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[Ken Burch]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Ken Burch) on Thu Apr 27, 2017, 03:52 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[dchill]

1. Seems legit.

[Jim Beard]

106. who is Warren Buffett voting for. He is a Democrat that likes to make

money and he is from Omaha.

[Alice11111]

131. He is also pro choice and has given to Planned Parenthood

[Voltaire2]

2. I thought the primaries ended last summer.

[Ken Burch]

5. Me too. But some people are STILL campaigning against Bernie

even though the primaries are over.

The man committed no betrayal.

[JoeOtterbein]

24. You are right KB, we ALL need to accept the fact Hillary lost to Trump. NOT Bernie!

[ehrnst]

66. Bernie might want to check what his consituents think of him right now

Down 12% in approval rating, and up 9% in disapproval rating since September.

[karynnj]

104. Still the highest In the Senate

I assume you must think all the lower ranked Senators must be even more concerned.

[ehrnst]

189. All the Senators topping this list have small, white, primarily rural homogenous populations

Because those small white homogenous primarily populations agree on things way more than diverse populations.

And Bernie is on a downward trend. Leahy is going to pass him by July at this rate.

[uponit7771]

28. Gas lighting doesn't work here, we can read Sanders RECENT statements and still think they're shitty

[ehrnst]

65. +1000 (nt)

[karynnj]

105. Gas lighting is in the running for the most useless fad word. Nt

[uponit7771]

116. Its valid here, people are questioning the ire at Sanders as if there were no unfair bashing of the

... DNC.

There is unfair bashing of the DNC seeing what Sanders DOES NOT say

[Exilednight]

152. Buzzwords and bumpersticker slogans only work the first

time they are used. Anyone who repeats them just shows their lack of depth on a given subject.

My favorite game at work is sitting in meetings and spotting the moron who uses words like "synergy", "outside the box", "amplify" or my favorite to spot the stupid "ideate".

People resort to these words when they have nothing useful to add to the discussion and/or debate, but want to project a sense of knowledge or cleverness. Little do they realise they are doing the opposite.

[karynnj]

157. Yep

Years ago, when I worked for the technical arm of a major company, when a group of us had to attend a meeting led by the Marketing department, someone created a list of buzz words and we voted before hand on which would be used most often. We then all tallied them as they were said by the manager saying them. It was amazing how many times most were used and how one person in particular, a fast track manager who few of us respected, seemed unable to complete a sentence without at least one buzz word.

Afterwards it was funny that we were praised by some these managers for listening and diligently taking notes.

[ehrnst]

190. Gaslighting for the left... (nt)

[zentrum]

40. Yes, they are still campaigning.

It's been quite something over the last two weeks. Thanks for nailing this issue. Mello is not worse than Kaine.

[lapucelle]

203. Kaine has a 100% rating from NARAL

and their statement of strong support for his vice-presidential nomination.

Sanders endorsement of Mello earned a statement of condemnation from NARAL, Mello lied about havng a 100% rating and an endorsement from the pro-choice advocacy group Planned Parenthood Nebraska Voters.

PPNV also disputes Mello's claim that he voted with Planned Parenthood 100% of the time. He voted against their position three times, all abortion related.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/omaha-mayoral-candidate-under-fire-says-he-would-never-do-anything-to-restrict-access-to-reproductive-health-care_us_58f8e868e4b018a9ce590a84

[zentrum]

212. Oh God, okay...

...bring on the Republican candidate.

[lapucelle]

215. I'm disputing the Kaine - Mello

comparison. That particular talking point is is demonstrably false.

[zentrum]

218. I know.

[ehrnst]

64. He's been made outreach director of the Democrats. Last I heard, this board is called

Democratic underground.

If he was simply doing his job as the Independent Senator from VT, he would not be hearing from Democrats about what he is doing in that position.

The fact that he has dropped 12% in his constituent approval rating since September might reflect all that he has been doing on behalf of the DNC.

Is that clearer?

[karynnj]

107. He is still the highest of any Senator in that poll. Nt

[ehrnst]

110. Among his constituents. All the top Senators in that list are from small, very homogenous

white populations, where there's not a lot of diversity, and therefore not a lot to disagree about.

And he's slipping, and Leahy's rising, so I have to wonder why that is.

[karynnj]

115. He is strongest in the most diverse, progressive town in the state

By the way, BOTH of those attributes owe something to him. He was mayor in the late 1980s when hittenton county became a refugee resettlement center aND he was an excellent progressive mayor.

Have you ever been to Burlington or Vermont for that matter?

[Ken Burch]

119. He's the most popular Dem senator in his home state of all.

Nobody to his right on economics would be more popular, or capable of doing anything progressive if elected.

[brush]

117. You're right, the Dem primaries were over months ago but this pro-lifer was...

endorsed this month and Ossoff wasn't.

Huge difference.

[lapucelle]

209. Actually, Sanders also endorsed

Tom Perriello in the VA gubernatorial Democratic primary, another politician with a pro-life record who now has "no recorded stance on abortion" in his On the Issues profile.

Ralph Northam (Perriello's opponent in the primary) received an endorsement from NARAL earlier this week.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/abortion-rights-group-naral-endorses-northam-in-virginia-democratic-primary/2017/03/13/7e6d401c-080d-11e7-b77c-0047d15a24e0_story.html?utm_term=.0facd5c0c49f

[brush]

217. You have nothing to say on his failure to endorse Ossoff for an immediate House seat?

[lapucelle]

219. I've been saying a lot about it on other threads.

I find it very extremely disturbing that he refused to endorse a Democrat over a Republican based on the ridiculous assertion that he didn't know enough about his credentials as a "progressive".

[Alice11111]

132. Burn him at the stake.

[guillaumeb]

3. But Bernie does not have the all important "D" behind his name.

SO he cannot be a "real Democrat" even if his positions on the issues put him firmly in the left-progressive wing of the political spectrum. That lack of a "D" is a sin.

[mac56]

8. Even though he's more of a Democrat

than at least half of her party.

[guillaumeb]

9. Which begs the question of who defines what a Democrat is.

Given that there are no parliamentary type parties in the US, with a defined platform that must be supported, we are left with people being self-defined as Democrats and that self-definition includes people who are against abortion and who do not support Federal funding for abortion.

[ehrnst]

111. In what ways? (nt)

[Cha]

27. That's got npthing to do with it.. it's his divisive

rhetoric. Gratuitously insulting the Democratic Party.

Of course he's not a Dem.. no Democratic Senator would get on the tv all the time and harangue on the Party that's on the Front Lines Fighting against the Fascistrumps.

[guillaumeb]

80. There are many issues that divide Democrats.

Accepting corporate money, abortion access, war, and others. More conservative Democrats like Joe Manchin and Dan Lipinski and Claire McCaskill do not hold the same positions as some very liberal Democrats. But there are points of agreement.

And no matter who he endorses, or what letter is behind his name, Bernie Sanders is firmly in the very liberal camp.

[Cha]

98. BS gets on TV all the time to Insult the Dems.. big

Divider.

[guillaumeb]

100. Some see division, some see needed critical analysis.

I believe that 8 years of steady losses at the State and National levels show the need for criticism and rebuilding the base.

[ehrnst]

113. As with Bernie's statements relegating women's health to a "social issue"

need some critical analysis.

Bernie has slipped in the approval ratings among his constituents, so there might be some room for criticism and rebuilding his support in Vermont, where he was sent to DC to represent their interests.

He's still doing that, in the sense trying to make those interests those of Democratic candidates in other states, which are a bit more diverse than Vermont.

[Cha]

130. The Democrats unity tour fractured into disunity almost immediately after it began. Senator Bernie

Sanders of Vermont refused to say whether Jon Ossoff, the Democratic candidate trying to win a typically Republican district in Georgia while being outspoken in support of abortion rights, counts as a progressive"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/25/opinion/why-abortion-is-an-progressive-economic-issue.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region

[guillaumeb]

169. Given that there can be many possible definitions of what progressive means,

that label means whatever the speaker or listener feels that it means.

[ehrnst]

198. So if Ted Cruz said he was progressive, you would agree?

And certainly Bernie has a very specific litmus test for what he thinks is progressive, and it has to do with how closely they adhere to his opinion.

Many here use that definition.

[lapucelle]

210. Obviously for Our Revolution,

being progressive has little to do with securing and defending basic rights for women.

Both Sanders and Our Revolution have endorsed Tom Perriello over his opponent in the VA Democratic gubernatorial primary.

It didn't bother Our Revolution that Perriello has "no recorded stance" on the abortion issue according to his profile at On the Issues.

The candidate with a pro life record and who now refuses to reveal his position was endorsed nonetheless.

[guillaumeb]

211. Elizabeth Warren also endorsed Perriello.

So, will we see a number of posts discussing Warren's choice?

[lapucelle]

213. I have no problem calling Warren out on both this

and Perriello's second amendment views. Warren has a professional history with Perriello, so she knows he's strong on consumer protection issues, but that's not enough for me.

Northam


Perriello

[ehrnst]

112. Not in terms of social justice issues. (nt)

[guillaumeb]

120. I believe that Sanders ranks the issues differently.

But that does not mean that he dismisses the issues.

[ehrnst]

193. We disagree on the definition of "dismiss."

"Once you get off of the social issues abortion, gay rights, guns and into the economic issues, here is a lot more agreement than the pundits understand." Bernie Sanders, July 9, 2015
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/weekend-with-bernie-sanders-20150709

Get off? "social issues" and not "healthcare and basic employment protections that are integral to any economic justice?"

“These are guys getting hung up on gay marriage issues,” Sanders told Schultz. “They’re getting hung up on abortion issues. And it is time we started focusing on the economic issues that bring us together: Defending Social Security, defending Medicare, making sure that Medicaid is not cut, that veterans’ programs are not cut.” Bernie Sanders 2013

ttp://www.rawstory.com/2013/10/bernie-sanders-tells-ed-schultz-southern-democrats-are-tired-of-being-abandoned-by-the-party/

"Getting hung up?"

Of course if you are someone who supports the criminalization of abortion - against the consensus of all the mainstream medical organizations, well, that might not seem like such a bad thing to "prioritize" lower.

Right?

[pnwmom]

41. Bernie SAYS he's not a Democrat. Why shouldn't we believe him? n/t

[guillaumeb]

81. I am a believer in socialism, and describe myself that way.

But I voted for Clinton in 2016 as the far better candidate. So does my belief in socialism disqualify me from any criticism of what I see as weaknesses in Democratic positions?

Sanders also said he voted for Clinton.

[pnwmom]

92. The post I was responding to was addressing the question of whether Bernie

was a real Democrat.

He doesn't claim to be a real Democrat

What bothers me about him isn't the lack of a D next to his name. It's that much of his "support" of Democrats consists of scolding and disparaging them.

[guillaumeb]

99. I feel that his criticism is intended to be constructive.

My personal view of course.

[pnwmom]

101. That's probably his intention but the effect is more often destructive.It lends to the misperception

that the Dems are as bad as the Rethugs.

[guillaumeb]

102. AN excellent point, and I agree.

I also feel that he allows economics and class analysis to take priority over racism and sexism and all the other things that divide.

[ehrnst]

194. You mean like "dismiss" them as a distraction to the "universal"

issues that directly affect white straight men?

[guillaumeb]

204. Class and economic issues affect everyone.

[ehrnst]

114. No, but it does disqualify you as a Democratic Candidate if you disagree with the platform. (nt)

[guillaumeb]

122. But US parties are NOT parliamentary style parties.

I grew up in a place with a parliamentary system. The official platform is supported by all elected politicians in a parliamentary system. If not, the parties deal with differing members.

[ehrnst]

195. I didn't say that they were.

If Ted Cruz decided to run as a Democrat, would you consider him one?

[guillaumeb]

205. If Cruz had a "D" behind his name, would he be considered one?

[Alice11111]

133. My ideology is Democratic Socialist too. I always vote Dem,

and I'm a hard working member of the Dem Party. Still, I would like to see it be a stronger party and embrace socially humane standards more strongly. Some elected officisls do, and as a whole we are doing much better. The masses are rising up.

[brush]

47. Why didn't he campaign for Ossoff to get an immediate House seat...

instead of campaigning for an obscure mayoral race in Utah?

And people are upset because he could have done both.

Priorities, Mr outreach chairman.

[guillaumeb]

82. I would agree that he could have done both.

Assuming time and energy permitted.

[Kirkwood]

153. Why didn't the DNC? nt

[brush]

155. Who is the outreach chairman?

[Kirkwood]

160. So Bernie decides who the DNC supports and who they don't?

And only him?

Wow. That's some unbelievable power they gave him.

[brush]

164. So you don't think helping Ossoff gain a US House seat falls under the outreach ...

chairman's responsibility but helping in an obscure mayoral race does?

Why not both?

[ehrnst]

196. The selection and omission are definitely deliberate

and say a lot.

[ehrnst]

182. I'll say. Because as Outreach director, he's tasked

with actually bringing people into the party, in a public way.

He accepted the position, and one would like to think that he was serious when he did.

[Demsrule86]

168. Tom Perez went to Georgia in fact and did campaign with Ossoff...

[Kirkwood]

171. We're talking about going before the primary election, not after. nt

[ehrnst]

173. Which primary? (nt)

[treestar]

75. No, the division is the sin

But Nebraska is Nebraska - it's so deep red, no Democrats would ever get elected if we did not give them some space.

[guillaumeb]

83. And the same holds for W. Virginia, and Missouri.

And Sanders seems to be working on a 50 state approach that recognizes that voters in all states are not receptive to the exact same message.

[ehrnst]

199. So why does he rail against Dems with a progressive record that casts a single vote

against an single symbolic amendment that Bernie has declared the test of a progressive?

That's certainly not a 50 state approach.

[guillaumeb]

206. I cannot answer for Sanders. Obviously.

But the 50 state approach recognizes that there is no one single solution that appeals to all.

[ehrnst]

174. Imagine if we extended that sort of understanding to a presidential election

which must, by virtue of the centrality of the office, require "space" that would allow them to encompass messaging to a population far, far, more diverse than someone who represents a small, very white, homogenous population would balk at.

[romanic]

118. Being outside the DNC establishment is also a sin he commited.

[ehrnst]

175. In what way is he "outside the Democratic establishment"?

Not sure what you mean. Please clarify.

[ehrnst]

178. Can you be more specific? (nt)

[musette_sf]

125. Sen Sanders is not a Democrat.

Period, end. He's not and never was a "real Democrat". Fact.

[ehrnst]

180. His current party affiliation is all one needs to believe this.

Despite so much angst at the very idea.

[SirBrockington]

4. The Primary is over

Senator Sanders is one of 48 members of the Democratic caucus along with Biden et al

[Ken Burch]

6. Agreed. Which means that no one should be vilifying the guy any more

or trying to drive him away so he could be replaced by someone more subservient and conservative.

[Demit]

15. No one should criticize him because it might drive him away. To where?

Where would he go? Would he be driven to form his own party? Is that what we're supposed to be afraid of? He might lead his followers, Pied Piper like, away from our two party system? He would blow everything up because he sees criticism as being "vilified"?

[cheapdate]

29. Good grief! He said "vilify" not "criticize".

They are ENTIRELY DIFFERENT WORDS THAT MEAN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS!

The poster to whom you are replying NEVER SAID THAT CRITICISM WAS OFF LIMITS.

Stop making things up.

[Demit]

46. I agree that they are different words. They even have different letters!

But they are not entirely different things. Calm down and unstick your caps key.

[cheapdate]

54. Make honest arguments and I'll unstick the cap-lock. Deal?

Or don't. I don't really care all that much what you do. Twist the meaning however you want. Why not? Everyone else does it.

[ehrnst]

187. But the poster didn't specify that they made a distinction. (nt)

[cheapdate]

216. It was unequivocally a direct reply to the post that preceded it.

And the poster shifted the argument from 'don't vilify' to 'don't criticize.' It wasn't exactly subtle.

There's kind-of an informal "rule" in good-spirited debate to stay true to your opponent's arguments as best as you can and not twist or distort them. When you recap your opponent's argument for the purpose of rebutting it you should stay true to the argument as it was given.

Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

[moriah]

97. There is a difference between "vilifying" and legitimate criticism.

You can look at my posts to see the difference. I just called out someone's suggestion that Bernie saying using threats of violence to suppress speech is a "sign of intellectual weakness" was in any way defending Ann Coulter herself.

-----

But there IS a difference between people like Kaine, who have never voted for anti-choice measures (and as governor did allow the "Choose Life" plates in VA but said he believed state law required it and would also require a "Trust Women" plate benefiting Planned Parenthood if proposed by the 350 individuals required) and Mello in the Nebraska Senate and Bob Casey in the US Senate from PA.

Casey did vote to avoid reinstating the "Mexico City" policy and has said he will defend Planned Parenthood, but he voted for cloture on an attempted 20-week abortion ban with only a life, not a health or even a "permanent damage" exception. Even though Casey knew there were enough votes to keep the bill from passing and that Obama would veto it if it ever hit his desk, he still used the opportunity to cast an anti-choice vote. Kaine voted against cloture, and has said repeatedly he wants both life and health exceptions in the 2nd half of the second trimester and beyond.

Fortunately as a mayor, Mello won't have a chance to do much related to abortion. That's the only reason I am okay with the DNC *or* Bernie supporting him until he at least states that he won't be co-sponsoring anti-choice legislation.

The question is what do we do if someone like Casey -- put up because the alternative in that seat is going to be rabidly anti-choice like Santorum -- won't toe the line and confine his attempts to show his personal beliefs to bills that won't go anywhere from here on out.

There are certain things that can't be compromised on.

[ehrnst]

185. I don't think that critiquing him on his current job is "vilifying" or 'refighting the primary:

Ya think?

I think that Bernie can take it...

However, his constituents might be losing patience. He's down 12% among Vermont voters, and up 9% in his disapproval rating since last September.

Leahy is neck and neck with him now, so maybe Vermont is wearing thin on all the other stuff he's doing for a party that he didn't run under when they elected him.

https://morningconsult.com/senate-rankings-april-2017/

[karynnj]

108. Biden is not in the Senate. Nt

[ehrnst]

186. Biden isn't VP or Senator anymore as of January. (nt)

[dsc]

7. you have posted this several times and each time it has been pointed out to be inaccurate

it is hard at this point to believe these are good faith errors. Kaine didn't restrict abortion, Mello did. You can tell all kinds of falsehoods in this regard but they are still false.

[dsc]

17. So you would accept that logic on banning a minimum wage

or giving billions to some banker. that is horseshit. He voted for a ban on abortion after 20 weeks. I don't care if he did so on Mars or if his was the deciding vote or one of a margin of 1000.

[Ken Burch]

18. What matters is that Bernie didn't endorse Mello when the guy was doing those things.

Last edited Mon Apr 24, 2017, 04:42 AM - Edit history (2)

He endorsed Mello NOW...in a race where no candidate who filed had ALWAYS been unambiguously pro-choice and when the only opponent is a Neanderthal.

Refusing to endorse Melo would not have served the pro-choice cause. Mello wasn't going to withdraw and be replaced by someone else.

[dsc]

19. I have no problem with him endorsing Mello

if he had also endorsed Ossoff. But he didn't. Instead he left him to twist in the wind and endorsed Mello.

[uponit7771]

26. +1, I don't like the ideological purism except when it comes to social issues folk. If Mello looked

... at a dollar from a banker I bet he'd be thrown under the bus and backed up on by the holier than thous.

[Demsrule86]

94. Mello voted for a law that denied insurance for abortion, and a 20 week ban...so

he was actively anti-choice.

"Mello is a sponsor of the final version of a 20-week abortion ban approved by the governor in 2010, and cast anti-choice votes in favor of requiring physicians to be physically present for an abortion in order to impede access to telemedicine abortion care, and a law banning insurance plans in the state from covering abortions. He was endorsed in 2010 by anti-choice group Nebraska Right to Life."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/omaha-mayoral-candidate-under-fire-says-he-would-never-do-anything-to-restrict-access-to-reproductive-health-care_us_58f8e868e4b018a9ce590a84

[ehrnst]

188. So now, Bernie is OK with things that people voted for in the past?

How about the Iraq war resolution, or stuff that a FLOTUS supported back in the 90's, because that would be HUGE!

[ehrnst]

67. Oh, so, if he had made a protest vote wouldn't have made a difference?

Wow. And here I thought that the Iraq Resolution vote required a protest vote from any True Progressive.

[Demsrule86]

72. What about this?

"Mello is a sponsor of the final version of a 20-week abortion ban approved by the governor in 2010, and cast anti-choice votes in favor of requiring physicians to be physically present for an abortion in order to impede access to telemedicine abortion care, and a law banning insurance plans in the state from covering abortions. He was endorsed in 2010 by anti-choice group Nebraska Right to Life."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/omaha-mayoral-candidate-under-fire-says-he-would-never-do-anything-to-restrict-access-to-reproductive-health-care_us_58f8e868e4b018a9ce590a84

Also, about the Ultrasound bill..."Sen. Heath Mello, a Democrat who said he opposes abortion, signed on as a co-sponsor, calling the measure a “positive first step to reducing the number of abortions in Nebraska.”

http://journalstar.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/states-may-require-ultrasound-before-abortion/article_3e406d52-1489-5adf-b16c-c627a48ac03e.html

[Eliot Rosewater]

103. Yes, you are right. This is a TERRIBLE candidate, and look who is endorsing him

and may make it impossible for voters to vote for anyone but Bernie's choice or a republican.


I have been trying to explain this elsewhere but I am doing it poorly, apparently.

[ehrnst]

197. It's the selection and deliberate omission in who earns the blessing of "progressive"

and who does not.

[Demsrule86]

95. Yes he did actually vote to restrict choice.

The link I provide will take you to the excerpt below where you can click on certain words and NE voting document pop up.


"Mello is a sponsor of the final version of a 20-week abortion ban approved by the governor in 2010, and cast anti-choice votes in favor of requiring physicians to be physically present for an abortion in order to impede access to telemedicine abortion care, and a law banning insurance plans in the state from covering abortions. He was endorsed in 2010 by anti-choice group Nebraska Right to Life."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/omaha-mayoral-candidate-under-fire-says-he-would-never-do-anything-to-restrict-access-to-reproductive-health-care_us_58f8e868e4b018a9ce590a84

[Demsrule86]

109. He voted for a 20 week ban. That is a deal breaker.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

37. +1

[Cane4Dems]

11. not representing truth

have you actually researched what Kaine's position is and what melo's is?

[ehrnst]

192. Clearly not. (nt)

[sheshe2]

12. Not factual.

Stop it!

[sheshe2]

14. Well....

No betrayal. No one thrown under the bus.

Perhaps you should ask a woman.

Seriously Ken, I do not need you to explain to me my rights or feelings. I am not a stupid woman and here you explain to me why I should not feel betrayed. Sorry Ken, My Body, MY CHOICE.

FYI...Bus meet woman. Boom, under you go.

[Ken Burch]

20. There were two candidates in this race.

The person Bernie endorsed and a Republican who was massively worse. Melo said he would defend choice as mayor. No one who had been unambiguously pro-choice from the start had even filed for the race.

How is this different than Hillary having Bob Casey speak for her as a surrogate(or the DSCC essentially imposing Casey as the US Senate nominee in PA the year he was elected?

[sheshe2]

22. First of all

Why all this money and time over a mayors race when we have a good chance to win a Congressional seat?

As for Mello...and it is Mello not Melo Ken. He said he would defend choice?????????????????? He flipped his opinion and he sure as hell can flip it back again.

I call bull pucky.

As I stated elsewhere...Anti-Abortion is a far cry from Anti-Choice.

[rpannier]

31. I called Mello's campaign office

A very nice person answered. I asked if Mello requested Sanders' help. She said she thought he did
The person I spoke to in Jon Ossoff's office was uncertain if the campaign had asked Sen Sanders to campaign for him
That could be the reason why he didn't show in Georgia

Curious, will you support Sen Heitkamp and Sen Manchin if they're the Party nominees for their states next year? Both of them are anti-abortion, members of Democrats for Life, support the Hyde Amendment and were vocally critical of the Party platform last summer in regards to the Party's platform position

[sheshe2]

36. Happy to say that voting for them is not a 'choice'

I have to make. I am from MA.

Question, they are anti abortion, or are they anti choice?...that is the real question.

Not sure what I would do with Sen Heitkamp and Sen Manchin if I had to vote. Need to research it more, I have no intention of making a knee jerk response. Yet I do not believe anyone that represents the Democratic party should go out of their way to vigorously campaign for them.

Mello/ Ossoff....why is a mayors race far more important that a Congressional seat? As for being asked...the outreach person for Democrats has to be asked? I thought he spoke, as Dean did of a 50 state strategy.

[rpannier]

38. How very nuanced of you

I agree with you.
I don't like either Heitkamp or Manchin; I don't like their energy policies, their support of the Hyde Amendment, etc. I am also not a Casey supporter
If I were in those states I'd have a difficult decision to make in the General Election
I do think the outreach needs to be at Ossoff's campaign and Quist's and whomever else is out there to reach out to people who should be voting Democratic.
I disagreed with the Party staying out of Kansas as they did. I don't get this play safe thing. If they're afraid of ramping up the Republicans in some district, they could have sent Manchin to campaign in Kansas; my understanding is he is part of the outreach team. He would probably appeal to the voters in that district. And if he didn't because he's too Republican-like, then send someone else who is more in tune. I can'rt believe the Party has no one.
If Mello wins, I'm not going to jump up and down. If he loses, whatever. I'm more fixated on Quist's special election in Montana (though I don't live there). I send money and am trying to see if I can fit a couple of days in going there to help out

Have a good evening

[Alice11111]

135. !!!

[Omaha Steve]

140. Bernie said Jane Kleeb NE D party chair called him

Jane also runs Bold Nebraska fighting the Keystone XXL pipeline.

http://boldnebraska.org/

[rpannier]

141. not doubting it

Just saying that is what the woman in the office told me. Quite likely they both did

[Ken Burch]

49. I agree we shouldn't be dwelling on the Omaha mayor's race.

The only reason it's being dwelled on is that some people are using this as another excuse to treat everybody who thinks economic justice matters as much as things like choice and LGBTQ rights.

Bernie endorsed the most pro-choice person IN THAT RACE. He didn't endorse Mello over somebody who was MORE pro-choice. Nobody who was stronger on that had even filed for this.

I agree that we need to fight for all the open congressional seats.

[ehrnst]

70. I agree that it is being used as a catalyst

for people to come down on either the side of Bernie deciding what "progressive" means, or keeping the party definition of what "progressive" means.

And I think that was intentional.

[Demsrule86]

73. There can be no economic justice without

social justice...you do know that women and people of color make considerably less than white men in general right? Who deserves economic justice? I say everyone including women and people of color.

[Ken Burch]

138. I AGREE with you that there can be no economic justice WITHOUT social justice.

Equally, there can be no social justice without economic justice.

Let's talk about how we create a program that backs justice for the majority, that acknowledges that there are different levels of suffering and oppression, but that the majority of people have been done badly by in various ways.

[ehrnst]

151. I wish that was the actual thinking, but the reality is, when you say

"Once you get off of the social issues abortion, gay rights, guns and into the economic issues, there is a lot more agreement than the pundits understand,"

you are dismissing the levels of economic suffering of people who are losing their job or because they are gay, or a woman who will not be able to bring a pregnancy to term and care for her family.

"Get off" doesn't indicate an "equal" concern about those life and death matters. I think that statment is defaulting to the white straight male view as "universal."

[Ken Burch]

170. I'm not dismissing any of that myself.

n/t.

[Alice11111]

136. Nebraska has a split electoral system. In 2008, we got 1 blue vote

From Omaha/Lincoln. Since then, the Repub legislature split them up...one for Lincoln and 1 for Omaha. Until the Comey stunt, it looked close for the Dems to take both of those, though not the rural areas. Taking the Mayor could help the Dems in future elections, because the Omaha area and Lincoln area are pretty liberal swing areas. At least Bernie is making an effort that could have a big impact on future races...other than just the Mayoral.

As someone said above, couldn't the Dems even lift a finger in Kansas. Until Rachael Maddow called them out, they ignored Georgia too. You would think they might have learned something from Wisconsin and Michigan.
Sorry, but I think the only way our party gets better and grows is we learn from our mistakes. This blind 3 silly monkeys, never speak up, position is self destructive.

[ehrnst]

172. We do need to understand what the actual mistakes were before

we can learn from them.

I'm really concerned that isn't happening, and there are people who are using the resistance to build their brand rather than the other way around.

[Exilednight]

158. I'll answer one of your questions.

You asked "Why all this money and time over a mayors race when we have a good chance to win a Congressional seat?"

The overwhelming majority of political decisions that affect your life are made at the local level. Those local level decisions can have major national implications.

A great example is public school textbooks. Since Texas has the largest public school system in the country they set the standard for what goes inside textbooks across the nation.

Another reason is control of federal government. Most court appointees are found on the local and state levels. There are over 30,000 state elected (that number doesn't include local municipal or county judges) appointed judges throughout the country. On the federal level there are less than 3000.

Like most jobs, judges come up through the ranks by serving on local and state benches. If we keep conceding, like we have been, local elections to Republicans, then we can look forward to even more conservative judges.

[ehrnst]

68. So, why did Bernie choose this particular race and not the GA 6 to draw attention to?

particularly seeing Ossoff had way more progressive record, and is a much more consequential race nationally?

And why has Bernie refused to call Ossoff a progressive?

It seems as though Bernie is trying to establish the idea that he is the arbiter of what is progressive, and it doesn't have to do with "identity politics," and is encouraging Democrats to align and divide along that line.

[Demsrule86]

96. Jane Kleeb from Our Revolution is the chair of the Nebraska Democratic party.

This is why in my opinion.

[ehrnst]

143. Ah, the one who went on about how we can have pro-forced birth Democrats..

[Demsrule86]

146. That is the one.

She has said as has Nina Turner that economic populism is the issue that needs to be used in determining progressive bonafides...social justice...not so much.


“Every single Democrat is not necessarily pro-choice,” said Nina Turner, a former Ohio state senator from Cleveland and an ally of Mr. Sanders. “And Democrats need to understand that, and not vilify people because of it.”

Holding up her city’s mix of African-Americans and heavily Catholic descendants of eastern Europeans, Ms. Turner said economic justice bound Democrats together. “I was raised in the black church, and my momma would probably be rolling over in her grave over how I stood up for reproductive health because I was raised a different way,” she said.

Jane Kleeb, the Nebraska Democratic Party chairwoman, helped organize the event for Mr. Mello and has since come under attack for saying that Democrats were “pro-life” and “pro-choice.” She offered no apology.

“If the abortion rights groups are truly serious about cross-issue organizing,” she said, “they should know the foundation of that has to be economic issues.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/21/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democrats-nebraska.html

[ehrnst]

150. They are equating "pro-choice" with "pro-abortion," and "pro-life" with a moral stance

There are many, many Dems who would never have an abortion, nor would approve of it morally. But they do not take the "pro-life" political stance.

The "pro-life" stance means you support criminalizing abortion.

If you think that abortion should not be criminalized, you are "pro-choice." Period.

If you vote for restricting access to abortion, you are anti-choice, and anti-medical science.

Dem candidates should not ignore medical science in their votes any more than they ignore climate science.

A few misguided souls here tried to say that Tim Kaine was a "pro-life" politician, because he said he had moral conflicts with it as a catholic, but he has always VOTED pro-choice.

[Demsrule86]

154. Yes which is why I looked at the voting records of both Mello and Perriello (VA Governor's race)

both are anti-choice base on that.

[ehrnst]

156. And interestingly enough Perriello "the true progressive" is taking dark money

Which has also apparently been deemed as "flexible" since tit's demonization 2016....


https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028975412

[Demsrule86]

161. I know...everything that the former party Purists complained about ...Perriello does...but for

some reason... he is endorsed by them.

[ehrnst]

162. And with anti-choice votes on his record, but still strongly endorsed. (nt)

[Ken Burch]

137. I don't know why Bernie made the choices that he made there.

n/t.

[Omaha Steve]

142. will energize progressives and encourage strong candidates to run in 2018

https://www.thenation.com/article/why-was-heath-mello-thrown-under-the-bus/

 Mello, who finished three points behind Republican incumbent Jean Stothert in the five-way, nonpartisan primary on April 4, has been attracting national attention—and support—from progressives for months now. Our Revolution first endorsed Mello on March 9 as one of two dozen candidates the group is backing in 2017. Daily Kos jumped in after the primary, pointing out that in addition to offering the chance to flip City Hall (Omaha makes up most of Nebraska’s Second Congressional District, which the Democrats lost by just over one point), “a good showing” in the race “will energize progressives and encourage strong candidates to run” in 2018.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

129. Why was Bernie compelled to say something about a mayoral race in NE?

He's from VT. Seems kind of weird to me. He didn't have to open his mouth up about this one at all. I've never even heard of US senators endorsing mayoral candidates in their home state. I haven't noticed in Maine. It doesn't seem normal.

US senate is totally different from city mayoral races. We're talking about the difference between local, state, and federal government. US senators is federal government. We are all US citizens so the federal level races will be of interest to everyone in that these people will make decisions for all Americans while representing their state. Plus being that both Hillary and Bernie have been US senators, they would both know a lot about it. It makes sense to make those recommendations. Now making endorsements for state and local government races where you don't even live seems like needless meddling to me. I know Mainers really don't like out-of-staters commenting on their state and local elections. I don't know how people in Omaha, NE typically feel about it.

[ehrnst]

191. So where was Bernie in the Ossoff race, rather than pointedly refusing to call him a progressive.

Perhaps testing the waters as to how much "discussion" it would inspire between his fans and those that think women's health care is more than simply a "social issue?"

[Ken Burch]

208. I honestly don't know what he was thinking there.

What I'm getting at is that, Bernie aside, we should all be working for BOTH justice struggles.

Someday soon, we need to get there.

But I hear what you are saying.

[boston bean]

16. No it was not identical and you know that.

[Ken Burch]

48. There were many much more pro-choice people HRC could have put on the ticket.

than Kaine.

And Melo has made it clear that he will not work to restrict choice as mayor.

[Cha]

50. "Tim Kaine is pro-choice, not pro-death"

snip//

My understanding is that what Kaine is supporting is the right of a woman to choose whether or not to carry that embryo to term. This should be a private decision between a woman and her doctor, and Kaine has rightly assessed that neither the state nor the church should be involved in it.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/readersreact/la-ol-le-tim-kaine-abortion-20161008-snap-story.html

Mello is "Aggressively Anti-choice" and BS calls him a "progressive" but wouldn't lift a hand to support Pro Choice, Jon Ossoff on Election Day in Georgia..

Sanders voiced his support for Mello in a statement published Wednesday by the Wall Street Journal. “If this fellow wins in Nebraska, that would be a shot across the board, that in a state like Nebraska a progressive Democrat can win, that will give hope to folks in other conservative states that perhaps they can win as well,” he said.

Why Is the DNC Embracing an Aggressively Anti-Choice Democrat

snip//

He was endorsed in 2010 by anti-choice group Nebraska Right to Life.

Heath Mello has sponsored a range of anti-choice measures, including a 20-week abortion ban.

Heath Mello is a sponsor of the final version of a 20-week abortion ban approved by the governor in 2010, and cast anti-choice votes in favor of requiring physicians to be physically present for an abortion in order to impede access to telemedicine abortion care, and a law banning insurance plans in the state from covering abortions.

snip// Dkos pulls their endorsement of Heath Mello

The Daily Kos, which describes itself as “a news organization, community, and activist hub,” pulled its endorsement of Mello after revelations about the Democrat’s stance on abortion. The site said it had been unaware of Mello’s anti-choice stance, but that “as soon as we learned this information, we withdrew our endorsement, because this legislation clearly runs contrary to Daily Kos’ deepest values, including our support for women’s reproductive rights and our staunch opposition to laws that in any way impede women’s access to reproductive health care.”

https://rewire.news/article/2017/04/20/why-is-dnc-embracing-aggressively-anti-choice-democrat/

[Ken Burch]

53. Mello has pledged that, as mayor, he will effectively defend choice.

People seem to think Bernie endorsed Mello against someone who was MORE pro-choice. There was never any such candidate in this race.

[Cha]

56. Omaha Mayoral Candidate Under Fire For Anti-Choice Past Vows To Protect Reproductive Rights

snip//

Mello co-sponsored a bill in 2009 requiring women to be informed that they could see an ultrasound before having an abortion, a move that national groups appeared to be unaware of until just now. Rewire reports further:

Mello is a sponsor of the final version of a 20-week abortion ban approved by the governor in 2010, and cast anti-choice votes in favor of requiring physicians to be physically present for an abortion in order to impede access to telemedicine abortion care, and a law banning insurance plans in the state from covering abortions. He was endorsed in 2010 by anti-choice group Nebraska

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/omaha-mayoral-candidate-under-fire-says-he-would-never-do-anything-to-restrict-access-to-reproductive-health-care_us_58f8e868e4b018a9ce590a84?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009


All this Backlash, against Mello, from us Women is Working. .. no thanks to you and those spreading false information about Senator Tim Kaine and protecting Mello at all costs.

[Ken Burch]

57. You could have done all that without accusing Bernie of selling you out.

and without reviving the myth that the economic justice movement is your enemy.

[Cha]

58. Women's BackLash, Against Mello, Worked!

[ehrnst]

71. This was all set in motion by Bernie's selective endorsements

and Bernie has stated that "identity politics" - which is social justice concerns - are secondary to economic issues that affect white working class men.

So, Bernie's definition of economic justice seems to be narrower than the traditional definition, which acknowledges and acts on the huge role that racism and sexism play out in economics.

Also, Bernie seems convinced that when white men are happy with more wage equity and affordable health care (single payer - NOTHING ELSE), then nationalism and bigotry will just resolve - despite what we see in Europe.

http://www.vox.com/world/2017/3/13/14698812/bernie-trump-corbyn-left-wing-populism

[Demsrule86]

74. I do consider it a sell out of women's rights.

[ehrnst]

200. But it's the deliberate refusal to call Ossoff progressive, in a race that is far more

consequential, with a candidate that is far more progressive in those mere "social issues" of women's health that Bernie thinks are so distracting.

I wonder if it's because Planned Parenthood praised Ossoff, that Bernie wouldn't say he was progressive.

[Ken Burch]

207. OK, I think he should have and should still call Ossoff progressive

You're right on that.

[ehrnst]

69. Actually, Kaine got a 100% from NARAL

So, no, there is not much more pro-choice cred than that.

His voting record was always pro-choice.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/288952-pro-abortion-rights-group-give-kaine-nod-of-approval

Is that clearer?

[Arazi]

21. Yup. Thank You eom

[Me.]

23. Wow... 3 Threads On The Same Subject In A Matter Of Hours

What's the agenda?

[SCantiGOP]

25. I know

Why is this suddenly all that is being talked about? Give it a rest people.

[Me.]

34. By The Same Poster No Less

[ehrnst]

144. I know, right? Because DU rules specify sharing only one article on a topic per member

Good GAWD, have you seen all the posts on Ivanka in Berlin???

[rpannier]

32. Probably because this topic became the issue du joir for like 3 days in a row

on why Sanders is so terrible

[Me.]

159. I Get That

But 3 threads in as many hours?

[ehrnst]

201. ERMEGERD - did you see all the Ivanka in Berlin posts in as many hours????

AWFUL, right?

[Me.]

202. Totally

But were they by the same person, as these were?

Though she's pretty awful so I guess you could say she started the awful trend.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

45. Defense of alt left hero.

[LostinRed]

30. Bernie Sanders is not a democrat

Who cares who he endorses. This is the billionth thread on this subject.

[rpannier]

33. And I am guessing, this will go on for another billion

Until the Montana special election comes up and Rob Quist's campaign is in the spotlight and then back to Georgia
There's a group here who finds fault in everything and they'll keep it alive forever

[dae]

42. Saw the vid clip of Tom Perez shouting Bernie, Bernie, Bernie? Guess

the anti-Berners will want his head now.

[JudyM]

78. Perhaps some background might soften your view... perhaps not. This is being left out of the

narrative here:

“If you have a rally in which you have the labor movement, and the environmentalists, and Native Americans, and the African American community, and the Latino community coming together, saying, ‘We want this guy to become our next mayor,’ should I reject going there to Omaha? I don’t think so.”

[murielm99]

35. How many times are you going to sum up

this erroneous assertion?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

44. How many times does it take to make a lie into a reality

That many times I would guess

[pnwmom]

39. That is FALSE and you know it. Tim Kaine has never taken these positions:

Mello co-sponsored a bill in 2009 requiring women to be informed that they could see an ultrasound before having an abortion, a move that national groups appeared to be unaware of until just now. Rewire reports further:

Mello is a sponsor of the final version of a 20-week abortion ban approved by the governor in 2010, and cast anti-choice votes in favor of requiring physicians to be physically present for an abortion in order to impede access to telemedicine abortion care, and a law banning insurance plans in the state from covering abortions. He was endorsed in 2010 by anti-choice group Nebraska Right to Life.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/omaha-mayoral-candidate-under-fire-says-he-would-never-do-anything-to-restrict-access-to-reproductive-health-care_us_58f8e868e4b018a9ce590a84

[La Lioness Priyanka]

43. Some people will lie through their teeth to defend their hero

And then claim to be an ally to women and poc.

[chillfactor]

52. good god...

can we get off the topic of bernie already...I am sick about hearing about him again, and again,and again on DU.

[fleabiscuit]

55. And next...

"Al Giordano? @AlGiordano
And next they say, "YOU got the wrong candidate the nomination." Well, if we have that kind of power, shouldn't they be winning *us* over?"

[emulatorloo]

59. Kaine has a solid pro-choice voting record. Mello does not.

I wish you would let go of this false equivalency you've made between Kaine and Mello in order to defend Bernie. .

Bernie's a tough guy, he can defend himself. Especially when it comes to the endorsements he makes.

[LovingA2andMI]

60. Tim Kaine had the same positions as the Candidate for Mayor of Omaha in some matters...

WOW! Wonder where all the Tim Kaine threads are? Oh, he's not Bernie so....

[La Lioness Priyanka]

61. Yeah. Or people are lying about tim Kaine

But some people love lies in defense of their heroes

[ehrnst]

63. Not on women. Tim Kaine never voted against women - he got 100% from NARAL.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/288952-pro-abortion-rights-group-give-kaine-nod-of-approval

Is that clearer?

[emulatorloo]

76. Kaine has a solid pro-choice voting record. Mello doesn't

Saying Mello and Kaine are the same is a false equivalency.

There has got to be a way to defend Bernie with smearing and lying about other Democrats.

Better yet, Bernie's perfectly capable of defending himself.

[LovingA2andMI]

79. Yes....Bernie Is Capable of Defending Himself...

And making the Choice to support who he wants or decides not to do so. It appears SOME are upset with Bernie because he did not openly support THEIR candidate of choice to support another candidate it's likely few even know -- since said candidate is running for a Mayor's position in Omaha, NE (like a Mayor in Omaha, NE will make policy on Pro-Choice Policy -- usually Mayor's deal with municipalities issues more so ((ALWAYS)) then Pro-Choice Policy).....

However, still, SOME are upset with Bernie because of his support of a candidate he chooses to support. Interesting....

Yet, SOME were not worried in the least about Tim Kaine's (a Senator who can have a vote on Pro-Choice Policies in the Senate) former stance on Pro-Life policies. Now, if Kaine has seen the light with his former alignment with Pro-Life policies, to vote in agreement for Pro-Choice policies, that is great considering his elected position actually can deal with these types of policies up close and personal.

But, a Mayor of a Town in Nebraska -- not so much.

[emulatorloo]

84. I would vote for Mello if I lived in Omaha. But I don't need to misrepresent Kaine's voting record.

Bernie's not doing that. He's explained his endorsement very well.

He's not drawing false equivalencies between Kaine and Mello like some are here. Because that's not who Bernie is.

I certainly agree with you about the responsibilies of Mayor vs congressperson. To tell you the truth I'm not sure why the DNC is mucking around in a mayoral race.

[LovingA2andMI]

85. Was Tim Kaine PREVIOUSLY....

Pro-Life or not? Yes or No. Did he change his position and voting record later on Pro-Life Issues? Yes or No.

Yes or No is all that is required to answer the questions above.

[emulatorloo]

86. He's got a 100% rating from Naral. He has a solid Pro-choice record, Mello doesn't.

False equivalencies are false.

Mello's apparently seen the light recently. But he doesn't have a record to back it up yet.

Again Bernie's not drawing false equivalencies to explain his endorsement of Mello. Bernie's a straight shooter. He doesn't need DU'ers to smear Kaine.

[LovingA2andMI]

87. PREVIOUSLY....Defined Means....

"3. Idioms
previous to, before; prior to:
Previous to moving here she lived in Los Angeles."

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/previously

And in 2005 (PREVIOUSLY) Tim Kaine had a Pro-Life position. It's documented. He has since being in the Senate, changed that position -- which is good -- but it is a change from his PREVIOUS stance on Pro-Life. Those are the facts.

Tim Kaine has been here before: a leading vice-presidential contender with a complicated stance on abortion that doesn’t neatly align with the one held by the top of the ticket.

His personal opposition to abortion generated significant scrutiny back in 2008 when Barack Obama, an abortion rights supporter, included the then-Virginia governor on his shortlist of running mates. Kaine’s hometown newspaper in Richmond flagged the potentially awkward partnership right away, pointing out the philosophical and policy differences in a side-by-side graphic widely republished by media outlets across the country.

Eight years later, Kaine is again a front-runner in the Democratic veepstakes, and again his views on reproductive rights — an issue central to the Democratic base — are under a microscope in the event Hillary Clinton selects him as her No. 2.

Since joining the Senate in 2012, Kaine has tried to cultivate an image as an abortion-rights champion. He’s pleased reproductive rights’ groups with a perfect voting record. He’s railed against GOP attempts to defund Planned Parenthood. And he’s celebrated in their legal victories, including last week’s Supreme Court ruling tossing out a Texas law that tried limiting a woman’s access to abortion clinics.

But he hasn’t always advanced policies directly in line with those of abortion rights advocacy groups. He pledged in his 2005 gubernatorial campaign to reduce the number of terminated pregnancies in the state by promoting adoption and abstinence-focused education. That cycle, the state NARAL chapter ripped Kaine’s GOP opponent, Jerry Kilgore, as “an extremely anti-choice candidate” but still withheld its endorsement of Kaine because he “embraces many of the restrictions on a woman’s right to choose.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/tim-kaine-abortion-predicament-225053

and Yes or No, means Yes or No.

[emulatorloo]

88. "Promoting" adoption doesn't restrict access to safe and legal abortion.

Nor does it shame women who choose to have an abortion.

[LovingA2andMI]

89. "promoting adoption and abstinence-focused education"

That's the WHOLE quote. All of it. Also, Abstinence Focused Education is a stance of the Pro-Life movement -- thus Tim Kaine was PREVIOUSLY a Pro-Life supporter.

Either way, the point has been made four times over and we have other things to do.

[emulatorloo]

91. "How do you feel about not allowing insurance to cover abortion"

If you truly believe "abstinence education" is the same as voting to not allow insurance companies to pay for legal abortions, I can't help you.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028970435#post36

36. How do you feel about not allowing insurance to cover abortion?

because Mello voted for that also...what about carrying dead babies? the 20 and 24 week bans have forced women to carry dead babies to term risking their health in states that have 20 or 24 week bans. you can click on the links in the except below...and see how Mello voted...it takes you to the actual NE bills.

Mello is a sponsor of the final version of a 20-week abortion ban approved by the governor in 2010, and cast anti-choice votes in favor of requiring physicians to be physically present for an abortion in order to impede access to telemedicine abortion care, and a law banning insurance plans in the state from covering abortions. He was endorsed in 2010 by anti-choice group Nebraska Right to Life.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/omaha-mayoral-candidate-under-fire-says-he-would-never-do-anything-to-restrict-access-to-reproductive-health-care_us_58f8e868e4b018a9ce590a84

----

Agreed, yes we have better things to do. You can say Mello and Kaine's are the "same" all you would like. The record does not support that assertion though.

Again Bernie's not pushing this false equivalency.

It really isn't necessary for DU'ers to push it because of some misguided idea that it "helps" Bernie.

It doesn't help Bernie at all.

Have a great week, I appreciate the discussion.

[ehrnst]

62. Nope. Tim Kaine never voted against women - he got 100% from NARAL.

What one's voting record is makes a difference.

Please show me Mello's record.

[Orsino]

77. And this must not go unpunished. n/t

[we can do it]

90. Sick of the condescending mansplaing and nondemocrat complaining about dems.

[FiveGoodMen]

139. Doesn't mansplaining suggest that men's opinions don't really count?

Isn't THAT condescending?

[musette_sf]

93. Let me know when Tim Kaine's voting record looks like gestational slaver Mello:

LB 1103 Prohibiting Abortions After 20 Weeks of Pregnancy Bill Passed - Senate (44 - 5) Yea

LB 594 Abortion Screening Requirements Bill Passed - Senate (40 - 9) Yea

LB 22 Prohibits Insurance Coverage of Abortion Bill Passed - Senate (37 - 7) Yea

LB 521 Requires Physician Presence During Abortions Bill Passed - Senate (38 - 9) Yea

LB 675 Establishes Procedures for Ultrasounds Performed Prior to Abortions Bill Passed - Senate (40 - 5) Yea

[NurseJackie]

121. No. That's incomplete. And you know it.

Stop it.

[killbotfactory]

123. The pro-corporate wing of the party is scared that his economic message will destroy their funding.

They think if they can convince enough people that Bernie is an asshole, that his economic message will disappear.

[QC]

134. Bingo. n/t

[Demsrule86]

147. That is nonsense.

Abortion rights can not be thrown under the bus without push back from progressives/liberals.

[killbotfactory]

166. Abortion rights will only get thrown under the bus if you let republicans win. Nt

[Demsrule86]

167. Sorry...endorsing an anti-choice candidate shows a willingness to shelve reproductive rights

as a progressive issue...This is not the way to win votes by throwing women under the bus. Civil rights are not optional.

"At the same event where Sanders stumped for Mello, Jane Kleeb—a board member of Sanders' Our Revolution—gave an ecstatic speech, proclaiming that "the Democratic party is a broad party! We are pro-life, we are pro-choice!" When called out on this, Kleeb insisted that "we do have pro-life and pro-choice Democrats in our party and I welcome all of those folks."

http://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/news/a44711/for-bernie-sanders-pro-choice-politics-continues-to-be-optional/

[musette_sf]

124. "will not work to restrict choice"

Heath Mello has done a great deal to restrict choice.

LB 1103 Prohibiting Abortions After 20 Weeks of Pregnancy Bill Passed - Senate (44 - 5) Yea

LB 594 Abortion Screening Requirements Bill Passed - Senate (40 - 9) Yea

LB 22 Prohibits Insurance Coverage of Abortion Bill Passed - Senate (37 - 7) Yea

LB 521 Requires Physician Presence During Abortions Bill Passed - Senate (38 - 9) Yea

LB 675 Establishes Procedures for Ultrasounds Performed Prior to Abortions Bill Passed - Senate (40 - 5) Yea

[ehrnst]

145. Because Senator Sanders has NEVER castigated someone on the basis of their past votes

or their support of their spouse's legislation decades ago.

He is all about understanding how politicians evolve on issues.

Always.

[elleng]

126. No betrayal.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017435537

[Demsrule86]

149. So we become a 50 state party by throwing civil rights under the bus...

including but not limited to abortion rights? I can not accept that sort of 50 state strategy...progressive voters who care about social justice will sit on their hands if this continues, and we snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. It is a betrayal.

[elleng]

163. No such thing.

Pay attention, listen to his words.

[Demsrule86]

165. I heard his words...about pro-choice ...and the normalization movement of of anti-choice candidates

in the hopes of appealing to Trump supporters...mostly white men.

"At the same event where Sanders stumped for Mello, Jane Kleeb—a board member of Sanders' Our Revolution—gave an ecstatic speech, proclaiming that "the Democratic party is a broad party! We are pro-life, we are pro-choice!" When called out on this, Kleeb insisted that "we do have pro-life and pro-choice Democrats in our party and I welcome all of those folks."

Sorry that is unacceptable."

[left-of-center2012]

127. Long past time for the Bernie bashing to stop

It will only hurt us in '18, '20.

[Demsrule86]

148. Long past time, for some to understand that when

Sen. Sanders endorses an anti-choice candidate not once but twice (Perriello in Virginia Governors primary), there will be push back. This is not 'bashing' but a legitimate difference of opinion. I do not believe economic populism should be the most important issue in the Democratic party,social justice must occupy an equally important position, or we become Republican lite.

[lapucelle]

128. Tim Kaine has a 100% rating from NARAL,

and was given a full-throated statement of support for his vice presidential run.
NARAL condemned last week's endorsement of Mello.

And it seems that Mello may have misspoken about other endorsements and ratings he said he has received.

“Planned Parenthood Voters of Nebraska has never endorsed Heath Mello for public office nor has Planned Parenthood Voters of Nebraska given Heath Mello a 100% rating, as some media outlets have erroneously reported,” the group said in a statement.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/omaha-mayoral-candidate-under-fire-says-he-would-never-do-anything-to-restrict-access-to-reproductive-health-care_us_58f8e868e4b018a9ce590a84

https://www.prochoiceamerica.org/2017/04/20/naral-statement-dnc-chair-perez-senator-sanders-embracing-anti-choice-candidate-nebraska-today/

https://www.prochoiceamerica.org/2016/07/22/naral-statement-kaine-vice-president/

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/288952-pro-abortion-rights-group-give-kaine-nod-of-approval

[comradebillyboy]

177. Keep beating that dead horse a bit longer...nt

[Blue_Tires]

179. And that whole Keystone XL Pipeline thing?

The left doesn't care about that anymore??

[Ken Burch]

181. Not sure where you're going with that question

How does that relate to this thread?

Not trying to be argumentative, but you've lost me here.

As far as I know we're still against Keystone XL, but that's not going to be decided by who becomes mayor of Omaha.

[George II]

183. But Tim Kaine never sponsored a bill to restrict (via sensationalism, i.e., ultrasounds) abortion.

[guillaumeb]

214. And so did Elizabeth Warren.............

with far less outcry.

[Dorian Gray]

220. Yet 220 replies.

hornet's nest.

Damn. I was team HRC throughout. Never liked Bernie all that much. But this divisiveness is crazy.

[Ken Burch]

221. Self-deleting this thread because I did more harm than good in posting it.

Still think Bernie didn't deserve all the blowback, And I want to help move us past the myth that we need to choose between "social justice" OR "economic justice" (we need to be working with equal passion for BOTH), but I got it wrong in the way I phrased the OP.

There was a double standard, but the positions of the two people I compared (while having significant common points) are NOT identical and I shouldn't have said they were.