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Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:16 PM

In 1980 I said that Reagan had early Alzheimer's

and everybody got on my case. Actually not quite everybody: those who had family members with it agreed with me. I am stating for the record that this guy has it as well. I've treated over forty thousand patients in my life and of those about three thousand i have treated long-term from age 50 on for up to thirty-eight years. I know what I see and I know what I hear and this is without question in my mind to a degree of medical certainty a case of dementia superimposed upon, among other diagnoses, malignant narcissism coupled with a few other conditions on other axes.

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Reply In 1980 I said that Reagan had early Alzheimer's (Original post)
PCIntern Thursday OP
L. Coyote Thursday #1
PCIntern Thursday #2
The Velveteen Ocelot Thursday #3
PCIntern Thursday #14
Towlie Thursday #41
politicat Thursday #64
dixiegrrrrl Thursday #69
politicat Friday #70
get the red out Friday #80
politicat Friday #81
Hekate Friday #90
Binders Keepers Thursday #4
The Velveteen Ocelot Thursday #5
octoberlib Thursday #6
Ilsa Thursday #25
maxsolomon Thursday #8
RKP5637 Thursday #45
maxsolomon Thursday #49
tavalon Thursday #30
ms liberty Thursday #54
erpowers Thursday #7
Spider Jerusalem Thursday #9
Laura PourMeADrink Friday #73
Phoenix61 Thursday #10
Ilsa Thursday #28
Phoenix61 Thursday #33
Laffy Kat Friday #107
RKP5637 Thursday #46
Blue_Roses Thursday #67
Phoenix61 Friday #78
Zoonart Friday #76
Sculpin Beauregard Thursday #11
Spider Jerusalem Thursday #19
Sculpin Beauregard Thursday #34
Spider Jerusalem Thursday #36
RKP5637 Thursday #47
pansypoo53219 Thursday #53
ms liberty Thursday #56
LenaBaby61 Thursday #62
ginnyinWI Thursday #37
JohnnyLib2 Thursday #12
Scarsdale Friday #113
BannonsLiver Thursday #13
PCIntern Thursday #15
tblue37 Thursday #61
greymattermom Thursday #16
calimary Thursday #42
LuckyLib Friday #98
calimary Friday #115
nolabear Thursday #51
dixiegrrrrl Friday #71
nolabear Friday #88
Justice Friday #105
bathroommonkey76 Thursday #17
BannonsLiver Thursday #18
hunter Thursday #20
lisby Friday #87
Freethinker65 Thursday #21
joet67 Thursday #22
PCIntern Thursday #23
Ilsa Thursday #24
andym Thursday #26
we can do it Thursday #27
Stuart G Thursday #29
The Velveteen Ocelot Thursday #31
tavalon Thursday #35
Freddie Thursday #58
dgibby Friday #106
onetexan Thursday #32
ginnyinWI Thursday #38
SalviaBlue Thursday #39
elleng Thursday #40
mopinko Thursday #43
joanbarnes Thursday #44
Arazi Thursday #48
pansypoo53219 Thursday #50
Warpy Thursday #52
PatrickforO Thursday #55
C Moon Thursday #57
tblue37 Thursday #59
displacedtexan Thursday #60
peggysue2 Thursday #63
WinkyDink Thursday #66
Freethinker65 Friday #77
RVN VET71 Friday #97
LuckyLib Friday #117
Stuart G Thursday #65
moondust Thursday #68
Laura PourMeADrink Friday #75
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dgibby Friday #109
Hekate Friday #91
First Speaker Friday #92
not fooled Friday #93
Progressive dog Friday #94
tclambert Friday #95
Nonhlanhla Friday #96
Honeycombe8 Friday #100
niyad Friday #111
Orsino Friday #112
no_hypocrisy Friday #114
ailsagirl Friday #116
progressoid Friday #118
kwassa Friday #119
The Velveteen Ocelot Friday #121
LongTomH Friday #120

Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:17 PM

1. People wouldn't believe me either when I said he was failing mentally. Too brainwashed to think

for themselves or pay close attention to his speech patterns. Same old, same old with trump.

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:19 PM

2. Yep...

plus he requires family handlers to be close by. Remember Nancy's hovering? I wasn't for nothing.

other issues as well.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:20 PM

3. I don't doubt it, but I'm curious - what symptoms do you see

that can't be explained by ignorance and assholery? As far as anybody knows, Trump has always been a dick. What's he been doing lately that's beyond mere Trumpian dickishness?

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:49 PM

14. First of all: the gestalt.

It's like what the Justice said about pornography: I know it when I see it.

Second, the interview with Bartiromo where she corrected him: his response was very indicative of a processing issue.

Many others...

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:16 PM

41. "Trumpian dickishness" Try saying that three times real fast.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 09:29 PM

64. Speech looping. That's the big tell for me.

Though I think he has vascular dementia rather than Alzeheimer's, because the leading edge of vascular tends to present with emotional volitility and a contracting vocabulary long before the memory issues become apparent. We know he's always been an asshole, but he used to be a much more articulate asshole. (Vascular also comes with executive function dysfunction and attention deficit earlier than Alzheimer's, and I see both.)

Speech looping is when someone will repeat a word or set of phrases a couple to a few times when their flow of thought is interrupted (say, by noise in the room or an interjection) and when someone will use the same set of stock phrases and stories over and over. Speech looping sounds like someone is a scratched vinyl record.

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Response to politicat (Reply #64)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:19 PM

69. Did not know the name of that

but tis easily recognizable in him...same generalized description of something as " wonderful, or "beautiful"
no matter if he is talking about a plan, or a piece of cake.

He also talks with stock phrases, and does not complete sentences, plus starts speaking about one thing and ends up with a completely different subject.

Do people at whatever stage of whatever he has, do they know there is a problem and thus try to be glib about their verbal mistakes?
Trump never hesitates, he always has an answer, even if it is wrong, he dominates a discussion, bringing it back to self reference and bragging. I was struck when in the news interview, he said he bombed Iraq, the interviewer corrected with "syria" and he just kept going as if he had never made the slip, Normal people show a bit of hesitancy as they process the correction and often make a disarming comment or joke about the mis-speak. He never does.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #69)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 12:24 AM

70. ... Sometimes they know something is wrong, but are usually in deep denial.

Recognizing that all forms of dementia have extremely long leading edges (the retrospective studies are showing up to 25 *years* when their families are queried), and that we're dealing with a narcissist* who seems incapable of recognizing his own fragilities... my bet is he hasn't admitted it to himself.

Glibness and charm often ramp up in the later sub-clinical and early clinical years of dementia, because both are far more emotional than cognitive skills. Using my personal, (influenced by my professional, but distinctly non-professional) experience, when my grandmother started her downward spiral, her social skills dramatically improved even as her organization and executive function diminished. She was sweet, nice, charming... and she used it as a cover for losing her ability to do math, make decisions and navigate her daily needs. Not that she admitted it, and when called on it, would get incredibly defensive, but it was obvious to those watching her.

It's manipulative, but someone who is losing their cognitive function is generally afraid of being found out, so charm offensives are self-protective. Multiply that by someone who doesn't believe he is capable of errors anyway... plus a grotesque sense of entitlement and 70 years without ever being seriously challenged, and well... that's how we end up with an orange guy who thinks that Lhasa Apso on his head looks good.


*used colloquially, not as a diagnosis, and he fails the major test of a personality disorder anyway -- he does not appear troubled by his behavior and does not appear to find it distressing.

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Response to politicat (Reply #64)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 09:32 AM

80. I am certainly no doctor

But what you are saying makes sense to me! My Grandmother slowly died of Alzheimer's and her signs and behaviors were very different from this.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #80)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 09:49 AM

81. No two cases of any dementia are the same.

There are large overlaps, but brains are complex instruments, and by the time the damage to cognition and emotional regulation are damaged enough to classify as *dementia*, those instruments are well used, too. What gets hit is highly variable, and what we notice as damage or recognize as faulty is still highly variable.

Further, social learning, emotional reactivity and regulation, and memory are all different brain functions, so damage to one area may leave the others unaffected. Socialization is one of the oldest, most reinforced behaviors, and that's often the last to go.

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Response to politicat (Reply #64)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 11:14 AM

90. You finally gave me the term I needed: speech looping

Thanks

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:25 PM

4. What is "malignant narcissism"?

Just curious.

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Response to Binders Keepers (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:29 PM

6. There's more at the link.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/neurosagacity/201702/malignant-narcissism-collision-two-personality-disorder



Malignant Narcissism – When Narcissistic & Antisocial Personality Disorders Collide

Narcissistic personality disorder is often equated with the selfie-loving, shallow, boaster that wears on your patience. However, there is significantly more to the condition. Their behavior and mood are often dependent and driven by feedback from their environment; they typically need the message from others to be a positive one. The impression they wish to make and the intense guarding of their fragile self esteem is a strong determinant of their actions and thoughts.

Some narcissists can become stricken with anger, anxiety, depression, shame and so forth if the information they receive does not match their inflated, protected, inner self. From a neuropsychological standpoint, narcissistic personality disorder reflects problems with self and emotion regulation.

People who meet diagnostic criteria can have extremely fragile and fluctuating self esteem. There is a detachment from their true self. The condition often has a negative impact on the lives of people who love or interact with them.

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Response to octoberlib (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:08 PM

25. Thanks for the link. I learned about the brain assessment

studies theyve9done, actually identifying the area of the brain that is deficient in persons lacking empathy, etc.

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Response to Binders Keepers (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:36 PM

8. When your Narcissism hurts others and you feel zero remorse.

In fact, you enjoy it.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #8)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:30 PM

45. Isn't that bordering on, or in fact, also a sociopath? n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #45)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:37 PM

49. Yup - see Octoberlib's link above

I can't fucking believe my Dad fell for this.

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Response to Binders Keepers (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:24 PM

30. It's the older term for Narcissistic Personality Disorder or NPD

It's now placed with other personality disorders like Borderline and Psychopathy. Every time the new DSM comes out, there are changed names for certain things. I still struggle with Sociopathy being lumped in with Psychopathy. I still use the older designations there.

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Response to Binders Keepers (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:57 PM

54. The only known instance of Malignant Narcissism being a good thing:

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:31 PM

7. Would Not Be Surprised

It would not surprise me if after he leaves office his family puts out a statement saying he has Alzheimer's, or Dementia. There are times I think something is mentally wrong with him. At times he does not seem to have all his mental faculties.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:39 PM

9. I think it's very obvious

his language issues, and his memory issues...the thing that comes to mind especially is Trump talking about Abraham Lincoln and saying "he was very intelligent, as most presidents are, and he did a thing that was the thing to do at that time"...like he totally blanked on who Lincoln even was, couldn't remember, had no idea, not "freed the slaves", not "won the Civil War", none of that (and it's hard to imagine any American over the age of 10 or so who wouldn't know those salient facts); the only real explanation for that sort of thing is dementia.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 08:36 AM

73. Kind of reminds me of Spicer's Holocaust comments. I know, different creature, but

thought it extremely odd to not have gas chambers so ingrained in your mind. Normal might be not knowing what year it happened, exactly where it happened, but never that it didn't happen.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:46 PM

10. My mom has Alzheimer's and I'm her primary care provider

I keep thinking Twitler has Louis body dementia rather than Alzheimer's. His difficulty navigating stairs, his refusal to allow the press to see him golf and the unusual way he moves his head while talking just makes me think that.

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:12 PM

28. I like that you've observed and are reporting on this...

Personal experience may not be medical, but it could be accurate.
I believe it's technically called Lewy Body dementia, but my nursing vocabulary in this area may be stale.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #28)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:27 PM

33. You are correct

I didn't think my spelling looked right. Thanks.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #28)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 01:14 PM

107. I'm thinking this too. Mu FIL had LBD.

And it does look much like tRump's symptoms. Eventually, with LBD there can also be frank psychosis.

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:32 PM

46. Yes, he has extremely peculiar body language! n/t

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:02 PM

67. Also could be FTD

Frontotemporal-Dementia

-snip-




The most common signs and symptoms of frontotemporal dementia involve extreme changes in behavior and personality. These include:

Increasingly inappropriate actions
Loss of empathy and other interpersonal skills
Lack of judgment and inhibition
Apathy
Repetitive compulsive behavior
A decline in personal hygiene
Changes in eating habits, predominantly overeating
Oral exploration and consumption of inedible objects
Lack of awareness of thinking or behavioral changes
Speech and language problems

Some subtypes of frontotemporal dementia are marked by the impairment or loss of speech and language difficulties.

Two types of primary progressive aphasia are considered frontotemporal dementia. Primary progressive aphasia is characterized by an increasing difficulty in using and understanding written and spoken language. For example, people may have trouble finding the right word to use in speech or naming objects.

Semantic dementia is one type of primary progressive aphasia. It's also known as semantic variant primary progressive aphasia. Individuals with semantic dementia have prominent difficulty naming (anomia) and may replace a specific word with a more general word such as "it" for pen. They may also lose knowledge of word meaning.


--snip--

Rarer subtypes of frontotemporal dementia are characterized by problems with movement, similar to those associated with Parkinson's disease or amyotrophic lateral sclerosis.

Movement-related signs and symptoms may include:

Tremor
Rigidity
Muscle spasms
Poor coordination
Difficulty swallowing
Muscle weakness


http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/frontotemporal-dementia/home/ovc-20260614

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Response to Blue_Roses (Reply #67)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 09:03 AM

78. Yes it could.

It describes Twitler's behavior much better than Lewy body. I didn't know that much about it. Thanks!

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 08:56 AM

76. Me too.

My dad had this, and I have said many times over the last couple. of years...just pay attention to how he moves. Coupled with his speech patterns and his insistence on digging up "old bones" and harping on old sleights., difficulty sleeping and temper tantrums,..it all fits.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:47 PM

11. I don't buy it. This is the same

jackass that was holding rallies and engaging in debates a mere few months ago. He didn't have Ivanka standing a foot away throughout all of these.

He's a narcissist to the extreme, and possibly a sociopath.

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Response to Sculpin Beauregard (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:55 PM

19. Did you actually see any of the debates?

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:28 PM

34. Yes, and my father has vascular dementia. I am his

am his caregiver. This ain't that.

Why is it so hard to believe he's a garden variety asshole who doesn't know anything outside his lifelong mafia activities? He literally doesn't give a shit about anything that doesn't have to do with him.

No surprise that he shows breathtaking ignorance about literally everything that's not about him.

He's a bullshitter with a much bigger audience, one that's scrutinizing everything now, is all. Who the fuck paid him this much attention ever before in his entire life? Nobody, that's who. This is who he is.

Older, slower and more tired, but this is who he is.

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Response to Sculpin Beauregard (Reply #34)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:48 PM

36. Because he was a hell of a lot more articulate 25 years ago

the degradation of his language skills is pretty noticeable.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #36)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:33 PM

47. Yes, he's almost not the same person today. n/t

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #36)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:53 PM

53. like agatha christie, his vocabulary is shrinking.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #36)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 09:01 PM

56. Yes, this. n/t

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #36)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 09:21 PM

62. "The degradation of his language skills is pretty noticeable."

It sure is.

Not sure what it is he's suffering from, but some neurons etc. DEFINITELY aren't firing properly. His late Klandad Fred had Alzheimer's as we know, so uh ....

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Response to Sculpin Beauregard (Reply #34)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:03 PM

37. But there are over 80 different kinds of dementia.

So not being like your father isn't proof. My mom also had vascular dementia--at least I believe it was--affected by her congestive heart failure. She passed away last year.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:49 PM

12. Agreed. And no one around him will address the matter.


Family, advisors and supporters all have too much to lose at this point. Even IF one family member tried to confront the matter, the fury and pressure to keep quiet would be immense. Perhaps there is unspoken agreement to gamble for time now that he's grabbed the ring.

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Response to JohnnyLib2 (Reply #12)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:47 PM

113. Fooled AGAIN

The gop knew about Reagan's Alzheimers, yet tried to disguise it. Why would ANYONE want a person in the office of the president while being less than fully aware of world issues? Do they enjoy power so much, they put the entire world at risk at the whim of a crazy ass like tRump? Time to enact laws about running for president Must have mental and physical exams by a doctor with no party affiliation. Must release taxes from at least 5 years prior. No family members in office, paid or not.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:49 PM

13. Trump said "George Steinbrenner IS a good friend of mine" yesterday.

Meanwhile ol George has been food for worms for years now.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:51 PM

15. bingo!!! nt

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 09:12 PM

61. And today he said about the late Luciano Pavarotti: "a friend of mine. Great friend." nt

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:52 PM

16. When people post old tapes of him, the difference is very clear

In the old tapes he's still an asshole, but he speaks coherently.

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Response to greymattermom (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:21 PM

42. And he had a better, more facile command of the language in the past than he demonstrates now.

VERY limited language skills and almost ZERO in the vocabulary department.

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Response to calimary (Reply #42)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 11:56 AM

98. Exactly. And his language reflects very narrow

thought processes. He just keeps spinning in the same circles.

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Response to LuckyLib (Reply #98)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 04:18 PM

115. My husband and I have started heckling the TV when he's making some lame-ass statement

about how "incredible" something is. And that's the ONLY adjective he seems to have at his command, to describe something positive. "Amazing", and "great", and "really great" are about it.

So I start mumbling "oh it's incredible and it's incredible and it's really incredible and amazing and incredible and it's great and really great and incredible and amazing and incredible and great and it's incredible and incredible and it's really great and amazing and incredible and it's incredible and it's great and incredible..."

On the negative side, it'd be "horrible" and "terrible" and sometimes "failed" too. An occasional "lousy" and "no good" but otherwise, "terrible" and "horrible" reign supreme as really - well - incredible and great and really great and incredible and amazing and incredible.

Did I remember to add that he falls back on "incredible" a lot?

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Response to greymattermom (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:44 PM

51. Watch this video. I hadn't been willing to speculate before but now?

Quite a few years back I'm sure. Note he doesn't use more sophisticated words nor is it hard to imagine his personality is much the same. But the ability to think and reflect, the thought, the lack of pressure in his speech...I'm beginning to be impressed.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #51)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 01:48 AM

71. Wow...that IS telling.

He is not highly educated, but his ability to analyse the film and use descriptive terms, appropriately, even completing whole sentences containing one coherent thought, ...none of that is showing today.

Today his sentences are incomplete, often, he dos not seem to be able to focus on one idea for more than a minute or two, he rambles often, and tends to use generalizations rather than concrete language about a topic.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #71)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 10:35 AM

88. And there's a tangible sense of connection. These days it's as though no one really exists.

His eyes are hooded now. He seems to be disconnected, performing for something in his head rather than connecting to another person, even an interviewer. It really is striking.

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Response to greymattermom (Reply #16)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 01:04 PM

105. Haberman of NYT been covering Trump for years - this is what she says



http://www.npr.org/2017/04/20/524873266/journalist-describes-the-loneliness-and-leakiness-of-trumps-white-house

On how Trump's way of talking has changed over the years

"His vocabulary was more specific. When he was in an area that he actually knew and understood and had some sort of emotional and intellectual connection to, he was more at ease, and it was reflected in how he would talk. Even now, frankly, when you get him talking about business or you get him talking about real estate, he speaks with much more fluidity than on almost anything else that he's involved with as president.


It's funny — there's a video of him that's been kicking around the Internet for a year now, and it's a video of him in the '90s, I think it was '95, doing a review of Citizen Kane — and he's a big movies guy, Trump. He loves Sunset Boulevard — and one of the reasons he loves Mar-a-Lago is it sort of reminds him of that kind of a movie set and there's a grandeur to it — but he gave this very, very long exposition on his views of Citizen Kane and what "Rosebud" meant and he sounds very different. He sounds much more at ease with the subject matter; the timbre of his voice is different."

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:52 PM

17. Fred Trump had Alzheimer's Disease, right?

I think I read that somewhere.

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Response to bathroommonkey76 (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:54 PM

18. I believe his mother had it as well

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:56 PM

20. I saw Reagan at a public event in his second term.

He was an old man who didn't know where the hell he was or what he was doing there.

His acting skills kicked in for a few moments and he managed to fire off a few sound bites, and that's what they showed on the evening news.

The show must go on...

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Response to hunter (Reply #20)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 10:24 AM

87. Me, too.

And I agree completely. He came to my office and even though I didn't know what Alzheimer's was then, I knew that something was very, very wrong with him.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 06:58 PM

21. Early vascular dementia?

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:01 PM

22. I don't doubt you. He is still guilty

of crimes currently and over the decades

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Response to joet67 (Reply #22)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:04 PM

23. Absolutely. nt

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:06 PM

24. I trust you and I believe you. I thought this was interesting:

One neuroimaging study found those with narcissistic personality disorder to have problems associated with the right anterior insular cortex - a region of the brain suspected to be associated with empathy.

In a 2013 publication, using neuroimaging, researchers from the University of Germany examined the brain patterns of individuals with narcissistic personality disorder. They yielded similar findings to the aforementioned study. The group who met criteria for the condition demonstrated smaller gray matter volume within areas of the brain associated with "emotional empathy" (i.e., anterior insula and the fronto-paralimbic areas).


This came from a link upthread: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/neurosagacity/201702/malignant-narcissism-collision-two-personality-disorders

I didn't know that researchers had found a corresponding area of the brain to actually objectively measure, vs diagnosis based on behavior/speech.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:09 PM

26. frontal temporal dementia?

A little odd perhaps:
http://www.alzheimers.net/2014-05-15/signs-of-frontotemporal-dementia/

Signs and Symptoms of Frontotemporal Dementia
Each case of FTD is different, but the illness generally becomes more distinguishable from other brain conditions as it progresses. Symptoms may occur in clusters, and some may be more prevalent in early or later stages. Here is a list of ten signs of FTD:
Poor judgment
Loss of empathy
Socially inappropriate behavior
Lack of inhibition
Repetitive compulsive behavior
Inability to concentrate or plan
Frequent, abrupt mood changes
Speech difficulties
Problems with balance or movement
Memory loss

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:11 PM

27. I agreed with you, too.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:20 PM

29. Question...If Trump has dementia..than who is running the "Presidency?"

I am open to hear answers ..thanks

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #29)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:24 PM

31. Nobody, it would appear.

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #29)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:30 PM

35. Watch the Daily Show

They have an ongoing skit where they "reveal" who is the current President, based on rankings.

Seriously, though, other than his tweets and signing his name, do you really think they let the orange baby man near anything remotely having to do with the Presidency? Regardless of whether he has Alzheimers, he is not trusted to actually perform as the President and he doesn't protest. He only wanted the fame, not the work.

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #29)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 09:05 PM

58. Ivanka and Jared

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #29)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 01:04 PM

106. Putin? n/t

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 07:26 PM

32. Can you tell if Agent Orange has early dimentia?

actually i wouldn't call it early given the idiot is an unhealthy 70 year-old child.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:07 PM

38. It would be the last thing the WH would admit to, if true.

Just like with Ronnie. The power is there and somebody wants to keep wielding it. I don't know what it would take to remove him for dementia.

Better to pursue the other million things he's done to disqualify himself.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:09 PM

39. These are all really interesting observations.

It is so maddening to me that he is in this position. It is so obvious that how does not have the knowledge or skill to have the power he has. When I hear him speak, I cring.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:14 PM

40. OY!

Thanks for the important info, and thanks for all you do.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:25 PM

43. my late bil had contacts in the ss in the raygun years.

it was clear that he had dementia. everyone in the white house knew it.
the thing is that dementia exaggerates existing personality traits.

my mil had dementia, and everyone missed the early signs because she was just being more her jerk self.

i have no doubt you are correct. the language alone shows that he had just lost it.
and the hovering family nails it for me.
nancy, anyone?

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:25 PM

44. All of us un-trained persons with strong suspicions respect your professional opinion.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:36 PM

48. TBH, I hold out a foolish hope Melania spills the beans so she never has to move to the WH

I think she is repulsed at playing the 1st Lady role and intensely wants to keep Barron out of that fishbowl.

My bets on her

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:43 PM

50. like a bad drunk. a vile AZ patient. oh shit.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:50 PM

52. My mother spotted it in 1982

I couldn't stand to see him or hear him so I changed the channel for 8 years. She was astute enough that I took her word for it. Dementia explained a lot.

I also agree about Dolt45. It's not just that his vocabulary has decreased markedly or that he's not making nearly as much sense as he did just 10 years ago, it's his totally flat affect in most situations, a stonefaced blankness I've seen over and over again in people developing dementia. And it's new.

He's not preoccupied when he does this. He's absent.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 08:58 PM

55. I saw Trump in that interview the day he got in the semi and said 'vroom! vroom!'

(see pic in my signature line).

His responses in that interview were so disjointed I was sure he had dementia of some sort.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 09:04 PM

57. I don't doubt it.

And maybe that's how all the other traitors will try to weasel out of jail time: it's his fault. He was sick and we trusted him.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 09:06 PM

59. I have said all along that he shows early Alzheimer's signs. I noticed it

during the GOP primary and started commenting on it.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 09:07 PM

60. I had the tshirt!

The one with Ronnie looking totally lost and Nancy saying, "Say hello, Ronnie." And he says, "Hello, Ronnie."

Whoever designed that shirt could see it, too.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 09:22 PM

63. This is what burns me

I absolutely agree that The Donald is 'not right' mentally. I tagged him mentally unhinged back in campaign mode, October 2015. He was not funny, I thought. Or merely provocative. He was dangerously unbalanced.

That aside, be it vascular dementia, Alzheimer's, narcissistic personality disorder, whatever. What truly burns me is this: those closest to Trump know of his illness, defect, mental instability. His children certainly. Melania. And yet, they stood by and allowed their father/husband to campaign for the Office of the Presidency. I suspect Melania was pressured to 'go along to get along.' Many of the pictures of Melania look positively tortured. Who knows, maybe she's a great actress. But the children? All this to advance the family business interests and brands.

And Republicans? They were (in the end) willing to support a demented candidate because of . . . their toxic agenda. Ram it through regardless of the compromise they made with their own sense of rightness, patriotism and/or anything related to the truth. The information leaking out regarding Russian collusion, money laundering and mafia ties is appalling, frightening. But, but . . . Hillary's emails, Susan Rice, Obama et al.

Really?

May these traitors burn in hell! May they burn for an eternity.

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #63)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:41 PM

66. PREACH.

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #63)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 08:58 AM

77. +1000

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #63)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 11:52 AM

97. Hell won't be hot enough

But it's entirely possible that the stateless corporatists who are using the U.S. as a profit center will die after making America a failed state -- and so branding them and their hollow souls as "traitors" will be meaningless.

Ivan, after all, is not a senior advisor to serve America but to serve her father. Jared, too, serves not America but Ivanka and Trump through her. Bannon has an agenda -- to destroy the constitution and the values we were taught made us exceptional. So he had to go. However, the rest of the pustules in the cabinet -- Tillerson, DeVos, Carson, Pruitt, Perry, Kelly, Price, Jeffie Sessions -- are onboard with the advice and consent of Bannon, so there you go. Unless any or all of them become baggage dragging down the Trump brand, they will stay. But they all know -- except Rick Perry who remains dumb as a goddam stone, and therefore oblivious -- on which side their bread is buttered. Ivan and Jared will exile anyone who hurts Trump's brand. If they all do what's good for Trump, there will be room for them in the lifeboat when the Ship of State sinks. If not, they'll drown with the rest of us.

God help the wounded Republic!

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #63)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 04:29 PM

117. They allowed him to campaign (certainly thinking it would boost the "brand") but

I don't believe they ever imagined he would get the pResidency. During rallies and debates, without his kids around him to help him process, he pulled off the charade with his limited sound bites. Minimal attempt to learn anything. Then the Comey-Russia-MSM stars collide, and there he is. Now they REALLY have to scramble. They occupy positions in the WH and the other idiots he appoints can help with the propping up. He's a useful idiot to the Republicans (even though I don't think they believed he would win either) and now they just have to pray they can get some stuff done before he destroys the room and has to be ousted.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 10:19 PM

65. k and r nt.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Apr 20, 2017, 11:03 PM

68. Psychiatrists meet at Yale,

claim president is mentally ill

A group of psychiatrists meeting at Yale Thursday says President Donald Trump is so mentally unstable that he's unfit for office.

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Response to moondust (Reply #68)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 08:45 AM

75. Wow.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 08:21 AM

72. I read recently he had front lobe dementia .

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 08:43 AM

74. What is curious to me is his utter lack of intellectual curiosity. I remember thinking, not

as much "when will he start acting presidential"....but "when will he start learning?" After 8 years of Obama who you could feel certain about - that he had studied and learned about the world and the different sides of issues - Trump never has.

Is this part of his narcissism? That he is so perfect he doesn't have to learn anything?

Did you ever watch the Apprentice early on? Of course, it's scripted TV, but his demeanor was so different then - even his speech patterns.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 09:13 AM

79. Yep. Shades of Nancy Reagan in this Melania nudge:

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 10:11 AM

82. I noticed it during a Press conference

Reagan started to say something inappropriate and his Chief of Staff Baker took his arm, spun him around and ushered him off the stage. Reagan looked very bewildered when this took place.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 10:15 AM

83. There was a famous and controversial Doonesbury cartoon series

on that in 1980 .... Roland Hedley in "REAGAN'S BRAIN"

Really got the right agitated.

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #83)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 12:42 PM

102. Reagan was never the brightest bulb

When I watch old videos of him (from the 50s and 60s) he seemed very rigid and set in his ways.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 10:19 AM

84. for that to be true, we would need a past example of more lucid speech and behavior

Trump is what he is.

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Response to yurbud (Reply #84)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 11:06 AM

89. A few days ago, someone posted this video of him

The thread said that the video was from the year 2000. I don't know about you, but I find the contrast in his speaking skills to be striking.
https://m.

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Response to Wednesdays (Reply #89)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 12:53 PM

103. Great example though a couple of caveats:

That's edited, so it could have been assembled from multiple takes.

How scripted was it?

What were the stakes?

It's easy to be calmer and more articulate when you're sitting in a studio doing a video that few might see, and when you probably have some control over what the final product looks like than live when you can't edit after the fact.

Also, he may actually have watched that film and known something about it. Most areas of government policy, especially foreign policy, he appears to be only about as knowledgable as the average Fox News viewer, which means his expertise is a negative number.

None of which is meant as a defense of him.

In some respects, Reagan WITH Alzheimer's was more lucid than Trump at a younger age.

On the other hand, you do see some of his trademarks here: making up for a deficit of vocabulary by repeating simple words for emphasis, and speaking a fair amount without saying very much.

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Response to yurbud (Reply #103)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 01:15 PM

108. Comparing Reagan and Trump speechwise is apples and oranges

Before Hollywood, Reagan worked in radio. Speaking was his craft:

After graduating from Eureka in 1932, Reagan drove himself to Iowa, where he held jobs as an announcer at several stations. He moved to WHO radio in Des Moines as an announcer for Chicago Cubs baseball games. His specialty was creating play-by-play accounts of games using as his source only basic descriptions that the station received by wire as the games were in progress.



Whereas Trump's is a wheeler-dealer.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #108)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 01:26 PM

110. great details. Probably only JFK or Bubba approached that level of skill among modern presidents

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Response to yurbud (Reply #84)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 12:09 PM

99. DTs has courted the tv cameras for decades. He had his own hit show. Remember?

Use the google -- it's all there, year by year.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #99)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 12:41 PM

101. I wasn't defending him--I meant he was never the brightest bulb. As Molly Ivins said of Baby Bush..

He was born on third and thought he hit a triple.

I grew up around some pretty rough rednecks and knew people with his intellect and temperament, but without inherited wealth, they never amounted to anything.

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Response to yurbud (Reply #101)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 12:53 PM

104. Understood

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 10:21 AM

85. When he forgets to go GOLFING on yet ANOTHER weekend then we'll know the truth....n/t

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 10:22 AM

86. 'dangerous mental illness', say psychiatry experts at Yale conference

Mental health experts say President is 'paranoid and delusional'

Donald Trump has a “dangerous mental illness” and is not fit to lead the US, a group of psychiatrists has warned during a conference at Yale University.

Mental health experts claimed the President was “paranoid and delusional”, and said it was their “ethical responsibility” to warn the American public about the “dangers” Mr Trump’s psychological state poses to the country.

Speaking at the conference at Yale’s School of Medicine on Thursday, one of the mental health professionals, Dr John Gartner, a practising psychotherapist who advised psychiatric residents at Johns Hopkins University Medical School, said: “We have an ethical responsibility to warn the public about Donald Trump's dangerous mental illness.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-dangerous-mental-illness-yale-psychiatrist-conference-us-president-unfit-james-gartner-a7694316.html

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Response to HAB911 (Reply #86)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 01:19 PM

109. As a retired RN,

I find this frightening. Doctors, in general, do not diagnose someone who they have not examined personally. That these psychiatrists would risk censure from the AMA is significant, and should not be ignored. I put great stock in what they have to say about Trump's mental status.

From my own experience, I can honestly say that I've cared for people on locked psych wards that didn't exhibit the degree of symptoms Trump does. Hopefully, someone has a tight grip on the "football".

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 11:17 AM

91. When I turned on my iPad I got a popup headline that a bunch of psychiatrists at Yale say he's...

..."dangerously mentally ill." Didn't chase it down, but as soon as I came here, I saw this.

As you say, "gestalt."

His family et al are terribly invested in protecting their power and position via Mad King Donald.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 11:18 AM

92. His supporters don't give a shit...

...even if it were proved, they wouldn't care. After all, "dementia" is one of them Big Words the Lib'rul Media likes to throw around. Donald Trump could eat a rat on live television, drool blood, and roll on the ground shrieking about the messages he gets in his fillings...and his supporters would be talking about how Presidential he is...

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 11:25 AM

93. Re how he appeared to handle more while campaigning

actually being installed as the president* (asterisk a nod to the great Charlie Pierce) has upped his stress level bigly.

We've all seen the ageing effect on previous presidents.

No doubt the sense of being overwhelmed and completely out of his league, + the fact that he's no longer a king in his little golden kingdom controlling everything, has stressed out dump and exacerbated his mental deterioration.

The only sympathy I feel is for this country.





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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 11:32 AM

94. I disagreed with the idea that the psychopath known as Trump had dementia

at first. That was wishful thinking on my part because I wanted him brought to justice. His mental decline seems to be progressing rapidly.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 11:36 AM

95. Mike Pence is studying up on the 25th Amendment.

"Jeepers! I'm gonna be President!"

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 11:50 AM

96. I appreciate your professional insight

I'm not a professional, but the incoherent speech, forgetfulness, and blank gaze convinced me some time ago that Trump is probably suffering from Alzheimers (on top of his already-existing narcissism). My father had non-Alzheimers dementia, and the blank look on Trump's face frequently reminds me of the look on my father's face during the last years of his life. (The difference is that my father was not also a raging narcissist.)

The US has no president right now, because nobody's home.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 12:10 PM

100. I know what you mean. I was young but KNEW something wz wrong w/Reagan in 2nd term.

He couldn't answer questions of the press sometimes. Nancy answered for him.

I think there's something wrong with Trump, too. It's obvious. Just like w/Reagan, I'm not sure WHAT is wrong with him mentally.

You say Alzheimer's? I don't see that, but I'm no expert.

I do see what others see: the extreme narcissism, the break with reality, obsessiveness, focusing on minor details like chocolate cake instead of some huge issue at hand like war, wild allegations of crimes against him (paranoia), etc. Something's wrong with him mentally.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 01:30 PM

111. when it was finally admitted that ronnie had alzheimer's, I called a friend in SoCal and asked her,

"are you and I the only ones who knew he had it when he was governor?" apparently, we were.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 02:15 PM

112. Until there's evidence that distinguishes between dementia...

...and the plain old Trumpish bloviating/bullshitting of a pampered man-baby, I don't think we can tell the difference. Was he ever any sharper, mentally, than he is now? Can we say that with any certainty, given that he's never had to endure the pressure he faces today?

For all his talk of being a smarty, I don't think he's ever been tested, and now he never will be.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 03:59 PM

114. Starting to think that Republicans like their presidents old and docile and demented

to tell them what to do and like their USSC justices as young as they can get them.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 04:24 PM

116. Thanks for posting this, PCIntern

Food for thought (lots of it)

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 05:21 PM

118. Yeah, but that doesn't explain the 63 million people that thought it was a good idea to elect him.

Half of whom would do so again even if they knew he had dementia.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 06:18 PM

119. how many cases of narcissistic personality disorder have you treated?

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Response to kwassa (Reply #119)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 07:43 PM

121. NPD usually doesn't get treated, because people who have it

don't think there's anything wrong with them.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Fri Apr 21, 2017, 07:27 PM

120. Obviously there's something wrong; but, what?

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