehabilitation and was entering a guilty plea to federal corruption charges related to the Abramoff scandal.

[Achilleaze]

9. republicans enabled russian ACTS OF WAR against America

[ProudLib72]

14. The fact that Democrats can cite Cheney for support

is a sad commentary on how completely screwed up our government has become.

[Achilleaze]

22. ...and how much further the republican party has degenerated

into its current state of SUBMISSIVENESS & collusion & coverup of russian attacks on America and Americans.

[Stargazer99]

15. I see I am not the only one that has felt this was a stolen election

The corruption and rot in this country is so bad, how do we fix this?
What kind of "teeth" do we the common man need to institute to
get the stench out of this country?

[Enoki33]

19. I too am of that mindset. Always felt the polling

could not have been that consistently wrong. The integrity of the voting process is the single most important thing Trump and his gang put up for sale to the Putin crime syndicate.

[calimary]

43. Welcome to DU, Enoki33!

It's hard to think otherwise.

The ONLY way these assholes know they can win - is if they CHEAT. Two GOP "wins" in a row. bush/cheney and now trump.

[L. Coyote]

86. The polling and exit polls in battleground states were very robust.

The number of respondents is impressive, and the number of pre-election polls to average is another factor reinforcing their reliability.

[NCTraveler]

16. Stein worked her ass off to put the image in place that the election wasn't stolen.

It's going to have to be huge in order to change the nations current mind-set.

[tosh]

39. I hear you.

Her recount "effort", IMO, was meant to placate us so we'd give up the fight for a full audit of those states.

[Fast Walker 52]

45. did anyone give a final report of what they found?

the whole thing just died in a weird way. And I agree, her goal may have been to work with the Trump people to show the election was legit.

[tosh]

52. I followed it

mostly through PalmerReport (who some here discredit). He had pretty good coverage and updates. As I remember it, most of those states were only allowing a look at the ballots which were hand-tabulated from the beginning, NO audits of machine tabulations.

Those stories are here: https://www.palmerreport.com/?s=recount

I didn't have the "get out my tin-foil hat feeling" at the time, but it has passed through my brain a few times in the last couple of months, LOL.

I might go back and re-read all of that this weekend when I have more time.

[L. Coyote]

65. I was concerned she was part of the misdirection, pointing to the wrong states.

Plus, I know that stolen elections recount the same and therefore end up validating the narrative that not one vote was changed. That's because the votes are changed before they are counted of they are changed where voting machines preclude recounting anything.

[Dink123]

18. Voting machines

Glad to see someone else sees it as I do, we were robbed, and will continue to be robbed, until we get a handle on voting machine fraud and hacks. I did mention this in my other post, but nobody seemed to get too excited.

[calimary]

41. Welcome to DU, Dink123!

Agreed.

Me, too, except - OOPSIE!!! OMG, EVERYONE LOOK OVER THERE!!!

Shiny-Object Alert: Breaking news - just now learned that "Mother Of All Bombs" dropped in Afghanistan. EVERYBODY drops Carter Page and runs to this new one.

[bucolic_frolic]

25. Strange things happen

in politics when money comes to town

[William769]

26. I have said all along this election was stolen by just enough manipulation

As to not raise alarm bells.

They did it to us again.

[L. Coyote]

67. Also, shaving points on a dozen fronts adds up to a huge slice of the pie.

Felon laws 6 million, voter IDs six million, ... do the math, and we still won by 3 million.

[Nwgirl503]

28. I'll never believe machines weren't hacked

Never

[Ligyron]

29. I was skeptical at first but,

The fact that they fought viciously any attempt at re-count or audit is telling. If the election was legit no one should have an issue with checking the results.

I think some shenanigans were going on for sure now but there are those on DU who will tell you cheating involving the machines is impossible.

There's no way he won that election, especially after the snatch snatcher video came out.

54% of women voted for Trump? NO WAY!!!

[lark]

32. OMFG!

I KNEW it!!!

I kept telling my husband, over and over and over that the election was stolen. I knew it deep in my gut. Question now is did Russia hack those machines or was it the Repug party committing treachery all by themselves? My guess is both Repugs and Russia worked together to this end and Drumpf needs to be in jail, along with Evil Elf, Eddie Munster, McTurtle, Nunes, Page, Manafort, etc. etc.

[annielion]

34. Absolutely stolen election!

I'm tired of the Republicans stealing elections. They stole 2000, 2004 and now 2016. Until we hand count paper ballots we will not be able to get our country back from the oligarchs.

[calimary]

42. Welcome to DU, annielion!

Yep. Seems as though the only way they know they can win anymore is to CHEAT.

[Fast Walker 52]

46. welcome to DU!!!

[elleng]

36. No sh*t, sherlock!

[byronius]

37. The recent arrest of 'Peter the Great', and his wife's comments about his writing of a virus --

-- that flipped the election to Trump -- confirm what I felt on election night.

The gaslighting that's taken place on this issue is palpable and only convinces me further.

Cheating, lying, theft, murder -- it's what Republicans do, and it's all they've got.

Quintessentially anti-American.

[niyad]

38. this simply confirms what we have suspected since that terrible night.

[INdemo]

40. Why does all the facts come out ....always after the fact

in 2000 we know Gore won..In 2004 we know Kerry won and we know for a fact now that Hillary won..
both the Popular vote and the no doubt the electoral vote

[Fast Walker 52]

47. because we are ruled by conservative assholes, who suppress everything that hurts them as much as

possible

[Rene]

51. Get the logs for the States processing computers

I work with 'distributed scheduling batch on servers'.....it's sooo easy to switch URL addresses from one server in a state to say 'Chattanooga Tenn RNC data center'
Happened in 1999 with Ohio's Secy of State's computers.
You can be watching the screen and you'd not know it's no longer on SERVERA...but doing actual processing and pre-programmed vote flipping on SERVERB that's 1000 miles away....flip the votes...and switch URL back to original site.

They're flipping votes on the computer where they switch url's to do the tally for a short time..

[L. Coyote]

69. The Tennessee story is misdirection and a ruse to detract from the vote-switching punch cards.

The counties counted their votes and reported them to the state, then the submitted final counts later and NO discrepancies were found. The conspiracy theory is total bullshit and was dragged out late in the game after the vote-switching was proven, The SmarTECH theory was pushed by Greens (who were financially supported by Repubilcans) as part of a failing and flawed lawsuit that was itself a distraction from the real theft in Ohio, and the lead attorney was chief counsel of the Republican party of Ohio for a while.

[Amaryllis]

53. That is not news for those of us who were paying atttention. There was plenty enough

information and evidence to put that together for anyone who could connect the dots.

[SunSeeker]

55. K & R for exposure.

[AllaN01Bear]

56. al gore and hillary clinton, the once and true president of the united states of amarica.

[Binders Keepers]

62. Holland was going to switch paper ballots

in its election to thwart Russian hacking. Paper is the fairest and most secure way. But that would assume a ruling party that was interested in the fairness and inviolability of the process. The only way this is going to change is if Dem's can wrest away control of state and county election boards from Repug's. But that's going to be hard to do w/ gerrymandering.

[jmg257]

63. Can't wait to se what these "concerns about malfunctions" & "issues" consist of.

[mvd]

68. I've felt something was up from the beginning

the chances of getting almost 3 million more votes and losing the electoral college are extremely low. I mean, we know Gore won the EC after winning by just 500K votes in the popular vote. That doesn't mean that Hillary's campaign was perfect - should not have been even that close - but I strongly feel the election was stolen. Stolen with both Comey before the election and the voting machines.

[L. Coyote]

70. The Electoral College winning margin is only 40,000 voters in three states. Talk about long odds.

The winning difference is under 80,000 votes the switch the Electoral College, but switched votes count twice. You have to add one to the column the vote is switched to and subtract one from the column it is stolen from, so the Electoral College win is Trump edging over the line by a mere 40,000 voters on three states.

Without the Comey effect, this might have been impossible to "arrange" without blatant acts easily detected. Pennsylvania is undetectable with so much DRE voting, NC and FL have DREs too.

Direct Recording Electronic (DRE) Systems: DRE systems employ computers that record votes directly into the computers' memory. These interfaces may incorporate touchscreens, dials, or mechanical buttons. The voter's choices are stored by the computer on a cartridge or hard drive. ....

Voting methods and equipment by state

[mvd]

76. Good point there

[llmart]

71. I agree with everyone on this thread...

who just knew in their guts that the election was stolen/hacked. I felt it that night and I have never changed my mind since then. The election was stolen from the rightful winner, Hillary Clinton. Trump was in on it. There is no doubt in my mind. I also think DU was affected by the same mob. It was just all too coincidental.

I will never, NEVER believe that Michigan voted for the orange a**hole. They had to make that one look very close because too many people would get suspicious if he had won by a huge margin. Are there uneducated idiots in Michigan that voted for dump? Of course! But there are way more people who would never vote for him.

[Silver Gaia]

74. I agree with all you said.

[Cha]

73. Mahalo, Coyote

[3catwoman3]

77. The outcome didn't make sense the night...

...of Nov 8th, and it still does not. And never will.

[lunamagica]

78. K&R. So true. It still breaks my heart like it did on election day

I can't get over it.

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: It might have been!”

[BSdetect]

79. No remedy available under the existing Constitution

And GOP intransigence

The voting mishmash of States and electorate boundaries manipulation, suppression and registration etc serves the GOP only too well.

We've gone beyond having to depend on the guilty to corect injustice.

There was Russian Cyber War and we lost thanks to collusion inside the system.

They must think they can get away with this as they can run the investigations one way or another.

[L. Coyote]

82. The TRUTH is the remedy, and it is coming out. The People will not stand for traitors.

Last edited Thu Apr 13, 2017, 09:25 PM - Edit history (1)

British spies were first to spot Trump team's links with Russia

Exclusive: GCHQ is said to have alerted US agencies after becoming aware of contacts in 2015

.............. “They now have specific concrete and corroborative evidence of collusion,” the source said. “This is between people in the Trump campaign and agents of [Russian] influence relating to the use of hacked material.”

[L. Coyote]

88. Weeks after election, Trump eliminated agency protecting voting machines.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[L. Coyote]

92. Hank Johnson wants Congress to protect the nations voting systems

Link to tweet

[Mc Mike]

89. I see FL and NC are mentioned, too. I bet OH should be mentioned as well.