Snap-On Tools.

[MineralMan]

Excellent quality tools for professionals. They pretty much set a standard for top-of-the-line hand tools. They are, however, quite expensive, so a lot of people who have to buy their own tools opt for less expensive professional tools. Here's an example of what is their ultimate set of professional hand tools for mechanics:



https://store.snapon.com/U-S-Set-6-9600GSO-P641843.aspx

The retail price for this set, without the storage cabinets and toolboxes, is $33,415.00. And even this set of tools would be enhanced by an individual mechanic with a range of specialized tools to suit a particular line of work. Tools are part of the investment the workman is expected to make, since people like auto mechanics are expected to bring their own hand tools to the job. It's an expensive investment.

[2naSalit]

1. That is so true...

there are several trades that require the professional worker to have their own tools of one sort or another. I ran a gasoline tanker in California for a while and I had to purchase all the street maps (Thomas Bros.) which filled a small suitcase that I had to have with me for each shift and had to make a hefty investment in those and my own work boots.

All the mechanics I know have their own tools and spend a good amount of their time and income in maintaining their "set". Most of them also have regular visits with the traveling Snap-On guy.

[MineralMan]

4. Oh, yes. All work stops when the Snap-On truck pulls in.

The amount of money mechanics spend on tools can boggle the mind.

[2naSalit]

5. Yup...

it's like keeping a second family in comfort.

[dalton99a]

7. Their franchise requirements are kind of hefty

Initial Investment: $169,503 - $350,231
Net-worth Requirement: $30,000
Liquid Cash Requirement: $33,019 - $50,183
Initial Franchise Fee: $7,500 - $15,000
Ongoing Royalty Fee: $110/mo.
Training Onsite: 135 hours
Training at headquarters: 57 hours

[MineralMan]

26. Wow! I had never looked that stuff up.

That is a large investment. Not a bad business, though, and an interesting one, too. The tool truck guy gets to drive around and visit all sorts of workplaces. I never thought about that as a possible business. It would have been an interesting one, though.

Oh, well. Too late for that now.

[Eliot Rosewater]

29. Speaking of franchises, rented this last night

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4276820/

No spoilers, but you can learn a lot from watching this movie about the mindset of corporate America.

Mr. Keaton is of course, brilliant. Good movie.

[dalton99a]

2. Nice to have if you can find them at a garage sale

But I have managed perfectly fine without them.

[DetlefK]

3. I cannot shake the feeling that not all of them are necessary.

20 sorts of screwdrivers?
100 sorts of jaw wrenches?
200 sorts of Allen wrenches?

[MineralMan]

8. Well, in a way, that's true.

However, each of the tools in that ultimate set has a specific purpose. You can, of course, use a different tool, if you don't have the exact one needed for a particular operation. However, to use your screwdriver example, if you use a screwdriver that doesn't exactly fit the screw, you're liable to damage the head of the screw or have the driver slip when you attempt to loosen or tighten it.

There are also different sorts of Allen socket forms. You need the right tool to work with each. Again, you might be able to get by with the wrong tool, but, the same issues arise sometimes.

As for those wrenches, it's interesting. If you actually looked at them, you might understand their differences better. Some have a thin wall around the openings. Others are of different lengths. Some have offset working ends at different angles. Some have 6-point openings, while others have 12-point openings. There's a reason for each variation, and the experienced mechanic will choose the tools that will make whatever job easier, more efficient, and with less risk of the tool slipping.

Most mechanics don't have that full set of tools. Instead, they have a basic set, supplemented with individual tools they find that they need in their particular work. It's a never-ending search for exactly the right tool for every operation.

[Retrograde]

35. As they say, you can't be too rich

or have too many screwdrivers. You need a variety of different sized blades (is that what you call the part on the end?) ranging from teeny-tiny for taking apart your laptop to the big ones. Then there are the various shaft lengths because sometimes you need the leverage and sometimes you need to get in close. And then there's flat-head vs philips-head screws, which need different drivers (and there are other types of head as well). As for Allen wrenches, in the US you need both metric and English ones.

Everyone may not need every single one, but when you do need a specific tool it makes a big difference if you have the right one for the job. Some cities have community tool libraries, where one can borrow a specific tool for a short time just like one borrows books.

When it comes down to it, man is a tool-buying animal

[Foamfollower]

6. Go with a cheaper tool like Kobalt, Harbor Freight, Mac or Matco.

It used to be Snap-on was the last to manufacture it all in the US. Now all of it is outsourced to China and the same factories that make the Snap-On tools will make tools that are branded for companies that sell them much cheaper.

Save yourself some money because otherwise with Snap-On, all you are paying extra for is the name and no longer the quality that used to go with the name.

[MineralMan]

13. A lot of people do exactly that.

While I've worked as a mechanic from time to time, and still do a lot of automotive work, I've never been a top-of-the-line mechanic. My tool set is a mixture of brands and levels of quality, and has been assembled over a number of decades. Few people ever buy that set from Snap-On. That really isn't how a professional tool set is assembled by individuals.

I just thought it was interesting to see such a set of tools and to see just how much such a set costs.

I know that there are over 1000 pieces in my own tool set, and I know I didn't pay that much for them. A lot of them are actually used tools I've acquired over the years. I do favor Snap-On, but I also will pick up Proto tools whenever I can find them. But, for some things, Craftsman, or other second-level brands are just fine. I have a few tools from Harbor Freight, too, along with the other brands you mentioned.

My intent with this was to give people some sort of idea of the cost of hand tools.

[dalton99a]

14. Not sure about HF

HF is a huge mixed bag. Their made-in-Taiwan hand tools seem to be ok. Their made-in-China stuff (especially powered tools) is pretty much for one-time use.

[MineralMan]

20. Exactly.

The trouble is, it can be very difficult to identify what is good and what will break your knuckle based on appearance. I use Harbor Freight when I need to buy a tool that I'll rarely ever use, but need for a particular task right now.

I really needed an oscillating saw for a job where I had to cut an opening in the outside wall of my house, but didn't know what was under the vinyl siding. Those oscillating saws are perfect for that kind of thing, especially with a metal cutting blade. So, I headed to Harbor Freight and bought one of their cheapo models, but paid for a higher quality blade. It worked great, and cost little. it cut through wire, nails, and whatever else it encountered under that vinyl siding. I doubt I'll ever use it again, though. If I were going to use it regularly, I'd have bought a different brand that I could count on to work for the long haul.

However, I will not buy any tool from Harbor Freight that uses a great deal of force to use. A broken tool in such circumstances can cause a serious injury. Gear Pullers are a good example. I had a cheap one break once, and throw bits of metal in all directions. Never again.

[hunter]

32. Harbor Freight sells a lot of bloody knuckle tools.

You get bloody knuckles when the wrench or socket breaks while you are trying to loosen a stubborn bolt in a tight space, or you get bloody knuckles when you punch a wall in frustration because a tool strips out or quits working.

My brothers and I used to do a lot of work on our cars and motorcycles on my parent's driveway when we were teens, and of course we didn't always have money for decent tools, having spent it all on (over-optimistically) repairable $200-400 cars and motorcycles.

Whenever our cheap tools broke we'd throw them as far as we could out into the field nearest our house.

One year my dad hired a crew to clear the field of drying weeds just before the yearly fire inspection. (It's a southern California thing.) In the past that was always work for my brothers and me, but we all had regular jobs by then and were all full of ourselves, and my dad simply didn't want to deal with that.

My dad expected the people he hired would show up with some heavy brush cutting machines and finish the job in an hour or two, but instead they sent out one Mexican guy with a weed-eater, who, at the end of his very long day, dutifully left a pile of the broken tools he'd found in the field on our front porch.

The funny thing is that some of these were old broken tools, maybe from the 'thirties and 'forties. The property next door once had a work shed that had belonged to an oil company. (It burned down in one of those big Southern California fires I won't forget...) Evidently some of the guys who'd worked in that shed had thrown their broken tools into the same field, probably in the same ill-tempered manner me and my brothers had.

[Arkansas Granny]

9. I've known several auto mechanics and for some of them Snap-On is like an addiction.

They can hardly wait for the sales rep to stop by on his route so they can add to their collection.

[pangaia]

10. Yikes.!

Well, in my (former) field

A set of 5 of some of the best timpani in the world can run over $50,000-$60,000.
https://www.facebook.com/HardtkeTimpani/

Then there are all the other instruments a percussionist must have, could easily add 50% to that.

Of course...
Then there are the string players... let's not even talk about that.

I have a friend who is a rising young international concert violinist.. she has an early 18th century Stradivarius worth about $6,000,000 - on loan, for nowl

[MineralMan]

15. Yes. Every field of work has its own top-of-the-line tools.

I used to play the oboe, semi-professionally. A top-of-the-line oboe costs about $10,000. I never owned such an instrument. It wouldn't have made any sense for me. I coveted the idea of owning one, though.

[pangaia]

19. For better or for worse I have very 'expensive ears.'

[MineralMan]

21. Always a problem, for sure.

[BillyBobBrilliant]

11. My mechanic father

Introduced me to Snap-On Tool and the local 'jobber' that traveled from shop to shop, just as did the Mac Tools salesman. (in the 1960s)
However, in his final analysis: The tools are okay, but you can't beat the warranty!

Of course, he said that about Craftsman tools too (lifetime, no questions asked warranty).

[MineralMan]

17. Craftsman hand tools are strong, but clumsy.

That's always been my experience with them. Too much metal around the working openings of wrenches, for example. I can't tell you how many times a Craftsman box wrench wouldn't fit in the space to access the fastener, while the equivalent Snap-On or Proto tool had no problem getting in there.

Craftsman tools are strong, but clumsy.

[RKP5637]

30. Exactly!!! I've had that happen many times!!! Anymore, I've taken to estate sales to find tools.

It's just amazing what you can pickup in some yard sales and estate sales. I do a variety of work on my own cars, and also flipped a number of houses, etc. So, I have an oddball assortment of stuff. Probably fits my personality too! LOL!

[Smickey]

36. FYI, Sears to sell craftsman to Black and Decker.

Hope this does not change that outstanding return policy.

[MineralMan]

37. I suspect they're just selling the brand name.

Black and Decker is known for its power tools, but these days, most of them are manufactured in China. Sears is not long for the retail world, frankly, and the quality of its branded products is way down.

My bet is that Black and Decker will be selling Chinese made tools with the Craftsman brand. While they may offer a lifetime exchange warranty, the consumer may still get sub-standard tools. The reality is that most people never break a hand tool. Most people don't use them enough to break them. It's an easy warranty to offer, because of that.

I haven't bought a Craftsman tool for years. At least 20 years. I just don't. At one time, some of their stationary power tools, particularly radial arm saws, were excellent. More recently, the quality has diminished. While they offer a lifetime guarantee on hand tools, that does not mean that their hand tools are of excellent quality. I just means that if you manage to break one of them, they'll give you a new one. That sounds good, but if you use tools daily, Craftsman just doesn't get it, really.

Stanley bought Proto, too. Now, Stanley makes some good tools, for sure, especially woodworking hand tools. But, Proto was right up there in quality for mechanics tools. I doubt that quality will be maintained for long, now that Stanley owns the brand. Watch for the word "China" to appear on Proto tools from Stanley.

To a certain degree, you do get what you pay for with hand tools. You can pay too much, of course, but the best tools from the top brands are still the best tools you can buy. They may be better than you need, though, if you're not using them professionally.

[Boxerfan]

12. I had my toolbox etc... insured for 60k

And still I was hard pressed to get over $15.00 -per hour billed-in a shop that charged $70.00 hourly for my labor.

That was toward the end of my "career" about 14 years ago. And they pushed "sales" not actual service. This was due to the billing as your pay was directly tied to sales. Glad I'm out.

Back to Snap on. They have very aggressive sales and are more than happy to open a account for you even if you have bad credit etc. And they come to the shop. In many cases-this is key-the Snap on guy is the only break they get during the work schedule. A/C truck & lots of shiny goodies-very easy to get hooked into a large chunk of your paycheck going to feed the truck.

But it was an investment. And one of my problems was a liberal with a opinion was not a welcome addition no matter how talented you were. I was always early & did quality work. But not selling fluff items & tending to be a consumer advocate got me more trouble than I can recount. Then when the W wars started I was the odd man out & taunted till I broke.

Ended up in a wrecking yard having too damn much fun. But I injured a arm & had a more serious health issue sideline me. Thank Goodness.

Sold my Snap on stuff & kept the cheap stuff for personal use. Just a old VW bus to tend to nowadays & it doesn't know the difference.

I think their days are numbered-the market is flooded by Harbor freight etc...

Many specialty tools are now readily available there & online. I know it has cut the market but they will always have the die hard types. The people they likely voted for cut their throats how ironic.

[MineralMan]

16. Yes. The disparity between the tool ownership expectations and the

pay of a mechanic has always been an issue. These days, I'm just an amateur mechanic, and don't need all that fancy stuff. My tool boxes are full of a crazy mixture of brands, mostly purchased at garage sales, etc. Some are high-end stuff, though. I'm always watching for great tools at ridiculously low prices. But, whatever gets the job done is usually what I pick out of the drawer or off the wall of my garage.

Now, if I could just figure out why the drill bit I need is completely invisible until after I run to the hardware store to buy a new one. Once I return to my garage, I always spot the bit I was looking for right away.

[House of Roberts]

18. I have a mix of the popular brands.

I worked on Porsche cars for about ten years when machinist jobs got scarce after the Challenger disaster. Depending on what I needed and which manufacturer carried it, I have Snap On, Mac, Matco, SK, Proto, Blackhawk, Craftsman, and some off brand stuff. The cheap stuff is great if you need to modify the tool, either by grinding off some or bending with a torch.
After spending over thirty years collecting every tool I could afford for machinist work, I now work for a company that doesn't allow personal tools on site. They provide everything and it is mostly Snap On or Blue Point (also Snap On) with the specific machinist tools made by Starrett. The thing is, I was looking forward to getting my toolbox out of my front room, but now I can't. They do pay very well, so I'm probably there as long as they have enough work to keep me on.

[MineralMan]

23. One of the worst thing about really cheap hand tools,

especially wrenches, is that if they break, you're going to bust a knuckle or tear some skin. They always break at the time you're applying maximum force, so the potential for injury is high.

Cheap tools cause more injuries. That's the rule.

[snooper2]

22. There is a reason they are called Snap Off LOL

I broke a half inch drive snap off ratchet trying to break some bolts on a truck a long time ago as a teenager. Couldn't handle a little three foot breaker bar. My neighbors Craftsman held up and finished the job-

Was a Craftsman guy ever since

[MineralMan]

24. Well, if you're using a cheater on a ratchet, you're

going to push the ratchet handle past its limits.

Tools are designed to be used as they are. If you have to break something loose, put the ratchet handle away and grab a breaker bar and socket that are designed to do that. If you use a tool for a job for which it wasn't designed, it will break. Rule one.

[SonofDonald]

25. Cheap snap on tools

There is a way to get the best tools for cheap.

I found that if you go to pawn shops and look at the tools you'll find that you can get snap on and other fine tools from anywhere to 1/2 to 2/3rds off the retail price.

Believe it or not that's how much the markdown on pawn shop buys really is.

DO NOT BUY tools that are engraved except for one caveat: broken tools, a broken tool from snap on, Mac, etc can be purchased and taken to the tool truck of the manufacturer who if that's the company's policy will replace them on the spot.

An engraved tool is not a good buy as although a pawn shop is supposed to report any tools they have to the authorities to help in identifying stolen items, but it's not a perfect world you know?.

I built my collection that way at every opportunity over my career, I saved thousands of dollars that way and still ended up with the good stuff, buy sets of wrenches even if one is broken, they'll hand you a new one no questions asked.

When I retired I sold the larger 3/4 inch socket and ratchets sets as I saw no further need for them, the rest go to my son in my will.

It can be done easily, just keep your eyes open and remember, the pawn shop will barter on the price also.

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

And don't get me started on craftsmen tools, run away, run away....

[MineralMan]

28. I'm still buying Snap-On and Proto tools at garage

sales and wherever else I see them at great prices. From time to time, you'll walk into a sale and see a box of assorted hand tools, often marked $1 each. I cannot resist looking through them and pulling out the high-end ones and buying them. That's why there's a 1/2" and 9/16" combination wrench nearby in my cluttered shop all the time. I must have a dozen or more of the most commonly-used sizes. Same with metric now. 10mm, 12mm, 14mm combination wrenches. There's one within reach almost wherever I am in my garage. I have my father's habit of putting a wrench down and never putting it away. I need all of those duplicates, it seems.

[Yonnie3]

27. Snap-On came by where I worked and I wasn't impressed

I bought just a few tools from them and they were pricey. One was an ignition wrench set where the plating chipped off the very first time they were used. I exchanged them every time the truck came, as well as screw drivers with the same problem. This was in the 1990s.

The sockets sets and tappet wrenches that the mechanics bought seemed to be better quality.

The factory mechanics and techs got a $1000 per year tool allowance. This was intended to replace worn tools. They had to keep the tools at work and show receipts in order to get the allowance. Their typical kit ran two to five thousand dollars.

[cojoel]

31. my dad had some free screwdrivers

My dad (who was not a mechanic) worked at a large aerospace company way back when, and at some point in his career he rose to the level of a reserved parking space. One day he arrived to find the snap-on truck parked in his space. So he parked elsewhere and wrote a note telling the driver the spaces in that area were reserved, and some other people might be more upset about it than he was.

The driver sought him out and gave him some small screwdrivers as an apology gift. My dad didn't want them but the driver insisted. They were the nicest screwdrivers I ever used.

[MindPilot]

33. The first 20 years of my working life was as a Ford tech

I still have most of my tools (I sold the big separate anything from anything puller set) and the big beautiful red cabinet. And those big beautiful red cabinets cost as much as the tool sets--several thousand dollars.

I was one of those kind of addicted, not to Snap-on, but tools in general. Still am to a certain extent; I have tools still in the package, I may never use it, but damn it, if you need a water manometer, I have one!

I was audited a few times; the IRS agent was always a bit amazed that someone who made 40k per year spent $6k on tools.

[SonofDonald]

34. Those big red tool boxes.....

Those big red or any color toolboxes are so expensive because the brand new retail price includes a 100% markup that is profit for the distributor.

That's right, he paid one half what he sells them to you for.

Your best bet is to look for a used box in pawnshops or on the many websites such as C'list on the net.

The dealer also has used boxes for sale from time to time that were traded in on a new box.

But he/she still gets a good profit on the new box and of course will make up any "loss" taking a trade in by selling you the used box to make up any "loss" for taking it in trade, and most likely makes even more than they would for a straight sale.

There's plenty of used boxes out there, and your tools don't care where you store them.

[NWCorona]

38. I'm with you on getting the best tools you can afford. I use USAG or FACOM tools mostly.

[Lee-Lee]

39. Snap-On sadly has moved to a predatory lending model for much of its income

They know many of their customers have poor credit and don't have the cash to buy tools so they run Snap-On credit that charges anywhere from 15-26% interest.

They keep their customers in a state of constant high-interest debt that is only one step removed from what payday lenders do. The mechanic needs the tools to work and they know they know that

They do the same for their franchise owners, ones who can't afford to finance their inventory with cash pay them 15-18% interest.

It has created a high interest multi layer debt trap so big that almost 25% of the companies profits now come from their finance side.

[MineralMan]

40. I've never bought a tool on credit. I never will.