PLEASE STOP with the unsubstantiated claims!

[dvduval]

Louise Mensch and now Claude Taylor. How quickly we forget the unsubstantiated claims that were made against Hillary Clinton AKA fake news!!! These claims were made to help support the Bernie Sanders campaign, but the fake news was not necessarily created by Bernie Sanders supporters. Crazy stories were spread to help divide the Democratic Party from within.

And what we later learned was there were Bots that we're helping to reinforce these claims. And just so I am not doing the exact same thing, I will at least say that we don't know the full extent of the campaign to sow division, but it has become quite obvious that bots were used, as well as other measures to spread fake news.

Please be careful with with these unsubstantiated claims! Of course we want to see Trump gone sooner rather than later, but let's focus our energies on things we can verify, which is a lot!!!

We need to keep the focus on the tax returns, Carter page, Paul manafort, the meetings that took place in Hungary and Russia, Trump's business dealings, Sessions' lies, Russian operatives and intelligence operations, and so much more.

Please be thoughtful that people are watching and would like nothing more than to lead the people against them in the wrong direction and even divide them in the process. Let's stand together in bringing together the facts as soon as possible.

[Oneironaut]

1. There are many sites to be skeptical of here.

- Twitter, especially from a random Twitter user
- Any blogger who isn't a respected journalist
- OccupyDemocrats
- HuffPo
- DailyKos

Every story from these "sources" should be subject to extra scrutiny, imo. OccupyDemocrats has especially been caught spreading fake news before.

[dvduval]

2. Yes

And even if the original poster is not someone trying to do anything wrong, what can happen is the people who want to spread disinformation will especially help to promote those stories that are unsubstantiated and false. This helps to dilute the truth which they want to protect.

[LAS14]

13. I'm surprised about seeing HuffPo and DailyKos in this list.

Can you give some examples of story that proved to be unfounded?

[KittyWampus]

28. Featured story on NorK capitol being evacuated.

[womanofthehills]

41. So you guys think we need some authoritorian supervision on here

You want to close down all speculation.

[sellitman]

3. Totally agree

I don't trust anyone on Twitter.

Period.

[bathroommonkey76]

27. Twitter was the first to report

about Bin Laden's death.

Michael Jackson's death.

Through the miracle of online police scanners users on Twitter listened to the shootout and chase of the Boston Marathon suspects.

Miracle on the Hudson survivors tweeted out pics of the aftermath of the crash 4 mins after it happened.

Let's not forget the natural disaster stories that have taken place on Twitter- Way before any MSM outlet. I'm talking hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes...

Arab Spring protests happened in real-time on Twitter.

There are hundreds of more examples of Twitter's social media influence in today's world. I honestly think Twitter should become a TV news station b/c it's so influential in how today's MSM reports the news.

I could go on and on and on, but in the end you still won't 'trust anyone on Twitter'.

[dvduval]

32. Trust is based on evidence

If something is unsubstantiated, then say so! If someone says "my sources in intelligence tell me", this can be very problematic.

There is a difference between asking for help verifying facts, after someone has learned something that cannot be proven, and stating something as if it is already a fact.

Big difference!

[bathroommonkey76]

34. Post 31. n/t

[womanofthehills]

47. Obviously, Intel wants the leaks

I am all for the intel leaks.

[LovingA2andMI]

39. Actually....

TMZ was the first to report about Michael Jackson's Death. As for Twitter, any adult should be able to filter out what is useful there and what is not.

As collective, we cannot take on the responsibly for the lack of basic reading comprehension for some in this society. That is what Primary (Elementary) School was suppose to teach,

[bathroommonkey76]

44. Right, TMZ

first tweeted out the MJ news on Twitter, I remember. There were also fans who took pics of an ambulance leaving Neverland -- that made way for TMZ to jump on the story. Those fans first posted their pics on Twitter.

Reading comprehension is just the start in the dumbing down of our society- I believe the reluctance comes from a generational divide from users on DU and all over the Internet. There were those against the TV, airplanes, radios, and fast food restaurants when they first came out. The entire "get off my lawn" philosophy has turned into an art with older people today-- To this day my grandma only trusts CBS News b/c of Walter Cronkite. Yes, it's sad, I know.

I love whenever a person says they don't trust anyone on a particular site. Later on that day they'll end up turning on MSNBC or CNN and put their faith and trust into horrible journalists, or news personalities who would be nothing without a teleprompter.

[Sculpin Beauregard]

42. Excellent points. I wholeheartedly agree

[sellitman]

46. Too many people trying to push their brand

More interested in facts. I see very little on Twitter. Separating the wheat from the chaff isn't easy with Russian trolls and others who just like to disrupt.

More BS on Twitter than anywhere else.

[bathroommonkey76]

48. That's not true at all

Last edited Tue Apr 18, 2017, 04:05 PM - Edit history (1)

The Russian bots in fact have gone into hibernation on Twitter.

Are you on FB? Did you know FB has supplied more fake news than any site on the Internet? You know the stories I'm talking about that your right-wing relatives share with their friends. FB has 3 billion users compared to Twitters 350 million users- In this pond Twitter's is the small fish.

Let's not forget every mainstream journalist, newspaper reporter, and well-respected writer's use Twitter on a daily basis. Sure, there are BS accounts on Twitter- There are also BS accounts on FB, DU, Daily Kos, and in every comment section on news sites across the globe. Does that make them any less credible? Not at all.

[sellitman]

50. I don't have a FB account

That's a real cesspool.

[Stinky The Clown]

4. I already did the R. Now I am doing this K.

[dvduval]

7. Trump doesn't thank you

Indeed it can be substantiated that Donald Trump did not thank you for your service. So thank you. Haha

[3_Limes]

17. So what do those letters stand for?

Thanks.

[panader0]

21. K is for kick--to boost the thread. R is for recommended. K and R

[lunatica]

35. to elaborate a bit...

When you kick a thread you do it by responding with your own post. That makes it go to the head of the line again. Lot's of people just want to kick the thread back up so they just type K or kick. Or you can just enter a period. As long as you enter something in reply.

When you recommend the thread it can go to the home page as one of the Greatest, depending on how many recs it has.

[AntiFascist]

5. This tweet by Claude Taylor...

about Trump weighing his options, including resignation, seems to be somewhat substantiated by West Wing Reports.

http://occupydemocrats.com/2017/03/31/republican-insiders-just-revealed-trump-weighing-resignation/

The "focus" should also include the foreign IC.

[dvduval]

6. this

This is exactly the sort of thing that I'm talking about. This is a story full of unsubstantiated information. This is exactly the type of story that someone who is working against us would once you promote so that the truth will be diluted.

[AntiFascist]

10. The second source of that story is not "working against us"...

Paul Brandus, the author of the acclaimed Under This Roof: A History of the White House and Presidency (published in September 2015 by Lyons Press), is an award-winning, independent member of the White House press corps. He founded West Wing Reports ® in 2009 (Twitter: @WestWingReport), and provides reports for television and radio outlets around the United States and overseas. He is also a contributing columnist for USA Today, CNN and MarketWatch, and his work has appeared in publications such as The Guardian, Real Clear Politics, National Review and The Week. For The Week,

http://westwingreports.com/about/

Also, Steele has never been a fan of Trump so I doubt he would collude with Russian fake news.

[SticksnStones]

8. What would you suggest then, be the source for information?

The MSM reporting on it? Print? Wait until Matt Taibbi writes something?

One cannot whole-handedly dismiss all that comes from the Twitterverse, IMO. To be sure, there is a great deal of misinformation, but there's also a significant amount of crowd sourced digging going on.

And posting some link here is not really that earth shattering in its consequences should it turn out to be exaggerated.

[Me.]

11. Agree

And, people on DU are, as a rule, usually pretty responsible and capable of setting their own guidelines.

[grantcart]

15. Martha down in accounting has better sorces.

[SticksnStones]

18. Huh?

[ananda]

9. Chill -- see this from Robert Reich

4 definite impeachable offenses and 1 possible

Link to tweet

[mopinko]

12. hey, bs pretty quickly gets called out here. sunshine

sorts it all out. better to put it out there to be knocked down than to just wonder.
it's one of the things i love about this place. i depend on our membership to equip me in the culture wars.

[kentuck]

14. Look for two or more sources:

preferably more.

[grantcart]

16. Couldn't agree more.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

19. Unsubstantiated claims are fine when marked as such and coming from connected reporters.

Mensch marks her claims as being from single sources or several sources or confirmed in various ways, and I have never known her to steer us wrong or make a claim that later turned out to be false.

Mensch is doing an excellent job "to keep the focus on the tax returns, Carter page, Paul manafort, the meetings that took place in Hungary and Russia, Trump's business dealings, Sessions' lies, Russian operatives and intelligence operations, and so much more."

The fake news against Hillary really was and is fake news. It is not comparable to a lot of reporting on Trump-Russia.

[certainot]

20. all they need is to lure a few dem reps and media peeps

into repeating and then they can prove a part fake and use it to destroy the whole case.

that only works because they have 1000 coordinated radio stations that dems ignore

[pnwmom]

22. Woodward and Bernstein relied on Deep Throat.

A great deal of important reporting relies on anonymous sources -- or what you call "unsubstantiated claims."

Louise Mensch was the first reporter to report on the FISA warrant for the Alfa bank server -- followed by the BBC, The Guardian, and McClatchy. The NYTimes, meanwhile, was discounting the story -- and they have since said they were being too "cautious."

And why does she have these intelligence sources? She says it's because she recognized from the start that Snowden was no hero, and she wrote about the danger he put members of intelligence in.

[Me.]

24. Precisely

[tazkcmo]

33. lol

The NYT and their "caution". Funny. They weren't so cautious before the Iraq war. I'm NOT calling them fake news but they certainly have lost some of their luster.

[turbo_satan]

23. Mensch has been eerily prescient and accurate...

...on a number of matters so far. It goes without saying that a healthy dose of skepticism is warranted, but Louise Mensch has been way out in front on pieces of the puzzle ranging from FISA warrants to Manafort's misdeeds to Carter Page's treachery, and so on.

[Sculpin Beauregard]

43. Yup. And, we don't have to look at SillyAnne Konjob

and that other guy...with the white hair...on CNN. I find MSM infotainment frustrating and it's bad for my blood pressure.

[bathroommonkey76]

25. Twitter, really?

Twitter is the best source for news on the Internet- Mensch is an established reporter and Twitter user who has been going after Trump for months. IMO she has done more for the Russia-Trump story than all of the newspapers and MSM combined-- Rachel Maddow would be a close second. Comparing Mensch and the other Twitter users who are working hard to report would be very dumb and irresponsible. How many sources did it take to bring down Richard Nixon?

Link to tweet

[tazkcmo]

30. She's no angel

She's been wrong before and will be again. She has a history that's easily found. However, in this area, her sources have been reliable.

[bathroommonkey76]

31. Plenty of reporters in real journalism have been wrong

about stories they report- Jayson Blair from the NYT is a prime-example of a plagiarist/fake who made-up stories for the NYT. Should I stop reading the NYT b/c he reported fake news?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/mar/06/usa.pressandpublishing

[tazkcmo]

36. We're on the same side here.

First, an answer to your question. No, you shouldn't stop reading the NYT but you should question Jayson Blair's veracity. See? The individual (Blair) doesn't discount the rest of the organization nor did I imply that.

As for Mensch, here's a little back ground.

http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-louise-mensch-and-heat-street-2016-10

Some skepticism is warranted. However, on the Russia/collusion issue, she's been right and her sources reliable.

[bathroommonkey76]

37. Agree 1000%

I'm not a full blown Mensch fan. But like you said a lot of her reporting on the Russia story has been right.

My thoughts about Blair were in response to your 'she's no angel' comment. None of the press are angels- When the best known newspaper site in the world hires a plagiarist, then I think it's a big deal to question their reporting (just like other sites). Of course all of this happened years ago and I'm sure their hiring and proofreading polices changed as a result of Blair's firing.

I'm skeptical about a lot of opinions on DU, Twitter, major news sites. lol

[tazkcmo]

38. It's American to doubt

The NYT also gave us Maureen Dowd (grrrrrrrrrrrrrr)! I worded that horribly but I'm thankful for the chance to clear up my position on this. Thank you for taking the time to read my response.

[bathroommonkey76]

40. No, thank you.

Last edited Mon Apr 17, 2017, 06:31 PM - Edit history (2)

Don't worry we're not having a Strunk & White competition. lol

[Progressive dog]

26. We need to leave the BS to Trump

and his Russian bots. We don't want to distract from them.

[tazkcmo]

29. When they are alone.

In cases like this one (The Russian/collusion connection) it's folks like these that are breaking the stories. Having said that, I always watch for additional confirmation from other sources. So far, they have been spot on in this area and have been backed up by more traditional sources.

A healthy dose of skepticism is always warranted when dealing with reports from anonymous sources, so, I don't blame you for being wary. As for the rest of us, you'll just have to understand some have more faith in these sources than you.

[Softail1]

45. yup..been sayin it all week...too many "Eureka!" moments have gone nowhere

...and people keep acting like all we need is some minor offense to get an impeachment...ya right. as if the Republican controlled House and Senate are going to just go right along with us on that...let's save the excitement for when something real, and provable happens, shall we?

[cwydro]

49. Thank you.

People are getting very silly here lately.

[wishstar]

51. It annoys me to see OP's with false claims such as Trump not attending church on Easter

Mainstream news covered his attending church on Easter, so there was no excuse for DU'ers to spread an obvious falsehood spinning wheels that make us look as delusional as the right-wingers who generated fake outrage over stuff they made up about Pres. Obama. Easter church attendance is just one example of DU'ers spreading easily debunked nonsense.

However, the Trump/Russia rumors and theories based on alleged unsubstantiated intelligence leaks at least have a grain of truth and are worthy of discussion. Legitimate leaks are coming out due to slowness of FBI and Congressional investigations. But caution is advised since there is a concerted effort by Trump camp to shut down the story and discredit whistleblowers, hence falsehoods could be deliberately propagated to discredit those who are seen as threatening to Trump camp.

[mercuryblues]

52. I just wish

people would stop posting twits as news. Or at least put "tweet" in the headline. I so enjoy reading a headline, only to click on it and the OP is a tweet. If it was important enough to post, find a news story and post that.