Does anyone here on DU feel that we have been or are being

[Lint Head]

trolled by Russians. I've read where they infiltrate and tend to start debate by pretending to agree with the rules and purpose of a website. Then pit people against each other. They will first post agreement to suck you in then turn the debate on it's head.

I feel safer here because we seem to know BS when we see it.

[Warpy]

1. The trolls have been easy to spot

You know, low post count, constant cranking about the primary, demonizing Democrats who dare to disagree. I've had several on my ignore list that I now see are "flagged for review." I doubt they'll last through Monday.

The problem is that we have a few high post count lemmings who seem determined to take up the cry and follow them over the cliff.

I've shitcanned more threads in the past week than I have in any year since I've been here.

So offhand I'd say yes, DU is being trolled. Successfully.

[Cha]

4. "The problem is that we have a few high post count lemmings who seem determined to take up the

cry and follow them over the cliff"

Bull.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. Not bull. Too many get wound up and lose sight of the big picture. . . . nt

[Cha]

24. Prove the personal attacks against our long time members.

"lemmings"? "..primaries.."? What is that?

[JudyM]

44. Defiance of the party's core effort to "come together"

every time Sanders' name comes up.

[Cha]

45. That tells me nothing.

[JudyM]

47. Really. Defiance of our party's agenda includes, of course, sowing reactionary division

against new and old Dems who support Sanders.

[Vesper]

48. I think that all those threads praising Bernie to the stars are rather inflammatory.

Are those the people you speak off? Those seem to be deliberately upsetting people, and the supporters of these threads have a rather harsh, kicking tone that skirts the Tops.

It does not seem as if their aim is to come together, from what we have seen this week, coming together is not on the agenda fir some of these people. Remember that of all the thousands of tickets to these rallies given out, there is a lot of booing of Democrats and the New Democratic leadership, expect Bernie, who does not do a thing to correct this behavior.

Thin skinned people who cannot tolerate reasonable and polite criticism of their "hero" as I gave seen him being called (either here or on Twitter, can't remember) are seeking to cause trouble and are easy to spot. If is not a both sides thing, from what I've seen.

Bernie misstepped badly this week, Democrats are pissed, and we are going to talk about it here on a Democratic site, it's weird for people to get all aggressive and hostile about it when someone brings up legitimate criticism that is happening. The name calling, the attacks on posters etc. that needs to stop, we are better than this, those who come here to harass us are not.

[JudyM]

49. Reasonable and polite criticism would be fine.

Thin skinned, to use your term, would be people who can't tolerate others' expression of appreciation for someone they feel is helping Dems.

Big contrast between expressing appreciation causing an attack, and an attack causing a reaction.

[Vesper]

61. From what I've seen, these are not fine, they result in the same level of

knee jerk reaction. There is simply no tolerance of any criticism of Bernie at all. Well, if they're reacting to someone who is explicitly NOT helping the Dems, those questioning the thin skinned is understandable, no?

Not so much when the "appreciation" is done so to invite divisiveness and those expressing their expression of disgust over someone whose words are undeniable attacks on Dems are literally attacked.

When anything less than praise is considered an attack, one must wonder about the legitimacy of those retaliating so harshly. What else is that but a thin skin?

[ProfessorPlum]

55. there are so many of them, after all

[Vesper]

60. I know, but some people seem to enjoy posting a multiplicity of such inflammatory

threads. For what purpose I do not know, but it's pretty plain what they're doing.

[woodsprite]

17. I'm almost back to pre-primary numbers in my ignore list.

[Warpy]

53. I had weeded mine out for inactive members before this latest spate of trash

Next week sometime, I'll weed the PPRs out. Maybe my numbers will decrease.

Well, until the next onslaught.

[emulatorloo]

41. Fwiw Putin trolls did not attack Bernie. Good article here:

Their target was BoBs and the disaffected etc.

And yes, a few high post count folks fell for the propaganda.

I don't think Putin trolls are attacking Bernie now either.


Major Bernie Sanders backers suspect Russians flooded their social sites with anti-Hillary memes

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/03/sanders-staffers-confirm-that-russian-trolls-were-pushing-anti-hillary-memes-on-social-networks-and-comment-threads/

[Warpy]

52. No, it was more subtle than a frontal assault

and dedicated to trying to split the party. Quite a few of us called them on their shit and they got a little less subtle and that got them flagged.

[beam me up scottie]

57. Agreed.

Now is the time to unite not keep reopening old wounds.

[Drunken Irishman]

2. Yes.

[duncang]

3. Maybe but...

Dipshit donnie hired a on line opinion company during the campaign and still has a contract in place that may also be trolling. Also rw's do troll here also. Personally I think now it has a higher chance of being either of those two then the russians. But I'm sure they are also still here trolling.

[flying-skeleton]

5. Are you sure you can recognize it?

Can everyone?

[bathroommonkey76]

59. They have special powers that other people on here do not have. lol

I know we are being trolled and watched by those dbags from that conservative site. They copy and paste topics on from here onto thei boards- They're real losers.

And I'll call them losers over and over again.

They can go fuck themselves.

So the paranoia is real- Just remember not all members on DU are Democrats.

[Gore1FL]

6. Perhaps, but most of the dissension at DU is between long-time, long-participating, members.

There are, for sure, the new accounts that MIRT has to deal with on more than a few occasions. But none of the discord is particularly new. Even in 2001, though, this site was a collection of the left that didn't always agree on how the Democratic party should work. There have been harsh divisions on everything from Israel policy to gender identity, from gun control to feminism. Dear God, this site's "Moon bombing" thread was a sight to behold. None of this is new. I have a hard time believing that the main participants are all Russian agents.

Why is it so bad now? We had deep divisions going into the election of 2016-- the Democratic party itself, and the microcosm of it that posts here. Unlike the party in general, DU went it a bit differently than the party itself. Instead of healing, there was exiling. Instead of listening, there was shunning. "Observation" has become synonymous with "attack." Despite a pretty substantial popular vote win, we were, for the second time in 16 years handed an electoral loss. Now we are dealing with those divisions in an atmosphere of grief and recriminations. The battle lines are still drawn from last year and people are falling into the old habits.

If Russian trolls are behind the division at DU, they've been doing it from the start.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

13. Troll technique is go early in a thread, trigger stuff & act as a catalyst. Then members

Then members get going and aren't able to let go of minutia and emotion.

Things bog down, animosity between members increases and other discussions don't get much attention.

Troll goal is efficient disruption.

[FakeNoose]

30. Yes thread hijacking is the trolls' favorite tactic

I'm still sort of new on DU so I can't speak with authority on what happens here. So far I've seen nice, well-meaning people who know how to disagree politely and respectfully.

However I was on several other blogs last year where the alt-conservative pro-Trump factions (really they were russian trolls) completely took over with all their dissent and hijacking. Most of the "nice" people got disgusted and left the blog. It seemed to happen wherever the commenting sections were not monitored (edited by the blog owner) and wherever anybody could make anonymous (or alias) comments.

Especially I saw it all over Yahoo commenting sections, which I've left for good. I used to read the Rolling Stone magazine blog which actually has an awesome political column, but their comments section got so out of control last year (Russian trolls) that the editors shut it down. Also I've seen similar attempt on my own local paper the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. PghPG has an online blog that was getting trolled pretty much every day, but enough people complained that the trolls have been dealt with for now.

It seems that on DU if somebody tries to hijack a thread (by starting an argument) enough people react and the person gets ignored by everyone or even banned. It's actually quite effective. Don't allow people to have more than one identity, that seems to be the key. If they get banned as one entity, they can't come back later under another name and try it again.

[AngryAmish]

26. If you think that this site will stop revenge against the perfidious MoonMen

Then stick it in your ear, pal.

[Chevy]

7. Whats going on here is nothing

as compared to the other platforms, especially Twitter no names but someone is getting dragged pretty bad because of recent comments today. Oh an the New York Times Twitter Queens Thrush, and Haberman are getting all barrels to.

[Rhiannon12866]

8. I've always felt pretty safe here, too

Compared to other sites, we have good moderation. MIRT gets the disruptors when they come through the door and the admins are hands on when someone reveals themselves or goes off the rails. And, as you said, not much gets by DUers, either, which makes a big difference.

[democrank]

9. Yes

I'm trying to be more disciplined and not respond to them any more. In my opinion, they've done considerable harm to both DU and the Democratic Party and I don't want to assist them in that effort.

[ananda]

10. It makes me wonder

The Sanders kerfuffle got me thinking about this,
but in the end I had no easy answer...

Except to always keep in mind that 45, rampant
corruption and treason within our own country
is the greatest problem we've ever faced, not any
one imperfect statesperson..

[WePurrsevere]

11. If you find a forum with Democrats all agreeing....

It's fake.

While I'm sure there are trolls from Russia, Freepdumb, etc still trying to stir up stuff I don't see DU being all that terribly different then from before I took a health, etc break for a few years.

IMO trying to get all Democrats to agree on things would be like trying to herd feral cats. If when I returned to DU after a health, etc break for few years the place had been full of calm lockstep members with a hive type mentality I'd have thought the members had all been taken over by the Borg.

[IndianaDave]

14. I wasn't here for the primary. I came across DU when I downloaded Political Nation Left

at the Google Play Store. So I know about the primary conflicts only from references in various posts. But I do believe that every time we have serious conflicts and infighting (NOT valid disagreements and dialog among political allies, which is healthy and productive) we are making the Russians very happy. And it would greatly surprise me if there were not Russian trolls here, trying to sew dissension and stirring the pot to get us at each other's throats.

A strong Democratic Party undermines their objectives - like weakening authentic Western democracy, supporting a strong Europe and NATO, etc. Whatever frustrates and paralyzes us as a political force for justice, equality, and the common good satisfies them and gives them joy.

So, whatever our differences, let's please agree that - because of their basic values - we respect both Hillary AND Bernie; that either of them would be a superior leader, compared to any Republican I can think of. I know that, personally, it hurts me to hear really angry remarks made about either of them.
We can't afford that, and we need to unify under whoever emerges to lead our party in the future.

I also agree with many others who have said that it's essential for us to elect Democratic mayors, governors, state and federal legislators, and so forth. And the stronger our unity becomes, the fewer trolls - Russian or otherwise - will be able to throw us off course. Let's all hang together. For the sake of our beloved country.

And thanks for reading through to the end. I really appreciate it.

[WhiteTara]

43. I think it was Benjamin Franklin who famously said

If we don't all hang together, then surely we will hang separately.

Glad you found DU, BTW

edited to credit true author.

[nikibatts]

15. I really do not care who is trolling. My feelings and opinions are my own and little can be

said here to change them although I may agree or disagree with what is being posted. My years of experience with life and various people informs my judgements...not the Net boards.

[Lint Head]

35. Agreed. The purpose of the troll is to disrupt. To prevent deserning voices

from discussing valid issues

[madokie]

16. When we see it?

Hell I can smell it long before I see it

[Lint Head]

36. I feel the same way but I try not to engage until it becomes obvious.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

18. I think it's perceiving vindication in defeat rather than anything terribly sinister

Hillary Clinton failed, therefore a theoretical Bernie campaign would have been flawless and successful.

One of my friends died of surgical complications a number of years ago, so naturally he would have lived had he not had the surgery.

That of course is ridiculous, but there were factions in his family who blamed his death on a lack of prayer and another that advocated for alternative medicine who could stridently claim that Andrew died because he hadn't accepted the healing power of Jay-sus or because he had high-risk surgery instead of grapefruit juice enemas and carrying around a crystal in a satchel made of capybara testicle or whatever flavor of nonsense his mother's extended family was into.

[Kentonio]

23. You could well be right.

[JTFrog]

19. Yes. A bunch of them left for a while, but now they are back. nt

[betsuni]

20. +1

[ms liberty]

21. We have trolls here, yes. We've always had trolls and trollish behavior.

Some are obvious and quickly get their pizza, and some are just troublemaking assholes who haven't been caught yet.

[The Blue Flower]

22. Yes, and they've been hijacking threads that call them out

I do not click on anything divisive. We don't have to agree on everything to agree that IL Drumpf and his band of weasels, traitors, and thieves must go asap.

[Baitball Blogger]

25. DU was shut down on election night, so I do think that whatever we think about DU, they

think we are a much, much bigger player.

That's what I think. I think.

[Ligyron]

29. Election night was a Rightmare.

I had to keep slapping myself to realize I was actually awake and truly witnessing our destruction as a country.

[Baitball Blogger]

31. Really like watching a train wreck in slow mo.

Putin must have had a stiffy all night.

[moriah]

32. DU has high Google ratings and has gotten more press mentions...

... than FR.

The fact DU was targeted by whoever did that doesn't surprise me.

I also want to make sure people understand my position. As a Hillary supporter in 2008, I mainly felt Hillary was more experienced than President Obama was back then. My only real reason for my primary vote -- she seemed more prepared. This year, it was because it felt like Bernie was focusing too narrowly on issues vs the broad spectrum. Admittedly, the ones he focused on resonate, and my firm belief is that if Hillary had been declared the winner, *many* of Bernie's policies on those topics would have been implemented.

But there's a HUGE difference between disagreeing on which candidate that caucuses with the Democrats we prefer but voting for the one that gets through the primaries, with the focus being on issues and constructive criticism, and actively trashing Democrats and progressives in/running for office.

I don't feel the need to trash Bernie. I wish he'd done some things differently, but I can't say that's not true of nearly every politician.

And one of those things is the late jump on the bandwagon when it comes to a "50 state strategy" -- his explanation for supporting Mello. I wish he hadn't chosen THIS Democrat to support in a 50-state strategy. At least mayors rarely make laws about choice and abortion.

I'm not fond of Senator Bob Casey except for his true Progressive ideals regarding the idea that financial fears shouldn't make a woman who would rather give birth choose abortion and his call for supportive services for pregnant women and early childhood assistance for low-income families -- of course his calls to prevent abortions by providing services AFTER thr pregnancy is over were roundly rejected by the "pro-life" movement. I'm glad he voted against the reinstatement of the Mexico City policy, but his voting record is abysmal regarding choice once a woman is actually pregnant. The fact he voted for cloture on the 2015 bill to limit abortions after 20 weeks to only life, not health or even permanent physical damage to the mother, is appalling to me, though. It's too short of a time from his last anti-choice vote to make me trust him there.

But if I were a Pennsylvania resident and it was a general election against Santorum or someone like him, someone who is far far worse.... yes, I'd hold my nose to keep a more radical forced birther out.

[caroldansen]

27. They try to cause arguments and create negativity

and criticize like republicans do. They try to make you feel bad and cause dissention. Watch out for that.

[Blanks]

28. Part of the Russian hack...

Was the pro-Bernie hackers that used message boards to tear down Hillary. Rachel Maddow has done a couple of segments on it. Between that and the 'progressive voices on RT' there was a chorus of voices on the left about the problems the democrats have, from the very people who should have been promoting democrats.

I think a lot of 'legitimate' democrats were pulled into the pro-Bernie camp and still believe (and keep alive) the anti-Hillary rhetoric.

As long as that's going on, we don't need active Russian hackers because we work against our own best interests. All the 'pro-Bernie/anti-Hillary/democrats have lost their way' talk is destructive to our message.

There's nothing wrong with the democratic message, the only problem is that we can't compete with the simplistic memes that the republicans put out.

There are more issues that we agree with one another than we disagree, and yet we spend all of our time disagreeing.

[Orrex]

33. Nyet.

Er, no.
I mean no. GO AMERICA!

[Wounded Bear]

34. Trolls of all stripes are still here, no doubt...

Russians? Yep, why would they stop just because the '17 election is over? The US is always in election mode.

Trolls gonna troll. Paid trolls gonna get paid.

Everybody around here basically knows to stay on the alert, and alert posts suspected of being trolls. It's a never ending battle.

[LaydeeBug]

37. YAS!!! But we are stronger together, and they HATE us for that. nt

[lunatica]

38. I still get what I need from DU

Incredible wisdom and a lot of knowledge about subjects. I have confidence in my ability to see through any attempt to obfuscate or deter from the DU mission.

[Lint Head]

39. True. I've been here long enough to see when something is out of place

Some trolls are sly but when they get too big for their britches and think they have us cornered they usually expose themselves.

[sarah FAILIN]

40. I wasn't on this many juries even before the election.

They are getting in here and alerting on the most ridiculous things causing problems for anyone that disagrees with their opinion. I think it is the trolls doing all the alerting, but jmo.

[Lint Head]

51. Having done jury several times since the election, I've noticed an increase in alerts that make

me scratch my head

[DFW]

42. I have noticed on other sites a telltale sign

Not so much here, but I don't read anywhere near all posts on DU. But I often see posts on the New York Times or Washington Post letters page that are obvious Russians seeking to cause trouble.

Russian grammar has several conspicuous differences from English, and many Russians, even ones with good English, often make the same mistakes that reflect this. The two main differences are:

Russian has no word for "to be" in the present tense. "My house is red" in Russian comes out as "My house--red." A post with many sentences missing "is" or "are" could well be written by someone whose native language is Russian. That goes, of course, for native speakers of Russian who are NOT trolls, but the content will make it obvious.

Russian has no articles. No "the" or "a." A Russian starting to learn English would frame "The dog has a flea" as "Dog has flea." Articles are completely foreign to them, and they need a long time before they know when to insert them and when not to. A post containing many such omissions could also easily be by a native speaker of Russian. There are many other languages that don't have articles, either, including most non-Indo-European Asian languages, so this is not exclusive to Russian by any means. However, a combination of the two, plus close scrutiny of the content of a post, can often be a good indication of Russian "visitors."

[Lint Head]

50. Yes! I've noticed that myself. Sometimes it's knid o a broken nglish or broken text.

[FSogol]

46. It doesn't have to be Russians. It could be:

1. GOP Opposition Research
2. GOP Think Tanks
3. RW Internet Trolls
4. Dumb ass Conservatives set into a frenzy by Fox and other RW sources, ready to vent their spleens

DU does need to do a better job of ignoring (and banning) the distruptors.

[tazkcmo]

54. If they are

They're wasting their time, imo. There's nobody on the entire internet that can make me believe something that isn't verified by multiple, credible and respected sources.

[Shandris]

56. Yes, absolutely.

Russian and Czech and American and Turkish and Macedonian and... IOW, yes. And no, most don't recognize it at all (except where needed).

Here, have some armament. https://pastebin.com/irj4Fyd5

Also, you should likely be aware of this: trolls work in tandem. If you think you 'found a paid troll', he's the one who is designated to be obvious.

Good luck out there. Lots of people have spent literal millions of dollars this cycle to make sure we're radicalized. Be vigilant of your mind.

[Lint Head]

58. Thank you Shandris!

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

62. Da. No Textsky.