Tough Luck Destroyers of Hillary Clinton: You Won the Battle, You Wont Win the War

[Little Star]

I know that this article is going to make many people feel uncomfortable or even angry. But we all seem to be discussing how the democratic party can be better, and this article really hit home for me.

I ask that you read it with an open mind. I don't make many OP's but this time, this 71 year old woman has to somehow state how she feels. It does at times discuss the primary but in terms of the outcome of the general election. Here it goes.

Enough. I’ve had enough. Enough of your whiny laments about Hillary Clinton. You thought you knew Hillary when the primary campaign began. You knew the sound of her voice and her laughter and you made up your mind that those things bothered you. You thought the way she smiled — or when she chose not to — told you a lot about her, but your sneers told us more about you. You decided that a lifetime devoted to politics had ruined Hillary, even when the only alternatives on the ballot were a man mired in politics for 30 years who never got anything done and a man who knew nothing about anything who spent a lifetime devoted to fraud.

Either you never knew or you never cared that Hillary polled higher than everyone else when the race began (yes, even higher than Bernie Sanders) but you sure loved to crow when a systematic take-down caused her popularity to dip. As soon as the media saw that picking Hillary apart got more viewers than lifting her up, we got an earful — from men our age, men older than us, men younger than us — eager to lecture us constantly about Hillary Clinton, didn’t we? And it’s still going on. It’s the lecture that never ends. It spreads like a virus, sexually transmitted from dudebro to dudebro, so by now every manchild out there with a gripe against Hillary has added his voice to the giant monster that ate this election.

Men like these hate women like Hillary especially when those women attain positions of power. These men all say, “Oh, I’d vote for Elizabeth Warren or Kamala Harris.” Sure, pal. Sure you would. Let’s see what happens once they become actual threats. Right now you like them because you can frame them as plucky Frank Capra heroines but just wait until they actually start wielding real power and begin winning votes, or worse, “robbing” votes from your iconic male idols.

Now a new book Shattered has rushed to publication, attempting to vindicate perpetual crybabies like Bill Maher and others with 320 pages of breathless anecdotes about how Hillary screwed this thing up. TV personalities who make millions riling up crowds need easy explanations for their wisecracks and sound-bites because what if the real reason reveals something deeper and darker about the American identity?

https://medium.com/sashastone/tough-luck-destroyers-of-hillary-clinton-you-won-the-battle-you-wont-win-the-war-e4318c76f960

[Me.]

1. KR

[FreepFryer]

2. Prevailing is what we do. Stay strong, stay brave.

"We have not come this far without a struggle and I assure you we cannot go further without a struggle.

{...} We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace—business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.

They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.

Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred."

-- some other establishment Democrat from a "failed dynasty"

[cilla4progress]

4. Frickin

awesome.

[asiliveandbreathe]

9. We need another FDR - inspiring words - we have not come this far - just to come this far....

I think I heard those words from T Brady..

I will say, never give up, never give in, RESIST..against all odds, and oddities...

Tks for sharing....

[PatrickforO]

77. FDR was great, but he had a media that was relatively unbiased,

reporters with at least some integrity, and the speculation (on my part) that the economic royalists whose hatred he welcomed were actually more scared of revolution and the USA going red than of the prospect of an FDR presidency. And, actually, you can make a good historical case for FDR actually being the savior of capitalism - because the New Deal bought about a 40 year period of unprecedented prosperity and allowed the big capitalists to earn big profits from government contracts. Everybody made money. But that wasn't enough. People like the Koch brothers, the Mercers and other billionaires wanted more and more and more control. In fact, they increasingly consider our government their appendage.

But now they have successfully used sophisticated propaganda techniques and corporate money to brainwash a huge segment of our population into xenophobes who live in fear of big gummint, think regulation is 'job killing,' watch with an eagle eye that we don't give anybody anything they didn't 'earn' and honestly believe we all pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps.

That said, we do need some populist firebreathers. There are far too few.

[FreepFryer]

92. We were made for these times and we can and will triumph. (n/t)

[Wounded Bear]

3. K & R ......good read...nt

[NurseJackie]

5. Thank you! Well worth the read! Outstanding!

[m-lekktor]

6. Damn, "Shattered" has really touched a nerve! nt

[JTFrog]

7. The Russian Trolls love that book. nt

[FreepFryer]

8. Don't they just? Excellent troll detector litmus if u ask me. (n/t)

[2naSalit]

13. And just who are the authors? ...nt

[FreepFryer]

60. Exactly. (n/t)

[Cha]

75. Yes, regular ol rw trolls are drooling over it too.

[LisaM]

56. A nerve that was exposed by the same cabal that are responsible for this book.

I'm sorry if you don't see that.

[Skittles]

69. because it is garbage

and we are FED UP with it

[Cha]

74. Oh you mean the freakin' Feeding the Hillary Hate Machine..

that so many are drooling over?

[sheshe2]

10. + infinity

Thank you Little Star...excellent read.

[PatSeg]

11. I have seen this from men that I've known

"Men like these hate women like Hillary especially when those women attain positions of power." Sometimes the hate is deep seated and totally irrational. It is also contagious and eventually many women pick up on it as well. Often the mainstream media just reflects back the hatred to their audiences who take it as a confirmation of their own feelings.

The only woman I can see our society electing as president is a hypothetical one. I thought we'd come farther than this, but sadly, I was very wrong.

[ehrnst]

22. And they don't have the self awareness to face the misogyny that they have

and comfort themselves that they would Totes vote for Liz Warren, so they can't be sexist.

Until she goes and does something like endorse HRC.

[PatSeg]

52. Many really don't think they are misogynistic

much like racists who really don't believe they are racist, even though their attitudes and behavior say otherwise.

Yeah, everyone loves Warren, but watch that love evaporate if she becomes a presidential candidate. Obviously we judge our candidates on many levels, but we do not judge women the same way we judge men. And why is it that women are expected to smile all the time and not just in politics - journalists, newscasters, comedians, etc.?

[ZX86]

90. Considering the attitudes towards

Tulsi Gabbard, Jill Stein, and Susan Sarandon around here lately I find this post highly ironic.

[PatSeg]

95. I'm sorry

But I haven't really read any posts about any of them recently, so I can't really respond.

[delisen]

12. "The Lecture That Never Ends."

Just weeks after the Women's March inspired people everywhere to fight for Democracy and Equality, the Lecture That Never Ends took its show on the road.

The Lecture that Never ends will drone on and on and on..........until it fades to background noise-always there but with little effect.

[Guilded Lilly]

14. I'm still furious to my core about what happened...

So many quotes in there, I couldn't stop choosing them.
I am always a fraction of a second away from intense fury when I think about what was rightly stated in this piece.
I have to choose immediate, brooding, numbing silence because to explode would give me a heart attack.

"...and in ten years’ time the only thing anyone will remember about this election was that it took a village — with torches and pitchforks — to bring down Hillary Clinton, the first woman who should have been president."

Bastards. Full blown fucking bastards. All.

[LOL Lib]

18. I'm still furious too.

Anyone that chose an option other than HRC is simply ignorant. In one way or another they are ignorant. Ignorant of their faux superiority due to their dangling appendage, or simply ignorant regarding who was more qualified. Women who voted against HRC are no less ignorant than the cro-magnon era cave women who served as property to their cave man owners. Fuck every one of them.

[Guilded Lilly]

19. Yup. Yup. Yup.

[LoveMyCali]

68. And even worse

despite what we've seen from the orange menace they still defend their decision STILL claiming Hillary was the worse choice.

Add me to the furious column!

[Ligyron]

72. Problem is: more women voted against Hillary than for her.

Stockholm syndrome?

IDK, something like that ...

[LOL Lib]

78. I can't understand it. There is no redeeming quality in DUMP.

He is literally a sexual predator and yet some women are so battered they believe it's normal male behavior. I am angry but also very sad for these women. They are living with their eyes closed to reality. That's no way to live. I'm not even sure it is living.

[chwaliszewski]

96. I was wondering that as well.

I voted for Bernie in the primary and Hillary in the general. I may not agree with other people's reasoning, but I get it if someone doesn't like Hillary or Bernie or would never vote Democrat or even "I only vote Republican!". I get it, I really do. What I don't understand is how any voter could still be believing Dolt 45's non-stop projectile of lies and petulance. I honestly don't get it.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

42. Knowing that pukes behind media have been manufacturing lies about her

For 30 years, and those lies have seeped into the public consciousness and are now taken as facts...even women have absorbed the contamination....that also drives me into fury that I have to distract myself from. Or else I'll have a cardiac event too.

[LisaM]

55. Same here.

And we really got to see a show, didn’t we. Trump was the freak the media needed: half tycoon, half buffoon. Bernie was the scrappy cantankerous underdog, taking down the mighty Hillary. Oh, how the press and the public became invested in watching her fall. It got so bad that her supporters had to shrink away in secret Facebook groups, afraid to put bumper stickers on our cars or lawn signs in front of our homes — afraid for our reputations, afraid to be exiled from Coolsville, afraid because we were watching a real live witch hunt. Now we’re all tuning in to watch the embers burn. It smells rotten.

[certainot]

113. liberals/dems bear a lot of responsibility- for ignoring rw radio - and continue to

it continues to be the biggest mistake in political history. and i'll bet "shattered" doesn't even mention talk radio except in passing or as a part of rw media subservient to fox instead of its most important leading component.

all putin had to do is piggyback 25 years of dems allowing rw radio to take free potshots at their politicians without even noticing, much less complaining or protesting it.

ignoring it has been the only reaction outside of stoprush etc.

[NastyRiffraff]

15. That article is AMAZING

Every word speaks truth.

Despite the near impossibility of electing two Democratic presidents in succession when the previous one leaves office (last time it happened? 1856) it did look like possibly the first woman might get elected and boy did that simple fact upset people. We weren’t even allowed to be excited about it. Not even allowed to talk about it because it meant we were VOTING WITH OUR VAGINAS! How do you beat the first woman? Well you have to divide the women. And divide they did — on the right and the left.

I mourn for what we almost had, and lost. But we aren't going away. Ever.

[ProfessorPlum]

35. I was excited to vote for Clinton, and also excited to elect the first woman president

but I find this phrasing interesting:

"We weren’t even allowed to be excited about it. Not even allowed to talk about it "

who was doing the allowing in this case?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

59. The society at large?

I know I felt afraid of repercussions if I put up a Hillary bumper sticker. And on here, anti Hillary ppl are really loud. Well, ppl can get pretty out of bounds about a lot of things here, but, anyway...
I'd been contaminated by the years of anti Hillary lies, but not only that: the lack of credit ever given. I didn't know about her accomplishments until I supported her and googled around---after Bernie lost the primary.

Yes I was for Bernie first. His rebellion appealed to me.

[ProfessorPlum]

61. me too, I supported Sanders in the primary

but I thought Clinton was a really good candidate - exceptionally qualified for the job. Glad to vote for such a disciplined, experienced person.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

62. Yes, me too.

Makes me sad that I got conned by the repuke long term sabotage against her. Makes me even sadder that so many other people did too and didn't bother to check facts.

[lunamagica]

70. I was also afraid to put a HRC bumper sticker. An sadly, this was during te primaries

[NastyRiffraff]

63. You must not remember

that happening right here on DU. Maybe "allowed" is a little bit of an exaggeration, but not by much. Being accused of "voting with your vagina" was a "thing" that the kool kids just loved. Yes, they were "allowed" to say that with impunity.

[LisaM]

45. We weren't allowed to be excited about the opportunity back in 2008.

The gaslighting campaign has been very, very effective.

[iluvtennis]

16. Very good article...I needed a lift today. Thanks for posting nt

[calimary]

17. You'll get no argument OR anger from me!

I look forward to parroting back the "Oh, I WANT a woman president. Just not THAT woman" when the CONS try to push Nikki Haley or some such on us. They wouldn't be STOOOOOPID enough to try Sarah Palin, would they?

Hillary's the only woman I can see - from anywhere - who's qualified to be President. And WHEN it happens, I want that First Woman President to be a DEMOCRAT.

This Jonathan Allen dude who's co-author of "Shattered" - I've been wracking my brain about him. I googled him and can't find anything to confirm this impression I had. He's presented as a liberal or moderate. I remember him coming on some of the cable shows (MSNBC and CNN, too, I think) as a talking head - that he was a CON. Commentator-type guy, op/ed guy, that kind of thing. And it seems to me he was NOT espousing or defending either Democratic or liberal/progressive viewpoints. He's kinda hard to forget, at least visually, because he's physically heavier and a lot more bulky than most of the chattering class.

But I could be wrong...

[LisaM]

33. That makes my blood boil.

"I want a woman....."just not a woman with experience!

[Guilded Lilly]

20. K & R

[Gary 50]

24. Oh no, why should being told that I'm a male chauvanistic pig make me uncomfortable or angry.

This manchild voted for Hillary, reluctantly. I would love to see Elizabeth Warren as the next nominee but according to you, and you surely know my thoughts better than I do, I'm only saying this to fool you into thinking that I'm not a woman hating Neanderthal. Warren and Sanders represent my politics. Hillary does not. A quote from Hillary, "I've been accused of being a moderate, I plead guilty". Is a moderate a liberal or progressive? NO! I fully expect my response to be immediately taken down as any criticism of Hillary is regarded as treason to the Democratic party. I have voted Democratic every vote of my life (except one house of representatives vote) but I am sick to death of the trajectory of the party over the last few years. They say you can't argue with success but can I argue with abject failure? Apparently not.

[boston bean]

27. Did some one call you that? If so I would like to know what you wrote or what you said to get that

type of reply/reaponse.

[Gary 50]

48. No, I'm not literally saying it, she is. It's a friggin Quote. From Hillary. Hillary Clinton.

So you are another person who is going to tell me what I heard with my own ears and saw with my own eyes never happened. Good luck with that.

[bettyellen]

50. So you're saying you ignored her career and took that literally?

When you're looking for excuses to denigrate someone, removing all context and throwing history out the door usually helps. What other politician will you ignore thirty years of progressivism for with one stupid line from a stump speech. We could toss everyone out w the bath water using this vague standard. Seriously. Liberals actually ARE moderate in this country.

[bettyellen]

51. Playing? Well yeah it's a game for a lot of people, and that's the problem.

Good luck with that attitude. People who cannot collaborate and compromise with women and POC will have to hit the road.

[emulatorloo]

85. It isn't a game, Gary. And nobody here called you a chauvinist pig.

As others have pointed out, Sanders and HRC voted together 93% of the time. There is not much daylight between their positions.

Anyone who told you there was a huge difference between Bernie's and HRC's positions was a liar who most likely wanted Trump to win.

Have a great night!

[LisaM]

57. Hillary and Bernie Sanders voted together 93% of the time

and some of the differences were on gun control. Do you disagree with 93% of Bernie Sanders' politics?

And I don't know the quote that you're referencing (I've heard Hillary herself say that she considers herself a progressive, and I think in general that she is), but I would like a larger context for that.

Geeze, I heard Bernie Sanders say, in a debate, "I am not a pacifist!" (direct quote), but I obviously took it to refer to the exact scenario he was asked about.

[byronius]

21. I so agree with this. And I'm a dudebro. Sort of.

Clear as a bell to anyone who watched the million-dollar-a-day Hate Hillary industry poison the national dialogue.

The weakest, most pathetic face of the nation -- 'I saw it on the TV, so she must have done something wrong.'

It's everywhere, and it curses us daily. Reality culture lifted directly from the Primate.

[Aristus]

23. Thank you for this.

I have had to cut the tsk-tsk-ing, disapproving Hillary-hating fuckbrains out of my life as ruthlessly as I cut out the Stormtrumpers.

Both groups used graduate-level fecklessness to deny the country the most awe-inspiringly qualified candidate in US history the Presidency she earned by at least 3,000,000 votes.

I will now use 'voted for not-Hillary' as a guide to assess someone's value as a human being as devotedly as I use 'voted for Trump', and used to use 'voted for Bush'. It's a fail-safe guide to human character.

[boston bean]

25. I am with you!!

[Aristus]

29. :-)

[tammywammy]

86. Enjoy your stay.

[emulatorloo]

87. I think you may be projecting on the troll thing. N/T

[50 Shades Of Blue]

26. K & R

[Martin Eden]

28. The endless campaign waged against Hillary

The most appalling double standard in the history of American politics was at work in the recent presidential election. Decades of character assassination and Republican congressional witch hunts (spending millions of taxpayer dollars for a purely partisan agenda) created an egregiously unfair public perception about our candidate, whereas nothing Trump actually did or said had a similar effect on him.

Polls showing Hillary less trustworthy made me want to vomit. The rightwing dirty tricks worked, with complicity by the media and the director of the FBI.

No politician is without faults. Since October 2002 I have refused to support in a Dem primary any candidate who voted for the IWR that gave GW Bush authority to invade Iraq, but I did not hesitate to vote for Hillary in the general election. Unfortunately, the decades of attacks impacted voter turnout and 3rd party voting on the left, which tipped the Electoral College to the most vile and unfit POTUS imaginable.

[leftofcool]

30. Damn right!!!!!!!!!!

[Hekate]

31. KnR

[LisaM]

32. Thank you! This is a woman that got 3 million more votes than Trump, 4 million more than Bernie...

and even had more actual votes than Obama in the 2008 primary before she graciously withdrew (talk about rigged - the DNC wouldn't count Michigan and Florida that year because they both wanted earlier primaries.....)


AND WE STILL AREN'T DISCUSSING HER PRESIDENCY.

[still_one]

34. Thank you for this Star

[ismnotwasm]

36. Yup

It's a pitiful sight

[LisaM]

37. This excellent article, about one of the most committed DEMOCRATS I've ever seen....

should not make anyone on this site, DEMOCRATIC Underground, feel uncomfortable on a personal level.

[notdarkyet]

39. I felt the same way. Hillary broke a lot of barriers and took a lot of crap from, not just men but

Women too. I tried to tell people I knew about her, told them to read even Wikipedia on her. She was the first woman this and The first woman that. Her values and ethics are sterling. But the right has tried to destroy her for forty years, because they knew if a woman stood a chance to be prez it would be her. She has been subject to the meanest, nastiness attacks I've ever witnessed in our political history. So instead of having a great prez, we got trump, the most despicable, disgusting, amoral person we could have elected. Good luck everyone.

[Skidmore]

40. Love Sasha.

She was instrumental in recruiting me to be a precinct captain. Sweet young woman and a fearless fighter. Well said!

[DDySiegs]

41. Right On!!!

This 75 year old guy completely agrees with you and with the writer of the quoted piece. We missed out on having one of the best presidents in history. Instead we got the absolute WORST!!

[Gothmog]

43. Great article

[niyad]

44. k and r

[sharedvalues]

46. Another real reason is the media - who won't accept blame

Haberman, Lichtblau, NYT and Baquet should be getting some blame right now.

Not all of the blame, but the NYT helped in the HRC character assassination.

And then Baquet had the gumption to send subscribers an email in November saying "it's not out fault!!!"

Well, yes, Dean - you know it was your fault. That's why you sent that email.

[dlk]

47. Brilliant Post!

It's about time someone spoke the truth!

[William769]

53. when you do post, you knock it out of the ball park.

I don't care what anyone says but to me Hillary did shatter that glass ceiling by becoming our nominee and winning the popular vote. She not only knocked it out of the ball park, she shot to the moon!

I will be ever grateful to her.

Women coming of age could learn a lot from Hillary. For that matter, so could young men.

[sheshe2]

58. +1000!

Thanks William.

[Starry Messenger]

54. k&r

[LiberalLovinLug]

64. While I agree with most of this article, it is over-the-top in ways.

Yes, both Clintons have endured decades of systematic abuse from planted fake "scandal" and character assasination happily passed on by the MSM. Its frankly shocking how well it has worked. Her character was chipped away at until, even now in a latest poll, we see that 96% of Trump voters would vote for him again, and he'd also win the popular vote. That is how powerful that character assassination worked. That even though he gets a less than 50% approval rating from the same group, they'd pick him over "crooked" Hillary any day.

But please stop with blaming Bernie for once. Or equating him as some twin evil entity of Donald. He was running against her in the primary. He was an opponent. What does an opponent do? My gawd compared to the Republican primaries his criticism was mild at that. It seems more like a case of some kind of envy watching Sanders gain popularity while Hillary's went down. That if only that fake Democrat was not allowed to run, everything would have worked out peachy keen. I content she would have done worse without Sanders backing and what he did to re-energize the youth vote. If she would have won, I predict Sanders would have received grudging praise from many that demonize him today, for rallying back around her, and working along side her in crafting that policy paper.

Or that because Trump or his team were aware of Sander's criticisms from the left on Hillary, and decided to use the same talking points about being too friendly with Wall Street for instance, EVEN THOUGH HE DIDN'T MEAN A WORD OF IT, it was flipped around to it being Sanders repeating Trump's talking points.

It wasn't Sanders that owned a monopoly of RW talk radio stations. He didn't direct Russian trolls to make up shit and memes about Hillary and spread them on FB. He had nothing to do with her email mistake, and didn't even want to discuss it.

A lot of blame towards one gender in that article. Maybe Ms. Stone, should ask her own demographic, the white American female, why a majority of them voted for Mr. Trump as well? And I suppose they would again today if that poll is correct. Let me guess.....Bernie!

This kind of article will get the party nowhere. She is ostracizing a lot of people. She has gathered all her sisters on a small hill. A minority of white women, along with the bulk of minority race women, and no one else is allowed to be a part of her club because waaa waaa waaa everybody else is against us.

Meanwhile Democrats in Washington have moved past all that destructive bickering and I am stoked that the progressive voices and the established voices are finally coming together to listen to all Democratic voters, and accept criticism and rebuild a more popular party.

[emulatorloo]

88. Please point to the part of the OP that blames Bernie

I'm not seeing it in the OP. Thanks!

[LiberalLovinLug]

114. sure

So I’m here to tell you Bernie Sanders supporters and Trump supporters and anyone else out there trying to finish the job you started on Hillary that we’re not going away.

Equating Sanders supporters with Trump supporters, and insinuating that Sanders, who stood on the same stage with her and declared his support and encouraged his followers to vote for her, is trying to "finish the job" on her. A true Bernie Sanders supporter, is just that. They support that he backed Hillary in the general and is working with top Democrats now to rebuild the party.

Because she stood up to Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin and Bernie Sanders and the journalists and politicians who have been accusing her of all manner of corruption since the day she became Bill Clinton’s wife.

Again, equating Sanders, who ran against her as a challenger in the primaries, (so of course he will have criticisms of her, it was a part of the job),... to Trump and even Putin's level of baseless attacks on her. I cannot recall any actual accusations of "corruption" from Sanders. He went out of his way to avoid milking Republican fake news scandals about her. The closest thing that Putin, Trump, and Sanders have in common is a penis. That's it. Otherwise they couldn't be further apart in their politics, their decency, and their ethics. I was agreeing with this writer vehemently until about half ways down when she lost me when she veered into a sexist, and right/left false equivalency. Especially considering her own demographic, the white woman voter, went for the Orange Boor as well.

[emulatorloo]

115. Thanks!

I have to admit not reading the full article 😕, just the excerpt.

That does kind of apply to BoBs though and the trolls/dead-enders who were so enamored with false memes.

Happily there aren't any BoBs here.

I really wish the author had made the distinction between genuine Sanders supporters and the BoB's. That's a big mistake on her part IMHO

There aren't that many BoB's but they were very loud. They are not at all representative of Bernie's primary supporters. We did not do what the BoB's did.

Thanks again.

[LiberalLovinLug]

116. cheers

[emulatorloo]

89. That's a bunch of bullshit. There are no Hillary "cultists" on DU

Everyone here understands she's human and makes mistakes. No politician is perfect.

BTW, Regurgitating right wing memes isn't "constuctive criticism."

[JHan]

93. the fact that anyone could think Hillary Clinton was the problem is the problem.

This is not "blind devotion" this is an examination of double standards and general fuckery that existed last year.

[betsuni]

66. K&R (but she's wrong about Bill Maher -- he'd never believe fake news about Hillary)

[Tarheel_Dem]

67. K&R!

[lunamagica]

71. K&R!!! Thank you Little Star for bringing this over! This article reflects my feelings exactly

This last election has completely shattered me. I can't get over it. The pain, the anger, the disappointment in humanity. Seeing that hate trumps love...I'm so bitter, so bitter over this.

[JHan]

73. very cathartic read, thanks.

[Cha]

76. Mahalo for this, Little Star..

I'm going to read it when I get back!

Thank you for Shining the Light

[radical noodle]

79. K&R

[LenaBaby61]

80. Thank You Little Star!!

Excellent article, and I totally agree with it 100%.

[Egnever]

81. More nonsense

Hillary was a flawed candidate.

Had little or nothing to do with her being female. I could point out some of her many flaws but then my post will be hidden as it will likely be anyway.

[JHan]

94. who is not a flawed candidate?

where the fuck did this BS come from "Flawed candidate"?

We have had flawed men , now viewed as Great Men, do great things using the system. They were never referred to as "flawed" just Great Men.

"Flawed" was the tiniest figleaf used to camouflage sexism and to drag a hard-working public servant to the level of her opponent who was a charlatan. Give me a break.

[emulatorloo]

98. All humans are flawed.

Therefore all politicians are flawed. No human is infallible.

[betsuni]

100. That's a flawed opinion, not based on fact.

Most of the so-called flaws weren't/aren't even real. Doing a little research to find these things out is very easy in this modern world, what with the computer machines we can use.

[mopinko]

82. great read. thank you.

[athena]

84. The article I've been waiting for!

Men like these hate women like Hillary especially when those women attain positions of power. These men all say, “Oh, I’d vote for Elizabeth Warren or Kamala Harris.” Sure, pal. Sure you would. Let’s see what happens once they become actual threats. Right now you like them because you can frame them as plucky Frank Capra heroines but just wait until they actually start wielding real power and begin winning votes, or worse, “robbing” votes from your iconic male idols.

[Kaye_NY]

91. Thank you for posting Sasha's essay.

[Meowmee]

97. Thanks

For posting this. I also feel misogyny was another major factor in what happened. I still see hrc as having won and by a huge majority. It was a cheat. I believe the narrow electoral margin was fraud and hacking. In any other democracy she would be the leader now and if not she definitely would not be attacked but would be a respected major voice in the party. I was not embarrassed to support hrc- I still have stickers on my car- something I've never done before and they'll like stay there until 🍊💩 is gone along with all the lunacy. I hope to live to see that happen.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

99. This misogynistic thinking brings up stupid Henry VIII

How many times do we get the story about his six wives and two beheadings? All for want of a male heir. What the country wound up with was a monarch who surpassed him in every way - Elizabeth I. I find that to be extremely ironic, and only noted as subtext.

[lexington filly]

101. Agree with so much of what you wrote. Thanks!

[Kentonio]

102. Ah yes, the old 'if you don't love Hillary you're a stupid sexist monster who hates everything'.

Never gets old..

[Kaye_NY]

103. The sexism was rampant

It would be absurd to deny it.

[Kentonio]

104. Not many people here would deny it

But there's a big difference between 'there was rampant sexism during the election' and 'if you didn't think Hillary was great you must be a sexist'.

[Kaye_NY]

105. As a woman, I found the essay to be on point.

Between setting the bar extremely high, and the rampant sexism, smears and outright lies thrown at her, my respect for her has increased.

It seems you want to point out that you don't care for her. Noted. It doesn't change my opinion or the truth portrayed in the essay.

[Kentonio]

106. My opinion on her doesn't matter to anyone but myself

But it worries me that there has been this movement building that seems to aim to insulate her from any criticism and to try and paint anyone who isn't fully on board as bad. I actually have a lot of respect for her, I just think she was a bad candidate. That isn't gender related.

[Kaye_NY]

107. There is indeed a movement

Millions of women and allies are fed up with the bashing of Hillary Clinton, most of it based on sexism.

Bad candidate? I see you are one of the many who have set the bar ridiculous level. Hillary Clinton was one of the most experienced and most qualified candidate to ever run for President.

I hope you read the article.

[Kentonio]

112. There you go

You don't ask why, you just tell me I'm wrong. Incidentally although she's an extremely smart and capable woman, she's not even close to being the most experienced and qualified person ever to run for president. Her entire elected experience is 2 terms as a senator and unelected 1 term as Sec State. Thats a good CV, but there have been much stronger ones.

Personally I don't pick candidates based primarily on their CVs though, I pick them on values and on their strengths as a campaigner. Hillary shared some (but not all) of my values, and enough for me to support her in the same way I would numerous other Dems who I don't totally agree with. Being on the left I'm used to centrist Dem candidates, and used to supporting them despite their frequent disregard and sneering at our concerns.

In terms of her as a campaigner though, she was extremely weak in my opinion and that was one of my biggest objections to her candidacy. She's primarily a policy wonk, and struggles to connect with normal voters in the way you need to at that level. She can have a wonderful policy with great outcomes for everyone, but finds it very difficult to simplify that message without sounding like she's talking down to voters. She's not the first to have that problem and it doesn't have a damn thing to do with her gender, but it's a real issue. The stupid old 'who would you rather have a beer with' question is facile but it's referenced for a reason. That genuinely is the level a lot of people formulate their voting intentions on.

That's one of the things that bugged me about the 'most experienced and qualified' line I kept hearing. She only ran two successful campaigns ever, and both were in New York in a super safe Dem seat. We also had ample evidence of trustworthiness and favouribility polling problems dating over many years. Now I know (and very much sympathize) with people feeling furious about right wing smears tarnishing her reputation, but we have to face reality at that point. Our number one focus has to be winning, not on rehabilitating Hillary's reputation and trying to win. It means we started the race 2 laps behind. I know it's also tempting to point at Trump and say 'but he's horrific, how can people talk about a Hillary reputation issue?!' and again morally they are completely correct. Again though we have to face reality, Republican potential voters don't judge decency and behavior in the same way that our own potential voters do. We have much higher standards.

So apologies for the essay, but basically we need to start putting out candidates who can connect strongly with voters and who don't bring huge baggage, regardless of whether that baggage is largely unfair or not. We just saw what happens when we take things for granted. If we can lose to Trump despite having a policy heavyweight like Hillary, then we could lose again to another Republican even worse. We must learn from what just happened, and learn quickly.

Oh and if the game is rigged against us, then it's doubly important to improve our own game to compensate. Because we sure as hell don't have the representation right now in congress to unrig it.

[Kaye_NY]

117. It's interesting that in a discussion about the rampant sexism

thrown at Hillary Clinton, you wish to not only attempt to downplay it, but also found the need to express your views on Hillary Clinton, as if you feel the essay was directed at you. Sexism has played a very large role in perceptions of Hillary Clinton.

Why join a discussion on the rampant sexism if you are unwilling to discuss it?

[Kentonio]

118. It was an attempt to explain that there are other reasons for people not liking her candidacy

Rather than it simply being about sexism. If you want to focus on that though, fair enough I'll leave you to it.

[Orsino]

108. Hillary Clinton wasn't destroyed...

...but it looks as though They did successfully run out the clock on her, so there is a good point to the hyperbole.

Ironically, Trump is making her look that much better every day of his inept reign. If Clinton were still up for 2020, he is doing everything he can to toss the election our way.

[Orsino]

108. Hillary Clinton wasn't destroyed...

...but it looks as though They did successfully run out the clock on her, so there is a good point to the hyperbole.

Ironically, Trump is making her look that much better every day of his inept reign. If Clinton were still up for 2020, he is doing everything he can to toss the election our way.

[Nitram]

110. Yawn...

[cwydro]

111. K and r. nt