General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMatt Taibbi: Why is Nobody Freaking Out About the LIBOR Banking Scandal?
from Rolling Stone:
The LIBOR manipulation story has exploded into a major scandal overseas. The CEO of Barclays, Bob Diamond, has resigned in disgrace; his was the first of what will undoubtedly be many major banks to walk the regulatory plank for fixing the interbank exchange rate. The Labor party is demanding a sweeping criminal investigation. Mervyn King, Governor of the Bank of England, responded the way a real public official should (i.e. not like Ben Bernanke), blasting the banks:
The furor is over revelations that Barclays, the Royal Bank of Scotland, and other banks were monkeying with at least $10 trillion in loans (The Wall Street Journal is calculating that that LIBOR affects $800 trillion worth of contracts).
The banks gamed LIBOR for two semi-overlapping reasons. As noted here last week, there were instances of Barclays traders badgering the LIBOR submitters to "push down" rates in order to fatten their immediate bottom lines, depending on what they were trading or holding that day. They also apparently rigged LIBOR downward in order to produce a general appearance of better health, essentially tweaking their credit scores a few ticks upward.
Most intriguingly, or perhaps disturbingly, there were revelations last week that Bank of England deputy Governor Paul Tucker had a conversation with Diamond at the peak of the crisis in 2008. The conversation reportedly left Diamond, and subsequently his traders, with the impression that the bank had carte blanche to rig LIBOR downward in order to help allay spiraling public fears about the banks poor financial health. .................(more)
The complete piece is at: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/why-is-nobody-freaking-out-about-the-libor-banking-scandal-20120703#ixzz1zc02zkrX
malaise
(268,949 posts)Bigmack
(8,020 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)I wonder how they fit in this scandal. Probably through Carlyle Group.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)The research I have on this is buried somewhere on an old hard drive.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)George W. spent some of his boyhood summers tending sheep in Scotland.
The sheep farm in Perthshire, Scotland, belonged to a James Gammell. "Jimmy" was Scotland's most connected elitist financier, and an early partner in Zapata Oil. Zapata Oil is the early aggressive venture of George Herbert Walker Bush and his cronies, and reported to have had CIA involvement. "Operation Zapata" was also the CIA's code name for intelligence operations against Cuba.
Little George's first visit to Perthshire occurred in the same year that Fidel Castro seized power -- 1959. George was 13, and he delighted in the acceptance the Gammell family gave him, and told a London Times reporter about being mistaken by Texas tourists for a local lad:
"I was assigned to take a sheep from one pasture to
another and this tour bus stops and they all get out
and this woman says: 'Oh, look at the little
Scottish boy,' in this Texas accent," Mr Bush said
with a broad grin. Of course, I kept my mouth shut
and gave them a little Scottish boy wave."
snip
(Incidentally, the son of the Gammell family, Bill, turns out to have gone to school in Edinburgh with Tony Blair...)
To understand why omitting this episode is important for Bush, it's instructive to take a quick look at the crowd his family travels with. Here are just two paragraphs from a long and detailed review:
The Bush family ties to the Lairds and Lords of
Scotland and England
Lazard Brothers was controlled by officials in the
British government. It was always the investment
bank of David Rockefeller. And, besides Meyer and
Walker, George Bush's other large investor in Bush-
Overbey was British Assets Trust, Ltd., an
investment company whose directors interlocked with
the management of companies associated with Lord
Kindersley, such as Hudson's Bay Company. The
chairman of British Assets Trust in 1956 was J.G.S.
Gammell in Edinburgh, Scotland, and in 1985 by
J.C.R. Inglis, a partner in Shepherd & Wedderburn,
WS, an Edinburgh law firm. Inglis was also a
director of The Royal Bank of Scotland Group,
Scottish Provident Institution for Mutual Life
Assurance, Edinburgh American Assets Trust and
Atlantic Assets Trust, as well as chairman of
European Assets, N.V., Gammell also had served as
director of The Royal Bank of Scotland Group, as
did such other notables as The Right Hon. Lord
Balfour of Burleigh, The Right Hon. Lord Clydesmuir
and The Right Hon. Lord Polwarth. Polwarth,
incidentally, began serving as a director of the
Halliburton Company, parent of Brown & Root, in 1974.
The Bush family continued to amass its fortune and
power from the British and Scottish sources named
above, as these sources introduced their financial
tentacles into Texas, and as George H.W. Bush and
Barbara drove that old red Studebaker into Houston.
The blocked info was taken from David Ickes' web site which is now defunct.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)these back stories never see the light of day
bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)an expert on this issue, and asked this person why the two top figures at Barclay's were shown the door so quickly. He responded by saying that in the U.K., politicians TAKE THIS SHIT SERIOUSLY!
malaise
(268,949 posts)he may be next
MightyMopar
(735 posts)That was so on target. When Jamie Dimond has been in front of the Senate they most of the Senators acted like were doing a job interview.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)That plus Bob Diamond is an American, and that he had the temerity to make a note containing the contents of a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" conversation with the Bank of England.
They are going to be seriously pissed that the dirty laundry of fiancial services in London is coming out.
I think that it is the US CFTC and the Canadian regulatory body that have kept the investigation going since it started in 2010 and that haven't allowed the British Finacial Services Authority, the Bank of England, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer to sweep the whole thing under the rug.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)xchrom
(108,903 posts)russspeakeasy
(6,539 posts)They weren't as well written as this one, but Barclays has been in the news. The e mails have been out for a couple of weeks.
But there has been zero "real news" coverage until today..
The post I did on Barclays, a couple of days ago, got zero responses.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)That's part of the problem.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)They use it to set the rates for some variable rate mortgages.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Simple explanation, interest rates between banks, you know what it is, but one reason people are not in full scale panic, we all should, is that most people have no clue what it is, more saad dressing.
Word salad, whatever.
Taibi covered it well, and you know when that socialist rag called the Financial Times is sounding like The Nation, it's bad.
snot
(10,520 posts)exactly what was being done, why, how it affected everyone else, and what kind of restitution would be appropriate.
I mean, I understand they artificially pushed it lower and that this supposedly helped their bottom line and made their bank look healthier; but exactly why, how did it have that effect? Because their bank was borrowing at LIBOR-based rates?
If LIBOR was being kept lower than it should have been, then banks or other institutions, which might include bad banks but might also include pensions, that were lending at LIBOR-based rates got lower interest than they should have. Do they now have claims against Barclays for the lost interest? What about a right to collect the difference from the borrowers who should have been paying higher rates? Apart from the fact that it might be hard to collect.
Off-hand, while Tucker's head shd certainly be had if indeed he gave Diamond the impression that this would be ok and I can see why he might have done that I don't think that shd exonerate Barclays, who had to know that their actions were illegal and would be cheating many.
I've gotten no clarity from the media re- these issues and probably have it all wrong; just trying to walk through some possibilities.
banned from Kos
(4,017 posts)But there is something to this or the CEO would not have resigned.
I agree with you - need more info.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...first of all, "bank griefers"??? Jayzus, does anyone who doesn't share your exact slant on things have to get a stupid, derisive label? Second, "to sell RS". Well, golly, imagine that, a reporter whose articles help to sell his publication, what evil scheme will he think of next? Finally, and hilariously: "But there is something to this or the CEO would not have resigned". Gee, ya think?
banned from Kos
(4,017 posts)Jon Corzine (among others) and both have proven innocent of his false claims.
Taibbi has no credibility left.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)You know, don't you, that Matt Taibbi is hardly the only person out there calling for sanctions on bankers like Lloyd Blankfein and Jon Corzine? These high-level financiers and politicians routinely get away with stuff that would have us little people jailed for life.
There was testimony that Corzine personally ordered the use of client funds to cover a margin call. That may not rise to the level of proving his guilt -- but neither does it support your contention that he has been "proven innocent". I'd like to know why he was not investigated further. I'd like to know why the bankers involved in the near-takedown of the world economy, not only are not charged, but are raking in bigger and bigger piles of money.
It just goes to show the utter and complete corruption of our current system of government and finance. Where the little people must obey the law, however punitive; while the rich and the powerful can plunder and steal with impunity.
Historically, such situations are fraught with danger, for the little people and the rich and the powerful alike.
But go ahead and continue with your little DU campaign against Matt Taibbi, one of the few reporters out there who is taking this story on. We're just a little corner of the Internet, with little influence on how these things play out. In the long run, we'll all know who was on the right side of these issues.
banned from Kos
(4,017 posts)There is no such testimony.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...stating the transfer was done "per JC's direct instructions". And the author of that email took the Fifth in her testimony before Congress. Imagine that.
On the other hand, your contention that Jon Corzine was PROVEN INNOCENT is simply not true. Even if he had been tried and acquitted, he would not have been PROVEN INNOCENT. In this case, though, he was never brought to trial -- like so many other criminal financiers have never been brought to account. I guess you're okay with that, and you're okay with client funds being used in a desperate attempt to stay afloat, even though they are supposed to be strictly segregated.
It's one set of laws for us Little People, and another set of laws entirely for the Very Important People.
Also amazing, isn't it: those top officers just didn't know where those funds ended up? These guys are the Smartest Guys In The Room, until they get caught doing something sleazy like this, then all of a sudden they're incompetent fools who can't keep track of $1.6B. It's a trifle, m'dear, a mere bagatelle...
Pffft.
Oh, BTW: here are a few links verifying the existence of the email; also some verification that this was a shocking breach of fiduciary duty as stated by the bankruptcy trustee:
http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-03-23/economy/31228704_1_jon-corzine-transfer-specific-funds
In a memo from a House Financial Services subcommittee, the probe says it found that Corzine authorized the transfer of customer funds, citing an email from Edith OBrien, the assistant treasurer.
On Friday Oct. 28, 2011, MF Global transferred $200 million from a segregated customer account at J.P. Morgan Chase (US:JPM) in London, the committee said. OBrien wrote in an email the transfer was per JCs direct instructions. OBrien is due to testify on Wednesday before the subcommittee, and The Wall Street Journal reported she will invoke her constitutional rights against self-incrimination.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mf-globals-obrien-takes-fifth-at-hearing-2012-03-28
Edith OBrien, the assistant treasurer, twice took the Fifth Amendment rights, and when asked by Rep. Randy Neugebauer, said she would take the Fifth to every question. Read the blow-by-blow account of the hearing
Neugebauer then dismissed the key witness, who according to a memo from the committee said in an email that former CEO Jon Corzine may have authorized a transaction that involved the transfer of $200 million worth of client funds from a J.P. Morgan JPM -4.18% account.
Per JCs direct instructions, the committee said her email message contained.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/mf-global-jon-corzine-knew-client-money-transferred/story?id=15136945#.T_YqYPUnf_c
...
Duffy said he learned on Saturday from lawyers of CME Group, the world's largest derivatives exchange, that Corzine was aware of a $175 million loan transfer to one of MF Global's European affiliates that may have involved client money.
"Somebody went and violated rules of CME and the government and transferred out customer money into a broker dealer account," Duffy told Congress. He said he informed the authorities, including the Securities and Exchange Commission, though he did not know the full details to describe how Corzine knew of the transfer.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mf-global-corzine-may-get-away-with-it-2012-06-04
Sorry, but this threat of a civil lawsuit, more than eight months after MF Global broke into customer funds to pay off mounting claims against it in the days before it went bankrupt, comes just a little too late.
As refreshing and honest as Giddenss claims are, the threat of a lawsuit wont assuage investors burned by what seems to have been clear wrongdoing at the firm. It also wont be any reassurance in a market that perceives former Goldman Sachs Group Inc. GS -2.72% bankers such as Corzine as crony capitalists who view regulations and other rules as optional.
And why shouldnt they? MF Global lost or misused $1.6 billion in customer money, and not a single top executive has been held accountable. Edith OBrien, the firms former treasurer, declined to answer questions at a congressional hearing.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/46838268/MF_Global_s_Corzine_Ordered_Transfer_of_Client_Funds_Memo
The $200 million transfer in customer funds from a JPMorgan account was made to cover a $175 million overdraft in one of MF Global's accounts in London, the memo said.
In an October 2011 email, just days before the firm's collapse, former MF Global assistant treasurer Edith O'Brien said the transfer was being made "Per JC's (Jon Corzine's) direct instructions," according to the memo.
"Recognizing the liquidity stress that MF Global was operating under, JPMorgan Chase sought to validate the appropriateness of the transfer," the memo says. "JPMC Chief Risk officer Barry Zubrow called Mr. Corzine directly to seek assurances that the funds transferred to cover the overdraft funds that belonged to MF Global and not customer funds."
banned from Kos
(4,017 posts)Comingling is a relative wrist-slap - a fine and securities ban. So there won't be a trial.
Taibbi called for the imprisonment of Corzine and Blankfein. He really is oafish and a rank amateur on legal issues like this.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)some of us might be enlightened by your inside knowledge.
Are we being lied to?
Is secrecy and misdirection a necessary component to the "free markets"?
Is there such a thing as "free markets"?
At what level does the charge of FRAUD disappear for the betterment of mankind?
Are there ANY moral actors on Wall Street, and could you please name a few.
Thank you in advance.
And I have more...
smokey nj
(43,853 posts)NEW YORKSeeking to mollify critics over its role in the global financial crisis, Goldman Sachs announced Friday the hiring of junior analyst Greg Kohler, who executives said is the investment bank's first and only employee to possess a clear set of morals or a basic understanding of right and wrong.
Officials confirmed the upstanding Kohler, 24, will be based out of the company's Lower Manhattan headquarters, working from within a small cubicle strategically located in a remote corner of the building where he is unlikely to have contact with his morally bankrupt coworkers.
"We are very pleased to welcome Mr. Kohler, who will be adhering to the letter of the law in a workspace physically detached from the rest of our firm's operations," public relations chief Richard Siewert said during a press conference. "He'll be joining a select group of 33,000 talented individuals at Goldman Sachs as our sole employee not motivated purely by the pursuit of obscene wealth at the expense of society."
"While Mr. Kohler won't be attending a single meeting or influencing any of our business decisions, we're confident his acute sense of professional integrity will prove a valuable asset," Siewert continued. "He will technically be on our staff, collecting a paycheck, and that's really all that counts."
http://www.theonion.com/articles/goldman-sachs-hires-single-morally-decent-human-be,28460/
WillyT!
That was great !!!
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,500 posts)INVESTS FOR YOU BASTARDS!!!!''
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...but I'll tell you what he has that you don't: a nose for rank dealings.
I note you are dismissing what the bankruptcy trustee said. I also note you haven't addressed your claim that Corzine was PROVEN INNOCENT. I also note you have not said anything about how these Really, Really Smart Guys can misplace $1.6B.
Furthermore: judging from the reactions around the world to this debacle, it doesn't sound to me at all like commingling of client funds is a small thing. In fact, people were saying it's never done; they were saying that it will mean people just won't put their money in this type of fund anymore, since they can't trust that it won't be used for other purposes.
You claim the money was found. Some of it was found at JP Morgan. In other words, it was used to pay off a margin call. But for you, that's merely a wrist-slapping offense. So just days before his firm goes bankrupt, Corzine or his officers transfer client funds to JP Morgan to pay off a debt, in a move that is roundly denounced around the world -- and your claim is, hey, what's the big deal? Those funds were found!
By the way: Has Corzine ever claimed he knew where those funds went? Because I don't remember hearing that. All I remember hearing from him is "Shrug, I don't know where the money went. Beats me." (yes I know, it's not a direct quote: it's a rhetorical device, just for the record). Nor do I remember hearing other commentators recant their outrage at client funds being commingled in this way, nor do I remember hearing that the funds were "found". I'm sure the people whose funds were commingled, were sure like to know where they were found, so they could have a shot at getting them back?
Finally: link please.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)banned from Kos
(4,017 posts)Corzine is innocent because the funds were found. PERIOD.
You and Taibbi keep yanking this chain. I don't care but you are wasting your time. At least he is selling copy to bank griefers.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...and you gave me one: for a different company, different guy, different case altogether. Good work.
In the meantime, you have provided no link specifying where those funds were found. You have provided no support for your statement that Corzine was FOUND INNOCENT.
Instead you expect me and others to simply accept that you're a Real Expert on these matters, and we shouldn't worry our l'il heads about it all. Nor should we dare to notice the rank odor that is emanating from the financial industry these days. After all, if we do that, then someone might start calling us "bank griefers" or something.
Oh the horror.
snot
(10,520 posts)Taibbi has as far as I'm aware been in many instances the only journalist investigating and reporting on financial crimes, and has often done a terrific job. But in this case, he was too cryptic for me.
marmar
(77,077 posts)banned from Kos
(4,017 posts)Nothing he claims is true.
Andrew Sorkin of the NYT took him down by calling out Taibbi lies.
Sorry - Taibbi is a liar.
trumad
(41,692 posts)with your boatload of horseshit.
You poor little internet anonymous couch potato.
Myrina
(12,296 posts)N/t
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)AIG's Financial Products business unit was there.
Lehman was hiding debt at each quarters end there.
JPM's Whale was there.
This is just the latest, and it goes to the top of the UK government.
Read up on how LIBOR is set. A group of banks each submit numbers to the Britsh Banking Association, which is run by the banks. It is not based on any actual transactions between any banks and customers. It's a phony number.
http://www.bbalibor.com/bbalibor-explained/the-basics
At what rate could you borrow funds, were you to do so by asking for and then accepting inter-bank offers in a reasonable market size just prior to 11 am?
Therefore, submissions are based upon the lowest perceived rate at which a bank could go into the London interbank money market and obtain funding in reasonable market size, for a given maturity and currency.
bbalibor is not necessarily based on actual transactions, as not all banks will require funds in marketable size each day in each of the currencies/ maturities they quote and so it would not be feasible to create a suite of LIBOR rates if this was a requirement. However, a bank will know what its credit and liquidity risk profile is from rates at which it has dealt and can construct a curve to predict accurately the correct rate for currencies or maturities in which it has not been active.
The BBA throws out a number of the highest and lowest submissions and averages the rest from the middle.
http://www.bbalibor.com/panels/usd
Please find a complete list below for all the 18 banks that currently contribute to the fixing of US Dollar bbalibor. This panel was last reviewed in May 2012.
Bank of America
Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd
Barclays Bank plc
BNP Paribas
Citibank NA
Credit Agricole CIB
Credit Suisse
Deutsche Bank AG
HSBC
JP Morgan Chase
Lloyds Banking Group
Rabobank
Royal Bank of Canada
Société Générale
Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation
The Norinchukin Bank
The Royal Bank of Scotland Group
UBS AG
Moral Compass
(1,517 posts)This whole issue is a bit of an inside joke. Only the financially versed understand what LIBOR is and how important it is.
I don't get newspapers any longer, but is this getting buried in section I page 34 next to the add for Depends? That's the usual approach in our country.
Overseas this is big stuff and is being splashed in huge bold type on the front pages of major newspapers and is being covered by the BBC and others.
Here? Well, as usual, crickets... Chirrup, chirrup, chirrup.
Matt must be pulling his hair out right now. Manipulating this rate means nothing can be trusted in the financial markets. But, oh well, what the hell...
malaise
(268,949 posts)uas the host for Willard Rmoney's fundraising bash later this month (Until yesterday).
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)This is a HUGE story. I bet US media is burying this because there are similar shenanigans going on in the US and they know it. The whole financial system is built on a house of cards.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Many US debt instruments are tied to LIBOR. There's little doubt that multiple US multinationals were knee-deep in this as well.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)Katie Holmes divorce? they're on it
A famous person dies, they'll spend 3 hours on it
something important?,,no thanks
sad sally
(2,627 posts)As a retired homebody, I spend the 8-9 a.m. hour with Link TV. Democracy Now has indepth discussions about current news - no commercials - no cutaways just when the guests start getting to the meat of their topic.
A couple of Sundays back decided to watch Howard Kurtz's Reliable Sources; was the day after Rodney King died. While his (King's) story was/is important, Kurtz chopped off his 1-minute interview with Michael Ware on PTSD because of this "breaking news" story (King). Michael ended by saying, "yeah, whatever;" once again CNN gave him the short straw.
nanabugg
(2,198 posts)LeftishBrit
(41,205 posts)The government is of course first and foremost trying to claim that it's all the fault of the previous Labour government; nonetheless, everyone seems pretty worked up about the whole thing.
maxrandb
(15,322 posts)Why...Yes, YES! It is!
I'm sure the "liberal media" will soon be all over this.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,500 posts)malthaussen
(17,187 posts)It's a constant barrage, with mind-numbing figures and technical details that make the uninitiated head spin. No doubt that was the plan to begin with. But at some point, the outrage plateaus. We all know we need to throw the bums out. We don't need further confirmation of this.
-- Mal
Control-Z
(15,682 posts)or Finance Committee hearing a few weeks ago about the Barclay Bank fiasco? The republicans sang Diamond's praises, iirc. Then all of a sudden it disappeared just like they'd hoped it would. Will this stir it up again?
I thought Diamond stepping down would get a lot of coverage. Wrong again.
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,500 posts)Control-Z
(15,682 posts)and I've had the TV on as background to work, so you are probably, absolutely right. Thanks for setting me straight.
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,500 posts)to mention the similarities in the last name.