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Sun Apr 30, 2017, 01:09 PM

Biggest Gaslighting Campaign Ever: Democrats Are Out of Touch

Yesterday's Atlantic article discussing the WaPo poll from the previous week and all of its nuances.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/04/democratic-party-out-of-touch-obama-wall-street-speech/524784/

This is the section I'm most interested in:

There is nuance to the results of the survey. A closer look at the numbers shows that while a majority of Americans believe the Democratic Party is out of touch, most Democrats do not, though that’s only by a slim majority. Democratic voters do, however, seem to have less confidence in their party—at least at the moment—than Republicans do in theirs. A higher percentage of Republican voters, at 60 percent, said that the GOP is in touch with the concerns of most people, compared with just 52 percent of Democrats who said the same of their party.

Why do we think our party is "out of touch"? At this point in the game, you would think the majority would realize we are the party most down to earth. But it is not a comparison between Democrat and republican. Instead, it is simply our party, taken on its own, fairing against our own standards.

My personal opinion is that the low numbers do not indicate we have super high (impossible) standards of our own accord. Rather, we are and have been gaslighted into believing that our party is "out of touch" by years of republican rhetoric. We hold our party to such high standards because republican rhetoric demands that we scrutinize each toothpick thin plank in our party's platform.

Meanwhile, republicans stick their fingers in their ears when we tell them they do not represent 99.9% of America.

So I beg you to stop scrutinizing your party looking for flaws and then amplifying them when you find them. There will always be flaws of some kind, but we can correct them. The important thing to remember is that we are the party of sanity. We care.

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Arrow 36 replies Author Time Post
Reply Biggest Gaslighting Campaign Ever: Democrats Are Out of Touch (Original post)
ProudLib72 Apr 2017 OP
musette_sf Apr 2017 #1
Sculpin Beauregard Apr 2017 #2
Name removed Apr 2017 #3
vi5 Apr 2017 #4
JudyM Apr 2017 #6
JI7 Apr 2017 #12
vi5 Apr 2017 #17
JI7 Apr 2017 #18
vi5 Apr 2017 #27
0rganism Apr 2017 #13
brush Apr 2017 #26
vi5 Apr 2017 #28
brush Apr 2017 #30
vi5 May 2017 #31
kcr May 2017 #33
tblue37 Apr 2017 #29
Me. Apr 2017 #5
Name removed Apr 2017 #7
PatSeg Apr 2017 #9
Name removed Apr 2017 #10
PatSeg May 2017 #36
PatSeg Apr 2017 #8
Nevernose Apr 2017 #11
Adrahil Apr 2017 #16
Nevernose Apr 2017 #21
vi5 May 2017 #32
JI7 Apr 2017 #14
ProudLib72 Apr 2017 #15
certainot Apr 2017 #19
YOHABLO Apr 2017 #20
SunSeeker Apr 2017 #22
Shandris Apr 2017 #23
ProudLib72 Apr 2017 #25
kcr May 2017 #34
msongs Apr 2017 #24
betsuni May 2017 #35

Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 01:17 PM

1. K to the R




Agreed - it IS a gaslighting campaign, and it's not just coming from the Usual Suspect Rs.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 01:23 PM

2. Simple: "The Democratic Party is the non-treason party"

The Democratic Party doesn't cheat and steal elections.

The Democratic Party doesn't rely on secret societies that have been funded by Billionaire special interests to skew and distort education, ideology and funding to benefit the .01%.

The Democratic Party believes that healthcare is a BASIC GODDAMNED HUMAN RIGHT, and is NOT NEGOTIABLE, because this is what CIVILIZED SOCIETIES DO.

And of course, much more, a woman's right to choose, racial equality.

What does the GOP believe in? Lining the pockets of the .01%, and shoving regression and repression down everyone's throats, and keeping most people powerless so that nobody can challenge their power. The REGRESSIVE, OPRESSIVE Party.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)


Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 01:27 PM

4. This just proves again....

 

..that Democrats are horrible with their messaging.

I agree completely that our policies and platform and everything else are WAAAAAY more in touch than even the most mainstream republican position on any issue.

Just like every Democratic position and policy, when polled in a vacuum without any party identification or whatever else, polls very high and much higher than equivalent republican positions.

The question is not whether our policies are right or better or anything else. They are. The question is, how does the party get better at selling itself and these policies? That's where we are falling short.

The big problem is that too often our "powers that be" make the assumption that people will draw these connections without any of our politicians having to go out there and sell them and do any kind of marketing at all. And that relies on a level of intuition and intelligence that most of this country just does not have.

The way I see it, even with horrible marketing, and horrible media outreach and a general sense of laziness and not wanting to get their hands dirty Democrats STILL win more voters and still have half the country supporting them. If they would just get off their asses and start being more aggressive and straightforward in their defense of and selling of these policies and platforms they would be unstoppable.

The bottom line is they need to stop paying attention to and modeling everything they do after the cable news 24 hour cycle and perception of the way things are.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #4)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 02:47 PM

6. Absolutely agree, and apparently so does Pelosi.

It was good to see this today:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141763910

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Response to vi5 (Reply #4)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 03:32 PM

12. Messaging isn't an issue when it comes to black women and other minority groups

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Response to JI7 (Reply #12)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 03:44 PM

17. O.K.?

 

Not sure what you are saying? I agree. Many of those groups for obvious reasons recognize why civil rights, human rights, and economic equality are linked beyond question. They see it every day and they know. But I'm not sure how that absolves or lets Democrats off the hook for selling that same message to any other group. I don't think it would be contradictory in any way. Human rights and civil rights extend to an economic message. The Democratic party just needs to get better at selling that point. They don't have to change a single bit of their message but they also can't expect "This group gets it. Why don't YOU get it?!?!" to be a resonant message.

The thing is, the Democratic party USED to be good at this.

I'm a white guy from a working class family of white guys. Growing up, my extended family were all staunch democrats. Even when Democrats were fighting for and standing for civil rights and women's rights and all human rights, my family never said "Oh well, sure the Democrats are fighting for workers rights and unions and all of that, but I'm not going to support them because they also support women's rights and civil rights." It wasn't a question then because the Democrats did a good job selling their message that they stood for ALL people that needed to be stood for.

It's only the past 10-15 years or so that they've been somehow unable to mesh both of their key messages.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #17)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 03:48 PM

18. They voted against people like feingold and strickland

And for openly pro corporate anti worker republicans. These republicans didn't try to hide their positions as trump did.

People can say many things but i look at what they do.

The fact that they are sticking by trump even if he hasn't done anything to help workers says it all.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #18)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 07:27 PM

27. Uh....I agree....

 

I'm not sure we disagree. Maybe my posting is not particularly clear.

Personally I think trying to appeal to Trump voters is pure folly and not going to get us anywhere except down a deep abyss of losses.

The point is that we're not appealing to those people AND we're not appealing to a lot of demographics who don't like Trump either.

So there's something we're not doing right with our messaging. And I definitely do not think that doubling down on appealing to white racists in dying industries is the way to remedy that.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #4)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 03:33 PM

13. perhaps that is exactly what the poll is saying

messaging is extremely important. Republicans are masters of message as that is all they really have. Democrats seem to think things.like AM talk radio are irrelevant to success after decades of having it flung in our faces.

if this is the case, i contend Democrats are indeed "out of touch" in a way that continuously reinforces our "out of touch"-ness.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #4)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 06:52 PM

26. Our party gets hit by the repugs and also by those alledged to be our allies. All effin campaign...

we got hit by a certain senator who is supposed to be an ally. And it's still happening.

That contributes emmensely to the perception that the party is out of touch.

It's almost like the big lie technique. It keeps getting repeated enough people start to believe it.

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Response to brush (Reply #26)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 07:43 PM

28. Well....

 

that's the way things are working now and we've got to deal with the world we live in. We need people smart enough to figure out how to deal with it, not people to sit around whining about how unfair it is. Let's leave that to Trump and his lackeys.

"They other guys are worse!" doesn't work.

"They aren't being fair to us!!" doesn't work.

"Our policies are better, you just don't understand them!!!" doesn't work.

So how about some of these highly paid, supposedly very qualified people in charge of running our party try and figure out how to navigate the landscape we live in rather than the one we WANT to live in, and just figure out how to be better salespeople.

Obama managed it just fine. You can't tell me he's the only one in our entire party who knows how to craft and sell a message.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #28)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 08:02 PM

30. IMO the messaging has to work along with an effort to stop repug cheating

The first thing Perez should have done was to set up a permanent committee tasked with just that, to combat their cheating. It should be funded well with party funds, donations, however. There should be the best legal help, the best private investigators and volunteers to get after the cheating.

The committee should also have media liaisons to loudly and constantly publicize its progress and findings.

This will add to the message effort as it will let people what the repugs are up to and that we are fighting it.

Don't know why this hasn't been done. Is should have been done long ago.

Also a certain senator needs to be reigned in to curtail the constant attacks on the party.

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Response to brush (Reply #30)

Mon May 1, 2017, 06:42 AM

31. Let it go....

 

Again, if our message is not good enough, and strong enough, and believable enough that it can't withstand some criticism from an elderly socialist from a small state (or anyone for that matter) then the problem goes much deeper.

As for the rest of it about the cheating, I agree completely. It doesn't help to counter any impression or criticisms that Dems are weak and ineffectual when people see this stuff going on, see this cheating, see Republicans blocking everything a Democratic president tries to do, and all they see from us in response to this aggressive action and treason are shrugged shoulders and attempts to be nice and work within the rules. It doesn't help to counter any messaging when Republicans send out attack dogs to every show on cable news and we send out people who talk about policy and the rules and zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

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Response to brush (Reply #26)

Mon May 1, 2017, 06:55 AM

33. It's a very effective teqnique.

And once they've got them hooked on the repeated lie, they'll stick with it no matter how many facts are thrown at them.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #4)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 07:49 PM

29. Repubs LISTEN to people like Luntz and Gingrich about how to use language

to effectively move voters. Dems ignore George Lakoff, our own linguistic guru.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 02:34 PM

5. Excellent

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #7)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 03:16 PM

9. Welcome to DU!

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #9)


Response to PatSeg (Reply #9)

Mon May 1, 2017, 09:31 AM

36. Well, that was quick, sigh

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 03:16 PM

8. I have to agree with you

Any party could do with improvement, but for the most part, I don't think the Democratic party is "out of touch". As someone else mentioned, they aren't great with messaging though.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 03:29 PM

11. To harp on a common theme: salesmanship

We've got t do better at selling our messages -- and we have lots of messages, because we care about a lot of things

Also, the more I read "Shattered," the more I realize the problems at the top -- not the politicians themselves, like Clinton and Sanders, or "name" leaders like DWS or Brazille, but many of our behind the scenes people, just plain suck at their jobs and are more interested in personal power or "being right" than in winning elections.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #11)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 03:42 PM

16. It's hard to compete with bald-faced lies.

 

A large portion of the electorate are suckers. They believe the lies. Or more accurately, they are willing to accept lies if the liar hates brown people enough.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #16)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 03:58 PM

21. And ironically, I think it's white people to blame for the racists

Which obviously sounds dumb, but what I mean is that whenever so-called "white allies" ask what they can do, it's to not only confront racists about their racism, but learn how to do so persuasively. Political organizational trainings and leaderships are vital, but so is learning how to communicate our values and convince other people -- in this case, racists who don't even believe they're racists -- to share those values, or see how those values benefit everybody and not just one group.

And we've got to become activists again. Online stuff is vitally important, but an actual, face-to-face, human connection wins every time. We need to start building those connections with our neighbors, knocking on doors, hosting booths at the Pet Expo-Stravaganza. Be everywhere, all the time, with as much of our personal ability.

When Bush and Trump won, I felt simultaneously horrified to the core of my being and, strangely, a little bit...I don't have the word for it. I knew that I'd done everything in my power as a regular schmuck to make a difference, so at least I don't feel guilty.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #11)

Mon May 1, 2017, 06:47 AM

32. Right. On. The. Money.

 

"but many of our behind the scenes people, just plain suck at their jobs and are more interested in personal power or "being right" than in winning elections."

Atrios at eschatonblog.com keeps harping on this. Too many if not all of those behind the scenes folks clearly seem to glean their worldview and political perspective from having cable news on all goddamn day and start to internalize that bullshit themselves and find it more important and critical to respond to those narratives and those accusations more than they feel the need to get out there do some ground work and figure out what people want and what they want to hear.

We won big in 2008 by Dean in charge of the DNC getting lots of outsiders and lots of actual workers and volunteers who were on the ground to do as much as they could. Then once we were in, the reigns were handed over again to all of the supposedly brilliant insiders and everything went to shit.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 03:35 PM

14. It's not about being down to earth.the trump trash is not down to earth

It's about white people who can't deal with the country not being so white.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 03:38 PM

15. Forgot to add

The converse is also true. Republicans assure their base that they are top priority. It's the narrative that Ladeebug is always talking about. I happen to agree with her. Somehow republicans have conjured up a narrative to gaslight the entirety of America. If you are right wing, the gaslighting narrative distracts from the fact that republicans serve only the top 1%; if you are liberal, the gaslighting narrative causes you to doubt your party. The HUGE problem is that this narrative has been going on for so long that it has become part of our subconscious. We have been trained to self doubt.

The upshot of this is that you will never be able to convince the deplorables of the gaslighting campaign. I know there has been thread after thread about die hard tRump supporters who cannot see the evidence of their destruction in front of their noses. For instance, the coal miner with black lung disease who is willing to give up ACA and die because he believes in tRump.

Yes, the intransigence of the right is frustrating. However, the idea that we, too, are being led astray by the narrative should be of more concern. Look through a week's worth of DU threads to see how many are about the right blaming Democrats. According to the narrative, we are the obstructionists. Most of us here on DU see through the b.s. easily, but imagine a liberal isolated in a red state being bombarded with this rhetoric through the MSM. It's enough to make anyone doubt. I say that we are able to see through the b.s. here at DU, but I do believe that it has had an affect on us as well.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 03:52 PM

19. this is really not going to change as long as dems ignore Rcon radio

1000 radio stations not only amplifying faults but make them up out of thin air and then amplify them.

at the same time, trump's shit don't stink and obama is running a shadow govt coup from his DC home. that propaganda operation will play a major part in keeping trump in office and excusing his wars, corruption, disasters

democrats could transform the political equation merely by not ignoring rw radio, giving it the 'credit' it deserves, elevate limbaugh to head of the GOP and put RUSH tattoos on every republican politician and media pundit, boycotting all their station advertisers not just limbaugh's, and protesting the 88 universities that support 257 limbaugh stations.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 03:57 PM

20. Most of the American public are clueless, misinformed and subject to R-wing propaganda.

 

Who makes it that way? Corporate America. Even MSNBC regarded as the more liberal ''news organization" can't step over Corporate lines drawn to defend their profits.

By the way I am not buying this "survey'' I think it's full of bullshit.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 03:59 PM

22. K & R

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 04:03 PM

23. The reason some conspiracy theorists think we are 'out of touch'...

 

...might have something to do with the 1,000 or so legislative seats we've lost in the last several years nationwide, the loss of literally every stated (as opposed to intelligence/unstated) lever of power in the nation, the complete annihilation of 'the firewall' during the election, the fact that our sloganeers couldn't make a candidate whose ONLY weak point was her complete and total unlikability defeat a clown and started by making the fundamental mistake of campaign slogans: subservient versus campaign slogan: action (spoiler alert, action almost always wins).

It's amazing the things conspiracy theorists believe! Clearly, we all know the REAL truth. Hackers that can't be found used computers that can't be found to hack into databases that show no logs to 'influence' an election that just happened to mind control people into spontaneously turning into Nazi-sympathizing evil cretins just 8 years after they voted for a black man so they could elect the person who masterminded the ENTIRE operation, a businessman who is so incompetent he has to get a crash course on literally every topic from world leader, and we have ALL the evidence we need to prove it except no one is calling for it, showing it, mentioning it, talking about it, or using the UNIVERSAL military response that removes a literal coup.

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Response to Shandris (Reply #23)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 06:22 PM

25. Yes, mind control

You have to ask how they were able to mind control people out of voting for HRC. I mean, how the hell did they convince people to even be on the fence? "Locker room talk" versus "her emails!" The republicans are able to create slogans and disseminate them rapidly over social media and the MSM. They managed to co-opt the "deplorables" slogan seemingly within seconds. And it was nationwide, crossing socio-economic barriers. Why are we not able to do that? Why is it that the TRUTH is so difficult to disseminate? I still say that it's because they control the dialogue (should it be "monologue" at this point?) and their rhetoric has been subtly brainwashing America since the W administration.

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Response to Shandris (Reply #23)

Mon May 1, 2017, 07:01 AM

34. When some seemingly willfully ignore

Things like gerrymandering, voter suppression, and a dominant right wing media, and stick to the idea that there can only be one possible reason Democrats lose! They suck! Let's hammer THAT message constantly! Then you know what? I don't think it's far fetched to call them conspiracy theories.



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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Sun Apr 30, 2017, 06:09 PM

24. hillary got millions more votes, dems for congress got millions more votes than repubs. out of touch

abandoned the states and local is more like it

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Mon May 1, 2017, 07:09 AM

35. K&R

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