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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHave the Russian troll farms hit DU again?
I say "again" but I don't really know if they were responsible for shutting down DU on election night?
But, from the number of divisive threads, someone might think that?
It seems to me to be an inordinate amount of argumentative threads, which also lead to division in the ranks, in my opinion.
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." attributed to Thomas Jefferson
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)who has an agenda, what that agenda is and how it is directly affecting unity in the Democratic Party.
Then they win.
GitRDun
(1,846 posts)Water under the bridge.
Going forward we need everyone, economic populists, social progressives...anyone who has empathy for people they don't know.
It will take everyone to defeat these me first tools!
kentuck
(111,079 posts)This is a battle against a corporate fascist and we need all the people we can get under our tent, in my opinion.
Heartstrings
(7,349 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)The tent needs to get a lot bigger if we want to win in 2018 and 2020. Imo as long as our new recruits support the rights of women and minorities they're welcome to join us.
Vesper
(229 posts)tent, and abandoning the women and the non racists to invite the very people who voted for that corporate fascist who keeps attacking women and non-white people.
We would love it if the newcomers to the tent and the ones who wander in and out while the rest of us do the work, would join us.
That means not silencing us, or violating our basic human rights. This is our party and we don't need to sacrifice its core values to cater to people who aren't battling that corporate fascist.
get the red out
(13,461 posts)IMO, that's not informative, I try to keep up to date with NOW and the mess of this country Trump is making.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)H2O Man
(73,536 posts)a waste of their time. DU has long been a setting where stupid arguments break out. It has certainly gotten worse.
kentuck
(111,079 posts)We're not important...we're just stupid.
H2O Man
(73,536 posts)community member accused me of being a Russian plant. Gracious.
I believe that many people here are too caught up in emotion, rendering them incapable of meaningful conversations. There's too much anger and hostility towards people who think differently. This indeed leads to stupid arguments.
It's important to be able to recognize reality. For example, there are forum members who insist that Clinton won, because she had 3 million more votes. Now, she absolutely had way more votes than Trump. But presidential elections are currently the sum total of 50 individual state elections. Should that change? I think so. It seems time to make it a single national election. Yet, to accomplish this, it would require a substantial change -- starting at the grass roots.
If Trump's winning the presidency is not enough to convince people that we need to expand the party's base, I doubt anything could. And, yes, that's stupid, to think otherwise.
Leith
(7,809 posts)It's a combination of trolls and people getting overly emotional over what was said.
H2O Man
(73,536 posts)I appreciate that.
I'm sure there are "trolls" here from time to time. Most of the ones that I've seen removed over the years were not talented in the art of infiltrating. Generally, it's not good, in such a situation, to be quickly identified as a jerk. But they can't seem to help themselves.
I think the majority here are good and sincere people. Many may even have convinced themselves that they are right about everything. And they might be -- in the context of their abilities. But the time has come when people need to reach their greater potential, and that's not found in anger and hostility. And that's both an individual and group activity we can actually participate in here.
The threats posed by the Trump administration (and republicans in the House and Senate, plus state houses) is actually as bad as people say here.
Leith
(7,809 posts)We can't let ourselves be sidetracked when there are much worse things going on.
Star Trek had some good quotes and this one fits the situation very well:
Well, our national house is on fire and the roof is about to collapse. It would be so nice to stop the bickering amongst ourselves.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Thanks for being a voice of reason.
H2O Man
(73,536 posts)Oh, I've had plenty of times when I've been unreasonable, too.
I think that at the same time the congressional and FBI (currently coordinating with Treasury!) digs deeper, the faster this Trump administration will spin out of control. People should focus on that.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And I agree - it's time to shake off all that and focus on the real enemy.
Onward!
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)H2O Man
(73,536 posts)Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)Emotions are a bitch at times. Let us focus on 2018 and not make the same mistakes of 2016.
H2O Man
(73,536 posts)I'm currently working here on some local elections this year.
Luckily, with the two groups that are backing our party's candidates, there is zero animosity between those who voted differently in last year's primary. Everyone knows that there is far too much work to be done.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Emotions took over here years ago.
Sound reasoning is long gone.
I agree.
Chevy
(1,063 posts)troll by Putins own interdimensional time shifter unless of course you have done business in Russia recently then that accusation would have merit but then ahh never mind.....
I hope the Russian people give the boot to the jackals running their corrupt government. Putin and Trump are two peas in a pod, two turds to flush away from society. Both should be incarcerated.
But as I'm listening to Jimi Hendrix at the moment, I think I'll re-read your post. Well done. Thank you.
Chevy
(1,063 posts)PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)You've got over 56,000 posts. That just doesn't make sense to me at all.
I have, however, seen some divisive stuff from a few people with 1,000 posts or fewer.
Lots of threads trashing Bernie, which I don't much like. He's barnstorming in red states with Tom Perez, who I think is going to do great as the next chair of the DNC. My point is we have to focus on taking seats back at local, state and national levels.
When I look at these threads, it sometimes seems to me as if they are being manipulated, or shaped by trolls. I mean, if you're Putin, a divided Democratic party is great, particularly since they have their sock puppet in the White House as we speak.
And, heck, if you're the Mercers, or the Koch brothers, or Sheldon Adelson or any number of other freakish, 'on the crazy side' billionaires, a divided Democratic party is also great. Because these people are the ones picking our treasury clean like a bunch of crows.
All of our money, our precious tax money that we pay into our government is now being routed toward military contracts, and the infrastructure languishes, and programs that help us are being cut. Now, Trump wants to cut taxes even more for the rich, which is merely another way to rob the treasury.
Kinda depressing. But also kind of hopeful...because think about THIS: if the big money wants to troll this site, then at the very least, they are fearful of us. They attribute importance to us.
How about that!
H2O Man
(73,536 posts)If things are as bad as people say -- and I think the scientists march in DC/ around the globe are right -- and if the other threats posed by Trump et al are as serious as all rational people know they are, is it a good investment to remain bitter about last year's primary?
Learn from it, yes. Strengthen and enlarge the party, to win elections at all levels, too.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Where people are trying to survive and turn on each other. Having 45 as president has a lot of us walking around stressed and worried - to understate. I don't know that conspiracies about Russian trolls, loyalty oaths, and infighting are natural responses but it's not healthy or smart.
H2O Man
(73,536 posts)It's not healthy, not smart, and keeps people from focusing on the very real threats to our nation, the Trump administration.
VOX
(22,976 posts)Churning out that DIVISION crap. DUers are historically very intelligent, why do some keep biting on this troll-bait???
Vesper
(229 posts)attacks and the abuse. It's time to stand up to it, not doing so enough got us here, let's not make that same mistake again. We don't build this party or stage a successful resistance when we allow lame and silly attacks on it as a whole and its members.
VOX
(22,976 posts)This is a distance event, not a sprint. We're burning up so much valuable energy by battling one another and fomenting distrust.
Have to save it for the for the *real* fights ahead.
Vesper
(229 posts)These are grenades being lobbed here to foment diviseness and discord, and they're having their intended effect. Not only the repetitive threads here, the thin skinned overreactions, but the personal abuse that's running rampant. I've been so far accused of lying, and being responsible for Republicans winning, because somehow drawing attention to malignant words and deeds of a public official means that I'm personally responsible for the consequences of his actions. WTAF? On a freaking Democratic message board.
We should be able to criticize our leaders, be they Republican, Democratic or something neither fish nor fowl, as long as we do so like adults without the childish name calling and the right wing tactics, this should not be a problem here, but some people who are either here just to create chaos and keep us distracted somehow only find time to attack the Democrats, or fellow DUers, never ever the Republicans or Trump. They'll pay some vague lip service and turn their fire onto Democrats. It's insane, and it seems coordinated.
There are some who seem to be naively unaware and those who seem malignantly well aware of what they're doing. In the past weeks the concerted effort has been noticeable.
jehop61
(1,735 posts)is the Jury requests ramping up dramatically. Much like during the Bernie/Hillary discussions. Something's up!
Lint Head
(15,064 posts)Thanks to Shandris here are some of the techniques trolls and hackers use. 'Forum Sliding' seems to be the most obvious at times.
https://pastebin.com/irj4Fyd5
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)and frightening link
PoiBoy
(1,542 posts)...a very interesting and informative site...
rzemanfl
(29,556 posts)opting out of juries when they are the subject.
tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)actively engaging in this right now.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Everyone should read that information.
Caliman73
(11,730 posts)I think to myself, man I am vanilla. I typically use the same username or a tiny variation of it in most forums where I post. I try to argue and maybe educate, or listen and be educated. I know that these things exist, but did not put much stock into their being used to manipulate entire forums.
As H2Oman said up thread, when emotions are involved, then logic flies out the window and pandemonium ensues. My post count is not super high, but I have been here a little while. I remember the Bush years. I stopped posting for awhile, but since I have been back, things often seem to be in turmoil here.
We need to get it together, but we need to be able to disagree, debate intelligently, and remember that we are pretty much on the same side when it comes down to it.
Lint Head
(15,064 posts)mopinko
(70,081 posts)the thing is, some people get paid, but many do it for free.
scope some of the oppo sites and you will find people bragging and yucking it up about stirring the pot here.
one of them has bragged in the past that they had a mod here. i dont doubt that. there were always a few on the roster that never showed up for work.
there are a large number bounced here every day, many just automatically. and times like this make for busy time for mirt. i have no doubt we are a target site.
tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)there are some fucked up things going on today that have us long-termers scratching our heads and yelling obscenities.
Akamai
(1,779 posts)that cannot be granted, and so a clear promotion of division and a splitting of the ranks.
dividers are clearly not on our side, or on the side of the Democratic Party. Nor will they be at all effective in bringing about furthering women's rights.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)StarzGuy
(254 posts)No truer words have ever been spoken. Jefferson also owned a telescope so he too was an astronomer like me!
BigmanPigman
(51,584 posts)How can you tell if someone is a troll or not? What is the difference between a troll and a devil's advocate or a regular ignorant person? I can't tell and probably would buy a bridge for the right price.
0rganism
(23,944 posts)yep, pretty tough to give an answer rooted in observables
but then there is this:
manicraven
(901 posts)snort
(2,334 posts)Its easily the most vulnerable spot and that makes me even more suspicious. This shit is designed to divide.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)....some of the most divisive joined only in April and have 4 or 11 posts. Things like that.
Akamai
(1,779 posts)how really need of you to point that out!
zentrum
(9,865 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 26, 2017, 12:44 AM - Edit history (1)
....was the screen name of one of them. It was the same as the name of a SUPERPAC that in the past attacked Jane Meyer, the great New Yorker journalist who has exposed dark money and lately the Mercers, the billionaires behind BreitBart and Bannon and Gorsuch. This PAC also has done hit pieces on Hillary.
Probably no connection---but sure gave me pause. And was amusing.
underpants
(182,772 posts)Hopefully there won't be any acceptance
Demit
(11,238 posts)and that's a gross mischaracterization.
Brogrizzly
(145 posts)I have no clue what you are talking about.
manicraven
(901 posts)It's time to face down the real enemy and quit splitting hairs. Besides, why is this divisiveness peaking lately? Who is driving it? I'm suspicious that we've got active trolls hanging about, and I'm not interested. I won't be diverted or distracted! I want to know about tRump's ties to Russia and to know what progress is being made in getting to the bottom of the Russian interference and tRump's collusion and criminal dealings. I want the shoe to drop.
blueseas
(11,575 posts)Akamai
(1,779 posts)absolutely, you are correct!
But you are exposing them to all of us and helping us not be divided by this nonsense.
GoCubsGo
(32,079 posts)And, have been for at least the past week.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)The answer is not complicated. The answer is also not "Sanders" or "Clinton."
The losers are easily identifiable: average Americans from all political parties. The 99%.
(I personally suspect paid alt right trolls or useful idiots more than any foreign agents)
elmac
(4,642 posts)I would simply reply that I tracked their IP to Moscow and they shut right up.
musette_sf
(10,200 posts)about Sen Sanders' selective support for a DINO who has actively legislated against us, to "Russian troll farms"...
kentuck
(111,079 posts)???
musette_sf
(10,200 posts)But "some say" here, of late, that Democratic women speaking their minds about having the defense and protection of OUR rights minimized (not for the first time, either) by Sen Sanders, is engendering "divisiveness". Other OPs have characterized our outrage as, ahem, "The Russians", as well.
So again, if I misunderstood your OP, my apologies.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)"without choice, there can be no revolution."
Sam
musette_sf
(10,200 posts)its source could be easily found. But it just isn't there.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)and it was captured as a result of a comment from someone asking him his position. I do not believe every word uttered finds its way to the Internet, but his long history of supporting choice expands over decades.
Sam
PS and then there is this from his website:
Despite major advances in civil and political rights, our country still has a long way to go in addressing the issue of gender inequality. Many of the achievements that have been made for womens rights in the 20th century have been under attack by the Republican party denying women control over their own bodies, preventing access to vital medical and social services, and blocking equal pay for equal work.
When it comes to the rights of women, we cannot go backwards. We have got to go forward.
We are not going back to the days when women had to risk their lives to end an unwanted pregnancy. The decision about abortion must remain a decision for the woman and her doctor to make, not the government.
We are not going to allow the extreme right-wing to defund Planned Parenthood, we are going to expand it. Planned Parenthood provides vital healthcare services for millions of women, who rely on its clinics every year for affordable, quality health care services including cancer prevention, STI and HIV testing and general primary health care services. The current attempt to malign Planned Parenthood is part of a long-term smear campaign by people who want to deny women in this country the right to control their own bodies.
We are not going back to the days when women did not have full access to birth control. Incredibly, almost all of the Republicans in the Senate are in favor of giving any employer who provides health insurance, or any insurance company, the ability to deny coverage for contraception or any other kind of procedure if the employer had a moral objection to it. That is unacceptable.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/fighting-for-womens-rights/
musette_sf
(10,200 posts)but it was never ever published anywhere so it could be found in an internet search....
As for the statement, "Many of the achievements that have been made for womens rights in the 20th century have been under attack by the Republican party denying women control over their own bodies" - so to Sen Sanders, it's okay for DEMOCRATS to deny women control over their own bodies... just not Republicans?
Samantha
(9,314 posts)See the above post.
Sam
musette_sf
(10,200 posts)(Incidentally, the quote you cited in your OP isn't there, or anywhere else on the internet, for that matter. Pretty sure Sen Sanders never said that.)
Let me set you straight here:
I was a supporter and admirer of Sen Sanders for many years.
I was at first thrilled when he entered the Democratic primary for this past electoral cycle.
It is my observation that he was used by the Operation Chaos 2016 cabal, who I characterize as the BernieBros who were never progressives or actual supporters of Sen Sanders.
And it is also my observation that he let his ego win over his principles, and refused to eschew the BernieBro "disruptors who disrupted poorly" (to use an old DU meme).
He's actively trying to get SOME Democrats (as in: NOT Jon Ossoff) into office.
And furthermore, this is not Sen Sanders' first public display of callousness towards women's rights and causes. Frankly, at this point he's beginning to remind me of the dudes from my 60s activist days, who were cool with chicks in the movement, so long as they ran the mimeograph machines, prepared the meals, and put out with the Free Love.
When the primaries started in the 2016 electoral cycle, I initially planned to cast my vote for Sen Sanders. I did not support Sec'y Clinton in the 2008 cycle, and at first I held the same opinion in the 2016 cycle - that if she won the nomination, I would hold my nose and vote for her in the general. But as their respective campaigns evolved (for better or worse) in the 2016 cycle, by the time the Cali primary came around, I proudly and passionately cast my vote for Sec'y Clinton.
If Sen Sanders is so damned dead set to remain an independent, then he never should have run in the Democratic primary and should have run an independent Presidential campaign.
betsuni
(25,472 posts)Accusing us of being Russian trolls is the new David Brock.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)He's only spent the last 50 odd years defending and fighting for them after all.
musette_sf
(10,200 posts)Yeah, well, so have I.
And unlike Sen Sanders, I've never, in those 50+ years, clearly and unambiguously stated that the sacred civil, human and Constitutional rights of innocent female US citizens are, and I quote, "just one issue". As a person and citizen directly impacted by those sacred rights, I am well aware that those rights are the essential foundation of the very humanity of HALF THE COUNTRY.
I've also never cavalierly suggested that women should take one for the team, and cozy up to gestational slavery advocates because "we just can't exclude them".
betsuni
(25,472 posts)applegrove
(118,622 posts)two ways: 1) hurts Bernie who is polling the highest for any politician in the country and the GOP are terrified of that 2) foments anger between Liberals depending from which part of the big tent they are from.
musette_sf
(10,200 posts)ginning up anger and distrust.
And I say this as a lifelong Dem, who was a supporter and admirer of Sen Sanders for many years.
I was at first thrilled when he entered the Democratic primary for this past electoral cycle.
It is my observation that he was used by the Operation Chaos 2016 cabal, who I characterize as the BernieBros who were never progressives or actual supporters of Sen Sanders.
And it is also my observation that he let his ego win over his principles, and refused to eschew the BernieBro "disruptors who disrupted poorly" (to use an old DU meme).
When the primaries started in the 2016 electoral cycle, I initially planned to cast my vote for Sen Sanders. I did not support Sec'y Clinton in the 2008 cycle, and at first I held the same opinion in the 2016 cycle - that if she won the nomination, I would hold my nose and vote for her in the general. But as their respective campaigns evolved (for better or worse) in the 2016 cycle, by the time the Cali primary came around, I proudly and passionately cast my vote for Sec'y Clinton.
Many of us speaking out on Sen Sanders' cavalier disenfranchisement of women's rights, as a core value of the Democratic Party, are also former supporters who have been disillusioned by the events of his 2016 Presidential campaign.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... and their efforts would be better spent elsewhere, like Facebook or MySpace. Why would they bother here?
bucolic_frolic
(43,128 posts)The country is infiltrated with Russian immigrants over the last 20 years,
since the fall of the Soviet government.
Donald Trump is worried about Moozlims and Mexicans and the Great Wall of Trump
This is the Great Deflection, a finger pointer "Lookee over there!!!!" while the bacon
is stolen under our very noses by cohorts and concubines
Russians have hacked our elections most likely
Does Donald have a plan, or does he even mention, Russian assets in this country
tilting our political process?
Gee, I wonder why he doesn't do that??
MaeScott
(878 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"Have the Russian troll farms hit DU again?"
Would that be referring to the incredulous demographic who alleges a topic not receiving unanimity as "divisive and unhelpful" for example?
ExciteBike66
(2,337 posts)kentuck
(111,079 posts)ExciteBike66
(2,337 posts)I was just making a funny!