General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThere more I read about Kremlingate, the more convinced I am that Trump is innocent. No, seriously.
Paul Manafort, Carter Page, Mike Flynn, Jeff Sessions, Roger Stone, Rex Tillerson... They all have confirmed ties to Russia or their ties can at least be reasonably assumed from the evidence.
Trump does have business-ties to Russia. Eric Trump said so.
BUT...
Donald Trump does not have the stamina or the intelligence or the discipline for basic presidentin', which he's doing while being supported by literally hundreds of staffers.
What makes you think that Donald Trump has what it takes to pull a geopolitical con of James-Bond-villain level? How many people could he reasonably involve in that scheme while at the same time keeping it secret?
Donald Trump is too lazy, too stupid and too emotional to pull off something like this.
He's just a figure-head, a useful idiot, a tool, an unwitting minion of the actual schemers.
That's why he's so outraged about the Russia-investigations: He honestly believes that he won this election fair and square.
He's the best! Why would he even need help from Russia to win the election?
He's the boss! The mere thought that he's a pawn in someone else's scheme, that's completely ludicrous!
TXCritter
(344 posts)...and therefore, unfit to be president and should be removed from office ASAP.
Rollo
(2,559 posts)...
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)he won fair and square... but because he is a narcissist and a man-child who has a personality disorder that makes him reinvent facts to build up his own ego.
You forget his whole asking Russia to get Hillary's emails.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)control the fall out.
WRONG.. as he puts it.
Nwgirl503
(406 posts)As with all of his shady af dealings over his lifetime and "career", he purposefully surrounds himself with people who know where the loopholes are. Who know how to avoid, bully, back-door, bribe, coerce. He does surround himself with "the best" people. The best crooks and liars. And he okays it by taking advantage of all the illicit things that come from his associations.
It'd be a different story if there was even one story about when he chose to not be totally corrupt. Maybe I'm not watching or reading the right things to find these stories if they exist, but every.single.thing. I've seen about this man for decades tells me he's never seen an opportunity to do things the wrong way and fuck someone over that he didn't like.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)You don't have a top guy in your scenario, you give the top guy a pass.
I co-opted the following from a comment section on an article ... Here's to 45 "telling it like it is" or conning the electorate.
NOT Paul Manafort, Carter Page, Mike Flynn, Jeff Sessions, Roger Stone, Rex Tillerson, et.al., but Donald John Trump!
1. He said he wouldnt bomb Syria. You bought it. Then he bombed Syria.
2. He said hed build a wall along the border with Mexico. You bought it. Now his secretary of homeland security says, Its unlikely that we will build a wall.
3. He said hed clean up the Washington swamp. You bought it. Then he brought into his administration more billionaires, CEOs and Wall Street moguls than in any administration in history, to make laws that will enrich their businesses.
4. He said hed repeal Obamacare and replace it with something wonderful. You bought it. Then he didnt.
5. He said hed use his business experience to whip the White House into shape. You bought it. Then he created the most chaotic, dysfunctional, backstabbing White House in modern history, in which no one appears to be in charge. They can't even get the Easter Egg Roll, a 130+ year US tradition, organized per reports.
6. He said hed release his tax returns, eventually. You bought it. He hasnt, and says he never will.
7. He said hed divest himself from his financial empire, to avoid any conflicts of interest. You bought it. He remains heavily involved in his businesses, makes money off of foreign dignitaries staying at his Washington hotel, gets China to give the Trump brand trademark and copyright rights, manipulates the stock market on a daily basis and has more conflicts of interest than can even be counted. Oh, and he amended his documents to make it legal for him to pull money from his businesses whenever he so desires. If Obama had done this, the GOP would have had utter meltdowns.
8. He said Hillary Clinton was in the pockets of Goldman Sachs and would do whatever they said. You bought it. Then he put half a dozen Goldman Sachs executives in positions of power in his administration.
9. He said hed surround himself with all the best and smartest people. You bought it. Then he put Betsy DeVos, an opponent of public education, in charge of education; Jeff Sessions, an opponent of the Voting Rights Act, in charge of voting rights; Ben Carson, an opponent of the Fair Housing Act, in charge of fair housing; Scott Pruitt, a climate change denier, in charge of the Environmental Protection Agency; and Russian quisling Rex Tillerson as secretary of state.
10. He said hed faithfully execute the law. You bought it. Then he said his predecessor, Barack Obama, spied on him, without any evidence of Obama ever doing so, in order to divert attention from the FBIs investigation into collusion between his campaign and Russian operatives to win the election. To date, no evidence exists to support his claim even when he promised to deliver some over a month ago.
11. He said he knew more about strategy and terrorism than the generals did. You bought it. Then he green-lighted a disastrous raid in Yemen, even though his generals said it would be a terrible idea. This raid resulted in the deaths of a Navy SEAL, an 8-year-old American girl and numerous civilians. The actual target of the raid escaped.
12. He called Obama the vacationer-in-chief and accused him of playing more rounds of golf than Tiger Woods. He promised to never be the kind of president who took cushy vacations on the taxpayers dime, not when there was so much important work to be done. You bought it. He has by now spent more taxpayer money on vacations/trips to FL than Obama did in the first three years of his presidency. Not to mention all the money taxpayers are spending protecting his family, including his two sons who travel all over the world on Trump business and Melania living in NYC.
chia
(2,244 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)chia
(2,244 posts)just want to make sure he got credited. I love that guy, in fact it's about time for me to watch Inequality for All again.
Kaleva
(36,294 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,647 posts)Just sayin'. I might believe 'not guilty' if it was actually demonstrated by evidence.
Trump will never be innocent.
Botany
(70,490 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)Being an accessory to a crime instead of a direct perpetrator never absolves anyone of guilt.
In this case, the situation is so complex and interwoven that it's impossible to draw a clear distinction between perpetrators and accessories. They all perpetrated some aspect of it, and were accessories in others.
Guilty as charged.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)The Republican party threw a bunch of candidates at the dartboard and didn't care which one stuck. But when they saw they were getting Donnie, that had time to think "oh shit we're really getting an idiot!! We can get him to sign ANYTHING"
Plus, the Republican parties adoration of Russia style government only made them see more benefits with all of the isle existing connections.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I think it's simpler than that. He thought that he could get away with lying to us about this, too.
RDANGELO
(3,433 posts)Where he needed a load, and the only ones who would give to him were the Russians, on the condition that they use him for money laundering. Once that is done, they convince him to run for president and lift the sanctions once elected or they spill the beans on him.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)I may be willing to accept that he might not have known exactly how involved it was, or what laws would be broken. I can believe he could be ignorant enough to not understand all the implications of letting the Russians help him reveal "dirt" about Hillary - or whatever he believed it was that they were going to help him with.
But I bet he "approved it" the same way he "approved" the first executive orders that he signed without really understanding - that were worked up for him by Bannon. Or the way he "approved" that raid in Yemen that he "considered" over dinner. That's the most charitable read on things that I can grant him - he also could have known full well exactly what was going down.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,173 posts)Even if you're Donald Trump.
Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #16)
ymetca This message was self-deleted by its author.
Caliman73
(11,730 posts)The reason why all of this stuff is coming to light is because Trump and the people around him have been stupid and arrogant. This whole thing is a reflection of how Trump has lived, except I think he miscalculated that he was going to be under this much scrutiny.
He certainly isn't the mastermind. As you said, he is just too lazy and undisciplined for that. This is Putin's game and Trump and his crew are in it for monetary and ideological reasons. Trump is an actor and celebrity. His persona is his trademark but he is kind of a one trick pony. I think that he is being manipulated in many ways by people who are a lot smarter than he is, but he is not innocent at all. He smells money and fame and he is complicit in this situation to the fullest extent.
ananda
(28,858 posts)It doesn't take energy or smarts to bring things down, especially
with cohorts like those from Russia and his campaign team!
I should add .. it does take energy and smarts to build things up
and create a good and just society.
nycbos
(6,034 posts)davsand
(13,421 posts)NO argument from me about that. tRump is dumb as f***. He's also the one that is "in charge" of the entire stinking mess. It is ALL on him as a result.
On a purely practical level, I do think that the proof of his active collusion hasn't surfaced yet, but I think it's there. I think he's in this up to his nasty orange hairline.
Laura
HAB911
(8,880 posts)Trump is almost certainly too stupid for it to be some plan, that might be giving him way too much credit
Kaleva
(36,294 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)...but as you note he does not have the brains to understand what he is saying yes to.
His crooked ways brought him here, and the American people's awe of money--even fake wealth like Trump's--kept his secrets just long enough for him to fail upward.
Sculpin Beauregard
(1,046 posts)of collusion, AND he's a useful idiot.
He was instructed on talking points to use at his rallies from his Russian handlers (Russian intelligence).
He has laundered, and borrowed, Russian money.
He had a server in his tower trading data with Russian banks.
And so, so much more.
I think the Steele dossier, which is only a bit of the whole story, will turn out to be true, and there will be much more.
underpants
(182,769 posts)and he knew that had the goods on him.
radical noodle
(8,000 posts)he can and will do anything. Anything.
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)but Trump went along with it. That much is obvious by his reactions.
stonecutter357
(12,695 posts)J_William_Ryan
(1,753 posts)A Republican House would never impeach, regardless the evidence of Trump's criminal acts.
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)He's aware.
TeddyBear 1
(79 posts)things always move slow in the government.. BUT!! something as serious as Russia/Trump and all else going on.. why is no-one in jail yet???? To be honest.. I lost all faith that Trump will be impeached.. it should of been done by now.. should of been top priority to get to the bottom of things ASAP.. which did not happen..
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Not to mention this involves the Russia Ambassador to the US who is obviously a spy with diplomatic immunity. Not to mention the established back channels. Of course Trump looks out for his own self so he has no problem getting tough with Russia to distance himself from the scandal. Plus there will be someone to fall on the sword or quietly resign like we saw with Flynn.
brush
(53,764 posts)Initech
(100,063 posts)TNLib
(1,819 posts)Allot of what was in it has turned to be true so I'm willing to bet he's completely compromised.