General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe retail apocalypse is creating a 'rolling crisis' that is rippling through the US economy
Retailers are closing thousands of stores and going bankrupt at a rate not seen since the recession, and tens of thousands of people are losing their jobs as a result.
The effects of these job losses will hit local economies hard, according to Mark Cohen, the director of retail studies at Columbia Business School.
"This is creating a slow-rolling crisis," Cohen told Business Insider. "The people that work in retail stores will lose their jobs, then spend less money in retail stores because they are no longer employed. That creates a a cascade of economic challenges."
Since October, 89,000 workers in general merchandise stores have lost their jobs, which is more than the number of people employed in the entire US coal industry, reports The New York Times.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-retail-apocalypse-is-creating-a-rolling-crisis-that-is-rippling-through-the-us-economy/ar-BBzWIWZ?li=BBnb7Kz
niyad
(113,071 posts)Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)No pesky middle class muddying up the economic waters means they can build their islands and enclaves so they don't get gibbetted in the streets.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Orrex
(63,172 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)in the unemployment line.
Of course Dump's party might institute a full employment law that will force those lazy shiftless former retail workers to pick tomatoes 12 hrs a day under the hot sun after they run off all the "rapist" Mexicans huh?
DK504
(3,847 posts)will be the most damaged.
notdarkyet
(2,226 posts)machoneman
(3,997 posts)No, it's Obama's fault!
Hey, maybe Warren's fault!
bagelsforbreakfast
(1,427 posts)HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Automation isn't "just like teh Industural Revolushrun" because back then, swaths of labor gravitated to whatever new technology/method replaced the old one. Automation cuts labor out of the equation COMPLETELY.
And no, we're not all going to "be coders", "robotic experts" or "be teh next Amazon!". Law of diminishing returns - if everyone was "super", no one would be. Entrepreneurs don't have a "gene for risk"; they're rich people with safety nets. Also, not everyone is going to be able to compete with people naturally inclined to math and logic and would do it anyway regardless of whether it kept the lights on.
Some of us just want to work and earn a paycheck, but that's apparently not allowed in 2017. Good luck getting that diploma on minimum wage or nothing.
People better solve this oncoming problem fast unless you WANT to see Capitalism grind to a screeching halt.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Automation isn't going away. In fact, it will only increase. So, what do we do? UBI?
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts). . . . in other words, "not viably based in reality" (according to the Very Serious People).
1. Get rid of outmoded corporate hierarchies that foster inequality, turnover, horrible morale and punishment. Stress cooperation over competition. Allow the workers a say in company direction; including wages, benefits, retirement and rights.
2. America at the very least NEEDS to gravitate to a multi-payer system, like, last DECADE. It's absolutely fucking IDIOTIC that a human right granted to over 1 BILLION people worldwide is somehow an American moderate's idea of a "Pony" and anyone to the right of Joe Lieberturd's idea of "SOVIET RUSSIA!!!!1!!" GEEEEEZE, GET OFF THAT. That's 80s thinking, get out of the 80s!!! My GOD, Reagan's as skeletal as his rhetoric was. This is the goddamned 21st century, START ACTING LIKE IT. Health is a human RIGHT. Anyone's "Costs need to be recouped" argument is proof positive that such a cost is NOT best handled by private corporations with upflowing financial hierarchies.
3. There needs to be a UBI for every unemployed/part time citizen, but at the very least (and if we're looking somewhere to start) for citizens older than 55 displaced by technology and unemployable. There's NO reason to send people on ice floes to die. Retirement age needs to be lowered; right now, we have a bottleneck because necessity costs overwhelming a stagnant overall wage are preventing savings from happening.
4. College education/Trade Schools need to be taxpayer funded. There is NO reason to expect our kids to finance 1/2 to 3/4 of a mortgage for the crime of bettering themselves. We're NEVER going to advance if that piece of paper is only reserved for the upper middle class and above. I'm also in the mindset that "Trades" aren't exactly the milk-and-honey job market the Mike Rowes of the world say it is. Around Ohio, I hear horror story after horror story among tradespersons involving layoffs, employment droughts, low pay, etc. etc.
Of course, none of this is going to happen as long as Americans keep being willing recipients for Republican "opportunity".
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)But we do have to recognize, IMO, that automation is not going to be stopped.
Xolodno
(6,384 posts)But allow me to parlay another factor. The retail implosion could have gone slower and more tapered if income inequality wasn't so freaking bad here. Bet a lot of high up management promoted voting GOP, donated, argued for tax cuts, etc. Congratulations numb-nuts, you just shot yourself in the foot.
UBI of course will be decried as "welfare for all the lazy people and mooching off of my tax dollars!". No matter how much I explain to friends and relatives who tout that, a changing economy and automation will make this necessary, they refuse to believe it.
The only way I have been able to get a message into their thick skulls is to stop accepting they are rational and intelligent enough to understand some basics of economics and appeal directly to their base emotions.
So I tell them "have you ever worked with or hired a lazy good for nothing? And you want to push these people into the work force which will hamper companies progress and make things more costly for you? Or cost you that bonus because your division didn't hit its goal because one person refuses to do anything more than they are required to? Or cost you that promotion because your unit doesn't out perform? You really want MORE of them working around you? You really want to be the only guy who goes the extra mile for your job? The poverty amount they get on welfare is a lot cheaper than the cost to you if they were in the workforce...or worse, they decide to start robbing your house. Let the hard workers excel rather than saddle them with dead beat workers. Plus cutting off welfare also hurts the people who do need it"
That always seems to work. It's sad I have to go that route, but, some "hard workers" really can't see past their own nose.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)The CEOs that made those pro-wealthy decisions are already rich. Too bad for the average American!
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Perhaps low-end coders will be in high demand. They just won't get paid much.
We need better labor laws to make those low end jobs livable and fight concentration of wealth at the top.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Commercial Roofer
ProTex - Dallas, TX
Commercial roofers needed.
Must pass background check
Must be willing to travel 3 weeks on 1 week off
Room for advancement
Installing coatings and seamless systems.
Great opportunity for right persons.
Benefits include
Health insurance after 90
401k after 1 year
1 week vacation after 1 year
Company phone
Tablet for foreman
Job Type: Full-time
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)No health insurance for three months and no 401k for a year. I mean COME on, America. "Beggars can't be choosers", and all that, but that shit's ARCHAIC.
This is just one more reason why we need to take all of this stuff OUT of the hands of private employers and publicly MANDATE it . . . like every other civilized nation does. Of course, as long as America, public AND private, are run by private employers who think America would be better if it were run as a corporation, it's merely a pipe dream.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)world wide wally
(21,738 posts)We should thank our lucky stars Mexicans (or anyone else) is willing to do it.
BREMPRO
(2,331 posts)5 WHOLE days vacation out of 365 days work after one year of working on hot dangerous roofs is inhumane, exploitative and unbelievable.
radical noodle
(7,997 posts)before they made it to health insurance or vacation. They'll have plenty of vacations, but not paid ones, because like much of construction work, there are slow times where there's no work at all. With luck they'll be able to draw unemployment during those slow times... if they're employees and not subs.
Sgent
(5,857 posts)you only work 3 weeks out of 4, so you have 13 weeks off in addition I would think.
DK504
(3,847 posts)They would go crying to the gubmint and get insane amounts of money and tax breaks. While we fall into a depression and the "capitalists" will be able to hire workers as .50 an hour.
We all know/knew the Walmart/Starbucks part-time job plan has proven to be a disaster.
Dustlawyer
(10,494 posts)are shopping online. Walmart still killing retail as well since people cannot afford to shop at Macy's.
HAB911
(8,867 posts)we may be headed for a depression. He's killing tourism and will kill tens of thousands of gov't jobs
EPA to drop 3,000 jobs as Upper Midwest gets its reward for helping Trump
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/4/18/1654032/-EPA-to-drop-3-000-jobs-as-Upper-Midwest-gets-its-reward-for-helping-Trump
DFW
(54,295 posts)I have friends who were America fans and regular yearly visitors from decades back. They won't be coming this year, or any year as long as we are being led by "him." Other friends of mine who have business in the States, one from the UK, the other from Switzerland, have canceled normally scheduled trips so far this year. They MAY make one where they normally make four or five. Even my wife, a German citizen who comes with me often, will come with me to Cape Cod this year. Our elder daughter, who lives in New York City, will visit us there, but my wife will not travel outside of Massachusetts, and will return to Europe from there instead of accompanying me on my usual summer odyssey around North America.
I doubt that many of the EPA workers were Trump supporters, and the loss of their positions will probably be gleefully greeted by Trump fans, who somehow think that putting more people out of work is making America great as long as the ones newly unemployed are "libbruls."
foreign tourism and international student education is going to be hit... that loss is all on trump and his mindless bluster.
Luz
(772 posts)always been a huge shopping week for them, but this year, they didn't come as expected. TRumps fault.
burnbaby
(685 posts)I thought played a big part in the closings of the stores. I buy almost everything online
louis-t
(23,267 posts)shipping can be ridiculous. Other than saving time, unless you spend a fortune to get free shipping I don't see how anyone saves money buying online. I bought a car part online and did save a bunch. I decided to buy an air filter while I was on the site. $2.50! What a deal! Shipping was $11! I can buy one for 8 bucks across the street. And I believe as time goes on, shipping costs will go up a lot. Especially if the repugs privatize the post office.
unc70
(6,109 posts)Property taxes, sales taxes, income taxes -- all are eroded by loss of local retailers, whether independents or national chains.
LisaM
(27,794 posts)I buy almost nothing online, with the exception of airline tickets, mostly because that's about the only option anymore. If I need to special order a book, I do it through my indie bookstore, which can almost always get it within a week. I don't even go to the self-serve at the grocery store, because I feel that it could be costing someone a job.
At some level, the consumer is at fault for this - not entirely, of course, and some people, especially the elderly and disabled, can't necessary get out and about to shop. But I've always made a huge effort to patronize local stores and restaurants and at some level I get resentful as they continue to pull down the shades and lock the doors, because something I like is being taken from me.
ProfessorPlum
(11,253 posts)they can't spend it in your shiny stores on shiny things.
Who knew?
I blame this on all of those corporate types who just loved smashing wages down for the last 35 years. You've destroyed your own customer base.
Lyricalinklines
(367 posts)pnwmom
(108,955 posts)LisaM
(27,794 posts)It just sounds so awful.
elmac
(4,642 posts)Retail replaced factory jobs and now they are ending. So burger flipping will be the new economic driver, 3rd world hellhole economy.
world wide wally
(21,738 posts)(such as solar or wind or alternative energy jobs) so they will be opposed from the start.
Welcome to the jobless economy
lark
(23,061 posts)Misogynist haters make me sick!
DFW
(54,295 posts)She said things went from "OK" in the last quarter to "miserable" in the first quarter of this year. No one hit their target. In retail, no job is safe if numbers go south, and although she has been with her company (now Canadian-owned), a venerable American clothing store chain, for ten years, and is one of their more appreciated employees, if the word comes from Canada to downsize to stem the red ink, the decent (for NYC) salary she has finally worked her way up to could vanish in a puff of smoke tomorrow. If so, it will be indicative of the whole retail situation, and she won't find a new position quickly. She loves living in New York, and would hate to move, but if it means surviving, and she finds a job here, she'll move back to Germany. Luckily, both my daughters have retained their dual citizenship, so she can move back to Germany any time she wants, and as they are both fully bilingual, language won't be a problem in getting a job. On the other hand, she just acquired a new boyfriend in New York, and THAT might be more difficult to give up.
JI7
(89,240 posts)Because the reason born for the us is internet sales . Wouldn't the same apply to germany ?
I'm not so sure the problem is just the internet. I think there are issues with the businesses themselves such as opening too many locations,high rent, not adjusting better to changes in tech etc
DFW
(54,295 posts)Not booming, but on a steady course. Not everyone is prospering, but very few are hurting, and that is the way most Germans like it. Although Schultz is touted as a kind a breath of fresh air from the left, he is turning to be nothing other than another priveleged bureaucrat who spent the last years as a pampered Eurocrat in Brussels. His only slogan is "mehr Gerechtigkeit (more justice)," and since there seems to be more of it in Germany than anywhere else in the EU (Denmark possibly excepted), it will need some polishing if he hopes to unseat Merkel. Merkel is the target of an "alt und verbraucht (old and used up)" slur campaign from the left, and far fewer Germans are buying it than did when the equivalent was used on Hillary. Incumbency DOES make a difference.
Internet sales are big here, too, but plenty of people still like to do their shopping in person. Many places deliver, and Germany is in general set up differently from the USA. Towns and villages have their own city centers, often set up so that people can walk to the center of town to the local Hospital, bank, café, open air market, library, etc. That's how it is in the town where I live, and the local train station is a five minute drive from my house. The nearest intercontinental airport is a 15 minute drive (25 if lots of traffic). We will order on line if what e want can't be had locally, but we tend to try to support local businesses, in person and in cash.
Spreading yourself too thin is always a danger, especially in Europe, where firing employees is at best an expensive proposition, unless you plan to go bankrupt and close down altogether. High rent has forced out some of the small businesses in our town where the landlord doubled the rent overnight on a few of our favorite local places, and then rented out to national chains that were totally unnecessary. Many of us make it a point to not do business in the local branches of national chains that forced out our favorite cafés and/or snack joints. Now they are poorly visited branches of mass travel agencies or cell phone chains or shoe stores.
On the other hand, many shops and cafés have made the transition well. Our open-air farmers market is well-visited and very popular. It draws people even from surrounding towns. It opens up three times a week, like it has been doing for the last 800 years or so. Not everything here happens inside a smart phone.
greymattermom
(5,751 posts)I went to two of them one day this week, Home Depot and Super Target, to get a few things. When I returned, my phone told me I walked 1.2 miles. I'm old. I like my walks, but when I was inside one of the stores I realized the thing I wanted to look at would have resulted in at least another half mile walk. Forget it, I ordered it on Amazon. Amazon has reviews, many options, and you don't have to look forever to find your size.
cubbies01
(85 posts)This has been a longtime coming with concrete and glass retail shopping. What is interesting is I think the service and restaurant business sector is booming and replacing many of these. The latest two retail developments where I live (Tallahassee) are 2/3rds eating and drinking places (many of them are great) with Salons and Nail places and specialty niche retail stores. What is interesting, is most new stores are all locally owned vs chains.
Retail stores that sell easy to get online are never going to survive. They were doomed the moment the Amazon Prime model worked.
Interestingly, there are a lot of new jobs in the logistics side too.
I have mixed emotions on the whole shift. My favorite thing in the world was sipping a coffee at Borders and looking through books and cds. My kids will never know that joy.
in New Orleans the chain stores in the suburbs are closing up, but specialty shops keep on opening.
I loved Borders and still go to Barnes and Noble -- I used a nook specifically to support B&N until it just wouldn't work anymore (website outages). That said, I always enjoyed libraries, especially academic libraries, more.
samnsara
(17,605 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,238 posts)They had people working there for whom it was a career. The guy who sold you the refrigerator at Sears really knew about refrigerators. When was the last time a store employee measured your foot and retrieved the proper size shoe for you? Or pulled a suit off the rack at a clothing store that was exactly your size, and pulled out a piece of chalk and marked the cuffs to be altered to the proper length?
If there's no one at the store to give you knowledgeable help then why not just buy it online?
I live in a small town where there are still some small privately owned businesses that have this kind of customer service, but they are having difficulty competing with the Amazons of the world. We have a large locally owned home improvement store with skilled and knowledgeable employees who are mostly retired contractors. The will recommend the right product, tell you what tools you need and how to do the job. I go to the Home Depot in a nearby city and find mostly people who don't know much about their products, are most likely not well paid, and will probably move on to some other job in a short time - if they can find one.
It's a damn shame. I feel helpless but all I can do is support the local stuff as long as I can afford it. I'm sure I'm a rarity because I can honestly say I have never bought anything from Amazon.
Old man grumpy rant/off.
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)Alex4Martinez
(2,193 posts)We need to live smaller-footprint lives, even if the transition hurts at first.
Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)
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sellitman
(11,605 posts)How's all that winning coming along?
So much winning
The best winning