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Thu Apr 20, 2017, 02:58 PM

I believe that Russian trolls are STILL TROLLING

Left-leaning and progressive forums like this one. Would you agree?

The trolls don't quit trolling! Even NOW the trolls are working to faction us progressives and Dems by continuing to introduce provocative threads and subject matter.

BEWARE! The TROLLS are still working to pull the strings - DON'T LET THEM PULL YOUR STRING!

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Reply I believe that Russian trolls are STILL TROLLING (Original post)
TheDebbieDee Apr 20 OP
cadmium Apr 20 #1
AJT Apr 20 #2
Me. Apr 20 #3
L. Coyote Apr 20 #4
jberryhill Apr 20 #7
Useless in FL Apr 20 #19
jberryhill Apr 20 #5
zentrum Apr 20 #66
Raster Apr 20 #6
Sculpin Beauregard Apr 20 #8
Siwsan Apr 20 #9
TheDebbieDee Apr 20 #10
Siwsan Apr 20 #21
TheDebbieDee Apr 20 #31
Siwsan Apr 20 #43
TheDebbieDee Apr 20 #56
JTFrog Apr 20 #11
ymetca Apr 20 #12
William769 Apr 20 #13
Wellstone ruled Apr 20 #14
Skittles Apr 20 #15
KittyWampus Apr 20 #35
GoCubsGo Apr 20 #53
jberryhill Apr 20 #63
GentryDixon Apr 21 #106
David__77 Apr 20 #16
TheDebbieDee Apr 20 #20
David__77 Apr 20 #22
rockfordfile Apr 20 #17
panader0 Apr 20 #18
ehrnst Apr 20 #49
ProfessorPlum Apr 20 #76
ehrnst Apr 20 #77
Hortensis Apr 20 #23
Sunlei Apr 20 #24
Squinch Apr 20 #25
KittyWampus Apr 20 #37
betsuni Apr 20 #51
Squinch Apr 20 #55
Squinch Apr 20 #52
womanofthehills Apr 21 #100
retrowire Apr 20 #26
Gothmog Apr 20 #27
bucolic_frolic Apr 20 #28
VOX Apr 20 #29
elmac Apr 20 #30
Iggo Apr 20 #32
Midnight Writer Apr 20 #64
elmac Apr 20 #33
iluvtennis Apr 20 #34
Greybnk48 Apr 20 #36
Sculpin Beauregard Apr 20 #38
flying-skeleton Apr 20 #39
Glimmer of Hope Apr 20 #40
Warpy Apr 20 #41
SalviaBlue Apr 20 #42
ananda Apr 20 #44
Ilsa Apr 20 #45
red dog 1 Apr 20 #46
C Moon Apr 20 #47
eShirl Apr 20 #48
Amaryllis Apr 20 #50
stonecutter357 Apr 20 #54
Dem2 Apr 20 #57
emulatorloo Apr 20 #58
n2doc Apr 20 #59
red dog 1 Apr 20 #60
tiredtoo Apr 20 #61
Mr. Ected Apr 20 #62
TheDebbieDee Apr 20 #79
zentrum Apr 20 #65
snort Apr 20 #67
SirBrockington Apr 20 #68
Generic Brad Apr 20 #69
athena Apr 22 #114
George II Apr 20 #70
NurseJackie Apr 22 #116
pecosbob Apr 20 #71
joet67 Apr 20 #72
royable Apr 20 #73
wishstar Apr 20 #81
ms liberty Apr 21 #87
quakerboy Apr 20 #74
ProfessorPlum Apr 20 #75
hay rick Apr 20 #78
PatrickforO Apr 20 #80
TomCADem Apr 20 #82
athena Apr 22 #115
annabanana Apr 20 #83
BigmanPigman Apr 21 #84
kyburbonkid Apr 21 #85
Doreen Apr 21 #86
Pachamama Apr 21 #88
Stinky The Clown Apr 21 #89
Laura PourMeADrink Apr 21 #90
CousinIT Apr 21 #91
alarimer Apr 21 #92
StubbornThings Apr 21 #93
betsuni Apr 21 #94
StubbornThings Apr 21 #95
betsuni Apr 21 #98
StubbornThings Apr 21 #102
betsuni Apr 21 #110
LiberalLovinLug Apr 21 #104
betsuni Apr 21 #111
LiberalLovinLug Apr 22 #112
TheDebbieDee Apr 21 #96
cry baby Apr 21 #97
nyabingi Apr 21 #99
MGKrebs Apr 21 #105
nyabingi Apr 21 #108
MGKrebs Apr 21 #109
Tom Rinaldo Apr 21 #101
StubbornThings Apr 21 #103
FlaGranny Apr 21 #107
athena Apr 22 #113

Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:00 PM

1. For sure. nt

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:02 PM

2. I think you're right.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:03 PM

3. Indeed!

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:05 PM

4. The Republican Trolls are now trying to push a Dem - Progressive shift.

As if we are not all Democrats.

These are Republican trolls, working on the Republican agenda, even if the Rs outsource their trolls to other countries to get more troll per buck with their Russian mob laundered money.

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:09 PM

7. Absolutely


We won GA06 by a hefty margin over any other candidate, and suddenly DU erupts into idiocy.

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:40 PM

19. I do agree with you...

I cringe every time I see a post that looks like this...

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:07 PM

5. I believe you are correct


In the wake of a spectacular result in GA-06 - a huge margin over any other candidate - a stupid food fight breaks out at DU.

That's not normal. It just isn't.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:18 PM

66. Agree.

I kept asking why now? It was just weird.

Never got an answer and now I'm just tuning them out. We need to stay focused on the real issues.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:08 PM

6. Yes!!! Now that the stuff is hitting the fan, the trolls are cranking out as...

...much superfluous shit as possible to confound and confuse. If they get us chasing OUR tails, we won't be chasing theirs!

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:09 PM

8. agree. The Goppers are freaking the F out. This is active measures, whether foreign or domestic.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:11 PM

9. I think I got a "friend request" from one, on Facebook!

The first and last names were very Anglo but his profile photo showed him in front of a media back drop that was all in Cyrillic script.

Call me suspicious but I didn't accept the request.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #9)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:17 PM

10. Accept his request and counter-TROLL him!

Turn him and make him one of ours!

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:41 PM

21. I'm not that fluent in Russian, or whatever.......

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #21)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:04 PM

31. The TROLLS are fluent in English! If he doesn't

Speak English then he isn't a TROLL.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #31)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:30 PM

43. I'm pretty sure this guy sent out a flurry of friend requests to people in the group

Of course non-English speakers can be trolls! I am a member of a progressive Facebook group and we had quite a spate of very vile posts from people whose 'profiles' were brand new and/or pretty much blank. The one thing they had in common was the Cyrillic script on their pages. All they did was post offensive photos and memes from the same, already discredited source. I wish I could remember the name but I blocked each and every one of these trolls.

My definition of a troll is anyone who goes around posting on an opposing political or social group's page with the primary goal of being a disruptive and argumentative asshole. I don't care which side of the political spectrum they fall on, it's just childish. In this particular group, we've all pretty much agreed to stop arguing with them, and just hit the block option.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #43)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 05:27 PM

56. The TROLLS I'm talking abt speak/write English

well enough to pass themselves off as RWNJs or overly-concerned progressives that are still pissed off that Sen Sanders was somehow screwed over in the Dem primaries...

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:20 PM

11. No fucking doubt about it. nt

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)


Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:24 PM

13. Absolutely!

How can no one see it?

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:24 PM

14. They never went away.

Like most here on this board,we can see this as fact. Like many have stated,the GA-6 was sure a tell. Noticed a increase in boldness of their posts. Reminded of late October.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:25 PM

15. I don't know what you're talking about

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #35)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 05:18 PM

53. That one doesn't surprise me.

Had I not cleared out my ignore list, that one would have been on it. I had one yesterday tell me that I needed to "watch it" when I suggested that there are likely Russian bots here stirring up the Bernie-Hillary wars again.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #35)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:53 PM

106. I've been without internet access for the last week,

but I'm not surprised this one had posting privileges revoked.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:34 PM

16. Are you referring to Russian citizens, ethnic Russians, or something else?

I get the "troll" part. I imagine Russian means either a nationality or ethnicity.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:41 PM

20. I am referring to the TROLLS employed by Putin

To disrupt and faction progressive forums and spread propaganda to benefit Russia...

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #20)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:43 PM

22. Thanks for the response.

..

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:35 PM

17. yes they are

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:38 PM

18. I think there are many otherwise well-meaning DUers that are

helping to divide the party, driving a wedge between centrist and progressive
Democrats. It's not helpful at all.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #49)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:31 PM

76. I know. I used that post to call those divisive people out

Glad you enjoyed it.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #76)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:49 PM

77. Yep, I did.



Still here, too.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:43 PM

23. Oh, absolutely. Dissension is Putin's social media poison.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:50 PM

24. yup, they've always been here. After all DU is ranked #1 forum for Ds. & has breaking news limits

breaking news limits that fits well with a propaganda campaign that counts on 'headline only readers' who don't have to be logged in to read.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:51 PM

25. Yes. There are some longstanding people here who just never post anything that isn't

a shit-stirrer.

They're doing their best to distract from important things like Russia, the fact that we are on the brink of war with about 12 countries, and the fact that we all stand to lose our health care and our social security. They're doing that by exploiting drama-laden cults of personality.

This is not a mistake, this is not a sincerely held position by most of those doing it, this is simply a manipulation.

Look at the "Latest" page for a clear illustration of the point.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #25)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:15 PM

37. Hey Squinch, I know you got a hide because of this one... so enjoy:

 

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #37)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 05:13 PM

51. Good news!

I've been waiting for that. These people are so obvious.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #51)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 05:21 PM

55. A better name would have been, "NotfittobethegumonFDR'sshoe"

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #37)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 05:17 PM

52. Yeah! Thank you for telling me, Kitty! Who didn't see that one a mile away, huh?

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Response to Squinch (Reply #25)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 12:12 PM

100. I definitely agree - lots of them on DU.

Seems like a lot of angry people too..

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:54 PM

26. We need a plan. We need action.

Because it's clear to me that the divisive tactics are working.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:54 PM

27. Go the JPR site if you need any confirmation

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:55 PM

28. Absolutely agree

They try to separate your mind from logic and certainty with alternative facts.

It's not just on DU. I'm seeing it in other discussion venues as well.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 03:56 PM

29. Without question! Dividing and pitting us against ourselves.

That's the Russian m.o. in a nutshell.

Create friction, disharmony, infighting; seek out differences, then foment division and a widening of the rift, thus turning a once-unified group against itself and, in the end, weakening and destroying it.

It's infuriating, dispiriting, and it's very effective.

On edit: Upthread, I see some DUers have observed these tactics elsewhere. I also have witnessed this in reader comments on the Washington Post, New York Times and Huffington Post. Sometimes there's a giveaway, like an awkward turn of phrase or just a generic divisive comment (like a template) that could be dropped into any context. It all sounds a bit paranoid at first, but after this very real phenomenon came to light, not so much.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:03 PM

30. Yes, working to divide and conquer

Cause circular firing squads on the site. Anti Bernie and today anti Thom Hartman, sickening.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:04 PM

32. I can't imagine why they would have stopped.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #32)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:11 PM

64. There you go. In fact, since they have been successful, why wouldn't they step it up?

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)


Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:13 PM

34. Agree

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:15 PM

36. Agree, and working real hard to get us all at each other's throats.

Don't fall for it!

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:15 PM

38. Yes, there should be a notice warning people!! ⚠️⚠️

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:17 PM

39. Oh yeah ... For sure .... I see it all across Social Media

I have had several questionable "Friend" requests on my FB. The quality of these fake accounts are getting increasingly better. Initially they had very little history and personal information and pictures. Now over time, they's gotten more savvy. This will only get worse !!

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:21 PM

40. Yes. It isn't always obvious but once I question a post or source I see it.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:21 PM

41. I think the real trolling is over at Farcebook

but that there are enough people with bugs up their buts over the last primary who are insisting to bring that trash over here.

My ignore list has grown greatly over the last four days. And they're still at it today.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:28 PM

42. Oh yea... more than ever.

Lots of (oh so subtle) anti democratic, divisive shit being spewed on DU these days.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:34 PM

44. Absolutely agree!

But we are better than that and won't fall for their
divisive baiting.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:35 PM

45. Absolutely. They can't let us pull ourselves together

to overthrow the dictator in the oval office.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:38 PM

46. K&R...Thanks for posting

I agree with you that Russian trolls are still trolling.
and not only on progressive sites like DU, but on many other types of sites as well.

I regularly re-post articles about the POS in the White House on a popular social network site
(not FB), and I usually get 1 or 2 sarcastic, mean-spirited responses, (along with supportive responses as well), and I just delete the "Trump-lover's" comments, and put a block on them.
Now, some of them, if not most of them, are truly just dumb Pro-Trumpers, but I'll bet that some of them are actually Russian trolls.


(Here are two background posts on the subject of Russian trolls)

- "Before the DNC hack, Russian Internet trolls were being hired to pose as Pro-Trump Americans"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141532557

- "Documents show how Russia's Troll army hit America"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026279986

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 04:47 PM

47. Agreed 100%

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 05:00 PM

48. they like to stir the shit

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 05:11 PM

50. I thought that was a given. Why would they stop?

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 05:18 PM

54. the alert stalking is back with a vengeance ,so be careful !

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 05:30 PM

57. It's been like this since forever

This place isn't even worth trolling IMO. Some people are just fanatical for their favorite politician. Erasing Russia wouldn't change that.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 05:38 PM

58. Rove-type Trolls as well. Pretending to be lefties attacking Dems from the left, stirring the pot.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 05:40 PM

59. It certainly seems like a major uptick in divisive posts here

It is getting to be pretty bad, like back in the primaries. I wish the mods would be more aggressive in culling them.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 05:46 PM

60. The Russian trolls may have cost Hillary Clinton the election...and they ARE STILL TROLLING!

(From HuffPo article, March 31, 2017"
"1,000 Paid Russian Trolls Spread Fake News On Hillary Clinton, Senate Intelligence Heads Told"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/russian-trolls-fake-news_us_58dde6bae4b08194e3b8d5c4

Also,
"Russia Hired 1,000 People To Create Anti-Clinton 'Fake News' in Key States Trump Won"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141742944

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 05:51 PM

61. Yes they are and they are doing a good job at it.

I am amazed at the number of seasoned veterans on this forum that are falling for this divide and conquer technique.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 05:54 PM

62. So how can we discern the difference between trolls and legitimate posters?

Post counts? One of the OP's is up in the 8000's. Sure, if someone is in double or triple figures, they're newbies and subject to heightened scrutiny. 1000 or more? Hmmm. That's a lot of time and effort to set a trap.

I don't doubt that we're being infiltrated by those who wish to divide us, but how do you tell the difference? Then again, we're not supposed to be arguing the primaries or bashing Democratic figures, so all of these pro/anti Bernie threads are seemingly at odds with DU policy. Maybe we need to introduce a separate forum for these type of threads, to keep them out of the daily mainstream in GD and therefore diminish their impact.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Reply #62)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 09:02 PM

79. I think it doesn't matter whether they are Russian TROLLS or RWNJs...

We shouldn't allow these folks to instigate stuff with their poisonous posts...

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:15 PM

65. They tripped me up a

....little at first, but have now decided to just ignore them. Same folks over and over.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:23 PM

67. Obviously

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:42 PM

68. Yes

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:51 PM

69. Obviously, however.....

....imagine this site without them. We would have nothing to discuss and it could be boring at times. At least now many of us are engaging and passionately defending our views. That is the one unexpected side effect of a troll onslaught.

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Response to Generic Brad (Reply #69)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:57 PM

114. This site would be much better without them.

I can't believe you're arguing the opposite. They handed the election to Trump by attacking Hillary relentlessly online, including on DU until Skinner put a stop to it. For months, you couldn't post anything even mildly pro-Hillary in GD or GDP without being figuratively shredded to pieces. And you claim this site would be unimaginable without them?

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:55 PM

70. They seem to have been swarming around DU for the last few days.

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Response to George II (Reply #70)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:46 PM

116. Some of them are amusingly obvious. Right down to the Boris and Natasha broken-English.





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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:57 PM

71. A good rule of thumb

Neither Mr. Sanders nor Ms. Clinton will be running for president again. If someone posts a thread talking about either of them, they are a provacateur and should be firewalled.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:04 PM

72. Yeah I have noticed the Bernie-bashing, too. nt

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:23 PM

73. My ignore list is very telling.

Back between the primaries and the general election, I got so very disgusted with the thread bickering between supposed Sanders and Clinton supporters/bashers/provocateurs that I started placing dozens and dozens of people on my ignore list. It reduced what I could see on DU by about half, but made it possible to view DU without spiking my blood pressure.

I go check out the individuals on my ignore list now, and while I have haven't checked them all (there are so many!), a random sampling shows that approximately half of them have not posted here in the past 90 days.

Now, while I'm a low-post-count person myself, I've been registered for many years, and a visitor before that, almost from the beginnings of DU. I simply don't have the time or desire to post much. So, some of these on my ignore list could just be low-count posters like myself, who were fired up in the heated months this past summer but post infrequently enough now that they have zero points in the past 90 days. But others...? I had never seen anything like what was going on last summer and fall on here in the years I've been visiting DU. I don't know all the terms that people in the field of debate or communications might apply to what was going on here, things like strawman arguments, baiting, etc., but there was an enormous amount of it, and there were numerous textbook examples of this crap filling the discussion boards with threads containing hundreds of replies, the bulk of which had the intellectual and emotional weight of "I know you are but what am I." And I see it sparking up again in recent days here.

I firmly believe we were trolled this summer and fall, and are still being trolled, and the problem is exacerbated by a number of "valid" posters on here who are gullible enough and passionate enough to get prodded on by these provocateurs into continuing to dredge up the dissent and divisiveness and hard feelings, and it does us not one stitch of good. It divides us, it weakens us, at a time that we need to be focusing our energies on coalescing and energizing (and perhaps even broadening) our base, and taking back our country from those powerful and moneyed and greedy and traitorous beasts that would destroy it for their personal gain. I heard a snippet of Elizabeth Warren on Rachel Maddow on the car radio yesterday evening, and I agree with her, we must pick our battles and focus our energies.

IGNORE the trolls. Don't reply to them, don't engage them. Focus on the important and deadly serious work at hand.

Rant off.



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Response to royable (Reply #73)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 09:04 PM

81. I agree, best advice is don't feed the trolls or take the bait to refight same arguments repeatedly

I also have been on DU since 2001, but stopped posting several years ago and after computer crash problems and email changes, I had to sign up with new name and email in 2015. But I didn't post or even read many posts during the primary season as the infighting was too intense, and lately I have been dismayed with the infighting again.

Exercising self-control to ignore the troll bait OP's (some of which may be well intentioned but ill advised) is all that is required instead of getting drawn into the useless fights .

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Response to royable (Reply #73)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 06:20 AM

87. Well said, and I agree. n/t

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:53 PM

74. They definitely are

We really don't need their help dividing ourselves. But they do it anyway. Cause its a job.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:27 PM

75. Agreed

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:59 PM

78. Agreed.

The Bernie-bashing threads in particular provide distraction and create division within the party when we need unity to fight the plutocratic and authoritarian forces that have gained the upper hand in our society.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 09:03 PM

80. I think a lot of the pokes at Bernie, and the corresponding pokes at

more business-friendly Dems are part of that trolling. And...predictably people are falling for it. I called a troll the other day on this very site.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 09:20 PM

82. Atlantic: The Kremlin's Troll Army - Moscow is financing legions of pro-Russia Internet commenters

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/08/the-kremlins-troll-army/375932/

Like many people with access to the Internet and a holster full of gadgets, Vladimir Nesterenko is living a double existence. In real life, the 49-year-old Kiev native is a published author and darling of the Ukrainian counterculture. Online, he's "Adolfych"a Russian-speaking mischief-maker who uses his Twitter, Facebook, and LiveJournal accounts to comment, sometimes thoughtfully and often profanely, on the deepening conflict with Russia.

"I know a lot of Muscovites have little dachas in Abkhazia," he wrote in a recent post. "But could these Muscovites have afforded their little dachas if they hadn't gotten rid of the Georgians and turned a flourishing region into cheap fucking shit, like they're doing now in Crimea?"

On another post, responding to Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev's uncharacteristic chest-pounding over a recent round of Western sanctions, he scribbled gleefully, "Podkhuilo razbushevalos," a phrase, playing off Ukraine's favored insult of Vladimir Putin, that might best be translated as "Dickhead Jr.'s freaking out."

* * *

A June article by Max Seddon of BuzzFeed reported the Kremlin was spending millions of dollars to pay English-speaking Russians to promote President Vladimir Putin and his policies in U.S. media like Fox News broadcasting and The Huffington Post and Politico news sites. Trolls are reportedly expected to manage multiple fake accounts and post on news articles 50 times a day, often with sentiments as simplistic as "Putin makes Obama look stupid and weak!"




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Response to TomCADem (Reply #82)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:03 PM

115. This is consistent with my observations.

A June article by Max Seddon of BuzzFeed reported the Kremlin was spending millions of dollars to pay English-speaking Russians to promote President Vladimir Putin and his policies in U.S. media like Fox News broadcasting and The Huffington Post and Politico news sites. Trolls are reportedly expected to manage multiple fake accounts and post on news articles 50 times a day, often with sentiments as simplistic as "Putin makes Obama look stupid and weak!"

Early in the primary, I got the sense that many of the posters on the NYT were being paid to attack Hillary. It's too bad the NYT allows non-subscribers to post. If they required a subscription to post, most of those trolls would be gone -- either that, or the NYT would earn much-needed money that it could then spend on its reporting.

And don't get me started on the NYT's moderation of comments. Misogynistic attacks against women are OK, but if you object to their attacks, you're considered to be engaging in a personal attack, and your message never gets posted. This is why, as much as I believe in the NYT, I am no longer a subscriber. The moment they decide that misogyny is a form of bigotry, they will have me back as a subscriber.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:05 PM

83. trollskis and botskis! . .

Burns me up. I prefer our usual snark.

This is like, constant primary mode around here.. And I know DU is better than that, and I don't think we're doing it.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 12:10 AM

84. Of course they are.

They are everywhere...social media is just one of many areas where they exist, multiply and thrive. This is only the beginning and don't forget about the bots. Welcome to the future and the new reality. Expect more clever forms of propaganda to become the norm.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 12:11 AM

85. безусловно

Certainly. I saw them everywhere in the elections. What it's done to me is solidify the need to change to a popular voting system. When you look at the electoral college system It becomes so much easier to focus efforts on a few specific states or even specific areas of a state with fake news, propaganda or whatever needed to flip a state. With BIG DATA, it can even be targeted down to individual voters. Because voter identification tech that exist today is so good, as a nation we won't be safe from hacking or rigging elections until the electoral college is eliminated.

By the way: Google "Translate certainly into Russian" .. cut and paste.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 12:18 AM

86. I have not been with DU for too long but I do notice some things

that just do not seem right. I see how most of you/us talk to each other and how we do it. There are times I will start reading a post and as it gets in deeper I start thinking this is just to odd. What started out as one thing kind of slides smoothly into another but not smoothly enough for most of us to not detect. It is weird and kind of creepy with how they try to...should I say disconnect us from the facts?

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 06:21 AM

88. There are trolls on DU and yes, even likely in this thread hiding as "one of DU"



Because of DU rules, we can't point them out, but many of us are very aware and Skinner and EarlG must realize it too...

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 08:16 AM

89. ABSOLUTELY

And here on DU they are out in droves. I have been here since 2004 and it is WAY different of late. I often think it is the old saw about the inmates running the jail.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 08:19 AM

90. Think it is more in the squelching of any idea that might help us succeed.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 08:46 AM

91. I believe so too. Keeping a Sanders-Dem-Clinton divide alive seems

mighty important to them.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 08:46 AM

92. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is a troll.

Got it.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 10:30 AM

93. This thread is hilarious.

 

The Clinton supporters think the trolls are the ones posting pro-Bernie stuff and the Bernie supporters think the trolls are Hillary supporters bashing Bernie.

I find the whole discussion to be ridiculous.

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Response to StubbornThings (Reply #93)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 10:40 AM

94. By "Clinton supporters" you mean Democrats, right?

Hillary Clinton was the Democratic nominee for president in the last election.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #94)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 10:46 AM

95. No. I mean Clinton supporters. nt

 

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Response to StubbornThings (Reply #95)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 11:50 AM

98. I still don't get it. The Democratic nominee was Clinton.

Why wouldn't Democrats support their party's nominee? And why wouldn't a Democrat object to false accusations about their party?

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Response to betsuni (Reply #98)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 01:24 PM

102. It's not that hard.

 

Many Bernie supporters who voted in the Democratic primary admitted that they didn't vote for Hillary in the general.

Many Hillary supporters have admitted that they wouldn't have voted for Bernie in the general.

I'm not either of those people so I don't know why a Democrat wouldn't support their nominee. You would have to ask them.

I'm not sure what you are referring to in you last question.

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Response to StubbornThings (Reply #102)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 05:20 PM

110. No, many Hillary supporters have not admitted that they wouldn't have voted for Bernie.

Democrats vote for the Democratic nominee. The OP isn't about the primaries.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #94)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 01:40 PM

104. You're falling for it

You just had to pipe up and make a post that insinuates the tired old divisive meme that Clinton is a REAL Democrat and should not be criticized, and Bernie is not a full time D. So by extension, trolling Bernie and his supporters in here is acceptable.

We have to all rally together with every ally that wants to help. Now is not the time to bicker inside the tent. If, I hope when, there is a time in the future when we are free of this scourge, we can afford to be more arrogant about who we allow into the tent and who we don't.

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #104)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 05:23 PM

111. I have no idea what you're talking about.

I think you're responding to the wrong post. Or projecting. It is the year 2017 right now.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #111)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 02:45 PM

112. I apologize if I misinterpreted your post

There are some in here that are hell bent on demeaning Bernie's work with Democrats to fight Trump, insisting that he wear the proper letter before they give him any respect, and by extension ostracizing those that supported him in the primaries.

After StubbornThings gave his opinion about some supporters from each camp over-reacting and shouting "troll!" whenever Bernie is either praised or bashed. Personally I don't think its that simple, but..

Then you said: "By "Clinton supporters" you mean Democrats, right? Hillary Clinton was the Democratic nominee for president in the last election."

To me that implied you were trying to solidify Clinton as the real Democrat, and that that gave her supporters from the primaries carte blanche to bash Bernie and his supporters because he wasn't a real Democrat. I've heard that slant so many times in here now that I just assumed that was your angle as well.

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Response to StubbornThings (Reply #93)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 11:14 AM

96. The TROLLS belong to both groups! The objective

Of the Russian TROLLS is to create dissension and factionalize. I'm just trying to remind people that the TROLLS are still at work at various sites.

Don't let the TROLLS play you...

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 11:20 AM

97. Absolutely! The only "message auto removed" reply I've ever

received was on an RT/Thom Hartmann thread.

I guess the Russian troll that got removed didn't like me commenting negatively on RT.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 12:04 PM

99. A troll under every bridge

Like a lot of the DU supporters of Bernie Sanders, I haven't visited DU much since the end of last year's Democratic primary after it was strongly implied by the operators of this site that anything but full-fledged anti-Trump bombast/glowing words of adoration for Hillary Clinton would be acceptable. I had promised then not to return until after the general election and a new president was inaugurated, and I kept that promise. I've only returned at this moment to gauge the mood of the site, the trending topics, what is being widely discussed, etc., and I stumble across this post. Wow.

The Democratic primary revealed to everyone that there was a looming battle over the ideological foundations guiding the party, that there was an increasingly widening schism that threatened to swallow up electoral unity and the fight against the regressive forces running the Republican party. It is saddening to see that this ideological gulf is becoming wider and that instead of Democrats actually talking to each other and acknowledging those real differences, it seems to have become acceptable practice to tar dissent with the label of "troll", "Russian troll", "Putinist", etc., and dismiss it outright without engaging in any kind of dialogue which would address the differences we have.

What's missing from the current drive towards "unity" (i.e., Bernie and Perez's "unity" tour) is an honest accounting of what really happened last November. The constant obsession with Russia and Putin has prevented the Democratic Party from confronting the actual reasons many Democrats weren't inspired to even bother voting during the general election and why Democrats suffered such a humiliating and embarrassing loss. Even if Vladimir Putin is the Svengali puppeteer controlling Bernie supporters, Trump and all of the Republicans, dominating all online parlance, etc., that people give him credit for, it doesn't diminish the fact that the Democratic Party is in serious trouble and has done very little (if anything at all) to actually unite its factions at odds with each other.

Vladimir Putin doesn't have to spend money hiring "trolls" to divide the Democratic Party - the Democratic Party is doing a very good job of dividing itself without the help of the Russians and seeing "Russian trolls" under every bridge is not making anything better. Let's try a little more rational discussion and little less paranoia and witch hunting.

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Response to nyabingi (Reply #99)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 01:49 PM

105. I don't think that "an honest accounting of what really happened last November"

is really all that helpful at this point. What happened happened, there are many points of view as to why. (Disclosure: I voter for Bernie in the primary and HRC in the general.)

If there are issues that come up going forward that require some context regarding the previous election, then sure. But just to try to convince others that someone was wronged or someone cheated or whatever just to "clear the air" I think is counterproductive. It doesn't clear any air. It may be cathartic to an individual to write those thoughts down and publish them, but I wouldn't have any expectation that it would "address the differences we have". It's likely to make them worse.

I think words like "troll" are being tossed around so frequently because we can all see the sensitivity even mentioning Bernie or Hillary elicits, and yet people keep bringing them up anyway. It's sensitive. Leave it alone for a while. Provoking one side or the other in that debate does not promote unity. Trying to find common ground moving forward promotes unity.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not trying to tell anyone to shut up. I'm just saying that if your goal is unity, being provocative isn't likely a good path to get there.

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Response to MGKrebs (Reply #105)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 03:12 PM

108. I think it's pretty much beyond

the point of arguing whether or not the DNC treated Bernie fairly or not.

The "honest accounting" I'm referring to is the Democratic Party really looking at how they failed as a party with their messaging, their failure to inspire their voters, their core ideology and adherence to the corporate-based/big donor fundraising model they instituted to compete with Republicans for contributions, etc. Their focus on Putin and Russia as the only reasons for the election loss is contributing to the divisive atmosphere that exists and it portends negatively for the elections coming up.

A Democratic Party that is interested in future success would be able to acknowledge the fact that they have alienated a significant portion of their core constituency of the years and that unless those issues are addressed (and actions taken to fix them), they're going to see more election losses. Many Democrats were already lukewarm, ambivalent, or in outright opposition to Hillary Clinton long before anyone knew what CrowdStrike was or before Putin began hypnotizing Americans with his omnipotent powers.

Right now, Democrats don't want to take responsibility because they don't want to change what has kept many of them in Washington, DC way longer than they should have been. They have become comfortable, feel entitled to the riches they've become accustomed to, addicted to corporate money, and would rather go down with the Titanic defending their positions than make some substantive policy shifts that could win broad support.

The number of people on DU buying into this "it's Russia's fault" line is depressing and shows that the Democrats may be fatally wounded.

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Response to nyabingi (Reply #108)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 03:51 PM

109. Well if you start a thread about "The Democratic Party failed

with their messaging, failed to inspire their voters, and failed with their core ideology " I'll try to skip it. However, if the thread were more like "In 2020 we should have more inclusive messaging" or something, then I would likely read that. That's just me though.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 01:10 PM

101. It's funny how we can all reach consensus on this concept

while still sharply disagreeing about which posts are trolling. Just an ironic observation, I am really not trying to point any fingers anywhere with this comment.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #101)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 01:27 PM

103. I agree. nt

 

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #101)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 03:02 PM

107. Both sides are being

trolled - by someone. Months after the election, why are people still posting derogatory things about both of the primary candidates. It's pure bull and completely unhelpful and does nothing to help Democrats unite and win. That's how you know it's trolling, even if the person as been a member for a long time.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Original post)

Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:53 PM

113. That's why they all go straight to my ignore list.

If more of us put them on our ignore lists, they would become ineffective and irrelevant.

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