General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAl Gore could unite business & progressive Democrats in 2020.
I just watched the trailer for the sequel to AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH.
Al Gore was part of the DLC team, but has progressive credibility because of his work on climate change.
Bernie or someone like him could win, but the business wing of the party would fight tooth and nail to keep them from reaching the nomination.
Hillary would have the unqualified support of the business wing, but her ties to Wall Street and the neocons and their cruel, destructive foreign policy would mean progressives might vote for her, but not have an infectious enthusiasm that gets people to the polls who otherwise wouldn't go.
Al Gore is the only candidate with credibility in both wings of the party.
Of course whether someone like him or further left gets the nomination depends of the Democratic Party leadership realizing they ain't going to win over the Republican base, or to the extent that they do, it won't be by aping Republican policies.
randome
(34,845 posts)No more retreads!
It's unfair that Gore lost! It's unfair that Clinton lost! MOVE ON!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]
Freddie
(9,257 posts)A fresh face, someone younger. Or Al Franken, who isn't "young" but wonderful anyway.
randome
(34,845 posts)Franken is one of them. So would be Warren. Both DEMOCRATS, I might add!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]
lapucelle
(18,187 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Technicalities...grumble...this place sucks...isn't fair...grumble...mutter...bah!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]
yurbud
(39,405 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Skittles
(153,113 posts)MOVE THE FUCK ON
yurbud
(39,405 posts)corporate Democrats seem to always fall back on "unify behind us or we don't need you," which is clearly not a winning strategy.
delisen
(6,042 posts)We don't need for Republicans and others to work hard to disparage our candidates- they succeed in getting some of us to do it for them.
We will be moving on to our next loss-if we don't face up to why we lose when we actually won.
In 2000 the Republicans bankrolled Ralph Nader who told us there was no difference between the Republican and Democratic candidates.
In that election cycle Putin and Russians had observed how easily we are fooled. In fact Putin did remark on our election irregularities the put G W Bush office.
In 2016, Putin and the Russians used their knowledge and intelligence to place their preferred candidate in as our president.
I don't care about the fresh-faced or or the vizened visage. If their is no in-depth knowledge and experience of the foreign affairs and economic issues, they are not ready for prime time-they are no match for the Putin's of the world.
We lost over 900 seats to Republicans over the last 8 years because we did not pay attention, The opposition doesn't sleep and dream. The build and wait; they block legislation; they block judicial appointments. Where their are small spaces between us, they create chasms.
It's not our candidates who are losers. I find the focus on 2020 to be bizarre and the search for the new thrill to be the latest attempt to lose.
randome
(34,845 posts)So was Dolt45's but that doesn't count when you've stacked the deck against your opponent. My point is that it's long past time to hand the reigns of control to new faces with new ideas.
Like it or not, visual impressions count! It isn't fair!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]
delisen
(6,042 posts)and didn't vote for him in the primaries.
I found Clinton visual refreshing. finally some one visually new in Presidential politics!
lapucelle
(18,187 posts)And if visual impressions really counted that much, Trump wouldn't be the president.
delisen
(6,042 posts)Merckel, long in office, has never catered to "glamour-charisma" voter. If she loses this round does it signal German voters becoming less intelligent? or just the new anti-immigrant uprising, or the Russian election-interference in western democracies?
I agree that the many American progressives might vote on appearances rather than facts or knowledge-but sometimes we have to educate the voters rather than accept shallowness as inevitable.
pnwmom
(108,959 posts)And she looked younger than either.
Poster was probably a toddler when all that went down and doesn't fully understand the magnitude of what was done to Gore. Ive run into that a lot with millenials. It's just a chapter in a history book to them, if that.
randome
(34,845 posts)Too many didn't care about the frivolousness of Clinton's emails compared to Dolt45's ignorance and misogyny. Those who voted for Dolt45 or who sat out the election knew which was the better candidate. They didn't care. That's why stupid and illogical things like appearance matter. This isn't a logical game.
I agree the Presidency is not something that should capture our resources for now. Far too many other avenues to address before 2020.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]
William769
(55,144 posts)Who will they give us next?
Just some food for thought.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]
TrollBuster9090
(5,953 posts)by running ALEX JONES?
JOE THE (NON)PLUMBER?
delisen
(6,042 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)but the point of my post was noting who could unite the two wings of the party.
oasis
(49,334 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)voters.
People inside the beltway seem to think that everyone believes the bullshit they spew and want to kiss the same asses they do.
The rest of us have received and will receive zero benefit from destabilizing the Middle East and even Ukraine, and escalating conflict with Russia and China.
oasis
(49,334 posts)will come back to bite her. Bigly.
delisen
(6,042 posts)One just installed a president in our White House.
delisen
(6,042 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)brush
(53,743 posts)Demsrule86
(68,471 posts)malchickiwick
(1,474 posts)I hope you know you're responsible for the vomit all over my keyboard. Thanks a lot!
delisen
(6,042 posts)for dictatorships? and you would be happy. Which "wing" of the Democratic Party is that?
yurbud
(39,405 posts)If we did, Saudi Arabia would have been the first place we invaded after 9/11/.
You are confusing excuses and propaganda with reality.
Just because the talking heads on TV nod politely and play along when politicians spew that nonsense on TV doesn't mean all the rest of us are fooled.
Our government overthrows democratic governments that don't obey our banks and corporations and installs brutal dictators.
Please read Stephen Kinzer's OVERTHROW, John Perkins' CONFESSIONS OF AN ECONOMIC HITMAN, or even Daniel Yergin's THE PRIZE, A Pulitzer Prize winning history of oil if you sincerely believe what you said, so you don't vote based just on what you hear on television.
Demsrule86
(68,471 posts)Democrats have done so...and unlike the GOP he was successful.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)a massive base along a pipeline route or the admission of a top diplomat that the war was more about enforcing neoliberal privatization than ending ethnic conflict?
"As nations throughout the region sought to reform their economies, mitigate ethnic tensions, and broaden civil society, Belgrade seemed to delight in continually moving in the opposite direction. It is small wonder NATO and Yugoslavia ended up on a collision course. It was Yugoslavia's resistance to the broader trends of political and economic reform--not the plight of the Kosovar Albanians--that best explains NATO's war."
http://www.alternet.org/story/98338/naomi_klein_strikes_back_at_critics_of_her_%27shock_doctrine%27_book
And some of those human rights abuses turned out to be as fictional as Iraq's WMD's.
We stirred the pot of ethnic conflict to break Yugoslavia into pieces to make it easier to coerce the pieces to do business on terms Wall Street banks and our oil companies dictate.
Dig deeper than what you hear on TV news. They are just parroting press releases.
Demsrule86
(68,471 posts)massacres....my old pediatrician was from the area and told me first hand accounts. Clinton did a good thing there.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)She has a pretty good track record of her work holding up after her neoliberal critics excuses and lies fall apart.
Demsrule86
(68,471 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)Demsrule86
(68,471 posts)was the murders of innocent people...much like how people wanted something done after Syria gassed babies...Naomi Klein always ascribes the worst motives to the Clinton's and Democrats in general.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)Republicans use a slightly different set of excuses since it doesn't take much to get the consent of their base given their bloodlust.
Demsrule86
(68,471 posts)a Democratic president and the party. I don't agree with you.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)In Hawaii they see behind the headlines and see a Democrat that frequently sides with Trump and the reactionaries
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/17946/Tulsi-Gabbard-lsquoThe-Congresswoman-Trump-Fans-Can-Loversquo.aspx
1. The Hawaii congresswoman was also one of just 47 Democrats who voted for a bill that would make it all but impossible to admit new refugees into the United States.
2. And oddly enough, considering her states reliance on the tourism industry, she mirrored Trumps overreach on immigration issues by calling for European passport holders to be forced to apply for tourist visas
3. She is also wishy-washy on gun control. Trump opposes a ban on assault weapons, aflip-flop from his prior positions; Gabbard, meanwhile, is conspicuously missing from Democrat efforts to legislate the issue. Eighty percent of Democrats, including fellow Hawaii Democrat Rep. Mark Takai, are co-sponsors of a bill that would ban so-called assault weaponsGabbard is not among them.
4. Both Trump and Gabbard share a common friend: billionaire casino magnate Sheldon Adelson. The Hawaii Democrat reportedly introduced an Adelson-backed bill that would outlaw online gambling. Earlier this year, Gabbard won a Champions of Freedom Award at The World Values Networks annual gala, co-hosted by Adelson. Meanwhile, the magnate has indicated his willingness to donate more than $100 million to Trumps campaign for president .
5. While she frequently criticized Clinton, she refused to criticize Trump. When given a chance to condemn Trump, such as with this story, Gabbard avoids the topicand in the past, she has avoided harsh words for the Republican businessman.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)honesty about foreign policy.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)pnwmom
(108,959 posts)soon after the election, and afterwards came out gushing.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)I certainly don't. I'll vote for whoever I think the best candidate is and gender will NEVER be a consideration.
athena
(4,187 posts)but supporting women is.
The truth is that there has been a gender requirement for the office of the presidency since its beginning. If that weren't the case, we would have had roughly 20-25 female presidents by now. But you're not at all bothered by that. What you're bothered by is a woman resenting that she will probably never live to see a woman president.
Enjoy voting for the next male politician while claiming that gender is NEVER a consideration.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)If a worthy candidate who happens to be a woman in 2020, I'll vote for her
athena
(4,187 posts)and that you will not be the least bit bothered by the gender of your choice being no different from that of the last 45 presidents.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)We need new, liberal faces, preferably under the age of 60, who haven't lost national elections.
caroldansen
(725 posts)two best presidents this country ever had was Bill Clinton and Obama. They made friends with practically every country and everyone loved America. Unlike the republicans. They could ask almost any country for anything and get it. I really want that again.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I think Lincoln, FDR and maybe even Washington might disagree. Teddy might disagree as well when he started reigning in corporations. And for lifetime achievement we have to give a nod to Eisenhower who was probably as liberal as Clinton.
I do agree that they are the 2 best in my 50 year lifespan although a strong argument can be made that LBJ had a more positive long term impact with the Civil Rights Act and the Great Society. Had he avoided Vietnam he would be one of he big 3.
Have a nice evening.
bluedigger
(17,086 posts)lapucelle
(18,187 posts)for environmental activism 10 years ago.
jehop61
(1,735 posts)He's had a chance. Someone new and fresh needed. Besides he's amassed a fortune, had a hooker scandal and a divorce since he last ran. The rebubs would have a field day
treestar
(82,383 posts)Types of issues don't matter
delisen
(6,042 posts)Divorce giving Republicans a field day?....in 2020? I don't think so.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)Here's the text of her report to the police:
http://www.portlandmercury.com/BlogtownPDX/archives/2010/06/23/report-from-the-police-investigation-of-al-gore-sex-case
kcr
(15,315 posts)lpbk2713
(42,740 posts)He gave in to the other side much too quickly in the Y2K Florida Selection IMO.
And that caused eight years of pain that we might never get over.
DK504
(3,847 posts)taking away the only progressive tv station on any where in the US.
delisen
(6,042 posts)so our candidate was at fault??? I think I am seeing a pattern here.
nini
(16,672 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)I really want to move on:
The older I get "remember whenism" becomes more attractive but is ultimately depressing.
delisen
(6,042 posts)At the time he had been considered a failure--but he knew the nature of the enemy in the 1930s when others did not and got fooled. He would have been the right person to be Prime Minister in the 1930s-he had the correct world view-others didn't understand that they were already at war.
Churchill got turned out after victory and that was also the right decision-he was of the British Empire, iit was unraveling, and he was the wrong person for a war-changed England.
There are so-called progressive in the Democratic Party-both young and old-who have been very slow to recognize the changing world; slow to recognize how foreign policy and economics intersect.
While they think of themselves as "progressive" I see them as having an old world view and as being regressive in analysis and response.
Any Democrat with a view of women as an interest group whose interest are something that can be described as "women's issues" is out of touch. Any who do not see the primacy of human rights are out of touch. Any who were unprepared for the automated near-future are out-of-touch. Big Money in politics? The focus was entirely on American billionaires-like looking in the wrong end of a telescope.
I don't care if a candidate is 35 years old or 85, good looking or ugly, charismatic or unelectrifying-looking at those characteristics as priority, pivotal, or prerequisites reminds me of Bush fixing the facts around the objective to achieve an act of vengeance and revenge in which the rest of us were to pay for his ignorance, inexperience, and personal vendetta.
Our world has changed over the last decade and many progressives, who think they are cutting edge, did not know it was happening, and then have been slow to acknowledge it.
They did not learn of it in progressive journals nor on msnbc, or in university classes-because those sources are also out of touch.
We have been full of -isms, and blinded to what has been in plain sight.
The one certainty I see is that our world is going to change enormously-it will become much better or much, much worse. We will have human rights or we won't.
I see the focus on a presidential phenotype" for a 2020 victory, without building a coherent vision, a strange endeavor.
lapucelle
(18,187 posts)JHan
(10,173 posts)delisen
(6,042 posts)R B Garr
(16,950 posts)and I didn't see that at first.
JHan
(10,173 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)unless she is already the nominee in an election, you can't summarily dismiss the possibility of other candidates.
nini
(16,672 posts)No I did not.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)nini
(16,672 posts)That is not what I said.
If you want to read more into what I said than what I did - knock yourself out.
bye
yurbud
(39,405 posts)folks who chose her because they agree with her policy positions.
sickening to see so many DUers use ANY EXCUSE to bash her
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)"Al Gore is the only candidate with credibility in both wings of the party."
And you have outlined Clinton/Sanders(or someone like him) as our only other options. Strange.
brooklynite
(94,363 posts)I'm willing to bet you can't remember one.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)R B Garr
(16,950 posts)a few. And he was for climate change decades ago when liberals were openly ridiculed about it. He endured all of that, but persisted. Not like a Senator now who promotes it now that it is a popular subject. I'm at least glad that Gore will be around to take rightful credit instead of letting someone take his spotlight.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)breath away to see Gore in action again. Bush got all his Daddy's retreads, which is now just a reminder how much "progressives" work against themselves by banishing brilliant Democrats like Gore and now Clinton based on some phony talking points. We would be living in Gore's world now. Instead we got Bush's war. Doesn't sound too progressive to me.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,610 posts)I like Al Gore, but he is more useful doing what he's been doing on environmental issues.
delisen
(6,042 posts)I suggest a Kardashian, proven popularity; actors are really charismatic. I don't want a character actor though.
Someone really good-looking and young would really, really, really bring out the voters, dontcha think?
....and don't let the candidate bring up too many facts in campaigning-it's a turn-off ,and makes republicans so angry they unleash their mad dog attackers.
So here are the qualifiers: pretty face if not heart throbbing good looks, handsome physique, little experience,
super charismatic, and someone who gets along with media and the Russians.
Is there anyone working for RT who might be a fit?
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,610 posts)who are not "celebrities" but who would bring new ideas and new energy, not the same old same old from 20+ years ago. I don't want an inexperienced, flashy celebrity type but I do want someone with a progressive vision. I see no point in continuing to nominate and run our previous losers (who will be in their '70s), even those who didn't deserve to lose.
lapucelle
(18,187 posts)post-Clinton era careers in public service. What "old Clinton era retreads" are you referring to?
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,610 posts)There are people who are starting to become successful in local progressive politics - people like Obama when he was a community organizer and then a state senator. Those are the people to watch, not the septuagenarians who may have been big cheeses twenty years ago.
lapucelle
(18,187 posts)or being a Secretary of State?
Some people who were "big cheeses" 20 years ago continue to be "big cheeses" today. (I'm not quite sure what your "big cheese" standards are, but I assume that someone who received 96,000,000 votes 5 months ago should count, unless, of course, almost being a septuagenarian disqualifies her. And while our most recent nominee was Gallup's "Most Admired Woman" 20 years ago, she still holds that title today, so people must still find her message relevant.)
While it is important to watch for, to mentor, and to promote new leadership, there is also something to be said about the guidance of those with institutional expertise.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,610 posts)The people of her state can decide whether they want her to represent them. Of course there is value in experience, but she can mentor others in a lot of ways besides running for president. I'm her age, and I would like to see someone younger, with new ideas, as a leader. That goes for Bernie, too, in case you are assuming I am biased against Hillary.
lapucelle
(18,187 posts)Last edited Sat Apr 15, 2017, 11:12 PM - Edit history (1)
She was a great senator, and both downstaters and upstaters supported her. I've spent many years as a volunteer. We have two wonderful Democratic senators from NY. Hillary would never try to unseat either of them.
She said in an interview last week that she would like to work on the great unfinished business of the 21st century: equality for women and girls around the world.
Like Susan B. Anthony who never got to cast a vote, Hillary will never sit in the Oval Office. She did, however, clear the path for the next qualified candidate who happens to be a woman.
And history will always wonder what could have been accomplished and who would have better off if Gore and Clinton, both winners of the popular vote, both slurred as the "lesser of two evils", had won the office.
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)They'd call him a goofball climate alarmist, and worse. They already treat him as the punchline of a joke. It would be far worse if he was running.
That's the last thing we need is another candidate who comes complete with a pre-made laundry list of things the right will hit him over the head with, and the stupid right wing voters already see him as the incarnation of Satan himself.
We can't win by repeating the same mistakes over and over, or running the same tired candidates over and over. It's time for the next generation to step up to the plate.
delisen
(6,042 posts)The Second Coming -a beard would be good. He could take up carpentry-and no one will care if he wears earth tones.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)JHan
(10,173 posts)Or how liberals will paint their candidates?
They are going to smear our candidates regardless - whether old or young, male or female, they will find something and swiftboat relentlessly.
It's time for us to stop giving a fk where this is concerned and fight them using their own game. On AM Joy, there was discussion about the ways republicans have sought to smear Ossof as a terrorist sympathizer - yes a terrorist sympathizer.
The republicans have lost all moral ground to pontificate about our politicians. They've nominated a shameless liar, a corrupt, intellectually lazy, compromised, inethical boor to run for president and we are still wondering how they will smear our best and brightest?
What we need to do is stop letting them define who we are.
lapucelle
(18,187 posts)"the lesser of two evils". That's how a third party candidate (with the help of the media) siphoned off enough votes to give the election to Bush.
Gore is no longer "evil"? Maybe both he and Hillary could run in the 2020 primary so we can have the opportunity to decide which of the two is the true "lesser of two evils between two lesser of two evils".
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/05/opinion/hillary-clinton-gets-gored.html?_r=0
delisen
(6,042 posts)lapucelle
(18,187 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)after the theft of the election via voter purges and the Supreme Court, Democrats should have made it harder for the "lesser of two evils" charge to stick, and once back in power, done everything they could--LOUDLY-- to stop voter disenfranchisement.
JHan
(10,173 posts)IphengeniaBlumgarten
(328 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)ZX86
(1,428 posts)We're getting the band back together!
yurbud
(39,405 posts)brush
(53,743 posts)Time to move forward while gesturing fondly back towards our "should've been, and actual winners" from the past.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)However, he lost, he lost spectacularly and no one comes back from that political graveyard.
Do you have any idea how many times we will hear "He lost his own state" during a campaign?
Demsrule86
(68,471 posts)Buckeye_Democrat
(14,852 posts)Gore doesn't have the personality to survive it.
His best chance was in 2000 after serving as VP and representing a continuation of Clinton.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,757 posts)Last edited Sat Apr 15, 2017, 03:21 PM - Edit history (1)
I respect Al Gore but it's up to him whether he wants to run or not in 2020.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,852 posts)2000 Exit Polls.
https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/how-groups-voted-2000/
6% of liberals voted for Nader, but the 81% to 13% margin among the other liberals was far better than the margin among moderates.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)Thrill
(19,178 posts)And he's going to surprise people by how good of a speaker he is. Going to be better than you think on the stump
davsand
(13,421 posts)If they've run before at that level they need to be retired. Biden is probably my pick of that particular litter, and even he's probably not a viable candidate, if I'm being honest.
It's time for new meat and fresh faces. No more Clinton era, or Obama era politicians, please. They did their time, let them rest while somebody else takes those body shots.
Laura
Voltaire2
(12,965 posts)jg10003
(975 posts)Technocrats. Dukakis, Gore, Hillary, Adlai Stevenson, Dewey. All very compatent but could not rouse the passions of voters.
Response to yurbud (Original post)
ismnotwasm This message was self-deleted by its author.
Gothmog
(144,939 posts)JI7
(89,241 posts)None of those fuckers are progressives. Same fucking ones who always want to lecture othErs.
kerry would have been great in 2004 and Hilary in 2016 . I'm so glad we had Obama.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)No thanks.
mvd
(65,162 posts)I feel he would have many of the same problems Hillary had. Would be a good leader but not the best candidate. I know Gore and Hillary really won, but I would sooner run Hillary again than Gore, and I really prefer some new.
nycbos
(6,034 posts)Lisa0825
(14,487 posts)Not ageism - I just think it is time for the new generation of our party to step up.
doc03
(35,299 posts)and Bernie Sanders but their ship has sailed. Don't we have anyone that isn't on Medicare to run?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)But that ship has sailed and just as importantly, i dont think he wants it.
We need to expand our bench... rather than one "marquee" candidate sucking up spotlight and airtime, I'd rather have 10 lesser and semi-knowns making a name for themselves and discussing the future of our party, nation, and planet.
TNLib
(1,819 posts)I don't understand why we can't have several great candidates run in the primary.
TrollBuster9090
(5,953 posts)but they'll both be in their 70s by 2020, and their running would make it look as though the Democratic Party hasn't had a new idea, or a new generation, or a new infusion of energy for 20 years.
Even the Republicans have new blood. Granted, it's pretty hard to find people who were born in the 50s and 60s who have the mean, stale, dour ideas of the 1930s Republican Party...but somehow they're managing to do it.
Surely we can do better.