HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Sernie Banders: A Though...

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:47 AM

Sernie Banders: A Thought Experiment


Let's think this through, together.

What is the Democratic coalition? Democratic politicians and party members, and other politicians and other voters who will often vote Democratic or support Democratic policies.

What would one do if they wanted to weaken the Democratic coalition?

If I wanted to weaken the Democratic coalition, I would want to drive wedges between the different groups.

What would one do if they wanted to strengthen the Democratic coalition?

If I wanted to strengthen the Democratic coalition, I would want to emphasize what the different groups have in common, and how they can work together towards common goals.

Tom Perez, the head of the DNC, is someone who has an interest in strengthening the Democratic coalition. He seems to be doing this by bringing different members of the Democratic coalition together and working with them, emphasizing their common interests, and using different parts of the Democratic coalition to excite and unite the different members of the Democratic coalition.

Personally, as someone who wants to strengthen the Democratic coalition, I welcome all members of the Democratic coalition, whether they are Democratic party members or not, to work together with us towards common goals. I personally am a Democrat, but I love that there are other people who, even though they are not Democrats, work with the party to further goals that help all Americans.

Now, if one wanted to weaken the Democratic coalition, how might one drive a wedge between the different parts of the Democratic coalition?

Well, for example, let's posit the existence of a really popular politician who isn't a Democrat, but who is part of the Democratic coalition. Let's further assume that this politician is the most popular politician in the country right now.

If I wanted to weaken the Democratic coalition, I would want to drive a wedge between the Democratic party, and this very popular politician. Let's call this politician Sernie Banders, for the sake of this wildly fantastic thought experiment.

How might one do that?

You might, for example, compile lists of every criticism that Sernie Banders ever made about the Democratic party. You might, for example, go on and on and on (and on and on and on and on) about how Sernie Banders is not a member of the Democratic party, and imply he should be hated and not trusted because of that. As if it mattered.

You might, for example, find constructive criticism from that politician, advising the Democratic party not to be harlots for the Wall Street banks, and cast that as criticism (heaven forfend!) of the Democratic party, and emphasize that the Democratic party and this politician should never work together.

You might, for example, keep a nearly constant stream of chatter up with negative stories about Sernie Banders.

If you wanted to weaken the Democratic coalition, you would be afraid of the most popular politician in the country working together with the Democratic party to achieve common goals. You would be pants-peeingly, underwear-poopingly, afraid of that.

Fortunately, this is all just a thought experiment, and nothing like this is happening in the communities of the Democratic coalition. In those communities, we recognize allies and work together toward common goals. And we welcome the allegiance of allies from any and all other parties.

In the world of the thought experiment, though, the stuck pigs squeal the loudest.

177 replies, 7804 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 177 replies Author Time Post
Reply Sernie Banders: A Thought Experiment (Original post)
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 OP
treestar Apr 2017 #1
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #4
treestar Apr 2017 #5
nolabels Apr 2017 #25
treestar Apr 2017 #28
StubbornThings Apr 2017 #56
JudyM Apr 2017 #83
treestar Apr 2017 #108
lapucelle Apr 2017 #51
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #58
lapucelle Apr 2017 #65
lapucelle Apr 2017 #120
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #124
lapucelle Apr 2017 #159
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #166
George II Apr 2017 #74
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #77
George II Apr 2017 #78
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #82
George II Apr 2017 #87
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #92
stonecutter357 Apr 2017 #105
panader0 Apr 2017 #13
treestar Apr 2017 #16
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #20
treestar Apr 2017 #26
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #32
treestar Apr 2017 #139
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #147
KPN Apr 2017 #91
berksdem Apr 2017 #2
NurseJackie Apr 2017 #3
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #109
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #6
KittyWampus Apr 2017 #7
JustAnotherGen Apr 2017 #9
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #15
NastyRiffraff Apr 2017 #63
ehrnst Apr 2017 #71
BlueMTexpat Apr 2017 #76
stonecutter357 Apr 2017 #106
George II Apr 2017 #107
NurseJackie Apr 2017 #117
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #123
ehrnst Apr 2017 #133
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #134
uponit7771 Apr 2017 #119
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #125
romana Apr 2017 #146
yodermon Apr 2017 #8
KittyWampus Apr 2017 #11
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #18
yodermon Apr 2017 #35
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #10
KittyWampus Apr 2017 #14
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #17
lapucelle Apr 2017 #177
brush Apr 2017 #22
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #34
brush Apr 2017 #53
yodermon Apr 2017 #57
brush Apr 2017 #69
FSogol Apr 2017 #12
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #23
FSogol Apr 2017 #31
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #39
FSogol Apr 2017 #52
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #135
riderinthestorm Apr 2017 #19
kstewart33 Apr 2017 #21
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #24
kstewart33 Apr 2017 #61
Historic NY Apr 2017 #88
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #94
Historic NY Apr 2017 #102
kstewart33 Apr 2017 #142
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #148
ehrnst Apr 2017 #72
kydo Apr 2017 #27
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #41
kydo Apr 2017 #55
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #59
Skittles Apr 2017 #122
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #126
Skittles Apr 2017 #141
Exilednight Apr 2017 #29
LineLineReply ?
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #42
frazzled Apr 2017 #30
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #49
JusticeForAll Apr 2017 #110
Skidmore Apr 2017 #33
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #45
riderinthestorm Apr 2017 #36
Fresh_Start Apr 2017 #37
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #44
Fresh_Start Apr 2017 #64
ehrnst Apr 2017 #132
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #136
Fresh_Start Apr 2017 #150
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #154
Fresh_Start Apr 2017 #160
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #163
That Guy 888 Apr 2017 #144
Fresh_Start Apr 2017 #153
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #155
Fresh_Start Apr 2017 #161
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #162
That Guy 888 Apr 2017 #168
emulatorloo Apr 2017 #169
That Guy 888 Apr 2017 #171
emulatorloo Apr 2017 #172
That Guy 888 Apr 2017 #173
disillusioned73 Apr 2017 #38
Orrex Apr 2017 #40
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #43
tblue37 Apr 2017 #167
Progressive dog Apr 2017 #46
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #47
Progressive dog Apr 2017 #54
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #60
Iggo Apr 2017 #48
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #50
NastyRiffraff Apr 2017 #62
retrowire Apr 2017 #68
retrowire Apr 2017 #66
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #75
mopinko Apr 2017 #67
ehrnst Apr 2017 #70
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #79
ehrnst Apr 2017 #89
George II Apr 2017 #73
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #80
George II Apr 2017 #86
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #95
treestar Apr 2017 #111
ehrnst Apr 2017 #93
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #96
George II Apr 2017 #115
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #116
ehrnst Apr 2017 #130
BainsBane Apr 2017 #81
KittyWampus Apr 2017 #84
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #98
BainsBane Apr 2017 #121
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #90
ehrnst Apr 2017 #97
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #101
ehrnst Apr 2017 #129
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #137
BainsBane Apr 2017 #100
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #103
BainsBane Apr 2017 #127
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #170
BainsBane Apr 2017 #174
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #175
BainsBane Apr 2017 #176
treestar Apr 2017 #113
BainsBane Apr 2017 #140
beastie boy Apr 2017 #85
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #99
beastie boy Apr 2017 #114
Heartstrings Apr 2017 #104
Skittles Apr 2017 #112
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #118
Gary 50 Apr 2017 #128
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #138
CousinIT Apr 2017 #131
NCTraveler Apr 2017 #143
Gothmog Apr 2017 #145
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #149
SirBrockington Apr 2017 #151
SirBrockington Apr 2017 #152
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #156
Chevy Apr 2017 #164
Chevy Apr 2017 #157
Trumpocalypse Apr 2017 #158
ProfessorPlum Apr 2017 #165

Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:49 AM

1. Lately he does not seem to be working with us

but working against us and saying we are not good enough and need to be remade in his image.

And his very unfortunate run with our infrastructure caused the division. Should have just let it be O'Malley vs. Hillary. Unwittingly, Bernie is part of the disaster we have today.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:51 AM

4. Who are you talking about?

Because I'm talking about Sernie Banders, the most popular politician in my thought experiment.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:51 AM

5. How is the most popular?

Obama probably is.

Autocorrect made it so I could not type "Sernie."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:07 AM

25. Do you understand the word "my"?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nolabels (Reply #25)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:09 AM

28. what's the point of making him the most popular in your

thought experiment. If we are to assume he was the most popular, maybe he would have won the primary. And the election. That's the result of that thought experiment. Maybe you needed another name for him as you are obviously referencing Bernie, in spite of your initial switching.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:32 AM

56. Obama is a former politician.

 

Bernie is easily the most popular active politician.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to StubbornThings (Reply #56)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:38 PM

83. New poll out strongly supports this. 57% favorability. Pence is next most popular.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JudyM (Reply #83)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:11 PM

108. the next two after Bernie

are Pence and Orange Disaster.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:27 AM

51. Maybe they're talking about the guy who

doesn't know enough about Jon Ossoff's progressive bona fides to endorse him over a Republican opponent in an important special election, but who is solidly behind Tom Perriello who has an anti-choice and pro-NRA voting record.

He picked his battle. As of now, he won't be fighting a Republican in a special election for a Congressional seat. He'll be fighting another Democrat in a party primary for a gubernatorial nomination.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lapucelle (Reply #51)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:38 AM

58. It's very important that you hold Sernie Banders to a higher standard

than other politicians, and especially the DNC, which doesn't have a great overall record of endorsing Democratic candidates in fights they consider hopeless.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #58)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:55 AM

65. I think you need to re-examine what appears

to be a thought experiment with flaws in its experimental design. It assumes the truth of it's own conclusion by ignoring the alternative explanation that the person actively driving the wedge is responsible for the consequent.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #58)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:25 PM

120. What are you talking about?

The DNC doesn't endorse or not endorse. That's not one of its functions. (And the DNC is not a politician; it's an organization.) What's this apocryphal record you reference?

http://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.democrats.org/Downloads/DNC_Charter__Bylaws_9.17.15.pdf#page=1&zoom=160,-4,797

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lapucelle (Reply #120)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:33 PM

124. You are correct

A more precise word for what I meant is supporting, rather than endorsing. Thank you!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #124)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:07 PM

159. Can you name a single Democratic candidate

in a general election who the DNC didn't support?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lapucelle (Reply #159)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:21 PM

166. Not in the 2016 election (though I'm sure there were lots, there always are)

but just recently the support for that guy who almost upset the GOP in Kansas got very little support from the DNC.

And the similar stories of the Democratic machinery not helping out candidates in areas they think unwinnable is widely known.

It's one of the reasons that Dean's 50 state strategy was a change from what had come before.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:28 PM

74. Cute, but sadly you take DUers for fools in you "thought experiment".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #74)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:31 PM

77. Indeed I dont!

DU doesn't exist in my thought experiment.

And in the real world, DUers recognize valuable allies of the Democratic coalition

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #77)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:32 PM

78. You're just playing games so you can "deny" the obvious. Most of us aren't buying it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #78)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:36 PM

82. No sir, it is you who are playing games

I'm running thought experiments. Try to keep up.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #82)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:39 PM

87. Oh, I'm keeping up, probably more than you either wanted or expected anyone to do so.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #87)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:41 PM

92. !! I welcome your keeping up.

I feed on it

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #87)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:01 PM

105. +1000

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:58 AM

13. Would you please point out where he said

'we are not good enough and need to be remade in his image".
Oh wait, he never said that. Alternative facts.
Face it, the Democratic party has lost Senate seats, House seats, Governors, etc. during the disaster of Wasserman-Shultz. Bernie is only stating the obvious.
"If the Democratic party is going to succeed, and I want it to succeed, it need to open the door to Independents." Bernie quote. The Independents are now in the majority.
Disrespect the most prominent Independent at the risk of our party.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to panader0 (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:00 AM

16. He's always talking about what we should do

and how we need to change. Both parties try for the Independent votes. Why open the door to them? Some of them are right wingers, at least half, most likely.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:03 AM

20. holy god, you're right, that can't be allowed to stand

talking about what we should do and how we need to change? why, no one ever does that to the Democratic party.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #20)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:08 AM

26. constantly. Do you see the Republicans do that to themselves?

No. That's why they win. Quit the introspection and perfectionism and go out and win. If the Democratic party is not perfect for Bernie, he could have not run in it. And his followers claims he was cheated, etc., are wishful thinking. Same that bernie is "most popular" as he had a bit of trouble getting enough voters to win.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #26)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:12 AM

32. uh, yes, actually I see that allof the time

I see Republicans talking about how the Democrats need to change and what to do.

I see Democrats talking about how the Republicans need to change and what to do.

I see centrists talking about what the "far left" needs to do and how to change.

I see fundamentalists talking about what feminists need to do and how to change.

It's the great American pastime!

It's also called politics.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #32)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 02:13 PM

139. Republicans don't do it to themselves

Donald of Orange is kind of their equivalent. He doesn't put down the Republican party and claim it should change. You don't hear their factions complain that they aren't getting enough attention from the RNC - they just get in there and spread the disinformation and win.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #139)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:42 PM

147. That's a silly claim

Have you ever been to a Republican chat site? There are factions of Republicans, and they all tell each other what to do and how to change. It's human nature.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:41 PM

91. Well, are you good enough?

Think about that a moment -- not as criticism but from the standpoint of do you share similar views and political priorities/positions? If so, you are good enough -- so why sweat it? If not, then Bernie has a point and I stand with him as Democrat. We need to get back to traditional democratic party principles. The party's economic positions ushered in during the DLC hay-day have not worked -- at least they don't seem to have regarding where the Party stands in terms of legislators and executive officers nationwide, or from the standpoint of young people in America today.

Some of us have done really well financially over the past 30 years -- I've done well and have no complaints. But we've left a lot of people behind.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:50 AM

2. LOL.... I love this. Cue the Bernie-haters.... 3-2-...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:50 AM

3. Oh, brother.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NurseJackie (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:13 PM

109. Oh, sister!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:52 AM

6. Other things you might theoretically do if you wanted to weaken the Democratic coalition

include lying about Sernie Banders, and saying that he thinks Trump voters are better than Clinton voters.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:53 AM

7. There are no "negative stories about Bernie Sanders". There are threads about his actual rhetoric.

 

The Democratic party gave him the position heading Democratic party outreach. It's a national platform.

The Democratic party had to do that because he can be used as a wedge by outside forces (Republicans/Russians/Greens).

So we are are stuck with him. And that would be fine because he has fans and apparently wants to go around talking to groups and be on tv interviews.

But please stop gas lighting us.

We are addressing Sanders' actual rhetoric. I personally more or less kept my mouth shut until fairly recently.

But Sanders just keeps it up.

He isn't just an Independent Senator.

HE IS HEAD OF DEMOCRATIC PARTY OUTREACH.

And he can't control his own rhetoric so that it doesn't negatively reflect on the Democratic party.

That is frustrating.

I am not a troll, a bot, or bashing Sanders.

I JUST WANT HIM TO STOP USING NEGATIVE RHETORIC WHEN SPEAKING ABOUT THE PARTY HE HEADS OUTREACH FOR.

That is entirely reasonable

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:56 AM

9. Plus 10000000

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:59 AM

15. who is this Bernie Sanders you speak of?

In the theoretical universe, the head of the DNC, who might know more about what is good for the Democratic coalition than some people who post on chat groups, thinks that working with most popular politician Sernie Banders is a really excellent way to strengthen the coalition. And I think that's a reasonable and constructive strategy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:48 AM

63. Yes to this!

I JUST WANT HIM TO STOP USING NEGATIVE RHETORIC WHEN SPEAKING ABOUT THE PARTY HE HEADS OUTREACH FOR.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:24 PM

71. +1000 (nt)

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:30 PM

76. This.

In spades!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:03 PM

106. +1000

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:07 PM

107. The childish "Sernie Banders" dodge notwithstanding, all one need do is watch this:

beginning about 30 seconds into the video, "Sernie Banders" in his own words:

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #107)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:24 PM

117. So Bernie says that the Democratic party "is gonna have to open its doors to Independents". WTFDTM??

When has the Democratic Party ever CLOSED its doors to anyone who wanted to join? If the (so-called) Independents want to join the party, nobody is stopping them. When has the Democratic Party ever CLOSED its doors to working people and young people?


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NurseJackie (Reply #117)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:32 PM

123. I think he may mean,

If I take the liberty to try to interpret his words, that Democrats have to loudly and smartly address the economic concerns that so many people have. These may include people who are not complete social liberals, unfortunately for them, but who understand at their core that the system is screwing them economically.

You, and i, and the GOP and the Democratic politicians all know who is doing the screwing (hint: rich feudalists and fascists ), but the GOP just yells about brown people, and the Democrats largely offer no narrative.

I want those people, who may not feel at home in the Democratic party in its entirety, to vote as part of the Democratic coalition, because it is in their best interests and the best interests of all of us.

And that is the end of my attempted Sanders -channeling.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #123)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:54 PM

133. That is a liberty. (nt)

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ehrnst (Reply #133)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:56 PM

134. And I took it

Gosh darn it

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:25 PM

119. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to uponit7771 (Reply #119)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:39 PM

125. +2

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:18 PM

146. x1000

Respect from Sanders, in the form of refraining from saying negative things about the party while promoting his own ideas, is not asking for too much here. The fact that he can't seem to extend some courtesy and respect to the party helping him further his own agenda does not reflect well on him.

I also deeply worry that the party is taking its base for granted by capitulating to Sanders and white working class voters. There has to be a better balance, and it has to start with Sanders at this point. He was the loser in the primary--he has to earn my support and vote, not demand it while insulting me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:55 AM

8. Yep. All you need to know is in these 2 charts right here:




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to yodermon (Reply #8)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:58 AM

11. Who held the House against the Republicans health care bill? Sanders or Pelosi?

 

Who held the caucus together?

That would be Pelosi. And when Sanders was on tv talking about the health care bill he threw in a totally gratuitous insult by calling the Democrats "feeble". Pelosi's handling of that health care bill was MASTERFUL AND STRONG AND NOT FEEBLE>

So your polls address absolutely nothing of substance.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:02 AM

18. Indeed minority leader Pelosi is a very effective and valued member of the Democratic

coalition. And there are others!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:14 AM

35. The DNC and Perez are parading Bernie around the country. Take a look at those charts again

and the then take it up with *them*. It's "The DNC's unity tour", remember?

DNC is trying to have their Berniebro cake and eat it too. We'll see how/if it works out.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:57 AM

10. Something else one would do, if one theoretically wanted to drive a wedge between

members of the Democratic coalition, is say that people who support working with popular members of that coalition consider those members to be "gods" or "godlike", if they enjoy working with them. That kind of strawmanning would be something someone would do if they wanted to weaken the Democratic coalition.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:59 AM

14. Your OP and repeated attempts to insinuate that those of us who object to Sanders' rhetoric

 

as he serves as head of Democratic party outreach are "driving a wedge" is gas lighting. It's insulting.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #14)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:01 AM

17. You keep using that term

I don't think it means what you think it means.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 09:03 PM

177. Wow, gaslighting on a meta level.

"Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual."

She's using the term correctly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:03 AM

22. Head of outreach for the party you'd think would stop with saying negative things about the party

Not rocket science.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brush (Reply #22)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:14 AM

34. and yet the head of the party thinks he's an excellent person for that position

who knows more about strengthening the democratic coalition, do you suppose. You, or the head of the DNC?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #34)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:28 AM

53. Seemed like a good idea at the time but as in life, some hires work out, others don't.

Head of outreach for the party should not keep saying negative things about the party.

Positive statements you'd think would flow from the head of outreach about Jon Ossoff instead of the head of outreach saying he doesn't know if Ossoff is a progressive.

Again, not rocket science.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brush (Reply #22)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:38 AM

57. He is subtweeting to those alt-lefties and Obama voters who voted for trump

"I do not consider myself a Democrat" but here I am with the Democrats.
And he's doing so *with* approval of DNC and Perez. Hell it's a "DNC UNITY tour"!!!
It's almost like he's trying to form a coalition, and revive the "50 -state strategy".

Oh wait, that looks like "outreach". sorry.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to yodermon (Reply #57)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:15 PM

69. Sounds good but ditch the negativity about the party. It cancels out the good so you get no where.

Last edited Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:51 PM - Edit history (1)

The word "oxymoron" comes to mind.

Outreaching to alt-lefties and O voters who voted for trump while on the other hand dissing the party base (women) by backing a pro-lifer and sowing doubt as to Jon Ossoff's progressive bona fides. Ossoff is backed by John Lewis, btw, a Dem and African American icon.

As I said, you get no where by backing an anti-abortion mayoral candidate in Nebraska while not outreaching to a strong Dem candidate in a red-ass district in Georgia.

WTF?

Why is Sanders always in the middle of these contradictions, especially now when as head of outreach staying positive about the party and its candidates should be paramount.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:58 AM

12. WOOT, My thought experiment is to Feep Kighting the primaries!

* ∞

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FSogol (Reply #12)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:05 AM

23. Just wondering what people would do if they wanted to

strengthen the Democratic coalition

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #23)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:11 AM

31. Posting on DU is not activism. I strengthen the Democratic coalition by helping out in local

politics. Shouting down Democrats and the DNC as part of a Sanders personality cult isn't helping. Is Sanders the left's version of Sun Myung Moon? Should we expect the Bern-Unification Church to appear?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FSogol (Reply #31)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:16 AM

39. Fortunately no one is strawmanning the idea

that Sernie Banders is a god or godlike. Because that would not help the theoretical Democratic coaltion of my thought experiment.

Also, I'm not sure who is shouting down Democrats. Certainly not anyone in my post.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #39)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:28 AM

52. You're not sure who is shouting down Democrats? Here you go:

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FSogol (Reply #52)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:59 PM

135. What on earth us in that article that you object to?

There was a lot of editorializing by the writer, but really, pull a Sanders quote from that article that is anything at all objectionable.

You've got nothing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:03 AM

19. K&R! nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:03 AM

21. Has Bernie endorsed Ossoff?

Well, if we want to strengthen the Democratic party, that would be a good thing to do. But Bernie has not. His response is that he doesn't know if Ossoff is a progressive. So no fundraising and no campaigning for Ossoff.

But Bernie has endorsed Omaha mayoral candidate and former state senator Heath Mello, whom Sanders will campaign with Thursday. That's today.

Is Mello a progressive? Don't think so. For starters, let's consider, from an article in The Washington Post:

Mello in 2009 sponsored a bill that would require a woman to look at ultrasound images of her fetus before undergoing an abortion (he still opposes abortion rights).
Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/20/bernie-sanderss-strange-behavior/?utm_term=.f3ae296f5105

The signs are that Bernie is a difficult guy to work with. If he wouldn't endorse Ossoff, he could have kept quiet. But off, he goes questioning Ossoff's credentials. Like that's something Ossoff needs a few days before the election.

But silence is something a Democrat would do. And that's the problem with Bernie. He's not only not a Democrat, he's willing to damage the party if he's ticked about something. Which is what Bernie does. A lot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kstewart33 (Reply #21)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:06 AM

24. I see that you are very interested in strengthening the Democratic coalition

So am I. We have similar goals.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #24)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:45 AM

61. We do.

Our difference is that IMHO, Bernie is not the guy to do it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kstewart33 (Reply #61)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:40 PM

88. Exactly he is interested in the revolution he's beeen talking about for decades......

in other words his own agenda. The GOP is already using this...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Historic NY (Reply #88)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:43 PM

94. It is strange when people are interested in their own agendas, isn't it?

And it happens so rarely.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #94)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:56 PM

102. All under the guise he's helping Democrats he isn't...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #94)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 02:37 PM

142. Oh now, don't be snarky.

The dilemma with Bernie is that he is an ideologue, someone so entrenched in his belief that his ways are the only ways, that he's difficult to work with.

Consider Bernie's record in Congress. His reputation is someone who is rather difficult to work with. Because he's so convinced that he's right all of the time. Best example that I can think of is his opposition to Amber Alert legislation because of some technicality. Compromise comes very rarely.

Uniting the party including Bernie supporters is going to require some compromising. On both sides. But Bernie just isn't amenable to doing that. He's also prickly. I think he holds grudges far too long. He's carries a whole lot of them in his pocket against Hillary. And that doesn't help him or anyone else, except the Repubs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kstewart33 (Reply #142)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 05:02 PM

148. So he has things that he actually believes in and is cranky

What a monster.

No wonder people are telling lies about him.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #24)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:25 PM

72. I wish that was true of all that claim that they alone have the corner on "progressive ideas" (nt)

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:09 AM

27. ok so now sernie banders is on my trash list. BTW not a hater just sick of reading about him

Sick of the purists.

Sick of the haters.

Sick of seeing someone who does not want to be a dem talked about so often on a dem message board.

Sick of the bickering.

Totally sick of all the threads.

Its distracting from the real issues.

It distracts us from the real enemy.

Sanders is not the enemy.

But he is not our answer either.

The enemy is Orange man and his russian street gang.

Arguing about Sanders doesn't stop the orange man from destroying the world. It just makes it easier for it to do so.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kydo (Reply #27)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:17 AM

41. "Banders is not the enemy."

See? You and I agree.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #41)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:29 AM

55. I never said we didn't agree

I said I was sick of hearing about him. Need a break from him for a while.

You know like when you put a song you like on repeat and after a few hours of listening to the same song you get tired of it and turn it off. It doesn't mean you hate and despise that song forever now. No, as the song plays later on the radio and you sing and dance along with it, like it was one of your most favorite song of all time. Forgetting you were so sick of the song just that morning.

That's where I am with Bernie.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kydo (Reply #55)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:42 AM

59. I think that is indeed one of the intended consequences

of the patterns of postings.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kydo (Reply #27)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:29 PM

122. I have trash-listed him too, for the same reasons

I don't hate the man, but I too know he is NOT the answer

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skittles (Reply #122)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:40 PM

126. Fortunately, no one is implying he is the answer

Sernie Bandera is just a welcome addition to the Democratic coalition.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #126)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 02:16 PM

141. LOLOL

ALRIGHTY THEN

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:10 AM

29. You start from a false premise.

The Democratic coalition is made up of more than just Democrats.

After that, the rest of your experiment gives you a false positive.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Exilednight (Reply #29)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:18 AM

42. ?

sorry, what is the false premise?

I know you are not going to say that the Democratic coalition consists _only_ of the Democratic party politicians and members. Because that way of thinking would shrink and weaken the Democratic coalition. I know that isn't what you are interested in.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:11 AM

30. And if you want to weaken the coalition by alienating women and minorities ...

You will continue this charade of attempted appeasement of anti-establishment, white male voters who threw their lot in with Trump and somehow are seen to be reasonable enough to join the "Democratic coalition" (of mainly women and minorities, who they think have stolen everything from them).

Not buying your thought experiment. You can't just think in one direction.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to frazzled (Reply #30)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:26 AM

49. wow, that is a ton of projection

Sernie Banders is, in fact, a transgender mixed race homosexual, who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks.

I don't know why someone would try to pit members of the Democratic coalition, like men and women, and white people and people of color, against each other. That wouldn't strengthen the Democratic coalition!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #49)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:17 PM

110. I heart Sernie!

erm...hypothetically that is.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:13 AM

33. Trashcan materil. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skidmore (Reply #33)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:21 AM

45. Material

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:14 AM

36. Thanks for this! K&R! nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:15 AM

37. Another even more material method to destroy the democratic coalition would be

to have a popular politician who is supposed to be working with the Democratic party to achieve common goals repeatedly say severely negative things about the Democratic party.

He could also strongly support his own acolytes and ignore other Democrats who are also working to achieve common goals.

My I also point out that a leader in the democratic coalition should be held to a far higher standard then average slubs.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #37)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:21 AM

44. yes. As I said in my thought experiment

people who want to weaken the Democratic coalition would emphasize only the negative things that imaginary politician Sernie Banders says, and not the areas of common interest and policy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #44)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:53 AM

64. You fail to see that Sernie Banders constant negative statements about the Democrats

is by itself a method to weaken the Democratic coalition...and less excusable since as a leader he should be held to a higher standard than its just Sernie being Sernie.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #37)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:54 PM

132. But THATS NOT PART OF THE THOUGHT EXPERIMENT!!!!

 

FLAG!!! 10 YARD PENALTY!!

You're not following the REWELS!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #37)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 02:01 PM

136. "repeatedly say severely negative things about the Democratic party"

Again, this repeatedly asserted here, and never demonstrated.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #136)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:41 PM

150. heres one of Sernie Banders love notes

Sen. Bernie Sanders was asked what he thinks the party stands for. “You’re asking a good question, and I can’t give you a definitive answer. Certainly there are some people in the Democratic Party who want to maintain the status quo. They would rather go down with the Titanic so long as they have first-class seats,” Sanders said.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #150)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:59 PM

154. Wow. That's nothing

Is that really what has you in such a twist about this? Because it is both boilerplate Sanders and very mild criticism. And both obviously true and important.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #154)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:09 PM

160. it's not true

and it's foolish, selfish and counterproductive




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #160)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:14 PM

163. It's not true that some in the party would rather maintain the status quo?

Sorry, now you are just arguing nonsense.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #37)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:35 PM

144. Would that include saying ideas of more liberal members of your coalition are "fucking retarded"?

 

There didn't seem to be any repercussion for that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to That Guy 888 (Reply #144)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:54 PM

153. in the context, he wasn't wrong

called progressives “fucking retarded” for contemplating primary challenges against conservative Democrats.


Even a bad democrat is better than a good republican.
And primarying an incumbent who probably has 80% chance of holding his seat in order to have a 20% chance of installing a progressive in the community, makes no sense.

Let me know when he runs for national office if it doesn't have reprecussions.





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #153)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:01 PM

155. Wait a minute though

Some people are trashing Sanders for supporting conservative Democrats because they are not ideologically pure.

Which side of that issue do you come down on?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #155)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:11 PM

161. I haven't criticized Sanders for supporting Democrats

I have criticized him for not supporting democrats and lobbing bombs at the party

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #161)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:12 PM

162. ah, but you see, there are some who argue that he is supporting the wrong kinds of Democrats

people better get on the same page as to why Sanders is to be marginalized.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #153)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:27 PM

168. Hmm... Ask someone who has mentally challanged relatives. I was alerted for quoting him once.

 

But to the argument he made, that assumes that a progressive Democrat couldn't win. It's conventional inside-the-beltway thinking, the kind of thinking that surrenders control of how an issue is discussed to Frank Lutz and the GOP.

Let me know when he runs for national office if it doesn't have reprecussions.


There weren't any repercussions in the Obama White House. Not like when the Republicans demanded the removal of people from office. It seems like establishment Democratic politicians are more dismissive of concerns on the left, and much more responsive to concerns from Republicans and conservatives.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to That Guy 888 (Reply #168)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:49 PM

169. That wasn't the context. It was addressed to a group who wanted to run a neg ad about a Senator

who was being courted by Obama to vote for the ACA.

The group was in favor of ACA, so yeah it would be counterproductive to run an ad against him at that time.

He was talking about the ad.

Group ran a blog that was great, Marci Wheeler was one of the writers.

Does not excuse the words he used. They were deplorable. I think I remember he apologized.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to emulatorloo (Reply #169)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:19 PM

171. He did the non-apology apology. When Republicans do it...

 

I paraphrase it as: "I'm sorry if my straight-talking offended the fee-fees of you lil' snowflakes." He didn't apologize for what he said.

As far as the context:
The friction was laid bare in August when Mr. Emanuel showed up at a
weekly strategy session featuring liberal groups and White House aides.
Some attendees said they were planning to air ads attacking
conservative Democrats who were balking at Mr. Obama's health-care
overhaul.


"F-ing retarded," Mr. Emanuel scolded the group, according to
several participants. He warned them not to alienate lawmakers whose
votes would be needed on health care and other top legislative items.

The antipathy reflects deep dissatisfaction on the Democratic left
with Mr. Obama's first year in office, and represents a fracturing of
the relationship between the president and the political base that
mobilized to elect him. A little more than one year ago, Mr. Obama's
victory led some to predict an era of Democratic dominance.


https://www.commondreams.org/news/2010/01/26/chief-staff-draws-fire-left-obama-falters

-Emphasis is mine.

The Democratic Leadership seems much more worried about offending conservatives than accomplishing meaningful change. Unlike Trump, I know that Healthcare agreements are hard to accomplish. However, giving up positions and bargaining chips before you get started seems stupid or spineless at best, corrupt and conniving at worst. If I loved the Heritage Foundation, I'd vote for Republicans.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to That Guy 888 (Reply #171)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:25 PM

172. Thanks for finding that. I wanted to correct Fresh Start's misremembering the context.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to emulatorloo (Reply #172)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:30 PM

173. No, the ads Rahm hated were against conservative Democrats not backing the Affordable Care Act. n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:15 AM

38. This is good stuff..

 

I wonder what that experiment would look like...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:17 AM

40. Your spoonerism got past my Trash filter

Damn you!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Orrex (Reply #40)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:19 AM

43. LOL. sorry

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Orrex (Reply #40)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:24 PM

167. You could trash "ernie" and "anders" instead. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:21 AM

46. And so it goes

My thought experiment would not be about giving control of the party to part time Democrats.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Progressive dog (Reply #46)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:23 AM

47. fortunately that is not what is on the table

but it's good to be really fearful of it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #47)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:29 AM

54. Not fearful, just concerned

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Progressive dog (Reply #54)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:42 AM

60. Concern noted, Progressive dog!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:25 AM

48. Okay, that's enough.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Iggo (Reply #48)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:26 AM

50. thanks for your concern!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:46 AM

62. Oh gods, where to begin?

How about here?

If you wanted to weaken the Democratic coalition, you would be afraid of the most popular politician in the country working together with the Democratic party to achieve common goals. You would be pants-peeingly, underwear-poopingly, afraid of that.
(emphasis mine)


Where in the world do you get that Sanders is the "most popular politician in the country"? Sources? Links? Anything?

And what's with the obsession with the supposed "fear" of Sanders? Nobody is afraid of him; lots of us don't like him.

Good lord.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NastyRiffraff (Reply #62)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:03 PM

68. There was an article on the front page

About how Bernie was the most popular politician while McConnell was the least the other day.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:59 AM

66. Fucking THANK YOU nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to retrowire (Reply #66)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:29 PM

75. :)

Very welcome

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:01 PM

67. sernie banders is welcome in the coalition.

but imho, his appointment is pure pandering.
he is more than welcome, but i dont see how he gets a leadership position.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:23 PM

70. When one insists on his way or the highway, how does that 'strengthen' a coalition? (nt)

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ehrnst (Reply #70)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:33 PM

79. Flag on the field. Strawmanning. 10 yards.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #79)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:40 PM

89. Really? A post about how one builds a coalition by including Sernie Banders

 

if I'm not mistaken....

I guess it's truly an alternate universe....

I call your flag, and raise you a hostile post.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:27 PM

73. There's a major flaw in your hypothesis, he is NOT "the most popular politician in the country"!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #73)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:35 PM

80. That was one of the given propositions

That Sernie Banders is the most popular politician in the thought experiment.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #80)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:38 PM

86. Well, since you're now pointing out that your premise is based on fiction, no sense going on...

.....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #86)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:44 PM

95. Indeed. I encourage you to quit and pursue other interests

That more suit your style.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #86)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:19 PM

111. If he were that, he would be President

and the rest of the thought experiment would be moot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #80)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:43 PM

93. So this thought experiment is based in fiction.

 

Can Prince still be alive??

Can we eliminate mosquitos?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ehrnst (Reply #93)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:45 PM

96. Yes. And no, sadly

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #96)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:22 PM

115. Which is it? You seem to be losing track of your explanations of your own "thought experiment" sadly

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #115)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:24 PM

116. They are ordered respectively. Yes to Prince and no to mosquitoes

Sadly. They are needed for the virtual frogs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #96)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:53 PM

130. Fiction in that the hero is the "most popular" and all. (nt)

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:35 PM

81. Okay, so is that why Bernie keeps putting down the Democratic Party?

To weaken it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #81)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:38 PM

84. No no, according to the OP... pointing out that Bernie is constantly belittling the Democratic party

 

is weakening.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #84)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:48 PM

98. Proving your assertion that he is doing that

Rather than just stating it as a fact, would be an enormous help. And remember, it has to be constantly. That means if I find any quotes of Sanders praising Democrats or the Democratic party, you have to admit you are lying about him. Shall we play Find The Quote?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #84)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:26 PM

121. Of course

because citizens are the bane of democracy. Only when we are silenced can order be restored.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #81)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:40 PM

90. Are you asking about real life politician senator Sanders?

In his case, your question begs the question (and note I'm actually using that phrase correctly for once! ) DOES Sanders really keep putting down the Democratic party? Or do people here just keep saying that he does, and cherry picking his comments and not seeing the bigger overall picture, which includes Sanders pushing his thumbs into both of Trump's eyes and pushing, hard?

It is something to ruminate on, certainly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to ehrnst (Reply #97)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:55 PM

101. So I read the CNN story.

What is the problem, exactly? Are those very mild statements really what you are getting so worked up about?

There's no there there, and you keep proving it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #101)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:52 PM

129. I guess if you are angry at the entity being talked about

 

such statements might seem mild. Too mild.

And the other link?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ehrnst (Reply #129)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 02:07 PM

137. What the hell

There's nothing controversial in the other link either.

Your position is made of smoke and mirrors.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #90)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:54 PM

100. Yes, and I provided plenty of evidence of that yesterday

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8951029
There is the evidence that you have ignored. How do you think NSF would respond if you ignored evidence in science as you do for politics?

And I find it fascinating that you think unity hinges on silencing citizens who post on a message board. I understand your goal is to enforce absolute deference toward Bernie. It's not going to happen. This is just one reason why: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8953867

So quit pretending the concern is "unity." It's utterly transparent.

You are just going to have to face that fact that people are going to continue to think independently, and that not everyone subsumes their entire political consciousness around one man's career. I will continue to place citizens before the political elite, regardless of how "popular" they are.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #100)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:58 PM

103. You seem to keep pounding on a wedge

I hope that works out for you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #103)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:43 PM

127. What are you doing?

You are insisting that being a Democrat REQUIRES accepting without question Bernie and everything Bernie says. First you say there isn't evidence that he has criticized Democrats. Then you claim that my providing it is a "wedge." Refuting what you believe is a "wedge." Evidence is a "wedge" because it challenges what you FEEL.

If you want to find unity, focus on issues rather than enforcing fealty toward Bernie. Because seriously, there is something seriously wrong when the only thing people care about is one man. No one is stopping you from admiring him. What I'm saying is quit trying to insist everyone revere him and focus on something that actually matters, like some of the issues that you care about.

There is something else here. This notion that citizens must remain silent in the face of a man deemed too great to be criticized is not in keeping with democracy. If you and others are going to continue to insist that we must do so, you will not find common cause with anyone who values anything apart from great men. Perhaps that's how you prefer it. Perhaps you want a more authoritarian government, where the rule of men replaces the rule of laws. We are quickly heading in that direction with Trump, and it's disconcerting to see tendencies to place a great man above citizens on the other side of the political spectrum. If you focused on some of the issues that Bernie champions rather than the man himself, you could begin to build the unity you claim to care about. That we see so little discussion of those issues speaks volumes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #127)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:18 PM

170. "You are insisting that being a Democrat REQUIRES accepting without question Bernie"

I certainly am not. But I don't think that lying about him and his political goals are good activities for anyone to engage in, Democrat or not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #170)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:42 PM

174. What lies?

And given your repeated refusal to consider any evidence, why should I trust your pronouncements of what constitute lies or truth?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #174)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:45 PM

175. Well, there was the poster on the board recently that claimed Sanders had said

Trump voters were better than people who had backed Clinton.

That was a total lie, for example. When I asked them to show me where Sanders had said that, they produced an article that said nothing of the sort.

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #175)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:57 PM

176. No, it's a difference in interpretation

It's not a lie. He has repeatedly talked about how the Democratic Party owes white male Trump voters this and that. He has made them a priority. He has repeatedly insisted Trump voters weren't motivated by race, despite polling data that shows otherwise. Meanwhile, he has AGAIN endorsed a pro-life candidate. He has made his priorities clear through his statements and his actions, and they don't extent to me or the rest of the Democratic base, which is comprised largely of people of color and single women.

Calling people who make those points liars is exactly the sort of vitriol that makes your call for coming together in the other thread unbelievable.

The kind of thing you're talking about is your anger at being exposed to people who aren't like you, who because of race, gender, or class are aware of the kind of language politicians use to dismiss their rights and their interests. Many black voters have observed it. Many Latinos have observed it, and so have I. Not everyone is born white, male and middle-class. They experience the world differently form you. Those experiences are not lies. Moreover, I don't believe there is anything accidental about Sanders' use of those tropes. He has very clear political priorities, and they do not include me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #81)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:19 PM

113. If he is the most popular politician in the country

and he puts down the Democrats, that will have a very good effect. Due to his popularity, more people will disdain the Democrats.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #113)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 02:14 PM

140. Exactly

and we are told popularity means he must be right. By that extension, the Kardashians and Biebers of this world also have the answers. I disagree. I have never been one to concern myself with popularity. I didn't do so in high school. I sure as hell am not going to start now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:38 PM

85. I am so glad that your hypothetical Sernie Banders so doesn't drive wedges between various Democrats

and he so doesn't pick and choose which members of the Democratic coalition deserve the support of the most popular politician in the country and which don't!

This would, indeed, keep the Democratic coalition in your hypothetical scenario very strong!

Unfortunately, this is just a thought experiment...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to beastie boy (Reply #85)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:53 PM

99. All of the members of the Democratic coalition,

Including Sernie Banders, and every member of the Democratic party leadership, pick and choose which races and candidates they will shower their support and personal time on. It may vary with other constraints of their schedule, strategy, and even their personal preference.

I don't know why Sernie Banders' behavior should be judged differently from the other, far more numerous, members of the Democratic coalition.

In the thought experiment.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #99)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:22 PM

114. Got it. Sernie's capricious choices on who to support and who to bash in the coalition are a boon...

... for it, but should any other member of the coalition express resentment of Sernie's capricious choices, it's bad for the coalition. Because those who, in your hypothetical scenario, choose to not support Sernie, do the same thing Sernie does. This completes the circle of your argument.

Boy, am I glad we are talking hypotheticals here!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 12:59 PM

104. As usual...from my short term existence on du

Coming together to defeat the ultimate enemy is looking highly unlikely.

We should be welcoming any support from anyone for our resistance...but nooooo!

Just keep railing about things said....meanwhile our chances of bringing the repubs to their knees diminishes.

Focus people, on the ultimate target! And it's not Sernie...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:19 PM

112. it's pretty obvious that is what is happening

but it's getting very tiresome, long posts from KNOWN DUers telling everyone to goose-step

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skittles (Reply #112)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:25 PM

118. Yes, it is obvious. And tiresome.

And clearly meant to divide us.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:48 PM

128. Thank you Professorplum for this thread.

I've been reading several threads about Bernie here on DU recently and something which never comes up is the origin of this intense Bernie hatred. There's the silly "he's not really a Democrat" criticism, the equally ridiculous "he keeps saying unkind things about the party" and my favorite "he's an egomaniac and everything is always about Bernie, Bernie Bernie", when in fact he never mentions himself and is always laser focused on his message. So, as a leading force for progressives why is he hated here on a website for liberals? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gary 50 (Reply #128)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 02:09 PM

138. I have noted that too

All three criticisms are either without merit or negligible.

Who would want Democrats to hate a popular progressive? It is a question to be pondeted.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 01:53 PM

131. Exactly this.

I wonder if/how many on DU are here for that purpose. This was one of the biggest tactics Russia used against Dems during 2016 election ie: cause division and infighting amongst Dem coalitions - Sanders and Clinton. Are they still at it?

Both Hillary and Bernie did/would do stuff I disagree with. As for him slamming her in the primary - IT WAS A PRIMARY. The different candidates are SUPPOSED to fight and distinguish themselves from one another. Pfft.

I'm not interested in purity tests, re-fighting whatever happened in 2016 primaries. We don't have TIME FOR THAT and we CANNOT AFFORD IT.

BUILDING A COALITION is what Perez and Sanders are trying to do and it's the right thing to do. Is it perfect? NO.

WHAT is in this life? NOTHING.

I wish people would stop letting their idea of PERFECT destroy a coalition of what's RIGHT and BENEFICIAL to the party going forward. EYES ON THE BIG PICTURE, please.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 02:49 PM

143. Kick

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:09 PM

145. Why will Sanders not help a Democrat in Georgia


?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fnews%2Fthe-fix%2Fwp%2F2017%2F04%2F20%2Fbernie-sanderss-strange-behavior%2F



?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fnews%2Fthe-fix%2Fwp%2F2017%2F04%2F20%2Fbernie-sanderss-strange-behavior%2F

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gothmog (Reply #145)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 05:11 PM

149. Even that guy doesn't know what Sanders strategy should be

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:45 PM

151. I hope the mods go

Back to after the primaries ended and those who weren't
a part of furthering the Democratic Party were allowed to go to JPR or other places voluntarily or not. Why keep bringing this stuff here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:53 PM

152. Another unity thread

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SirBrockington (Reply #152)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:02 PM

156. I say, let's have some f*ing unity then

that would be great.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #156)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:18 PM

164. Yeah my ex once said that while she was still kicking me

 

in the walnuts and telling me I'm weak and useless. It worked out well.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:04 PM

157. Thought experiment: A member since 2001

 

attacking Democrats while defending an Independent on an Democratic site. Irony or bad comedy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chevy (Reply #157)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:06 PM

158. Both nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chevy (Reply #157)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:18 PM

165. #notalldemocrats

I am one, after all.

what's a though experiment.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread