United staff 'forced frail grandma, 94, out of 2,800 Business seat into Economy for 16-hour flight

[n2doc]

United Airlines staff forced a frail 94-year-old grandma to leave her £2,800 Business Class seat and sit in discomfort in Economy, her family have claimed.

Paz Orquiza was travelling from Los Angeles back to Melbourne, Australia, after visiting relatives.

Her granddaughter Marianne Santos Aguilar said Mrs Orquiza has a number of disabilities including severe arthritis .

Her relatives had all chipped in to buy her a Business class seat with United in the hope of making the 16-hour journey more comfortable.

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[forgotmylogin]

1. This could have killed her.

Even healthy people suffer DVT blood clots on long flights.

[exboyfil]

2. They bought one Business class ticket

and her caregiver bought a regular ticket. The caregiver apparently needed to be with the grandma for periods of time (effectively being out of her seat and in the aisle way - moving back and forth to meet the needs of her grandmother).

This presents an obvious issue of safety for the passengers and logistics for the cabin crew.

On edit
Didn't think about the length of the flight. If she is with her grandmother for only short periods of time, then UALs position is ridiculous.

[n2doc]

3. Thats because people never leave their seats on a 16 hour flight

[Baitball Blogger]

4. Isn't it reccommended to get up and walk in the aisles on a long plane journey?

So, United, once again, screws up.

[n2doc]

5. Yep.

And I have never seen a flight of significant duration where folks aren't constantly shuttling back and forth, waiting in line for the restroom, etc.

More victim bashing on DU.

[ProfessorGAC]

6. You're Kidding, Right?

On a wide body during a 16 hour flight, there aren't people in the aisles constantly?

As someone who has been on DOZENS of such extended duration flights, a caregiver getting up 6 or 8 times (ok, so even 15) is not going to change the safety aspect of the flight or the crew.

Your position is kind of silly.

[exboyfil]

7. Agreed

Sorry.

[ProfessorGAC]

13. Cool!

I can tell you, when i flew back and forth to the Philippines a few times, i was still in my early to mid 40's, and if i didn't get up evry 40 minutes or so, (well except when i actually did doze off), i not only would have lost my marbles, but probably would have needed a wheelbarrow to get off the plane!

Now, imagine my fairly trim 40 something self (60 now) and compare that to 94 year old grandma. The very thought of a 16 hour flight at that age makes my ankles hurt.

[exboyfil]

15. Hawaii almost killed me

Oahu to Dallas. I probably preferred the outbound (Dallas to LA to Oahu) even if it took longer. I was in my late 40s at the time.

[athena]

8. Edited.

I won't attack someone who is mature and open-minded enough to reconsider his position.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

10. Bull shit.

I've been on flights where people walk up and down the isle all flight.

My last flight, some clown either stood at the end of my isle or sat on the armrest while chatting with people behind him.

I've seen parents tending to their kids seated in other rows.

Make no mistake, this was about not wanting peasants in economy up in business/first class.

Two issues are in play here: flight attendants either unable or unwilling to make compassionate exceptions to "rules." And a marked decline in civility by cabin staff that was heightened by this post 9/11 "if you don't obey me I'm landing the plane and calling the Feds" attitude.

I grew up on and around airplanes. My dad worked for American for 35 years. We flew everywhere. No long cross country trips in a car for our family. Things got bad after deregulation but were turned up to "11" after flight attendants were trained and allowed to treat every passenger dispute as an Al Queda member with a box cutter.

[SFnomad]

12. Since 9/11, airlines do not allow passengers to go from one seating class to another

during the flight. I don't know if that is just an airline policy or a Federal one.

[athena]

18. I doubt very much that that's for safety.

It's so that those in Business or First Class feel more special. The "Upper Classes" don't want those dirty people in Economy using their restrooms or brushing against their seats.

[MineralMan]

9. Well, that sucks! However, they did it

because her attendant need to attend her, and that was deemed disruptive to the other Business Class customers, I'm sure. Whether it was disruptive or not, they decided to move the elderly woman back into the Economy seats. Not an ideal solution, by any means.

For a 94-year-old, a 16 hour flight is an ordeal, at best, and is actually a potentially life-threatening thing. My parents are both 92 years old now. They stopped flying a few years ago, simply because it was no longer a pleasant experience. Between the airport hassle, the cramped seating, and just the difficulty of getting around, they simply stopped flying.

I've been on a couple of 12 hour plus flights, and they're no fun even for healthy people. Not one bit. Sitting in business class or first class would help, but it's still a long time to sit on a plane.

United might have come up with a better solution in that woman's situation. Had there been a vacant seat in Business Class, they could have moved the attendant up there. There probably was no such vacant seat, though. The family might have purchased another Business Class seat for the attendant, too, but that apparently wasn't financially doable.

I don't know. I do know that I would not recommend that long a flight for anyone of that age. It just doesn't seem to be a great idea, regardless of seat choices.

[athena]

11. If you read the article,

the flight attendants also refused to help the woman themselves so that her daughter could remain in her seat.

She claimed staff would not allow Mrs Orquiza's daughter Rose, who was also on the flight in Economy class, to help her with tasks such as reclining her seat or opening her food unless she paid for a Business Class ticket as well.

Neither would staff themselves help the fragile passenger, the family claim.

They claim they were left with no choice but to move Mrs Orquiza out of Business and into Economy so her daughter could assist her, despite having paid for extra comfort.

In the United States of Sociopathy, it is unheard of that anyone would inconvenience themselves to help an elderly person. Old people should just die, or at least know not to travel.

[MineralMan]

14. I'm not excusing United Airlines.

Not in any way. I was just outlining some of the issues of this particular situation.

Frankly, the flight crew should have handled all of that assistance cheerfully and attentively. I can't imagine it would have consumed all that much time. But they did not. Bad cess to them, I say.

However, I suspect the real issues were that some other passengers were made uncomfortable by having an aged woman sitting in their section and complained. First Class and Business Class passengers often feel entitled in many ways and do not like odd people or ancient people sitting near them. It makes them, you know, uncomfortable.

[athena]

19. These people don't realize that they, too, will be old and in need of assistance one day.

I would not, however, blame anonymous passengers in the absence of evidence. United most likely just assumed that its regular upper-class passengers would be bothered by a dirty Economy-Class passenger encroaching on their territory and breathing their air.

It is true that the person seated next to the elderly woman might have offered to exchange seats with the daughter, but Economy Class is so miserable these days that it's hard to blame someone on a long flight for not being selfless enough to make such a sacrifice.

[MineralMan]

20. Well, I'm not one of those people. I'm 71 years old, myself.

So far, I have no trouble flying, and still qualify to sit in exit rows, which I always book if possible. I'm more than able and willing to do what is required in an emergency, so I pay the small extra fee to have a little more leg room.

Would I give up my seat in Business Class in such a situation? Probably I would, if it meant that an aged person did not have to move to a less comfortable seat. But, then, I never fly in Business Class, so that situation will never arise.

If I were a flight attendant, though, I would have dealt with the situation in some other way, probably by offering my assistance whenever and however that 94-year-old woman needed it. That would have avoided the problem altogether.

When I am 94, should I be lucky enough to live that long, I will no longer be taking trips on airplanes. I don't like doing so even at my current age. If someone wishes to visit with me, they would always be welcome to come to wherever I am.

Old age is difficult enough. Flying is difficult enough. The two don't mix well, generally.

[athena]

21. I wasn't talking about you.

I knew your approximate age from your other posts.

I would like to say I would give up my seat, but that's easy to say in abstraction. One time recently, on United, I was stuck in a middle seat, between my husband and a guy who was too big to fit into his seat. The big guy was half in my seat, so that I had to sit in the other half of my seat and ended up with back pain afterwards, even though it was only a three-hour flight. If I had paid for a Business Class seat on a 16-hour flight (which would never be the case, since I never pay for a Business Class seat), and if I was tired and in a foul mood, the possibility of ending up in that sort of situation could make it very difficult to offer to voluntarily move to Economy.

The airlines should be required by law to make their seats large enough for most people to fit into them. (The person I referred to above was not enormous; he was just big.) But instead, every time this issue comes up, people attack fat people rather than criticizing the airlines for making the seats too small.

[ProfessorGAC]

16. That Part I'm Finding A Little Less Compelling

As mentioned above, i've down a substantial amount of extended flight int'l travel. The attendant in first and biz class have always been super responsive, friendly, accommodating and professional. (Not that attendants in coach are some schlubs. But, those assigned to 1st or Biz seem to know that the customer is paying quite a bit extra, so they're even more so attentive.)

I'm struggling to envision how a flight attendant, based upon extensive experience, and knowing one long time attendant (wife's friend who was Qantas, then American), would not be extra special nice to a 94 year old grandma.

I can see the family's pique. But, this might be laying on an extra layer of jam.

[athena]

17. I find it totally plausible.

Flight attendants are strictly limited in what they are allowed to do. One time, when I was in Business Class on United, the flight attendant would not serve me water in my reusable cup and insisted on giving me a plastic cup because not using a new disposable cup was considered a health risk. Flight attendants in Business Class are trained to make you feel extra-special (much more special than those poor souls in Economy), but that doesn't mean they're at all flexible in what they will or will not do. I bet the flight attendants were afraid that if they helped the woman too much, they might pass germs to the other customers in Business Class.

[ProfessorGAC]

22. Fair Enough

We'll agree to disagree on this one.

[Txbluedog]

23. I know for a fact that "non-airline" Emirates

Would have upgraded the daughter so that she would have been able to sit close to her mother

[GulfCoast66]

24. I have refused to fly United since a transatlantic flight in 2012

They announced early in the flight that unless going to the facilities we had to remain buckled in. For 9 hours.

Hell, Air France puts out refreshments near the toilets and even Delta does not discourage standing for periods of time.

Sitting cramped for 9 hours will occasionally result in someone stroking out.

And always wear compression socks on long flights.