General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI believe that Russian trolls are STILL TROLLING
Left-leaning and progressive forums like this one. Would you agree?
The trolls don't quit trolling! Even NOW the trolls are working to faction us progressives and Dems by continuing to introduce provocative threads and subject matter.
BEWARE! The TROLLS are still working to pull the strings - DON'T LET THEM PULL YOUR STRING!
cadmium
(1,526 posts)AJT
(5,240 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)As if we are not all Democrats.
These are Republican trolls, working on the Republican agenda, even if the Rs outsource their trolls to other countries to get more troll per buck with their Russian mob laundered money.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)We won GA06 by a hefty margin over any other candidate, and suddenly DU erupts into idiocy.
Useless in FL
(329 posts)I cringe every time I see a post that looks like this...
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)In the wake of a spectacular result in GA-06 - a huge margin over any other candidate - a stupid food fight breaks out at DU.
That's not normal. It just isn't.
I kept asking why now? It was just weird.
Never got an answer and now I'm just tuning them out. We need to stay focused on the real issues.
Raster
(20,998 posts)...much superfluous shit as possible to confound and confuse. If they get us chasing OUR tails, we won't be chasing theirs!
Sculpin Beauregard
(1,046 posts)Siwsan
(26,248 posts)The first and last names were very Anglo but his profile photo showed him in front of a media back drop that was all in Cyrillic script.
Call me suspicious but I didn't accept the request.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)Turn him and make him one of ours!
Siwsan
(26,248 posts)TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)Speak English then he isn't a TROLL.
Siwsan
(26,248 posts)Of course non-English speakers can be trolls! I am a member of a progressive Facebook group and we had quite a spate of very vile posts from people whose 'profiles' were brand new and/or pretty much blank. The one thing they had in common was the Cyrillic script on their pages. All they did was post offensive photos and memes from the same, already discredited source. I wish I could remember the name but I blocked each and every one of these trolls.
My definition of a troll is anyone who goes around posting on an opposing political or social group's page with the primary goal of being a disruptive and argumentative asshole. I don't care which side of the political spectrum they fall on, it's just childish. In this particular group, we've all pretty much agreed to stop arguing with them, and just hit the block option.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)well enough to pass themselves off as RWNJs or overly-concerned progressives that are still pissed off that Sen Sanders was somehow screwed over in the Dem primaries...
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)
ymetca This message was self-deleted by its author.
William769
(55,142 posts)How can no one see it?
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)Like most here on this board,we can see this as fact. Like many have stated,the GA-6 was sure a tell. Noticed a increase in boldness of their posts. Reminded of late October.
Skittles
(153,111 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)GoCubsGo
(32,074 posts)Had I not cleared out my ignore list, that one would have been on it. I had one yesterday tell me that I needed to "watch it" when I suggested that there are likely Russian bots here stirring up the Bernie-Hillary wars again.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)GentryDixon
(2,947 posts)but I'm not surprised this one had posting privileges revoked.
David__77
(23,320 posts)I get the "troll" part. I imagine Russian means either a nationality or ethnicity.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)To disrupt and faction progressive forums and spread propaganda to benefit Russia...
David__77
(23,320 posts)..
rockfordfile
(8,695 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)helping to divide the party, driving a wedge between centrist and progressive
Democrats. It's not helpful at all.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)ProfessorPlum
(11,253 posts)Glad you enjoyed it.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Still here, too.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)breaking news limits that fits well with a propaganda campaign that counts on 'headline only readers' who don't have to be logged in to read.
Squinch
(50,910 posts)a shit-stirrer.
They're doing their best to distract from important things like Russia, the fact that we are on the brink of war with about 12 countries, and the fact that we all stand to lose our health care and our social security. They're doing that by exploiting drama-laden cults of personality.
This is not a mistake, this is not a sincerely held position by most of those doing it, this is simply a manipulation.
Look at the "Latest" page for a clear illustration of the point.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)betsuni
(25,374 posts)I've been waiting for that. These people are so obvious.
Squinch
(50,910 posts)Squinch
(50,910 posts)womanofthehills
(8,657 posts)Seems like a lot of angry people too..
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Because it's clear to me that the divisive tactics are working.
Gothmog
(144,908 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,036 posts)They try to separate your mind from logic and certainty with alternative facts.
It's not just on DU. I'm seeing it in other discussion venues as well.
VOX
(22,976 posts)That's the Russian m.o. in a nutshell.
Create friction, disharmony, infighting; seek out differences, then foment division and a widening of the rift, thus turning a once-unified group against itself and, in the end, weakening and destroying it.
It's infuriating, dispiriting, and it's very effective.
On edit: Upthread, I see some DUers have observed these tactics elsewhere. I also have witnessed this in reader comments on the Washington Post, New York Times and Huffington Post. Sometimes there's a giveaway, like an awkward turn of phrase or just a generic divisive comment (like a template) that could be dropped into any context. It all sounds a bit paranoid at first, but after this very real phenomenon came to light, not so much.
elmac
(4,642 posts)Cause circular firing squads on the site. Anti Bernie and today anti Thom Hartman, sickening.
Iggo
(47,534 posts)Midnight Writer
(21,696 posts)Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)
elmac This message was self-deleted by its author.
iluvtennis
(19,832 posts)Greybnk48
(10,162 posts)Don't fall for it!
Sculpin Beauregard
(1,046 posts)flying-skeleton
(696 posts)I have had several questionable "Friend" requests on my FB. The quality of these fake accounts are getting increasingly better. Initially they had very little history and personal information and pictures. Now over time, they's gotten more savvy. This will only get worse !!
Glimmer of Hope
(5,823 posts)Warpy
(111,129 posts)but that there are enough people with bugs up their buts over the last primary who are insisting to bring that trash over here.
My ignore list has grown greatly over the last four days. And they're still at it today.
SalviaBlue
(2,914 posts)Lots of (oh so subtle) anti democratic, divisive shit being spewed on DU these days.
ananda
(28,833 posts)But we are better than that and won't fall for their
divisive baiting.
Ilsa
(61,690 posts)to overthrow the dictator in the oval office.
red dog 1
(27,757 posts)I agree with you that Russian trolls are still trolling.
and not only on progressive sites like DU, but on many other types of sites as well.
I regularly re-post articles about the POS in the White House on a popular social network site
(not FB), and I usually get 1 or 2 sarcastic, mean-spirited responses, (along with supportive responses as well), and I just delete the "Trump-lover's" comments, and put a block on them.
Now, some of them, if not most of them, are truly just dumb Pro-Trumpers, but I'll bet that some of them are actually Russian trolls.
(Here are two background posts on the subject of Russian trolls)
- "Before the DNC hack, Russian Internet trolls were being hired to pose as Pro-Trump Americans"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141532557
- "Documents show how Russia's Troll army hit America"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026279986
C Moon
(12,208 posts)eShirl
(18,478 posts)Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)stonecutter357
(12,693 posts)Dem2
(8,166 posts)This place isn't even worth trolling IMO. Some people are just fanatical for their favorite politician. Erasing Russia wouldn't change that.
emulatorloo
(44,058 posts)n2doc
(47,953 posts)It is getting to be pretty bad, like back in the primaries. I wish the mods would be more aggressive in culling them.
red dog 1
(27,757 posts)(From HuffPo article, March 31, 2017"
"1,000 Paid Russian Trolls Spread Fake News On Hillary Clinton, Senate Intelligence Heads Told"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/russian-trolls-fake-news_us_58dde6bae4b08194e3b8d5c4
Also,
"Russia Hired 1,000 People To Create Anti-Clinton 'Fake News' in Key States Trump Won"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141742944
tiredtoo
(2,949 posts)I am amazed at the number of seasoned veterans on this forum that are falling for this divide and conquer technique.
Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)Post counts? One of the OP's is up in the 8000's. Sure, if someone is in double or triple figures, they're newbies and subject to heightened scrutiny. 1000 or more? Hmmm. That's a lot of time and effort to set a trap.
I don't doubt that we're being infiltrated by those who wish to divide us, but how do you tell the difference? Then again, we're not supposed to be arguing the primaries or bashing Democratic figures, so all of these pro/anti Bernie threads are seemingly at odds with DU policy. Maybe we need to introduce a separate forum for these type of threads, to keep them out of the daily mainstream in GD and therefore diminish their impact.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)We shouldn't allow these folks to instigate stuff with their poisonous posts...
zentrum
(9,865 posts)....little at first, but have now decided to just ignore them. Same folks over and over.
snort
(2,334 posts)SirBrockington
(259 posts)Generic Brad
(14,272 posts)....imagine this site without them. We would have nothing to discuss and it could be boring at times. At least now many of us are engaging and passionately defending our views. That is the one unexpected side effect of a troll onslaught.
athena
(4,187 posts)I can't believe you're arguing the opposite. They handed the election to Trump by attacking Hillary relentlessly online, including on DU until Skinner put a stop to it. For months, you couldn't post anything even mildly pro-Hillary in GD or GDP without being figuratively shredded to pieces. And you claim this site would be unimaginable without them?
George II
(67,782 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)pecosbob
(7,533 posts)Neither Mr. Sanders nor Ms. Clinton will be running for president again. If someone posts a thread talking about either of them, they are a provacateur and should be firewalled.
joet67
(624 posts)royable
(1,263 posts)Back between the primaries and the general election, I got so very disgusted with the thread bickering between supposed Sanders and Clinton supporters/bashers/provocateurs that I started placing dozens and dozens of people on my ignore list. It reduced what I could see on DU by about half, but made it possible to view DU without spiking my blood pressure.
I go check out the individuals on my ignore list now, and while I have haven't checked them all (there are so many!), a random sampling shows that approximately half of them have not posted here in the past 90 days.
Now, while I'm a low-post-count person myself, I've been registered for many years, and a visitor before that, almost from the beginnings of DU. I simply don't have the time or desire to post much. So, some of these on my ignore list could just be low-count posters like myself, who were fired up in the heated months this past summer but post infrequently enough now that they have zero points in the past 90 days. But others...? I had never seen anything like what was going on last summer and fall on here in the years I've been visiting DU. I don't know all the terms that people in the field of debate or communications might apply to what was going on here, things like strawman arguments, baiting, etc., but there was an enormous amount of it, and there were numerous textbook examples of this crap filling the discussion boards with threads containing hundreds of replies, the bulk of which had the intellectual and emotional weight of "I know you are but what am I." And I see it sparking up again in recent days here.
I firmly believe we were trolled this summer and fall, and are still being trolled, and the problem is exacerbated by a number of "valid" posters on here who are gullible enough and passionate enough to get prodded on by these provocateurs into continuing to dredge up the dissent and divisiveness and hard feelings, and it does us not one stitch of good. It divides us, it weakens us, at a time that we need to be focusing our energies on coalescing and energizing (and perhaps even broadening) our base, and taking back our country from those powerful and moneyed and greedy and traitorous beasts that would destroy it for their personal gain. I heard a snippet of Elizabeth Warren on Rachel Maddow on the car radio yesterday evening, and I agree with her, we must pick our battles and focus our energies.
IGNORE the trolls. Don't reply to them, don't engage them. Focus on the important and deadly serious work at hand.
Rant off.
wishstar
(5,268 posts)I also have been on DU since 2001, but stopped posting several years ago and after computer crash problems and email changes, I had to sign up with new name and email in 2015. But I didn't post or even read many posts during the primary season as the infighting was too intense, and lately I have been dismayed with the infighting again.
Exercising self-control to ignore the troll bait OP's (some of which may be well intentioned but ill advised) is all that is required instead of getting drawn into the useless fights .
ms liberty
(8,556 posts)quakerboy
(13,916 posts)We really don't need their help dividing ourselves. But they do it anyway. Cause its a job.
ProfessorPlum
(11,253 posts)hay rick
(7,587 posts)The Bernie-bashing threads in particular provide distraction and create division within the party when we need unity to fight the plutocratic and authoritarian forces that have gained the upper hand in our society.
PatrickforO
(14,558 posts)more business-friendly Dems are part of that trolling. And...predictably people are falling for it. I called a troll the other day on this very site.
TomCADem
(17,382 posts)Like many people with access to the Internet and a holster full of gadgets, Vladimir Nesterenko is living a double existence. In real life, the 49-year-old Kiev native is a published author and darling of the Ukrainian counterculture. Online, he's "Adolfych"a Russian-speaking mischief-maker who uses his Twitter, Facebook, and LiveJournal accounts to comment, sometimes thoughtfully and often profanely, on the deepening conflict with Russia.
"I know a lot of Muscovites have little dachas in Abkhazia," he wrote in a recent post. "But could these Muscovites have afforded their little dachas if they hadn't gotten rid of the Georgians and turned a flourishing region into cheap fucking shit, like they're doing now in Crimea?"
On another post, responding to Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev's uncharacteristic chest-pounding over a recent round of Western sanctions, he scribbled gleefully, "Podkhuilo razbushevalos," a phrase, playing off Ukraine's favored insult of Vladimir Putin, that might best be translated as "Dickhead Jr.'s freaking out."
* * *
A June article by Max Seddon of BuzzFeed reported the Kremlin was spending millions of dollars to pay English-speaking Russians to promote President Vladimir Putin and his policies in U.S. media like Fox News broadcasting and The Huffington Post and Politico news sites. Trolls are reportedly expected to manage multiple fake accounts and post on news articles 50 times a day, often with sentiments as simplistic as "Putin makes Obama look stupid and weak!"
athena
(4,187 posts)Early in the primary, I got the sense that many of the posters on the NYT were being paid to attack Hillary. It's too bad the NYT allows non-subscribers to post. If they required a subscription to post, most of those trolls would be gone -- either that, or the NYT would earn much-needed money that it could then spend on its reporting.
And don't get me started on the NYT's moderation of comments. Misogynistic attacks against women are OK, but if you object to their attacks, you're considered to be engaging in a personal attack, and your message never gets posted. This is why, as much as I believe in the NYT, I am no longer a subscriber. The moment they decide that misogyny is a form of bigotry, they will have me back as a subscriber.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)Burns me up. I prefer our usual snark.
This is like, constant primary mode around here.. And I know DU is better than that, and I don't think we're doing it.
BigmanPigman
(51,565 posts)They are everywhere...social media is just one of many areas where they exist, multiply and thrive. This is only the beginning and don't forget about the bots. Welcome to the future and the new reality. Expect more clever forms of propaganda to become the norm.
kyburbonkid
(251 posts)Certainly. I saw them everywhere in the elections. What it's done to me is solidify the need to change to a popular voting system. When you look at the electoral college system It becomes so much easier to focus efforts on a few specific states or even specific areas of a state with fake news, propaganda or whatever needed to flip a state. With BIG DATA, it can even be targeted down to individual voters. Because voter identification tech that exist today is so good, as a nation we won't be safe from hacking or rigging elections until the electoral college is eliminated.
By the way: Google "Translate certainly into Russian" .. cut and paste.
Doreen
(11,686 posts)that just do not seem right. I see how most of you/us talk to each other and how we do it. There are times I will start reading a post and as it gets in deeper I start thinking this is just to odd. What started out as one thing kind of slides smoothly into another but not smoothly enough for most of us to not detect. It is weird and kind of creepy with how they try to...should I say disconnect us from the facts?
Pachamama
(16,884 posts)Because of DU rules, we can't point them out, but many of us are very aware and Skinner and EarlG must realize it too...
Stinky The Clown
(67,757 posts)And here on DU they are out in droves. I have been here since 2004 and it is WAY different of late. I often think it is the old saw about the inmates running the jail.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)CousinIT
(9,218 posts)mighty important to them.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Got it.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)The Clinton supporters think the trolls are the ones posting pro-Bernie stuff and the Bernie supporters think the trolls are Hillary supporters bashing Bernie.
I find the whole discussion to be ridiculous.
betsuni
(25,374 posts)Hillary Clinton was the Democratic nominee for president in the last election.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)betsuni
(25,374 posts)Why wouldn't Democrats support their party's nominee? And why wouldn't a Democrat object to false accusations about their party?
StubbornThings
(259 posts)Many Bernie supporters who voted in the Democratic primary admitted that they didn't vote for Hillary in the general.
Many Hillary supporters have admitted that they wouldn't have voted for Bernie in the general.
I'm not either of those people so I don't know why a Democrat wouldn't support their nominee. You would have to ask them.
I'm not sure what you are referring to in you last question.
betsuni
(25,374 posts)Democrats vote for the Democratic nominee. The OP isn't about the primaries.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,164 posts)You just had to pipe up and make a post that insinuates the tired old divisive meme that Clinton is a REAL Democrat and should not be criticized, and Bernie is not a full time D. So by extension, trolling Bernie and his supporters in here is acceptable.
We have to all rally together with every ally that wants to help. Now is not the time to bicker inside the tent. If, I hope when, there is a time in the future when we are free of this scourge, we can afford to be more arrogant about who we allow into the tent and who we don't.
betsuni
(25,374 posts)I think you're responding to the wrong post. Or projecting. It is the year 2017 right now.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,164 posts)There are some in here that are hell bent on demeaning Bernie's work with Democrats to fight Trump, insisting that he wear the proper letter before they give him any respect, and by extension ostracizing those that supported him in the primaries.
After StubbornThings gave his opinion about some supporters from each camp over-reacting and shouting "troll!" whenever Bernie is either praised or bashed. Personally I don't think its that simple, but..
Then you said: "By "Clinton supporters" you mean Democrats, right? Hillary Clinton was the Democratic nominee for president in the last election."
To me that implied you were trying to solidify Clinton as the real Democrat, and that that gave her supporters from the primaries carte blanche to bash Bernie and his supporters because he wasn't a real Democrat. I've heard that slant so many times in here now that I just assumed that was your angle as well.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)Of the Russian TROLLS is to create dissension and factionalize. I'm just trying to remind people that the TROLLS are still at work at various sites.
Don't let the TROLLS play you...
cry baby
(6,682 posts)received was on an RT/Thom Hartmann thread.
I guess the Russian troll that got removed didn't like me commenting negatively on RT.
nyabingi
(1,145 posts)Like a lot of the DU supporters of Bernie Sanders, I haven't visited DU much since the end of last year's Democratic primary after it was strongly implied by the operators of this site that anything but full-fledged anti-Trump bombast/glowing words of adoration for Hillary Clinton would be acceptable. I had promised then not to return until after the general election and a new president was inaugurated, and I kept that promise. I've only returned at this moment to gauge the mood of the site, the trending topics, what is being widely discussed, etc., and I stumble across this post. Wow.
The Democratic primary revealed to everyone that there was a looming battle over the ideological foundations guiding the party, that there was an increasingly widening schism that threatened to swallow up electoral unity and the fight against the regressive forces running the Republican party. It is saddening to see that this ideological gulf is becoming wider and that instead of Democrats actually talking to each other and acknowledging those real differences, it seems to have become acceptable practice to tar dissent with the label of "troll", "Russian troll", "Putinist", etc., and dismiss it outright without engaging in any kind of dialogue which would address the differences we have.
What's missing from the current drive towards "unity" (i.e., Bernie and Perez's "unity" tour) is an honest accounting of what really happened last November. The constant obsession with Russia and Putin has prevented the Democratic Party from confronting the actual reasons many Democrats weren't inspired to even bother voting during the general election and why Democrats suffered such a humiliating and embarrassing loss. Even if Vladimir Putin is the Svengali puppeteer controlling Bernie supporters, Trump and all of the Republicans, dominating all online parlance, etc., that people give him credit for, it doesn't diminish the fact that the Democratic Party is in serious trouble and has done very little (if anything at all) to actually unite its factions at odds with each other.
Vladimir Putin doesn't have to spend money hiring "trolls" to divide the Democratic Party - the Democratic Party is doing a very good job of dividing itself without the help of the Russians and seeing "Russian trolls" under every bridge is not making anything better. Let's try a little more rational discussion and little less paranoia and witch hunting.
MGKrebs
(8,138 posts)is really all that helpful at this point. What happened happened, there are many points of view as to why. (Disclosure: I voter for Bernie in the primary and HRC in the general.)
If there are issues that come up going forward that require some context regarding the previous election, then sure. But just to try to convince others that someone was wronged or someone cheated or whatever just to "clear the air" I think is counterproductive. It doesn't clear any air. It may be cathartic to an individual to write those thoughts down and publish them, but I wouldn't have any expectation that it would "address the differences we have". It's likely to make them worse.
I think words like "troll" are being tossed around so frequently because we can all see the sensitivity even mentioning Bernie or Hillary elicits, and yet people keep bringing them up anyway. It's sensitive. Leave it alone for a while. Provoking one side or the other in that debate does not promote unity. Trying to find common ground moving forward promotes unity.
Don't get me wrong though, I'm not trying to tell anyone to shut up. I'm just saying that if your goal is unity, being provocative isn't likely a good path to get there.
nyabingi
(1,145 posts)the point of arguing whether or not the DNC treated Bernie fairly or not.
The "honest accounting" I'm referring to is the Democratic Party really looking at how they failed as a party with their messaging, their failure to inspire their voters, their core ideology and adherence to the corporate-based/big donor fundraising model they instituted to compete with Republicans for contributions, etc. Their focus on Putin and Russia as the only reasons for the election loss is contributing to the divisive atmosphere that exists and it portends negatively for the elections coming up.
A Democratic Party that is interested in future success would be able to acknowledge the fact that they have alienated a significant portion of their core constituency of the years and that unless those issues are addressed (and actions taken to fix them), they're going to see more election losses. Many Democrats were already lukewarm, ambivalent, or in outright opposition to Hillary Clinton long before anyone knew what CrowdStrike was or before Putin began hypnotizing Americans with his omnipotent powers.
Right now, Democrats don't want to take responsibility because they don't want to change what has kept many of them in Washington, DC way longer than they should have been. They have become comfortable, feel entitled to the riches they've become accustomed to, addicted to corporate money, and would rather go down with the Titanic defending their positions than make some substantive policy shifts that could win broad support.
The number of people on DU buying into this "it's Russia's fault" line is depressing and shows that the Democrats may be fatally wounded.
MGKrebs
(8,138 posts)with their messaging, failed to inspire their voters, and failed with their core ideology " I'll try to skip it. However, if the thread were more like "In 2020 we should have more inclusive messaging" or something, then I would likely read that. That's just me though.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,911 posts)while still sharply disagreeing about which posts are trolling. Just an ironic observation, I am really not trying to point any fingers anywhere with this comment.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)FlaGranny
(8,361 posts)trolled - by someone. Months after the election, why are people still posting derogatory things about both of the primary candidates. It's pure bull and completely unhelpful and does nothing to help Democrats unite and win. That's how you know it's trolling, even if the person as been a member for a long time.
athena
(4,187 posts)If more of us put them on our ignore lists, they would become ineffective and irrelevant.