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Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:34 AM

And the hits just keep coming.... Bernie Sanders: The Model of the Democratic Party Is Failing

Fresh off his “Unity Tour” alongside Democratic National Committee chair Tom Perez, Sen. Bernie Sanders said on Sunday that the Democratic Party needs to change. “I think what is clear to anyone who looks at where the Democratic Party today is, that the model of the Democratic Party is failing,” Sanders said on CBS’s Face the Nation.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/04/23/bernie_sanders_says_the_model_of_the_democratic_party_is_failing.html?wpsrc=sh_all_mob_fb_top

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Reply And the hits just keep coming.... Bernie Sanders: The Model of the Democratic Party Is Failing (Original post)
boston bean Apr 2017 OP
lamp_shade Apr 2017 #1
brush Apr 2017 #225
Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2017 #237
democratisphere Apr 2017 #2
NCTraveler Apr 2017 #3
Cha Apr 2017 #24
RKP5637 Apr 2017 #142
Cha Apr 2017 #276
KPN Apr 2017 #152
Lonestarblue Apr 2017 #59
ehrnst Apr 2017 #69
Pauldg47 Apr 2017 #74
NCTraveler Apr 2017 #246
Amimnoch Apr 2017 #192
ehrnst Apr 2017 #195
grahampuba Apr 2017 #114
ehrnst Apr 2017 #127
KPN Apr 2017 #159
ehrnst Apr 2017 #161
KPN Apr 2017 #176
tonyt53 Apr 2017 #229
KPN Apr 2017 #258
SunSeeker Apr 2017 #146
ehrnst Apr 2017 #164
KPN Apr 2017 #171
dawg Apr 2017 #188
KPN Apr 2017 #196
SunSeeker Apr 2017 #193
KPN Apr 2017 #198
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KPN Apr 2017 #256
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KPN Apr 2017 #295
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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:38 AM

1. Oh that's just swell.

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Response to lamp_shade (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:38 PM

225. He continually disses the Democratic Party when the repugs are colluding with Russians...

gerrymandering and stealing elections left and right with broken voting machines in POC districts, Interstate Crosscheck and voter ID laws designed to diminish Dem votes and all he wants to talk about is how bad the Democratic Party needs fixing.

What needs fixing is how to stop repugs from stealing elections.

Look around Mr. Outreach Chairman, that other party deserves some of your criticism.

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Response to lamp_shade (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:00 PM

237. He might as well be writing ads for the RNC

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:42 AM

2. I love alternative cheerleaders.

Dems require collaboration, consolidation and a tune-up.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:43 AM

3. The Democratic Party contains about one hundred times the strength of his party of one.

 

This guy is losing it. I think the election took a serious toll on him.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:32 AM

24. But the m$m keeps giving him a mic to

divide while they gleefully rub their hand$ together.

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Response to Cha (Reply #24)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:26 AM

142. F M$M in the US! They hand the mic to anyone they think they can make money off.

For the most part, M$M in the US is a disgusting lot. And look what they bestowed on the US. tRump and his cohorts. M$M cheer-leaded him all the way to the presidency knowing they could make money by airing him constantly.

Relative to Bernie, IMO, he's going to end up splitting the vote and we'll end up with tRump again in 2020.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #142)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 06:07 PM

276. I agree.. the M$M love the Dividers.. put BS on ALL

the time.. it's BACKFIRING.

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Response to Cha (Reply #24)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:38 AM

152. Senate Democrats gave him the mic.

They named him Chair of Outreach. That means something. They did that for a good reason.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:54 AM

59. He's already running for the 2020 election.

If he trashes the Democratic Party enough, he might be able to run as an independent and win (at least that may be his thinking). Millenials seem to love the guy. Otherwise, he'll re-register as a Democrat again and try to win the party's nomination for the 2020 election. I hope we have some strong Democratic contenders by then. I support a lot of Bernie's economic message, but he does not inspire me as a future president.

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Response to Lonestarblue (Reply #59)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:02 AM

69. Yep. (nt)

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Response to Lonestarblue (Reply #59)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:08 AM

74. Whatever you say buddy.

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Response to Pauldg47 (Reply #74)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:14 PM

246. Thank you, my friend. nt.

 

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Response to Lonestarblue (Reply #59)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:36 AM

192. 2018 Senate race is my indicator.

I'd questioned why he went back to Independent after the primary, and was given a rather satisfactory (for me at least)answer that his constituency elected him as an independent, so he returned in the role for which he was elected.

So, in 2018, he has the ability to run as a Democrat. If he does, I will give him every bit of consideration that I'd give any Democrat running for office. If he chooses to remain Independent, he won't be my choice.

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Response to Amimnoch (Reply #192)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:39 AM

195. You are far more generous than I would be. (nt)

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:59 AM

114. how large of print do you need it spelled out

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/04/23/two-thirds-of-americans-think-that-the-democratic-party-is-out-of-touch-with-the-country/?utm_term=.499f00781c40


67 percent of people polled said the Democratic Party is out of touch with the american people.

That is 5 points more than the 62 percent of people that said the GOP was.

Your not even rearranging the deck chairs anymore, your arguing who should be navigating as it rests on the seabed.

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Response to grahampuba (Reply #114)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:13 AM

127. So this means we totally need to take the party in the direction to 25-30 years ago?

Maybe the direction that the Party needs to go is forward...

Those pesky women are just gonna persist on this.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #127)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:45 AM

159. No, not entirely. But on the

economic front, yes.

There's no reason the Party can not be all in on women's rights, the rights of POC and LGBT, etc., and economic justice too.

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Response to KPN (Reply #159)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:49 AM

161. I am not hearing the second part of that message from Bernie.

At all. He has said for years that those issues are "optional" to a "progressive."

http://www.rawstory.com/2013/10/bernie-sanders-tells-ed-schultz-southern-democrats-are-tired-of-being-abandoned-by-the-party/

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #161)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:06 AM

176. I understand your position and reading on that.

I won't say that you are absolutely wrong about that. But I will say that Bernie himself is not ambivalent in the least about his personal support for social justice for all.

It comes down to, do we want to win elections or not? The majority of Americans are with us already on social issues, as are nearly all younger people/the millenials.

So, what's it going to be? Are we going build on the majority re: social justice issues that we already have or not?

We are prevailing long run on social issues and I believe we will continue to do so regardless of how many nefarious attempts the GOP makes to turn back the clock on those issues. The future is bright if you observe younger cohorts.

As a Party, we should never accept laws that do not respect the rights of women, POC or LGBT. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to win over votes around economic issues.

I just don't buy the either or stance. It's a false premise in my mind -- and a losing one so far.

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Response to KPN (Reply #176)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:49 PM

229. BUT the party lost in November because it did not address the issues of a certain group of voters.

 

The party lost the vote of the white 45-65 y/o middle class voters because it did not address economic issues. All that group wanted to hear in the DNC platform was about good jobs and job security. Our platform addressed everything else except that. Trump did, and that is who the non-racist voters in that group voted for.

Those Democratic voters I mentioned would never stand back and allow the issues you mentioned to be pushed back to where they used to be. BUT they will also not allow their wants and needs, which benefit everybody, to go unaddressed.

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Response to tonyt53 (Reply #229)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:55 PM

258. I assume you meant this response to a different post. Sounds like

you and I are in largely in agreement regarding the importance of economic issues and FDR Democratic principles.

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Response to grahampuba (Reply #114)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:31 AM

146. You can thank folks like Bernie spreading this meme for people incorrectly thinking that.

Please tell me what position(s) of the Democratic Party is "out of touch" with the American people.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #146)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:52 AM

164. This poll that has gotten certain progressives overjoyed

States that 67% of "those polled" thought the Democratic party was "out of touch."

I think that Bernie might do well to check out his own constituents' approval ratings of him. He's down 12% in approval, and up 9% in disapproval. Leahy is up, and may well surpass Sanders in approval by constituents.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #146)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:58 AM

171. In what way is this a meme?

What positions? Actually, the Party platform was pretty darned good. I'm not sure it's so much about current positions -- like the Party platform -- as it is past performance and public expectations about follow through based on that past performance.

There's a 35 year history of middle/working class erosion. It strikes me that a majority of Americans are skeptical about both parties in this regard.

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Response to KPN (Reply #171)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:28 AM

188. Maybe those 35 years would've been better for them if voters hadn't kneecapped us ...

two years in, both times we actually had an opportunity to do something to help them.

As much as some progressives love to blather on about Democrats not doing enough, both times we have actually had the power, voters immediately punished us for doing "too much".

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Response to dawg (Reply #188)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:39 AM

196. There is some truth to that. But its up to us

to win the votes, no?

I'm not sure we got punished for doing "too much" so much as not making our case well enough, not countering GOP attacks effectively, on both of those occasions. Plus there's always the ying and the yang for the party in power at the time.

In the end, we're gonna win. Keep the faith.

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Response to KPN (Reply #171)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:36 AM

193. So there are no out of touch Dem positions. Which shows that is a false narrative. nt.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #193)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:43 AM

198. Well, you ignore the part about past performance and

learned expectations regarding follow through. No to mention that most voters don't vote for a platform and never really have. Hell, most voters don't read them. ... So ... I respectfully disagree -- no false narrative.

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Response to KPN (Reply #198)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:59 AM

206. Why didn't he just say Dem past performance was inadequate? That is a very different critique.

Strategy is different from substance. Bernie knows the difference.

And even that strategy critique is debatable. Dems lost because of gerrymandering and Citizens United opening up dark money floodgates.

As far as why Hillary lost, it is unquestionably the Comey letter, not some "out of touch strategy," let alone out of touch policy positions as Bernie incorrectly implies.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #206)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:51 PM

256. I think he did say that in other words.

There's no question gerrymandering, voter suppression, Comey and even Russian influence played major roles in us losing the WH. Without those, we would have won. I'm not debating that.

I am debating the fact that with a hate-mongering corrupt bastard like Trump as the GOP nominee, we should have been able to win even with those nefarious assaults. This should have been a vast landslide and it wasn't. ... Now I know you may take exception to that, so I'll even concede on this point regarding the Presidential election.

But that doesn't address any of the other losses we've incurred at State, local and Congressional levels over the past 6 years. Unless we turn that dynamic around, we are doomed to repeat this failure in the future. We can never right gerrymandering, Citizens United, voter suppression or even legitimately investigate the Russia-Trump collusion without that. And if we can't do those things, how are we ever going to achieve real social justice in America? It's not going to happen in my view until we make significant strides toward leveling the economic playing field that affects all people.

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Response to KPN (Reply #256)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 05:09 PM

270. Why'd he use those words? It sounded like a Trump tweet.

If he meant to say we should concentrate on income inequality to the exclusion of all else, why didn't Bernie just say that instead of maligning the Democratic Party?

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #270)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 10:15 AM

295. You are putting words in Bernie's mouth when you ask that. He ...

didn't mean "to say we should concentrate on income inequality to the exclusion of all else" at all. That's clearly not what he said. If criticizing the Democratic Party's past performance (calling the Party "out of touch with the working class" is nothing more than a colloquialism meaning the same thing) is maligning the Party then so be it I guess. I don't see it as maligning at all. To me, it's no different than frankly calling out one's child for poor behavior -- it gets their attention and puts them on notice that they are being held accountable. Progressives in the Party have been saying this for 30 years. There's nothing new in any of this other than a heightened awareness of the economic issue -- i.e., populism. Bernie just happens to be one of the most popular people say,ing these things, ergo the attention he gets.

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Response to KPN (Reply #295)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 12:22 PM

297. Claiming Dems are "out of touch with the working class" is NOT "nothing more than a colloquialism."

It is essentially a Trump tweet.

The Democratic Party is not a misbehaving child. And it does not need to be lied about to "be held accountable." That makes absolutely no sense. I can't believe you said that.


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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #297)

Wed Apr 26, 2017, 09:48 AM

299. Believe it. That's the way I see it as do millions of others ...

not to mention the millions of Independents who were formerly or lean Dem. The Party establishment (old school Dems, New Dems, Third Way, Neo-Libs -- whatever one chooses to call it) promoted globalism, free markets and essentially chose to favor corporations over people on the economic front the past 30 years and it's coming back to haunt them. It's real and needs to be addressed -- aggressively. Doing otherwise will only result in the same, well, result.

I really have to wonder why so many Dems seem defensive about this particular self-critique. I don't get that ... and I can already hear the "It's not self-critique. It's Bernie -- he's not a Democrat. Says so himself." That's not the point. The concern is a legitimate one. Why would we not pay heed to it -- especially when economic and social justice issues are so inextricably intertwined as many of the Bernie bashers themselves point out. Why is that?

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Response to KPN (Reply #299)

Wed Apr 26, 2017, 11:14 AM

300. Dems didn't favor "corporations over people." That's the GOP.

You've lapped up the GOP propaganda. Let me guess, you also believe we're trying to force everyone to use the Amero, as some Ron Paul acolytes believe.



SMH

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #300)

Wed Apr 26, 2017, 11:21 AM

301. You gotta be kidding.

You'll have to put some work into convincing me I'm wrong. This is an issue that I have paid close attention to for the past 35 years -- maybe a couple of years longer. Not because I've been personally hurt by the Party's rightward shift, but -- probably -- because I came from a family of 9 kids whose Dad was a local truck driver while Mom stayed at home with the kids. The change in the Party, the economy and the security of the middle/working class over that time have been palpable -- at least to me.

ps -- in no way am I making a case here that mothers should stay at home with the kids. Just wanted to give context to my perspective.

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Response to KPN (Reply #301)

Wed Apr 26, 2017, 11:37 AM

303. The rightward shift is thanks to the GOP going off the deep end on Reaganomics.

Blaming Dems for the erosion of the middle class is wrong and this is not the website for it. Read some Paul Krugman for fuck's sake.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #303)

Wed Apr 26, 2017, 12:32 PM

304. I have read Paul Krugman - lots. What's your point?

I'm not blaming Dems. All I'm saying is the Democratic Party hasn't done a good job supporting the middle and working class the past 30 years. The proof is in the pudding. Dems have been complicit if by inaction alone -- but they have also supported numerous things that contributed to todays economic situation.

The Dems have not adequately supported unions, they supported (or some of them including the Dem President at the time) NAFTA, 38 Dem Senators voted in favor of repealing Glass-Steagall/Dem President signed it, pushed the TPP for fuck's sake, supported the concept of chained CPI initially (until AARP and others loudly protested). That's just off the top of my frigging head for crying out loud. ... How did any of those things benefit the middle or working class?

Re the GOP is responsible alone, give me some specifics. How did the GOP make the Democratic Party do those things? How did the GOP make Bill Clinton promote globalization and retraining of America's workforce for the technology-based economy as opposed to keeping regulations in place that inhibited off-shoring and outsourcing?

How about some substantiation?

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Response to KPN (Reply #304)

Wed Apr 26, 2017, 01:11 PM

307. The repeal of Glass-Steagall did not kill the middle class, Reagonomics did.

If you read "lots" of Paul Krugman you'd know that. The Glass-Steagall Act was established in 1933 as the 1933 Banking Act. This act had been gutted so much by the time it was repealed in 1999 that it was a skeleton of it's old self. I agreed with Hillary Clinton that a new law needed to be written to address today's problems and trading systems. Paul Krugman agreed with Hillary. He said her plan was better.

Thanks to gerrymandering, the GOP has outsized control over our government, further fueled by Citizens United. That is why they are able to out-message Dems and convince people that they should vote for them over Dems. They've even managed to convince so-called progressives to vote against Dems and blame Dems for their economic plight. And thus we have the situation we are in now.

Before the Republican Great Recession, wages were not great and had been stagnating for a decade, but only 20 percent of American jobs were considered “low-wage poverty work.” Since their Great Recession, over 60 percent of “recovery jobs are poverty-wage employment” and it has been very profitable for business. Democrats unsucessfully tried to get Republicans to raise wages and create real middle class jobs with infrastructure spending, but the GOP would have none of it and filibustered such attempts. Obama only had a filibuster proof majority for 24 working days. It is simply wrong to claim Dems did not try hard enough or were complicit.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #307)

Wed Apr 26, 2017, 02:07 PM

309. We disagree.

The Great Recession was the result of a lot of things, but it's massiveness, and the need for taxpayers to bail out the banks, was without question the final result of the 3 decades long neutering of and eventual repeal of Glass-Steagall. Granted, lobbyists and and the GOP initiated the slow demise of Glass-Steagall's effectiveness via initial deregulatory changes in 1974 that served to undermine the act, but there's no question that Dems contributed to that deregulation and were complicit. Not only did Robert Rubin and Bill Clinton continued the deregulation that started way back under Ford, but then they actually took the position that Glass-Steagall was obsolete! Did they replace it with something better? No! they simply repealed it. Was it obsolete? Well yeah, but no frigging no wonder! It's teeth had been removed including by them.

Dodd-Frank is another example of inadequacy and failure in my view. It hasn't fixed the too big to fail problem at all -- and whatever teeth it had have already been watered down by lobbyists -- under Obama's watch.

You can't blame everything on the GOP. Sure gerrymandering weakened our and Obama's hand significantly. But this has been long in the making and involves more than just the Great Recession ... and many of us have been saying so -- well before the GOP fired up the Tea Party or Faux News became the largest source of evening "news" for America.

Again, I really have to wonder why some can't accept and/or object to the notion that maybe the Party needs to do some rethinking on some things. Why is that? As a lifelong Democrat, I just have to wonder about that. It doesn't make sense to me.

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Response to KPN (Reply #309)

Wed Apr 26, 2017, 03:24 PM

310. What part of "only 24 filibuster proof working days" do you not understand?

How did you expect Obama to get a stronger law than Dodd-Frank? Dodd-Frank is NOT a "failure." It is an amazing success, especially considering the GOP opposition to it. It gave us the Volcker Rule, which banned proprietary trading by commercial banks, whereby deposits are used to trade on the bank's own accounts, the sort of speculative investing that helped fuel the financial crisis. Dodd-Frank also gave us the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the nation’s first federal agency with a mission of focusing solely on consumer financial protection. As the CFPB reported, "During FY 2016, the Bureau’s supervisory actions resulted in financial institutions providing more than $58 million in redress to over 516,000 consumers, and the Bureau has also announced orders through enforcement efforts for approximately $247 million in total relief for consumers who fell victim to various violations of consumer financial protection laws, along with over $83.7 million in civil money penalties. The Bureau has also continued to develop and refine its nationwide supervisory program for depository and nondepository financial
institutions, through which those institutions are examined for compliance with Federal consumer financial protection law."
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/data-research/research-reports/report-consumer-financial-protection-bureau-pursuant-section-1017e4-dodd-frank-act-2016/

The financial collapse of 2008 was not caused by the repeal of Glass-Steagall. It was caused by fraud. Banks gave out "liar loans" to people they knew had no way of repaying them. Then they sold off the loans as mortgage backed securities aided and abetted by unscrupulous ratings agencies Moody's and Standards & Poors who fraudulently gave the worthless securities A+ ratings. The entitles holding those worthless mortgage backed securities then collapsed, causing a domino effect. As mad as we were at the banks, we had to bail them out or we would have had another Great Recession and world financial collapse, which would have hurt the middle class and poor the most.

Your animosity to Obama, and Dems in general, is not justified by the facts.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #310)

Thu Apr 27, 2017, 12:41 AM

311. Oh come on. "Animosity toward Obama and Dems"?

Critical thought/view is now "animosity" regardless of the fact that a person has voted Dem every single election in the past 45 years. Vote but don't criticize, is that it?

The trend -- the decline of middle America/growth in poverty in America -- has been 35 years lo-o-o-o-ong. That's pretty clear. That's a problem. If we want to be the winning party if the future, we need to be conspicuously persistent in addressing that. We haven't in the past. That has hurt us.

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Response to KPN (Reply #311)

Thu Apr 27, 2017, 10:56 AM

312. I can only go by what you write. Your posts bash Dems.

Suggesting that Dodd-Frank was a "failure" and that lobbyists wrote it "under Obama's watch" is not critique. It is bashing and demonstrates animosity to Obama and Dems.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #312)

Thu Apr 27, 2017, 11:57 AM

313. Go by what I write? You seem to have a confirmation bias going on ...

when you read what I write. You misquote me again. I never said lobbyists wrote Dodd-Frank. If you've paid attention, you would know that "lobbyists" declawed it via influencing the regulations that were required to put the law (and are often required to put a law) into practice -- the Executive Branch administers the law and authors regulations in order to do that.

Your hyperbole (animosity to Obama and Dems) is counter productive, not to mention off-base and incorrect. If your goal is to alienate me or drive me out of the Party or DU, its probably a reasonable tactic. But it isn't going to work. I've been a registered Dem for 45 years. Have held a local elected office for 11 years, and am active in my local Democratic Party/member of its central committee. Ain't gonna happen.

We disagree. And I really do wonder why some Dems are defensive about what a lot of us see as constructive criticism, especially in light of the Party's decline over the past 7 years. ... I'll just say goodbye now -- or you can have the last word if you like.

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Response to grahampuba (Reply #114)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:43 AM

158. Yes. There's a reason the Party has been

hemorrhaging elected positions at every level over the past 6 or so years. There's also a reason the Tea Party successfully took over the GOP and Trump is now in the White House.

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Response to KPN (Reply #158)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:53 AM

166. Lot of gerrymandering. Takes way more votes to put a Dem in office than a GOP'er

And if we aren't careful, our own Tea Party could take over.

The Kremlin and Comey put DT in the White House, not the voters. The voters chose Hillary.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #166)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:23 AM

184. Gerrymandering is an issue. We need to beat that no question.

Not sure what or who you are referring to when you say "our own Tea Party"? White males? If so, no way. We outnumber them, and there are quite a few -- actually many white -- enlightened males who support social justice.

Yes, voters chose Hillary -- but that didn't matter because of their geographic distribution. The electoral college is definitely an artifact that needs to be changed. How are we going to do that without gaining a majority at every level?

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Response to KPN (Reply #184)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:37 AM

194. Actually, she lost by less than 1% in those swing states

Even one of them would have given her the EC,

And we don't even know if she lost in Michigan:

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a8489128/michigan-recount-first-hand-account/

"How are we going to do that without gaining a majority at every level?"

Address the gerrymandering.

Stop listening to the carefully crafted fake news that so many on the left fell for, and I saw all over DU.

Our own tea party - extremists with very narrow definitions on what it means to be a true messenger of what the party stands for, with no dissent tolerated for their particular priorities. And yes, there is a far larger percentage of white men in that group than in the party at large.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #194)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:34 PM

252. Yep, it was less than 1%.

I agree about MI -- my sister lives there and believes that is true from up close.

So how do we address the gerrymandering unless we take State legislatures, Secretary's of State, etc.?

This isn't fake news -- it's old news. The decline of the middle class became conspicuous first under Reagan and has continued downward since. There are many current and former Democrats who have been concerned about this exactly since then. The party has payed lip service to this issue but that's about it. Obama's support of TPP and chained CPI are recent examples.

I disagree about Democrats who hold my view on this being "extremists" and resent that labeling. Economic justice and social justice are inextricably intertwined. Saying one is more important than the other is just wrong. They are equally important.

Far larger % of white men in what group? So-called Democratic extremists?

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Response to KPN (Reply #252)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:39 PM

254. The extremists are the ones who think that the only universal issues are the ones

that concern white straight working class men, while all others are "identity politics" and are a distraction.

Is that clearer?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #254)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:02 PM

260. Yes. Thank you.

Well, I hope you will believe me when I say I'm not one of them. As far as I'm concerned, the only universal issue is justice for all -- and that definitely includes social justice for all.

Perhaps where we disagree is that I believe Bernie feels the same way as I do about that, and you maybe don't (well, I'm pretty sure you don't). I do think the two (social and economic justice) are inextricably intertwined and we can't really have one fully without the other. I think Bernie believes that as well.

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Response to KPN (Reply #260)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:50 PM

267. I think that Bernie doesn't see that they are interconnected.

When he dismisses abortion as a "social issue" and LGBTQ and POC issues as "identity politics" I don't see that he does.

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Response to KPN (Reply #158)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 10:58 AM

296. We have 2 county districts

A republican was elected to one for the first time in our history. The fact that long time Democratic party activists (including a former Dem legislator and primary candidate in that race) endorsed the republican. He's not just any republican. They helped elect a loudmouth conservative radio host who sounds like a mix of Rush Limbaugh and 45.
They were spiteful that a young, very liberal woman won the primary. The long standing political operative, who always followed the lead of the party lost.

This was less about their positions than it was about the state party trying to maintain control.

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Response to grahampuba (Reply #114)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:50 PM

230. If certain high-profile people keep yelling that "the Democratic Party is out of touch"...

over and over and over and over, 67% of people will believe it.

If certain high-profile people would start yelling that the Republican Party is colluding with Russians,

gerrymandering and stealing elections left and right with broken voting machines in POC districts,

Interstate Crosscheck and voter ID laws designed to diminish Dem votes and what needs fixing is how

to stop repugs from stealing elections, 67% of people will get the real picture instead of the divisive

one about how screwed up the Democratic Party is.

We're not the ones colluding with Russians, gerrymandering and stealing elections left and right with

broken voting machines in POC districts, Interstate Crosscheck and voter ID laws designed to diminish

Dem votes.

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Response to grahampuba (Reply #114)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:16 PM

247. I've noticed our progressive paltform really has some scrambling.

 

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Response to grahampuba (Reply #114)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:37 PM

253. You don't air your dirty laundry in public. Things like this should be discussed whithing the party

not yelling it out for the opposition to use those words against you.

This guy is only hurting us.

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #253)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:18 PM

263. Yes. Anyone with a GENUINE and SINCERE desire to help (not hurt) the party would do that.

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #253)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 03:55 PM

298. within the party...

Sorry, cant look past the pitting Perez against Ellison tactic to see any responsiveness to internal discussions. Progressives are marginalized at every level and every turn.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:33 PM

223. "one hundred times the strength of his party of one" - not according to votes, polls, and donations

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #223)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:21 PM

249. Polls are your thing. Votes have been clear. As have donations.

 

One hundred times might be an exaggeration. Still not far off.

Actually, not far off if one is also considering accomplishments. Considering he is one of the longest standing career politicians one hundred times might have been putting it mildly. His greatest success to this date was blocking tens of millions from a pathway to citizenship. Amazing that is his greatest accomplishment. Entrenching oppression even further.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:45 AM

4. ....

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:47 AM

5. Well, that's really helpful

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:48 AM

6. You're not helping Bernie!

And you're not a Democrat.

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Response to treestar (Reply #6)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:10 AM

18. Than you treestar!!!

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Response to kytngirl (Reply #18)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:59 AM

113. Ditto, & second that

i went to hear Bernie speak last Thursday here in DFW, and it was same old same old. He small legion of young groupies were there supporting him with loud chants, but Bernie's message was the same old stump he delivered while he was running as a candidate under the Democratic ticket. A bit duplicitous isn't it?
Nope you're not helping Bernie. Put up or shut up - either you're with us or against us. No need to disguise yourself under the Democratic banner then go and say you're not a Democrat and complain about what's wrong with the party. I for one didn't vote for you, and will not be voting for you if you run again in 2020.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:48 AM

7. Those defending Sanders should think about this. He has been given a leadership position

 

in the party. If he thinks there is something wrong, he should shut up, roll up his sleeves and fix it.

This trite posturing made little sense when he positioned himself as a pure outsider and it makes zero sense now.

Shut up and get to work Bernie.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:30 AM

23. Yeah, he'd rather divide.. even his former press sec Symone

Sanders said he wasn't the guy for the "unity tour" Actually I could have told her before the Unity Tour.

"In retrospect, she said, Maybe Bernie Sanders isnt the guy for the unity tour."

Why Bernie Sanders’s Unity Tour Failed

snip//

The independent senator hit the road with Democratic national chairman Tom Perez—and highlighted everything that's tearing the party apart.

https://newrepublic.com/article/142152/bernie-sanderss-unity-tour-failed

The next Unity Tour.. Send People on it who Want to Unify!

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Response to Cha (Reply #23)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:13 AM

81. +1000 (nt)

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Response to Cha (Reply #23)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:00 AM

118. Bernie - dammit!

 

Put a friggin' (D) next to your name to transform yourself! That's all it takes to have these folks all embrace you.

Secondly Bernie.... sayin' stuff like this can get you PERMANENTLY BANNED from DU. Matter o' fact, you wouldn't be here now if it weren't for these fine folks draggin' you back into the room for yet another round of pummeling!

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Response to Plucketeer (Reply #118)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:52 PM

268. He would have some cred in his statements about Dems

if he joined the party.

Otherwise, how is he different from the Greens, Libertarians, Socialists, and the GOP?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #268)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 05:25 PM

271. yeah

 

And how often to they caucas and vote with the Dems???

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:16 AM

85. Or Give Up The POsition

and stop being a hypocrite

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Response to Me. (Reply #85)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:24 AM

138. Absolutely, if he can't help attacking the party, give up the position and the pretense of working

 

with us.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:14 AM

129. +1000 (nt)

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:43 AM

157. Fixing what he considers the problem is what he is attempting to do.



At very least the issues are being discussed.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #157)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:55 AM

169. How Is Constant Carping Fixing The Problem

What has he actually done recently except for having Weaver set up a 501c/3?

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Response to Me. (Reply #169)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:26 AM

187. Exactly, it's just posturing. He hasn't got any other skills. nt

 

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #157)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:26 AM

186. No, he is posturing. He isn't fixing anything. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 12:02 AM

283. +1000, his obsession with badmouthing Democrats has

gone over the line now. Enough is enough.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:49 AM

8. I know Sanders is and always was one a "Johnny One Note" but it's hard to believe

 

this isn't consciously intentional. And I'm really beginning to wonder about his purpose.

Or maybe those of us sick of this crap really ARE "Russian trolls". (sarcasm).

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 12:10 AM

284. Exactly. His actions do look like part of a bigger self-serving

strategy.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:50 AM

9. How should Democrats respond to the Russian threat


to the elections of western democracies? Did Sanders address Russia and sanctions in his Face the Nation interview?

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Response to delisen (Reply #9)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:06 PM

219. How should Democrats respond to the Russian threat? a tomahawk up putins ass....

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:52 AM

10. Time to end the unity tour and maybe

we need to ask the admins to take away Bernie's protected status if he makes such comments about the Democratic party.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #10)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:34 AM

26. I 100% agree with that -- I will back you with that request

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #26)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:48 AM

102. I don't see how we can grant an exception to someone who says stuff that would get a poster banned

on DU. We should be able to refute his words without worrying about breaking site rules.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #102)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:25 AM

141. Oh gosh, because you're being so heavily censored lately...

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Response to Kentonio (Reply #141)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:42 AM

155. it doesn't make sense to me. And it is not about censorship but

about supporting Democrats. Is Bernie still an ally of the Democratic party after some of the stuff he has said publicly about the Democratic Party? I am not sure.

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Response to Kentonio (Reply #141)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:08 AM

177. How does it feel?

I mean, is it worse over on JPR?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #177)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:43 AM

199. I have no idea.

Back when this place was at its most divided and people were alerting on every other post, I heard about JPR and was interested by a pro-Bernie forum where people could discuss without all the bickering. Unfortunately it quickly became apparent that some of the stuff being posted there was unpleasant and too reminiscent of right wing hate sites for my liking.

I imagine a majority of people who went there did the same. Despite what some of you appear to think, most Bernie supports are actually reasonable, decent people and not a cabal of evil reptile cultists.

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Response to Kentonio (Reply #199)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:47 AM

201. The hyperbole there certainly isn't reasonable.

Persecution complexes are very outre.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #201)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 12:12 PM

214. We're not persecuted

We've already infiltrated all levels of government to carry out our evil plans for world domination.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #10)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:35 AM

31. what protected status ?

He is not a democrat, he said so himself. Each time I am on a jury where somebody alerted on a post with the reason "don't bash democrats" and Bernie is the target, I vote against it.

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Response to drray23 (Reply #31)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:46 AM

99. It is in TOS. Bernie is mentioned by name.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #99)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:18 AM

134. Another guy protected, why isn't Hillary Clinton mentioned by name.

NO BAD MOUTHING DEMOCRAT HILLARY CLINTON.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #134)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:32 PM

222. She's covered in the "Don't Bash Democrats" language and she isn't based on DU.

...hardly even criticized since post-modem went away.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #10)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:22 AM

89. Agee

Why does this guy get a free ride to abuse democrats?

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Response to lillypaddle (Reply #89)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:48 AM

103. I don't know.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #10)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:47 AM

100. I suggest, in all seriousness, that we should petition ATA in that forum

It means doing it one post at a time, instead if the easy "click if you agree," but it follows the rules and might actually get more traction.

Like another poster in this subthread, I am increasingly inclined to let criticisms of Sanders stand when called to jury them. I give it hard thought, but this is getting ridiculous.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #100)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:50 AM

104. I agree with you.

We have to follow TOS when called for jury duty...but it kills me when I know many of the posters are responding to criticisms of the Democratic party.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #10)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:15 AM

130. Getting to that point, isn't it?

I think once BS is gone from the Outreach position, there is no reason to consider him in any way shape or form a Democrat.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #130)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:43 AM

156. By his own words that is true.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:54 AM

11. I would write my true feelings about this

but I have been "flagged" 3 times in past 24 hours for criticizing Bernie. I guess that isn't allowed anymore. I'm surprised this post was even allowed on DU.

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Response to Cane4Dems (Reply #11)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:58 AM

13. +1

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Response to Cane4Dems (Reply #11)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:02 AM

14. Been there, done that.

 

[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to Cane4Dems (Reply #11)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:35 AM

29. I have also been flagged repeatedly in the last few days. And NOTHING was over the top

 

or remotely close to "bashing".

This is messed up. The Jury system is being abused the same way it was in the primaries.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #29)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:39 AM

38. I had three posts hidden the reason for all three were for refighting the primary.

Not one was in regards to the primary...

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #29)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:46 AM

51. Me too

I had a post removed the other day (only my second or third over the 15 years I've been here). Maybe I got personal, maybe not. It was not some long diatribe, just a few sentences. But I really didn't feel it was anything more inflammatory than what I read here every day. I found it interesting that the criterion used was "don't bash Democratic figures." Note the capital D on Democratic. Well, I didn't criticize any "Democrat," but I'm not going to quibble that point.

Yes, we're seeing the return of the primary bullying. After years of seeing the Democratic figure of the President of the United States bashed repeatedly, suddenly the least criticism is now judged to be off limits. It's making me want to go really underground. But then that would be acceding to this kind of authoritarian one-think, and I kind of refuse to capitulate to it.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #51)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:05 AM

122. I was a Hillary supporter but...

I think this is the rule that Demsrule86 was referring to that gives Sanders protected status:

Don't bash Democratic public figures
Do not post disrespectful nicknames, insults, or highly inflammatory attacks against any Democratic public figures. Do not post anything that could be construed as bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for any Democratic general election candidate, and do not compare any Democratic general election candidate unfavorably to their general election opponent(s).
Why we have this rule: Our forum members support and admire a wide variety of Democratic politicians and public figures. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but our members don't expect to see Democrats viciously denigrated on this website. This rule also applies to Independents who align themselves with Democrats (eg: Bernie Sanders).

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #122)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 12:05 PM

210. I posted something positive

 

about Angus King and his work with Dems on the Russian Committee and they had a tantrum.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #51)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:50 AM

202. All I know is that if I was to post this sentence as my own

“I think what is clear to anyone who looks at where the Democratic Party today is, that the model of the Democratic Party is failing,”

I would in violation of terms of service here on DU as per "Support Democrats."

Sanders would not pass that test if he posted here.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #202)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:54 PM

232. I don't disagree at all

Just pointing to the TOS that was referred to as needing to be changed. Anyone who bashes the party is not helpful and should not be tolerated. At all.

Nonetheless, the best strategy might be to find good ways to overcome the Negative Nellies who constantly criticize instead of doing something constructive. Griping about it won't stop it. We need to take action against it. Some people have no real reason to want unity in the Democratic Party.


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Response to Cane4Dems (Reply #11)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:49 AM

54. It's BS' own words.. it should be allowed.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:58 AM

12. What the ...

What?

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:02 AM

15. Why doesn't Bernie join the socialist party?

 

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #15)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:11 AM

78. Listen to the millenials...how about the New Democratic Party.

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #15)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:51 AM

203. Good question. (nt)

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:05 AM

16. But...the little birdies like him. He looks good in a Ben & Jerry's carton.

 

He's so teddy-bear-loveable! And some of you call me ageist for wanting the septuagenarians to step down.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:09 AM

17. Bernie is about one person. BERNIE.

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Response to LibraLiz1973 (Reply #17)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:15 AM

19. That's what I said last week...

And a few folks on this forum got all upset about it.

Here's what I said:

Bernie wants all democrats to be socialist. Ain't gonna happen. It's apparent that he doesn't like democrats or republicans. Why didn't he run as the independent he is then? Because he wouldn't have been able to get the traction he needed, so he used the democrat's platform to spearhead his election chances. He didn't care about us then and he doesn't care about us now. Bernie has his own agenda.

That old adage: Democrats fall in love and Republicans fall in line is very true.


He acting it out everyday!

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Response to kytngirl (Reply #19)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:21 AM

183. BS is a reluctant endorser of fellow progressives

and has been for years....

There must be something that benefits him directly in order for him to do so. Endorsing a mayoral candidate on a very public tour, while pointedly refusing to call another very progressive candidate "progressive" certainly appeared to be a flexing of his authority in a way that he certainly knew would show the division between those that would fall in line with him, and those who would persist in their defense of social justice prioritization.

Nevertheless, we persisted.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #183)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 12:04 PM

209. Jane Kleep is an our revolution member or was and is now

the chair of the Democratic party in Nebraska.

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Response to LibraLiz1973 (Reply #17)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 12:34 PM

217. +1

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Response to LibraLiz1973 (Reply #17)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 04:16 PM

269. I said something similar a few days ago...Got a hide

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:20 AM

20. Contact the DNC

Let them know how you guys feel about Bernie. I watched the interview I think the sentence is taken a bit out of context as he was talking about models and internal organizational structure, which to be fair to his point is correct. Organizationally, the DNC could do a better job, I mean Trump, right? Or am I missing something?

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Response to Brogrizzly (Reply #20)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:43 AM

47. +1

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Response to Brogrizzly (Reply #20)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:50 AM

55. No, you're 100% on target.

Who on earth thinks the party doesn't need some changes after losing the most important election in our lifetime to an ignorant, misogynistic, CP believing grifter?

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Response to Brogrizzly (Reply #20)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:18 AM

135. Done. I am a registered Democrat.

I keep hearing "most people consider themselves independents."

Fine. But they usually don't vote for Independent candidates. They nearly always choose a candidate from one of the parties.

How they vote is the most important metric.


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Response to Brogrizzly (Reply #20)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:58 AM

205. We're in the worst shape since reconstruction

The party is in the worst shape it's been since reconstruction, but apparently you're not supposed to speak of that. The responses here don't actually dispute his point, they just complain that he made it at all.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:27 AM

21. So much for "unity"

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Response to George II (Reply #21)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:40 AM

42. It would have been better to do NOTHING AT ALL.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:30 AM

22. I was watching that interview with a couple friends over the weekend.

What all of us immediately thought when Bernie said this was:

- Bernie was given a LOT of control over creation of the party platform at the Convention.
- Bernie was given a LOT of control over rules changes at the national party level.
- Then after that was done, HE QUIT THE GODDAMN PARTY.

So I have this to ask Bernie - you got the changes in the party you wanted, you got the policy points you favored most into the party platform. Why then would you choose to quit the party and not see these changes through as one of the party's new leadership, and instead decide it's a better use of your time to criticize the changes you just made? That's one HELL OF A FUCKED UP HYPOCRITICAL WAY to show you want unity.

And people wonder why I chose not to support him during the primary (I was with O'Malley and stayed neutral after he dropped out).

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Response to Scoopster (Reply #22)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:35 AM

28. Good analysis, Scoopster.. I know..

it really doesn't make sense on the surface.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #25)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:35 AM

27. really??? for what? linking to slate that gives bernies exact words, just yesterday?

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Response to boston bean (Reply #27)


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #32)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:36 AM

34. linking to a story that states exactly what he said is attacking a democrat?

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Response to boston bean (Reply #34)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:42 AM

46. Go figure.. there's the exact OP in Vids..

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Response to boston bean (Reply #27)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:36 AM

33. Divisive group attacks.

was what it was alerted under.

Personally, I disagreed.

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Response to Amimnoch (Reply #33)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:37 AM

35. I like your sig line picture.



I might steal at some point!

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Response to boston bean (Reply #35)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:15 AM

181. You are absolutely welcome to.

Made that one myself, and it's open season for anyone who wants.

Note the use piss yellow for the number... since that's apparently #45's favorite color.

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Response to Amimnoch (Reply #33)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:47 AM

52. It's BS' own words.. so they agree.. he's divisive.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #27)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:02 AM

67. I got dinged again yesterday, too.

For years I never got a single post deleted. Now I've had multiple and it's all for talking about Bernie.

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Response to kcr (Reply #67)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 12:15 PM

215. Yup three times in one

 

day first time in 15 years and it was for calling out a new member with low posts attacking Dems was warned with permanent suspension as well.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #25)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:35 AM

30. Yep. I was a juror.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:38 AM

36. Does this mean the unity tour is over? I cannot take much more unity. n/t

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Response to seaglass (Reply #36)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:40 AM

41. lol.. that was a bust

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Response to seaglass (Reply #36)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:59 AM

61. It was a total fail. We deserve better. Doing nothing at all would have been better.

I fear the damage that has been caused is irreparable, and that breaks my heart.

It's unclear to me what they hoped to accomplish, or why anyone though that *this* was the way to advance anything that DEMOCRATS and the DEMOCRATIC PARTY stand for. I guess my expectations for our party's leadership was a little too high, too soon.

Back to the drawing board.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #61)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:01 AM

64. There was a huge amount of unity displayed on 1/21/2017. Why not keep building on that??

Nope.... had to make it seem like there was some great division that needed healing... Talk about self fulfilling prophecy.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #64)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:11 AM

79. That's a great question. If by "division" you actually mean "ego" then perhaps you're right.

Aside from that... this so-called "unity tour" has accomplished absolutely nothing positive. It did not benefit our great Democratic Party, nor did it benefit our best and brightest Democrats, nor did it help to strengthen our party.

What were they thinking???!! It was a fucking disaster. It was a sham. It was a total fraud. "Unity" my ass. Nothing good came of this!

Were they just winging-it and making it up as they go along? Was their no planning, no coordination?

Our party deserves better. I hope we get there some day.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #61)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:10 AM

76. Yes, I have seen many people on Twitter stating that they are no longer contributing to the DNC but

will only contribute to candidates direct until the DNC understands who the Democratic base is.

There was ZERO unity on this tour. When Bernie fans start out by booing Perez and Bernie has no response it's exactly like the primaries all over again. The only thing that happened in this "unity" tour is Bernie cementing his base but doing absolutely zero to bring them in as Democratic voters.

It feels like Perez is floundering and maybe he thought since Schumer and he had sucked up to Bernie there might be some support for the Democratic Party forthcoming.

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Response to seaglass (Reply #76)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:16 AM

84. I'm disappointed in Schumer and Perez (and Ellison for that matter)...

... for well-known reasons that I'll not belabor here. The Democratic Party and our best and brightest Democrats (candidates and supporters alike) deserve better than this fiasco. WE DESERVE BETTER!!!





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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:38 AM

37. Now I feel so unified!

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Response to NBachers (Reply #37)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:10 AM

178. I remember many here who said during the election

"I'm not going to just go along to get along" when asked why they would make the "perfect" be the enemy of "actually having a president that is qualified and progressive?"

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:40 AM

39. Hey BS.. you don't speak for me or any of my family or

friends. We see what's "failing" and it isn't the Democratic Party..

We're Strong and we're Moving Forward.. not gonna be dragged down by naysayers.

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Response to Cha (Reply #39)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:24 AM

185. And nevertheless, we persist. (nt)

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:40 AM

40. We won the popular vote



Somebody believes in us!

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Response to shenmue (Reply #40)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:41 AM

45. second most votes EVER!

What makes all of this really concerning is there is no mention of gerry mandering, voter suppression, russian hacking...

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Response to boston bean (Reply #45)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:01 AM

63. No mention of positive happenings.. always the BIG

BAD "DEMOCRATIC PARTY is a failure"...

Yeah right, BS.. not buying it.

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Response to shenmue (Reply #40)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:44 AM

49. Right, shenmue.. BS would rather talk "failure"

We're Strong and We're Moving Forward.. no time for negative crap.

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Response to shenmue (Reply #40)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:03 AM

70. The bashers say those votes don't count

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Response to shenmue (Reply #40)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:12 AM

179. Yes, especially when that is statistically incredibly after a party has 2 terms in the WH.

And she overcame that as well.

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Response to shenmue (Reply #40)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:12 AM

179. Yes, especially when that is statistically incredibly after a party has 2 terms in the WH.

And she overcame that as well.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:40 AM

43. Make Democrats Win Again



As far as the Vermont senator is concerned, the Democratic Party should become “a grassroots party, a party which makes decisions from the bottom on up, a party which is more dependent on small donations than large donations.” Once the party really takes up the issue of standing up “to the billionaire class,” then turnout will soar and Democrats will start winning again.

Sanders made his comments shortly after a poll identified him as the country’s most popular active politician, revealing that he is viewed favorably by 57 percent of registered voters. Yet he is also angering Democrats, in part because he refused to identify himself as a member of the party last week, preferring to continue to label himself as an independent. He also raised the ire of many in the party when he refused to wholeheartedly endorse the Democratic congressional candidate in Georgia Jon Ossoff.



He's not wrong. Economic populism appeals to a lot of Americans who voted for agent orange. Turn some of their hatred of minorities towards corrupt unpatriotic greedy people instead. "Greedy billionaires who look just like you are sending your jobs to China" is squishy and not as effective on paranoid frustrated people as "immigrants who look different from you are stealing your jobs and coming to kill you" and "lazy poor people are sitting on the couch getting fat off of benefits".

Many rust belt states are losing population while sun belt states are gaining. There is a massive jobs migration that impacts our electoral prospects. Even liberal California has lost around 5 million people over the last decade in spite of the tremendous success of silicon valley and some other coastal cities.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:40 AM

44. Sanders is not a Democrat and needs to go form is own Party. Stop latching on to one he wants to

bring down.

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #44)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:01 AM

66. You are literally advocating for a fatal split of the Democratic party with that statement. n/t

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Response to yodermon (Reply #66)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:29 AM

144. I don't think so. I think that if the GOP had nipped the Tea Party in the bud

They wouldn't have needed the Kremlin and Comey to hand the WH to their losing candidate.

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Response to yodermon (Reply #66)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:54 PM

231. No, not quite. I'm a Democrat. Bernie is not a Democrat.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:43 AM

48. Einstein had a few words to say on the subject:

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Response to BigBearJohn (Reply #48)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:45 AM

50. Yes.. so why would BS keep saying the same thing over

and over again?.. we get it.

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Response to Cha (Reply #50)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:54 AM

58. I think people give BS too much credence.

He is one politician, a small state senator, a democratic "independent" socialist. Granted he is popular and his angst against *insert progressive issue here* propels that popularity. But in reality he will go the way of McGovern, super popular with some, just meh with others. I'm more worried about dems that will vote to fund this border wall coming up, hopefully we can pressure some into not. But don't fret over BS Cha, I think given time what he says/does will be less impactful, just stay pro democrat and positive.

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Response to Brogrizzly (Reply #58)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:57 AM

60. You're sweet, Brogrizzly

Mahalo and Welcome to DUI'm trying

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Response to BigBearJohn (Reply #48)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:00 AM

62. Yeap, continuing to unfairly bash dems over and over again and expect dems to follow

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Response to BigBearJohn (Reply #48)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:30 AM

145. So we go backwards 40 years in terms of social justice? That's not change

that's suicide.

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Response to BigBearJohn (Reply #48)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 02:50 AM

286. Please STOP attributing a hokey aphorism from "the big book of Narcotics Anonymous" to Einstein.

Thanks.

https://www.quora.com/Did-Einstein-really-define-insanity-as-doing-the-same-thing-over-and-over-again-and-expecting-different-results

http://www.news.hypercrit.net/2012/11/13/einstein-on-misattribution-i-probably-didnt-say-that/

http://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/03/23/same/



The earliest strong match known to QI appeared in a pamphlet printed by the Narcotics Anonymous organization in 1981. Emphasis added to excerpts by QI: 2

The price may seem higher for the addict who prostitutes for a fix than it is for the addict who merely lies to a doctor, but ultimately both pay with their lives. Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results.

QI acquired a PDF of the document with the quotation above on the website amonymifoundation.org back in February 2011. The document stated that is was printed in November 1981, and it had a 1981 copyright notice. The website was subsequently reorganized, but the document remains available via the Internet Archive Wayback Machine database.

Instances of the saying have been employed by other twelve-step organizations such as Alcoholics Anonymous.





beyond that, I should think if one's "shop-worn wisdom" or bumpersticker whatever is so self-evident, it shouldn't need an attribution like Einstein to back it up. Personally, beyond perhaps some limited utility in substance abuse circles- yes, if every time you smoke crack you end up naked in the bottom of a dumpster caked in urine and vomit, this time probably won't end differently- I happen to think it's also a pretty weak general definition of "insanity", no matter who said it.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:49 AM

53. Bernie is correct. Diagnosis then treatment.

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Response to masmdu (Reply #53)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:01 AM

65. False diagnosis is to continue to leave out Russia, Comey and voter suppression

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #65)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:30 AM

92. Funny.. he never mentions Hillary got 3 Million more Votes than

drumpf, either.. lol

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Response to Cha (Reply #92)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:48 AM

101. +1, ... not getting this guy, but the BOD is shrinking slowly

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Response to Cha (Reply #92)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:31 AM

148. THOUGHTCRIME!!!! (NT)

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #65)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:24 PM

251. I agree that the voter suppression and Russian hacking was terrible but Comey was by far the worst.

The FBI was in the tank for Trump, or whoever the GOP nominated, going all the way back to 2015. They abused their power to severely damage HRC's reputation. This was the FBI's election from beginning to end.

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Response to masmdu (Reply #53)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:31 AM

147. Bernie is wrong on his diagnosis, and therefore the treatment. (nt)

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Response to masmdu (Reply #53)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:48 AM

160. No win and then win again.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:52 AM

56. I think the intentions...

...were good. Sanders and Perez got dragged away by the "media" wanting a fight...

The Democratic Party welcomed Bernie, had a system - the "caucus" system - which made sure he advanced and helped Hillary win the vote. He and she left Democrats progressive and energized!

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:53 AM

57. Asking for the Democratic party to change

Is not the same as insulting it or tearing it down.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #57)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:02 AM

68. It is when the change is based of an unfair critique that involves victim blaming vs an honest ...

... assessment of what happened with Russia, Comey and voter suppression.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #68)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:17 AM

86. False bifurcation. We can ALSO talk about our own weaknesses.

and what we can do to eliminate them.

As a party, we've been weak for Labor for a good decade or more. Pretty much since the tail end of the Clinton presidency.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2010/02/11/unions-bash-democrats-warn-political-fallout

And there were continued warning signs during the primaries on just that.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-idUSKCN0SP0HX20151031

For decades the Right has chipped away at family planning, and we've done pretty much nothing to push back. We oppose their depredations, and sometimes win, but we take losses. When's the last time we actually PUSHED BACK and WON? Can you even remember? I don't. Not outside a courtroom. On the legislature side, all we've done is slowly slip and lose ground since I was a teen.



Close elections can be finagled and even stolen. Sure.

Bottom line, it shouldn't have been close enough TO steal. You rail about Comey, and Russia (by the way, we interfere in theirs, they interfere in ours, since time immemorial) and that's great, some of us want to go back and shore up the actual beating heart base of the Democratic Party.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #68)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:27 AM

90. It's still not "tearing it down" or destroying it.

I agree with what you said regarding Bernie's approach, but people saying that he's tearing us down are being overdramatic.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #90)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:28 AM

143. Not overdramatic in the least. Especially considering that

Sanders doesn't consider the party worth joining, unless he needs to run for national office. Even then, only temporarily.

That in itself is a diss.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #143)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:40 AM

153. Thank god I don't have this cliqueish mindset

One of us or none of us like OMG YOU GUISE...

Sorry, this Democrat doesn't play that shit.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:04 AM

71. This should not hurt the Democratic party in the least ..

.. as long as they unite as Democrats!

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:04 AM

72. I'm tired of threads trashing Bernie.

Bottom line is we lost big. Considering the results in terms of Republican control of WH, both houses of Congress, the chance for them to nominate ANOTHER right wing Justice during Trump's term, GOP control of 32 state legislatures and 33 governorships and God knows how many local governments, we've clearly been doing SOMETHING wrong. Why is it so hard to do soul searching and revise our approach? We did laugh at the GOP in 2008 and 2012 for their glaring inability to do so. And they changed WAY for the worse. They ran Trump, for God's sake! He should NEVER, EVER have even come close to winning the election.

To me, when you fail big, and I have failed big a couple times in my life, you learn the lesson, get back up, dust yourself off, put a smile on your face, and climb back in the ring. Did you get that? First, you've got to learn whatever the lesson that put you flat on your back is. Then you get up and move forward.

But, no, here we are with the umpteenth thread trashing Bernie.



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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #72)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:50 AM

106. And, this is the biggest reason

I only visit DU to see n2doc's editorial cartoons and SCE's Sunday morning treat. I'm seldom here otherwise. The pernicious unwillingness to acknowledge glaring issues in the Democratic Party, and ADDRESS them, makes me sad beyond words.

"Bottom line is we lost big." I couldn't agree more.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #106)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:20 PM

220. +++1000. Cannot agree more. I seldom spend much time here anymore for

the same reason.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #72)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:52 AM

108. who is trashing Bernie ?

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Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #108)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 05:54 PM

273. This entire thread. See my post immediately below.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #273)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 02:19 AM

285. states exactly what he said is attacking a bernie?

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #72)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:33 AM

149. We won the popular vote. Perhaps the lesson you took is the wrong lesson. (nt)

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #149)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 05:52 PM

272. I don't think so. Because we still lost big, popular vote aside.

Maybe the message has to do more with aggressively engaging these forces at the grass roots level, such with the national popular vote movement. Maybe it has to do with trying to get local and state people elected.

I'll tell you what it does NOT have to do with, and that is trashing Bernie. He's one guy.

If we waste all this time and life force trashing Bernie or other left wing progressives in the party, then we are necessarily sacrificing time that might be spent 1) reframing the message, 2) strategizing how to get the message out in the face of the massive and well-funded GOP-corporate propaganda apparatus, and 3) focusing how we can better reach independents.

Again, bottom line, Bernie and Tom Perez are out there slugging, in red states, and trying to make a 50-state strategy happen. Why aren't we helping instead of trashing Bernie?

Thing is, Bernie's message is what most Americans want. Single payer. Expanded Social Security. Free state college up to the baccalaureate level. Stronger environmental constraints for polluters, and heavier emphasis on policies that move the market toward renewables, etc.

So why trash Bernie? He's doing something. So is Perez. So am I, for that matter.

Last word: if you've read your Zinn and Chomsky, you know all about the people FDR called 'economic royalists,' and are aware of how they have used the divide and conquer strategy over and over and over and over and over and over again. All through history. Now it is the Russian fucks that are paying trolls to come in and do bullshit like this.

Please don't take offense, but your righteous indignation might be best spent on the Russian issue and getting Trump impeached instead of trashing Bernie.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #272)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 06:01 PM

274. If resisting someone trying to move our party away from a pro-choice

platform = "trashing," maybe it's you who needs to brush up on your Zinn and Chomsky...

That's not trashing. That's standing up for our rights.

But thank you for the 'splaining my lack of "understanding" of what is and isn't progressive, and who cannot be critiqued without having the term "trashing" thrown at them.

Yeah, everything totally points to that career politician being right on everything.

But if he tries to "trash" reproductive rights, he is the one who will lose bigger than anyone else.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #274)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 06:06 PM

275. Don't give me the 'splaining meme. It is neither merited in this dialog nor is it

called for.

We have a platform and it is unapologetically pro-choice and pro-abortion services on demand. The fact Bernie endorsed some Dem guy running for a legislative position at the state level without properly vetting him is a mistake, not indicative that Bernie does not support choice.

C'mon.

And please refrain from accusing me of 'splaining. It is demeaning and offensive.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #275)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 06:09 PM

277. It was well earned.

Especially after this response.


And Bernie's been talking this way for years.

http://www.rawstory.com/2013/10/bernie-sanders-tells-ed-schultz-southern-democrats-are-tired-of-being-abandoned-by-the-party/

So, C'mon, I do sort of know what I'm talking about, thank you. Along with a whole lot of other people here. And out there

http://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2017/04/21/18966284/can-someone-remind-bernie-sanders-that-abortion-is-an-economic-issue

https://thinkprogress.org/abortion-is-economic-1b05be2b3d

https://rewire.news/ablc/2017/04/21/bernie-sanders-no-revolution-reproductive-rights/

http://feministing.com/2017/04/23/no-bernie-theres-no-economic-justice-without-abortion-access/

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/weekend-with-bernie-sanders-20150709

"Once you get off of the social issues — abortion, gay rights, guns — and into the economic issues," he says, "there is a lot more agreement than the pundits understand."

Social issues - not medical issues. As per Bernie.

Perhaps you should straighten them all out, and tell them to read their Zinn.

And "pro-abortion?" Really. C'mon.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #277)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 06:52 PM

280. Hey, I said pro abortion because words matter. Years ago, the so-called

'pro-lifers' objected strenuously to being called 'anti-abortion.' They made sure they fought so hard with the media that it became politically correct to say pro-life. But they are anything but, because they don't care at all about life once it comes from the womb.

If you'd look at my other numerous posts, I make the point that with three daughters and two granddaughters, I believe that no woman can truly be free in a social or an economic sense unless she has total control over if, when and under what circumstances she becomes a mother. Period.

That means that I am very much for abortion services on demand, and I call it that, unapologetically.

And, yes, I'm paraphrasing a Margaret Sanger quote, and no, I'm not a eugenics advocate.

As to your numerous links, I can remember earlier on this very site fighting hard against the meme that social justice is more important than economic justice and that anyone who advocates economic justice without bringing social justice front and center is a racist. Now, I'm not trying to refight the primary - instead I'm trying to refute your point. Because I'm not going to insult you by saying you're 'splaining to me. I'm simply going to argue my point.

My point is twofold:
1. We need to worry about, and focus on changing this:

?1486423946

2. And the mounting evidence a hostile foreign power messed with an American presidential election, and

3. And that by focusing on trashing Bernie and putting out all these links that supposedly make him a 'bad guy,' or ideologically impure, or whatever other pejorative term you want to use, we are in fact playing into the hands of economic royalists like the Mercers and the Koch brothers who love to laugh at how we focus our righteous indignation on each other as opposed to the fact they are robbing the treasury. Remember when Obama told us we cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good? That's exactly what this is. Yep, Bernie's impure ideologically in the sense that he sees economic justice as being really, really important and he doesn't spend much time with social justice. Yes, I know the two should go hand in hand. But please look me in the eye and tell me that:
a) you don't think single payer is a good idea and would improve our lives,
b) you don't think expanding Social Security is good for the nation, and
c) you don't think free postsecondary education at state colleges is a good idea.
d) you didn't see the photo of Bernie getting arrested at a sit-in protesting segregated dorms.

Because, you know, my life would sure be better with those three things. And yes, I do work for social justice, too. But again, let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THIS THREAD.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #280)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:04 PM

281. Not letting perfect be the enemy of good

Like when someone votes the way Bernie doesn't agree with?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #281)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:13 PM

282. No, wasting time trashing Bernie when we should be barnstorming right alongside him.

And I don't care what Bernie does or does not agree with. I care about my own take on the issues. That's called freedom of speech, political freedom and being a responsible citizen of a representative democracy (republic). All I'm pointing out is the futility of trashing Bernie instead of focusing on getting the traitor Trump and his cronies out of office and taking back seats at the local, state and national level.

You can dislike Bernie all you want. That's fine. But the overarching goal is to win back seats and get the political strength to promote policies of social and economic justice.

I mean, to me the analogy is that we are like a bunch of people flying in a jumbo jet. The passengers start a fight with each other and the pilots are so distracted from flying the plane that the whole thing crashes. All I'm saying is that instead of fighting each other so we crash, we need to work together. If Bernie is out there turning red states purple or even blue, then more power to him. Let's you and I do the same in our respective worlds.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #73)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:10 AM

77. He got all he wanted on his platform.. We have Strong Dems out

there Fighting the Fascistrumps.. all he does is try to divide the Democratic Party while he's on a unity tour

Trying to make himself look good and The Democratic Party look bad.

It's having the opposite effect.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #73)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:12 AM

80. It's not like Russians, Gerrymandering and Voter Suppression have anything to do with it.

 

And we did just get another DNC Chair. Two in fact. They are restaffing the whole organization.

BTW, Putin supports the far right AND the far left in democratic countries.

The Democratic party is firmly in Progressive territory as a whole. Maybe you aren't really familiar with it and just listen to the far left rhetoric that doesn't have real world facts attached to its accusations?



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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:08 AM

75. So much splaining going on here at DU

about how we all need to pipe down about "identity politics" and not be single issue voters, but actual progressive Corey Booker must be shunned and branded a "corporate shill" when he has the nerve to defy Bernie by voting no on a single symbolic amendment concerning importing drugs from Canada.

One week after he is lauded for his courage being the first sitting Senator to testify against a fellow Senator's confirmation for AG.

Because some single issues are WAY MORE IMPORTANT than others, as determined by self-defined "true" progressives.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #75)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:00 AM

117. +1000!

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #75)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 08:17 AM

293. I am so thankful for my IL.

I haven't had to put anyone on my IL since the primaries, but I will be relieved not to see your puerile and offensive drivel in future.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #293)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 08:39 AM

294. You're welcome. (nt)

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:14 AM

82. Do we still have to be nice to this guy?

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:14 AM

83. I'm glad this tour is over.

I hope Tom Perez turns to the work he promised to do on voter suppression. So sick of the bullshit.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #83)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:20 AM

88. The tour may be over, but the effects from the damage it caused ...

... well be felt for YEARS to come. YEARS!!!

I'm very disappointed in our party's leadership. Maybe I should put the word "leadership" in quotes, because I'm certainly not seeing a lot of smart decisions coming from those in whom we've placed our trust.

The Democratic Party and our best and brightest Democrats deserve better this.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #87)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:15 AM

182. The very selective bestowing of certain candidates with the blessing of "progressive"

while dissing other progressive, more nationally consequencial Democratic candidates was a rather effective way to fan the flames of discord, not unity.


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Response to ehrnst (Reply #182)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 12:03 PM

208. Jane Kleeb is the chair of the Democratic Party in Nebraska...

she was part of our revolution ...maybe still is I don't know...but now the mystery of why a nothing mayor's race is so important...that a candidate who has a long history of anti-choice votes is endorsed is solved.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:29 AM

91. Man..

..the hate is palpable in here.

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Response to Mercurian (Reply #91)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:45 AM

97. BS is trying to make himself look good and the Democratic

Party look bad.

It's having the opposite effect.

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Response to Cha (Reply #97)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:11 AM

125. Amazing how women just won't listen!!! The nerve

they have contradicting the men in the party.

Nevertheless they persisted....

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #125)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:13 AM

126. That's right, ehrnst.. We Be Persisting..

no matter how long it takes.

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Response to Mercurian (Reply #91)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:53 AM

110. seems legit !

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:35 AM

93. I'm growing tired of his act.

If Bernie was a committed Democrat, I'd welcome his constructive criticism and encourage him trying to make the party better. But that's not what he's doing.

He's returned to being nothing more than an outsider, who gets publicity and media coverage for taking pot shots at the party, which includes everyone giving their blood, sweat, and tears trying to fight back against the true deplorables in this fight.

What was the point of him switching parties last year if he was going to switch back to being an independent again? Surely he wasn't just trying to use the party's resources and infrastructure to run for President???

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:35 AM

94. The Democratic party has been losing on so many levels I'm sick at heart

Bernie's right, the Dem party is shrinking and we've lost hundreds of important seats across the country.

We are failing and I too believe we must address this

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Response to Arazi (Reply #94)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:44 AM

96. We have a bunch of Winners in the Democratic Party..

all BS is doing is trying to make himself look good and the Democratic Party look bad.

It's having the opposite effect.

ETA.. Winners like Jon Ossoff who BS dismissed on Election Day in Georgia.. didn't even know the Pro-Choice candidate was a PROGRESSIVE..

went right over his head.

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Response to Cha (Reply #96)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:02 AM

120. latest poll: 67% think that the Democratic Party is out of touch

 

ignoring the canary in the coal mine is a losing strategy

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #120)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:37 AM

151. And going backwards in terms of social justice is a "winning" strategy?

I don't think so. Maybe for white straight men, but not the majority of the actual party.

Perhaps going forward instead of backwards is the winning strategy.

I think that gerrymandering has given the GOP a disproportionate number of reps, and Democrats are frustrated with that.

Addressing why it takes more Dems to get a rep elected than a GOP rep would likely bring those numbers up.

Alienating the base by throwing them under the bus sure as hell won't.

If Bernie's vision is the future of the party, he's the absolute worst messenger to make the case, because it sounds like going backwards.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #151)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:53 AM

165. having two thirds of the population say that you are out of touch is the very definition....

 

of going backwards. Facing reality is the key to winning.

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #165)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:05 AM

174. Respondents of one survey is not "2/3 of the population"

Just as faulty a statement as "the majority of the population selected DT for president"

And can you tell me specifically what those respondents mean by "out of touch" - because I can't tell from that survey question. Perez taking Bernie on a Unity Tour certainly gives me the impression that the DNC is out of touch.

One question on one survey needs to be put into persepective.

Like the survey where Bernie has dropped 12% in approval ratings in VT and increased 9% in disapproval since September of last year.
Leahy has risen in that poll, so perhaps the people of VT are feeling like BS is out of touch.

https://morningconsult.com/senate-rankings-april-2017/

Reality is that Hillary was the choice of the people. Russia and Comey stole the WH.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #174)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:33 AM

190. the only change needed is to get rid of Bernie Sanders....that is the message that I am getting.

 

leave us be, and let us get on with the difficult task of losing elections.

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #165)

Wed Apr 26, 2017, 01:04 PM

306. You don't decide values based on polls...

Women's rights are human rights.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #306)

Wed Apr 26, 2017, 01:30 PM

308. No, but the polls reveal perceptions of the party that decide future elections

 

As long as the party message is perpetually tempered to protect the sensitive feelings of corporations, Democrats will continue to regain power only after the latest Republican policy induced economic disaster, and only temporarily until the economic ship is righted.

The message of the '92 Clinton campaign is always the one to keep in mind in every election. "It's the economy, stupid."

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #120)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:50 AM

162. And who do you think is causing people to think this way?

You can't run a party down constantly when you are supposedly a 'supporter' and not cause damage. If the GOP and Trump win...it will be because of this behavior.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #162)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:57 AM

170. A party that is confronted by the truth, yet refuses to change, is not being "run down"

 

The party simply cannot justify what it has been doing.

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #170)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:47 AM

200. constant criticism is driving the negative

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Response to Arazi (Reply #94)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:00 AM

116. I assume you are working on restoring the VRA

and ending gerrymandering.

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Response to Arazi (Reply #94)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:24 AM

137. Well, maybe the party needs to go forward, not backward 30 years

by throwing women, POC, LGBTQs under the bus in a vain attempt to service the wishes of white men.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:40 AM

95. I wish people would stop worrying about BS.

Regardless of what this one politician says or does, our fight is not with him. It's the insanse republicans policy's, budgets, and agendas. Bernie Sanders is not going to try to repeal Obamacare or rollback the EPA, let him say whatever he wants, let him fart rainbow glitter ponies for all I care. I don't want a border wall, I know he doesn't either, so let him and his popularity aka his base align in on the issues we align. I don't think the Democratic Party as an institution is going anywhere, so stop worrying about fricken BS. Concentrate on the republicans and the shit storm walking that is Trump.

Sorry Rant off.

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Response to Brogrizzly (Reply #95)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:07 PM

240. As soon as the MSM stops paying attention to him, we will stop worrying about him. nt

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #240)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:00 PM

259. Right, the same MSM that broadcasted Trump hi and low for ratings.

That is also creating these non stories with BS. Stop fricken worrying about BS, worry about Paul Ryan instead. Or how your local house members are voting and calling them, instead of worrying about BS? BS is not going to vote to repeal Obamacare, right? Or am I wrong?

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Response to Brogrizzly (Reply #259)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:10 PM

261. It is very possible for most of us to walk and chew gum at the same time.

We can be concerned about Bernie's unhelpful statements AND oppose Paul Ryan, too.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #261)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:28 PM

265. Again, this specific statement I believe is taken out of context.

But by all means sound the alarm bells on Bernie Sanders, you know, since he's the "real" problem with the Big D, and little d Democratic policy and practices. I just wish people spent more time chewing Ruby Red bubble gum then, because you only get so many sticks in a pack, shame to waste them. Like, it's a shame to waste time worrying about fricken Bernie Sanders, literally, useless, what? He has a secrect agenda? Or what he doesn't put a D next to his name? Who cares, Bernie Sanders is popular, that's all he is, he represents Vermont. He has a following, great, good for him. That following doesn't translate diddly unless it's put into action, if he helps democrats by mobilizing said following, what is there to lose? I just don't really care what he says from day to day, like theirs this cat fight going on inside the DNC. I only care about what Trumps pushing and whose pushing back. It's all about resisting Trump for me anyways.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:45 AM

98. He obviously can't see all of our winning...

 

I mean the Democratic party wins have been just so bigly. I mean just beautiful, fantastic wins.

Enough of Sanders and his fake diagnosis. He is just biased.

Besides, how could anyone have seen what happened coming? Voter suppression? Republican dirty tricks? A biased media, particularly against a Clinton? Who could have seen any of that coming. Oh sure maybe Mrs. Sanders with had some sort of magic crystal ball that could have let him see those crazy things happen before they did but in the real world, who could have possibly ever had any kind of warning that those things would happen and we should have been prepared for them?

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:50 AM

105. Bernie speaks the truth

The DNC and all the factions of the party have about a year , maybe less, to hash out their differences and develop a 50 state strategy that wins back congress. It might get messy and ugly, as paradigm-shifting change often does, but is necessary in order to win the mid-terms in 2018.

Hint: the DNC continuing to stay the course with fat cat donors and neoliberal, "my way or the highway" tactics is a losing strategy, IMO.

Constructive, unvarnished criticism of the DNC's failures is necessary to transform the party into a progressive party that effectively serves the interests of a broad range of Americans.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #105)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:57 AM

111. You are right, but constructive criticism is really tough for some to face

Just looking at lots of the backlash on this thread alone. But hey, if we don't fix it and revolutionize things, we can only look forward to more fascism and failures.

It's really not that hard to figure out. Let's just put on our objective thinking caps, and be logical.

(Well for some that may be too hard lol)

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Response to Kimchijeon (Reply #111)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:59 AM

115. All BS does is divide the Democratic Party with his

his insults.. that's not Constructive. The Unity Tour was a bust.

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Response to Kimchijeon (Reply #111)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:51 AM

163. NO such thing as constructive criticism...when you are in the fight of your life. nt

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:52 AM

107. Note to all the Bernie bashers on this thread

Bernie is right. "The Model of the Democratic Party is failing."
The Democratic Party has lost over 1000 seats in state legislators in the last 6 years. They have lost governorships in many states. They got an ass whipping in the last national election.
How many times do we have to get smacked long side the head before we get the message?

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Response to tiredtoo (Reply #107)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:57 AM

112. Note to BS.. Stop insulting the Democratic Party..

some Unity Tour you're on.. you're divisive and tearing it apart.

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Response to Cha (Reply #112)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:56 PM

234. cha

totally missed the point of my post but, carry on.

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Response to tiredtoo (Reply #234)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 06:14 PM

278. I think the point I made is relevant to our Democracy

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Response to tiredtoo (Reply #107)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:02 AM

119. How about voter are more selfish, greedy, bigoted and less civic minded?

 

The Democratic party model raised the standard of living and provided health and economic security from millions of Americans and literally grew the middle class for decades.

WTF are people talking about? It's they do not recognize that the Democratic "establishment" is made up the most patriotic, altruistic, progressive civic and political leaders of the previous century. Sure we had our group of bigots and racists who left to become the modern GOP party as we know it today. But give me a break! HRC ran on the most progressive platform of my lifetime and I am over 70. Socialists have always been around and have never been able to convince the majority of Americans that what they stand for is great for America.

If Bernie wants a party to lead, he should start one and leave us the fuck alone!

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Response to nikibatts (Reply #119)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:04 PM

238. nikibatts

Yes they did all those good things. Back when we had true liberals like FDR and LBJ.
HRC ran on a progressive program pushed on her by Bernie and his supporters.
If age means anything, I am 76 years old. I put all my support behind Bernie in the primary. When Hillary won, i put all my support behind her. When Bill Clinton figured out how to get the Wall Street money, he won the presidency but alas he had to pay the piper. Then came NAFTA and additional corporate interests.
You all remember Obama's chief of staff and his notorious Fuck the unions quote or perhaps you don't. Take off your rose colored glasses of days gone by and think about what is going on now.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:52 AM

109. This will blow over

Hopefully soon.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:05 AM

121. Bernie needs to stop making this shit all about him

Because it's getting stale

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #121)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:10 AM

124. And so many more people are noticing..

That ship sailed.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:10 AM

123. hisssss

.

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Response to nini (Reply #123)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:14 AM

128. I agree!

lolfeel better?

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Response to Cha (Reply #128)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:15 AM

131. a bit..

though I'm at work LOL

thanks

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Response to nini (Reply #131)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:17 AM

133. Cheers to Monday..

at work.. lol

:loveay:

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:15 AM

132. "The Model of the Democratic Party"

It is hardly failing. Give us our very own nationally available TV channel, constantly blasted from airports and bars, fitness studios and train stations, about five billion dollars worth of black money put into Super-PACS, and give those advantages the time to flip about twenty state legislatures and governorships to gerrymander states to our advantage, and you'll see how successful our model is.

If someone gives your uneducated, under-talented neighbor five billion dollars for the mere reason that he hates all people who are not like him, does THAT make him more successful than you are? No, only wealther, unless wealth is your only measure of success.

If the Republicans got away with all that, and still have to use all their underhanded cheating ways to "win" elections, that's a sign of "victory," not success.

"Ustedes vencerán, porque poseen la fuerza bruta. Pero no convencerán."--Miguel de Unamuno, addressing the Spanish Fascists in 1936. He was protesting the speech of a Fascist general who had just ended a speech crying, "ˇViva la muerte!" He might as well have been one of our supposedly "pro-life" Arkansas Republicans drooling at the mouth to get their executions in before the end of the month.

Wealth, to my eyes, is not synonymous with success, and persistence in the face of adversity is not synonymous with failure.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:22 AM

136. Thanks Bernie!!!!

 

That's SSSSSOOOOOOooooooo helpful.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:24 AM

139. I'm relatively new to DU and no political scientist, but it has been

obvious for some time now that there has been an ongoing and concentrated effort to sow the maximum amount of dissent among members by certain posters who apparently represent their own shadowy agendas. Because democracy is an often messy process it is easy to allow those elements to manipulate the impressionable. I say this simply as a warning and reminder that there are bigger fish to fry. Simple - united we stand, divided we fall. Pardon the cliche. Note: Ask who benefits?

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Response to boston bean (Original post)


Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:35 AM

150. If Bernie runs in 2020 as an Independent...

We will all lose. Be careful about trashing him.

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Response to SpicyBoi (Reply #150)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:53 AM

167. That would be a fine legacy for Bernie...to become the Nader of 2020. I doubt he would do this.

One thing that won't happen is a run as a Democrat since he went back to being an independent after 2016.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:41 AM

154. i worry our party could be hijacked...

...and blindsided like the GOP was. We need to be very watchful and leery of all advocates. They may only be in sheep's clothing and we need to be able to tell them apart from real supporters. trust no one.

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Response to samnsara (Reply #154)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 10:54 AM

168. I agree ....but it seems to me Democrats are realizing more and more who is on their side and

who is not.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:00 AM

172. yeah, but only if you consider winning important ....

https://newrepublic.com/article/138897/democrats-biggest-disaster

The losses in November are part of a sharp and unprecedented decline for the party at the state level. Since Obama took office eight years ago, Democrats have lost over 800 seats in state legislatures. For the first time in history, they do not control a single legislative chamber in the South. Overall, the party is now at its weakest point at the state level since 1920.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:04 AM

173. So that's why she only beat Trump by 3,000,000 + votes

Hmmm.

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Response to rock (Reply #173)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:43 PM

228. and why we've been losing down-ticket elections for a while now, which is what he states in the

 



conversation. There are things to either support or criticize in what he said, but at least address his evidence if you're going to do a rofl.

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Response to rock (Reply #173)

Wed Apr 26, 2017, 12:42 PM

305. But why she lost the states she needed to win the EC.

this party has neglected everything else but the Presidency in recent years. And until we rid ourselves of the EC, whomever the Democrats nominate has to compete in all the usual places.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:06 AM

175. It is hard to categorize a model

that has lost control of the senate, the house, nearly 2/3 of the states, the courts, and the presidency as a success.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:29 AM

189. He can advise the Dem party when he puts a "D" by his name.

Dems were fooled again. More division ahead.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:33 AM

191. Isn't he right when you look at and compare GOP gains vs Democratic

losses in elected positions over the past 6 years?

Seems like Pelosi, Durbin and others agree with him. And didn't the Senate Democrats make him chair of Party Outreach?

Bernie's always been straight-forward. In fact, that's one of the things many of his supporters appreciate about him. I don't know why anyone is surprised that he is saying what he actually thinks. I'm sure his counterparts in the Senate knew that about him when they chose him for his current role. I'm pretty sure they knew he would be saying these things.

But all of this complaining about him may affect things. Maybe enough outcry can undermine the support he currently has with current party leadership. We shall see. ... I would be disappointed if that does occur. In my view, Bernie's pushing us in the right direction.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:42 AM

197. If I was to post this sentence as my own on DU - the post would be hidden for TOS violations

“I think what is clear to anyone who looks at where the Democratic Party today is, that the model of the Democratic Party is failing.”

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:53 AM

204. ENOUGH, dammit, Bernie

Stop. Just STOP. Stop pretending you care about the Democratic Party or the American people when you never EVER lose an opportunity to trash the Democratic Party. Nobody thinks the party is perfect, bur REALLY. You have nothing good to say about the party you're supposed to help with "outreach." The outreach seems to be limited to white working class males. Left out are women, African Americans, LGBTs, anyone considered a minority. Oh, yes, those come "later."

Sanders thinks of himself as a savior, egged on by his adoring fans. He has actually DONE nothing to justify that. Sure, he's good at attracting crowds to the rallies he loves. But actual accomplishments? Not so much.

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Response to NastyRiffraff (Reply #204)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 12:10 PM

213. If your 'revolution' doesn't implicitly and explicitly include a rejection of misogyny, racism,

and other bigotries, and you aren't centering intersectional analysis in your solutions, then you're not staging a revolution; you're staging a change in management.


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Response to ehrnst (Reply #213)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 12:17 PM

216. +1,000

Well said.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 12:00 PM

207. what's controversial?

 

Did the party lose 1000+ plus seats in less than 10 years? Yes.
Did it lose the last Presidential election? Yes.
Did it lose majorities in Congress and the Senate? Yes.

Where the evidence that the model is succeeding?

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Response to lies (Reply #207)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:24 PM

221. How many examples of problems with your superficial analysis do you want?

 

Your analysis does not take into account:

- Redistricting
- Voter Suppression
- Comey
- Russian subversion

Etc.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #221)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:59 PM

235. Sorry but

 

The Democrats had lost hundreds and hundreds of seats before last year.

So... try again?

Besides, as you know Clinton was NEVER extremely popular or trusted, nor did she provoke much in the way of energy on the trail.

I voted for her, before you flip out, but I have an EXTREMELY hard time thinking that the party is doing great (no leaders, no vision, divided, etc.) even with the issues you bring up.

It takes some pretty rose colored glasses to look at this and think Democratic Party policies are working - at all.



"In) 2017, Republicans will have total control of government in at least 25 states, and partial control in 20 states. According to population calculations by the conservative group Americans for Tax Reform, that translates to roughly 80 percent of the population living in a state either all or partially controlled by Republicans."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/12/these-3-maps-show-just-how-dominant-republicans-are-in-america-after-tuesday/

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Response to lies (Reply #235)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:13 PM

244. You should be sorry, because redistricting and voter suppression

 

has disenfranchised and disempowered a lot of people going back many years.

Discounting that is something you should definitely be sorry about.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #244)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:22 PM

250. The thing is... again...

 

Democrats lost BEFORE their was voter suppression and gerrymandering... that's how Republicans were able to push those things. First Democrats lost, then Republicans got power, THEN they rigged the system as best they could where they could.

You can't just blame dirty tricks for all Democrats' problems though, that's IMO delusional.

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Response to lies (Reply #250)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 03:25 AM

288. You're not recognizing all that went into taking down

Hillary.. comey, Voter suppression, the fucking Lies of the 3rd party trolls, the Russian Hacking. the fucking M$M

Don't be throwing that word "delusional" around

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Response to Cha (Reply #288)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 05:39 AM

289. And you

 

Are ignoring the hundreds and hundreds of seats lost between 2010 and 2014.

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Response to lies (Reply #289)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 05:59 AM

290. No, I'm not. They sat home on their hands..

wanted to teach a lesson.. Or lazy.

They're as much to blame for not as much getting done with a Democratic Congress for President Obama.. as the fucking 3rd party is for trump.

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Response to lies (Reply #207)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:10 PM

241. You're right

A lot of liberals seem to want to pretend that there is no problem. It's impossible to find a solution when you deny there is even a problem.

After the GWB disaster, Democrats had control of the executive and legislative branches of government, but that only lasted two years. They allowed Republicans to control the narrative, which led to Democrats losing more and more seats and which led to Trump. While Hillary won more votes than Trump, she should have won in a landslide. Instead, we have Orange Hitler in the White House.

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Response to benpollard (Reply #241)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:13 PM

245. No, they are not. Ignoring inconvenient facts will never produce a right answer. nt

 

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Response to benpollard (Reply #241)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 06:01 AM

291. They're are lots of things to work on .. but BS isn't

the answer with his division and what he touts.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 12:06 PM

211. There goes Bernie giving Trump quotable quotes again. Just like his "she's unqualified" remark.

As if Trump needs help making up lies.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #211)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 12:09 PM

212. OMG. It sort of does seem like something you would see in a trump tweet.

Never thought of it like that!!

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #211)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 06:02 AM

292. Yes, he's so helpful like that.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 12:43 PM

218. I refused to remake the Democratic party into the image of Sanders

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:37 PM

224. He wants us to support these guys

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/04/i-feel-used-up-carrier-workers-arent-happy-about-losing-jobs-after-trumps-deal/?comments=disqus

Who despite getting figuratively screwed in the ass by Trump still support him according to the article.

Sorry Bernie these people are a lost cause.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:41 PM

226. This makes sense when you resign yourself to who he really, actually is.

I cant say it here for two reasons

a. i will take endless shit for it

b. i honestly think my position on he and thom is unhealthy for me

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:42 PM

227. I think someone should tell him to stop the criticism of the party and fire on Trump.

 

Sanders is not having a good April and it is his own doing.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:56 PM

233. I am new and I don't get the bashing

I am new here. I have been seeing alot of anger towards each other everywhere and I just don't get it. Didn't the Primary end a long time ago?
Why are we fighting each other?
I was a supporter of Bernie Sanders (and for the record I am a 60 year old grandmother in the mid west). I don't get this anger and accusation that Bernie hates women. Or those who support Bernie hate women. I certainly do not hate myself. I have always, even a child in the 1960s, thought girls and women were equal to men and boys. That anything they can do we can do better. I grew up with feminist thinking.
And not all feminists supported Hillary.
I certainly liked Hillary as a person. I found her engaging. I just have been a huge FDR fan since my early 20s and Sanders spoke like a New Dealer and espoused policies I long believed in.
I just don't get why there is this ongoing anger towards Bernie Sanders.
Why people who supported Hillary are still so angry.
I live in a small midwest city devastated by outsourcing. It was a manufacturing place. Alot of blue collar. And unlike the stereotypes alot of working class men supported women and their rights. Were not flaming racists. Did not spend time going to NASCAR and shoot guns. They were just family guys.
But, my town is now dealing with crime and herion addiction. We have a town falling apart and looking like it was bombed out in come areas.
Economic issues are family issues. People's issues. You cannot foster good will when people are hurting and fighting for the crumbs left to us by the 1%.
I am sorry but, I just do not get the ongoing hate towards Bernie and his supporters.
One reason I am and have always been a democrat is because we were open minded, open to new ideas, to change and to understand those who don't always agree with our ideas. If someone has a different idea on an issue, they were not seen as bad and should be blackballed. We tried to understand where they are coming from.
We also, talked to people of all ideas and did not make them villians.
So, please, why all the hate towards each other and people who may have new ideas or different ideas.

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Response to lovemydogs (Reply #233)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 01:59 PM

236. How can this OP be bashing?? It is Bernies own words.

Unless you mean betnie is bashing.

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Response to lovemydogs (Reply #233)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:12 PM

242. Yeah I don't know why Bernie keeps bashing the Dems.

They allowed a non-Democrat to run in their primaries. They negotiated the platform with him. They produced a plan for free college tuition that he liked better than his own (he just introduced Hillary's plan into a bill in Congress).

And yet every time I turn around he's bashing the party and/or its leaders.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:04 PM

239. Bernie is right

The Democratic party has become a moderate conservative party. For it to have a future, it needs to become a progressive party.

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Response to benpollard (Reply #239)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:12 PM

243. Nonsense. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #243)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:41 PM

255. It has become a center right party.

Even Bill Clinton said the party was the democratic Eisenhower party. It was a centrist right party

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Response to lovemydogs (Reply #255)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:10 PM

262. You obviously didn't read the platform if you can call it a center-right party. nt

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:21 PM

248. I hope he won't run again in 2020. nt

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:54 PM

257. Latest polling shows this clearly

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-trump-100-days-honeymoon-regrets-poll/story?id=46943338

[T]he national survey [...] finds some brighter spots for the president –- chiefly in pushing for jobs and in foreign policy [...]
...
[The poll] finds no evidence of buyer's remorse among Trump supporters. Among those who report having voted for him in November, 96 percent today say it was the right thing to do; a mere 2 percent regret it.
Snip

In March 2014, 48 percent of Americans said the Democratic Party was out of touch with the concerns of most people. Today 67 percent say so. And the biggest change has occurred chiefly among the party's own typical loyalists, with "out of touch" ratings up 33 points among liberals, 30 points among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents and 26 points among moderates and nonwhites alike.

Snip

Among Americans who say they voted in the 2016 election, 46 percent say they voted for Hillary Clinton and 43 percent for Trump, very close to the 2-point margin in the actual popular vote results. However, while Trump would retain almost all of his support if the election were held again today (96 percent), fewer of Clinton's supporters say they’d stick with her (85 percent), producing a 40-43 percent Clinton-Trump result in this hypothetical re-do among self-reported 2016 voters.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:20 PM

264. TranslationThe only way the Democratic Party could be seen as suceeding is if it had nominated me'.

Why does this man get to speak for us in the national media? The PTB should either have a Come-To-Jesus with Sanders, or they should do what I wish they had done from the start.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:35 PM

266. It is clear that Sanders is causing additional fighting in the Democratic ranks

How is that useful? I think is reasonable that if Bernie wants those in the Democratic Party to take his suggestions seriously, he should register as a Democrat and declare himself as such. It is difficult to take seriously the suggestions of someone who has run against Democrats on a regular basis.

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Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #266)

Tue Apr 25, 2017, 03:20 AM

287. I think he should stop trying to tear down the

Democratic Party to build himself up.

No Democratic Senator would accuse our Party of being "feeble" and "can't fight back".. they want to keep building on Hillary's Platform positively..

Not every time they have mic.. take cheap pot shots.. that only helps the M$M, the gop, and the Fascistrump.

I know I'm not the only one who sees this..

Hey, Cajun

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Mon Apr 24, 2017, 06:15 PM

279. This just in.

Last edited Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:13 PM - Edit history (1)

If the last three stolen elections (Gore, Keery, Clinton) don't sound an alarm, I don't know what would.

To be clear, once she won the primary I volunteered, phone banked regularly, and donated. Also brought goodies to the campaign hq. I never said or wrote a negative word about Hilary Clinton because I respect and adore her tremendously and am beyond grateful she stepped up to serve. She would have been an outstanding President. I am still really busted up about our loss.

We're like Charlie Brown and the football. I do take it very seriously as we're sitting here in the middle of the Pacific with a big red target on us, our neighbors in South Korea and Japan are afraid for their lives due to the ravings of two certifiable loons who should never, never have risen to power.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Wed Apr 26, 2017, 11:27 AM

302. I've been careful not to bash Bernie because I actually like Bernie.

But the bottom line is - - - -if the Democratic party is so damn bad, why did he insist on running to gain the nomination of that party?

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