Well despite the theories posited yesterday, I'm not a Russian or a RWNJ out to sow discord

[The Polack MSgt]

I am a Democrat, lifelong pro labor pro choice pro equality capital D Democrat. When I question who Senators Warren's and Sanders' target audience has been these last 2 weeks, this history is where my ire comes from.

I believe I can speak for many of us here at DU when I say this - All through Reagan, Bush one and two, the contract on America era and the Party of Hell No era we have been Democrats. We were fighting and - as it is now popular to say - Resisting the GOP throughout those years and we still are.

We are told repeatedly that there are "disaffected voters" who kinda hate our party, just, you know, less than the Trump Party. So we need to have our high profile Democrats acknowledge their issues and welcome them to our table. And we also need to change to accommodate a Senator who's dislike for our party never waned enough for him to consider joining it.

Until he needed to.

President Obama and Secretary Clinton are fucking important to us but they appear to be objects of disdain to the very people who we are told we now have to welcome. So when the leading Progressive voices give remarks about how President Obama taking a paying gig is disappointing, and that many Democrats have been siding with big business and against the little guy, it flat pisses us off.

I also remember that these disaffected voters hate Secretary Clinton because they swallowed the R.W. lies and smears of the last 3 decades. So, yeah. Forgive me if I don't radiate perfect confidence in their opinions.

I know which other audience hold Pres. Obama and Sec. Clinton as objects of disdain, so that is why these echos of R.W. criticisms - coming from a Democratic Senator no less - will always get a reaction.

And that - as I've stated several times on several threads is why I wonder who the hell are they talking to?

[LexVegas]

1. Angry white men. nt

[The Polack MSgt]

4. That's me. NT

[hrmjustin]

2. I just wish they would do a better job at picking their battles.

Listening to criticism is not easy and no doubt our party deserves some, but I wish they would lay off the criticism a bit. They could unite the left in going after Trump.

[Squinch]

6. Liz is breaking my heart.

[DFW]

56. Check to see if the one remark being played up wasn't taken out of context

I don't think she meant anything like what so many have been yelling about this last day or so.

[Tiggeroshii]

23. We aren't going to win by going after Trump.

Last edited Tue May 2, 2017, 10:42 PM - Edit history (1)

It's been tried and we lost. We can win by acknowledging and addressing our shortcomings and unifying around actual winning policy.

[hrmjustin]

27. We can do both.

[Demsrule86]

29. That is total bull shit...you win by going after the other party and defending your own...

I have to wonder if some who say these things ever win at anything.

[Tiggeroshii]

36. History will tell all. Read about Silvio Berlusconi and how they got him out

And it might start to make sense...

[Demsrule86]

50. No it doesn't... your reaching here.

And we need to go after the GOP and support our party.

[Tiggeroshii]

54. Here

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/opinion/what-a-trump-america-can-learn-from-a-berlusconi-italy.html

[Cha]

41. BS & EW are Ignorantly going after President Obama..

Ignorant attacks.. for their own little agenda.

[Laurian]

3. I'm with you on this.

It irritates the hell out of me to see/hear criticism of President Obama and Secretary Clinton from those who identify as progressive. It seems self serving to me and makes me question their motives as well.

[Eko]

5. Very nicely put.

[Warpy]

7. Some people here are still nursing huge grudges over the primary

and are rising to stinkbait chummed out on other sites by Russian trolls. Then they bring it here.

They've forgotten a lot of important things, like other Democrats are not the enemy, Republicans are.

That candidates and former candidates and other people in office have a right to voice opinions, even unpopular ones.

That this party isn't a top-down, lockstep party like that other one so it doesn't matter if somebody says something his or her opposition doesn't like. Big deal, people.

And mostly that the primary is OVER and has been for months. It's time to let go of the grudges, people. Bury them deeply. Move on. We have more important problems than people whose feelings were hurt because other people dared to disagree with them and vote for other candidates.

[hrmjustin]

8. My criticism of Sanders has nothing to do with the primary.

He tried to win and that is politics.

[pnwmom]

9. President Obama is being criticized NOW for a speech he hasn't even given yet.

Defending him has nothing to do with the primary.

[The Polack MSgt]

10. Thank you. It's been close to a year since the primaries ended...

Plenty of things happened since then to piss me off

[rzemanfl]

13. Do you really think there are no Russian trolls on or trying to be on DU? n/t

[Warpy]

15. I know there are

Low post count + inflammatory posts about either Clinton or Sanders = TROLL. My ignore list groweth daily, most of them having multiple posts hidden and a few "flagged for review."

[rzemanfl]

17. The bit about rising to stinkbait and bringing it here confused me. I am easily confused. n/t

[Warpy]

18. Some are high post count people who should know better

and have been good posters in the past before they started nursing a grudge.

[rzemanfl]

20. True. n/t

[Ninsianna]

16. I think that's great advice.

Sadly, people seem to be choosing to nurse their grudges and being rather hypersensitive about any criticism of their favorite candidate. People disagreed with them, most have moved on, but some seem to have what seems at times to be a religious fervor about defending against heresy.

I've seen legitimate criticism, nothing that abuses the politician, but which criticizes words and actions being reacted to as if it was something entirely else.

In the past few months these people have been out there doing stuff and saying stuff, that's not about the primary.

It's in the news that there are investigations going on but any mention of what's kind of a big story about money and corruption and influence peddling is dismissed as an "attack" because of the primaries.

It's time to let those grudges go, and to realize that these are people, who do and say good things and bad, and who are not perfect. It's okay for us to talk about what's being said and done now and things that are happening in the present, it would also behoove us to talk about what happened in the past, if we can do so without flying off into a rage at anyone who dares to disagree with us.

That doesn't seem to be happening here, being on constant attack and projecting one's own primary onto people who clearly are not discussing the primaries, but what happened yesterday is not healthy. The paranoid rants about how anyone who's new "MUST BE A RUSSIAN TROLL !11!1111" when they disagree with some posters are silly.

Voting for other candidates in the GE is what got us here, and it's legitimate to be angry at people for doing that when the margins were so small and the reasons so obviously based on deliberate lies, pure propaganda and just simply not knowing things work in the US.


The sheer number of people who don't know (or pretend not to) that parties don't control elections in the US is astonishing, as an example.

Heightened emotions are understandable, pretending a comment about what happened yesterday or the week before is because of the primaries is not.

[Cha]

38. Bull. That's what his fans like to claim.. blame it on

"the primary".. BS is so perfect in everything he says.. it could only be that.

Well your attempt at Deflection isn't working.

BS is responsible for what he says and he will be called out on it.

[betsuni]

11. I'm with you.

"Forgive me if I don't radiate perfect confidence in their opinions" -- exactly. Some people seem to spend an awful lot of time trying to make everything about the primaries and calling us trolls. Wonder why.

[Me.]

12. Fed Up With Back Stabbers

They receive support and then turn and stick the knife in. Enough. Either dance with the one that brought you or get another partner.

[tiredtoo]

14. one point you seem to be missing here

The disaffected voters did not hate Secretary Clinton, they hated the status quo.

[Ninsianna]

19. They sure sounded like they hated her, when you listened to their words.

A general hatred of the status quo without any understanding of where we are, how we got here and how we can realistically move on is just plain stupid.

The status quo has changed, and they wanted change, how're they liking the change status quo now? And why do they get so upset when they got exactly what they wanted, despite not having a clue what that was?

[tiredtoo]

21. not here to refight the primary

just wanted to post my thoughts on why Democrats lost last election. Blaming it on disaffected voters hating Clinton will not move us forward.
The voters had an opinion of where we are, how we got here and what to do. Right or wrong they expressed this at the polls.

[Ninsianna]

37. That's nice, since that's a pointless thing to do.

But pretending that the hate coming from people who chose to believe lies told to them by fake "left" sites won't move us forward at all.

To do that, we actually have to confront what went on, that isn't about refighting the primary it's about accepting reality about what these opinions were based on, how they were that easily lied to, and how we fix the situation that led people to be so uninformed about things like how government works and how to identify lies, so we don't keep going forward with a deeply ignorant electorate that doesn't know things.

It's wrong to ignore how these few were so duped into staying home, wasting their votes or conned into supporting third parties they know nothing about and have no vested interest in.

To get a clear picture, we need to open our eyes, not just continue the false narrative that it was all about the candidate herself. That's simply not true, the polls and the 66 million people who voted for her expressed that this was not the case.

[obamanut2012]

25. nah, they hated her

Either the lies about her which they decided to believe, or her gender, or both.

The hate -- and often the misogyny -- was appalling and breathtaking.

[tiredtoo]

26. oh you must be talking about the trump supporters, sorry i misunderstood op.

[Ninsianna]

39. It wasn't just the Trump supporters.

[Cha]

40. The "status quo"? You mean issues like Health Care covering

Pre-existing Conditions, Gay Rights, Women's Rights, a chance to get a Liberal Judge on SCOTUS, the continuing of President Obama's work on the Climate Change Crisis?

The ignorant brainwashing Hillary hate is legend.. so don't try to deny it.

[stonecutter357]

22. Do you have a link to The Polack MSgt being called Russian or a RWNJ ?

I don't think you DO

[Cha]

43. Unfortunately, I've seen them, stonecutter.. those

calling out BS & EW for their ignorant attacks on President Obama have been called "Russian trolls or just trolls".

Course a couple of the posts are not longer visible.

[Ninsianna]

51. The posts were removed, but there are plenty of paranoid accusations

that anyone new who is disagreeing with a certain clique must be a Russian troll. Not hard to find, it's a few people who consistently project.

[stonecutter357]

58. Do you have a link to Ninsianna being called Russian or a RWNJ ?

[Ninsianna]

59. Do you have a link to my asserting that specific point?

If so, I will gladly back up the assertion I supposedly made.

Barring that my post stands unrefuted, unread, and not understood t would seem.

[The Polack MSgt]

60. Sorry for the late reply

Technically, you are correct. Although several other threads I was participating in brought up Russians, and RWNJ trolls, I was just called a goose stepping sycophant and a purity troll on my own thread.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9002176

So, yeah.

Peace

[Hekate]

24. Don't hold yourself back; tell us how you really feel. Thank you for this righteous rant.

[irisblue]

28. You? Russian or RWNJ?

😂😅

[Quayblue]

47. Seriously!!

The deflection is too obvious.

[yardwork]

30. Well said. /nt

[JCanete]

31. Right wing criticisms sound entirely different than left wing criticisms. You might have right

wingers gleefully echoing left-wing criticism because it makes us look like hypocrites, or occasionally, left-wingers jumping onto some right-wing attack like bengazi, but you can tell what direction a criticism originates from by the message it is imparting.

You can be pissed off all you want, but the reality is that Democrats DO have a mixed record on this issue. It is easily provable. Would you rather stick your head in the sand or improve our record and make us immune to these sorts of criticisms so that we can finally tear republicans a new one when it comes to corporate ties?

People who think Russians are amongst us sewing discord at this point, after the election...okay...could be, but it doesn't really make that much sense to me. Lets just say I'm skeptical.

[Ninsianna]

52. Not this cycle. We actually had the supposed left wing relishing all the stuff the right made up

And hand fed to them, and then they made it a point to echo their parrots.

You can actually tell the direction of the talking points, but people get awfully upset when you point it out. Supposedliberals using 20 year old epithets and talking points fom the right was unmistakeable. People seem to enjoy the hypocrisy, and the view from their sand holes. The right wing memes are easier to cut and paste and don't require thought.

Discord was the whole plan, to keep Hillary fron governing, now it's working just to keep an organized resistance, or attempting to. No one thought Trump would win, they did not know the extent of anti democratic corruption from GOP.

[JCanete]

57. I left room for that. That doesn't change the fact that a left-wing criticism is a left wing

criticism. If left wingers are using right wing criticisms, for shame. If right-wingers are using left-wing criticisms, then shame on us for being vulnerable on that front.

[sl8]

32. I never thought you were Russian, but I'm not convinced you're not one of Real Wives of New Jersey.

RWNJ ???

[The Polack MSgt]

35. I used to work in New Jersey

Twice a year around the Lakehurst/Toms River area. One evening I sat down the, bar in a Ruby Tuesday's from an actual Real House wife of New Jersey.

She was the loudest drunk I've been around, and I'm a retired NCO. That's saying a lot

[NobodyHere]

33. That's exactly the thread title

I would expect a RWNJ or Russian to post

[The Polack MSgt]

34. Shoot. Cover blown.

[R B Garr]

42. Amen, looks like we have our own purveyors of false and damaging narratives,

mostly to enhance their own images or their own books, even. It's getting too transparent now when they are criticizing a wildly popular ex-President. Maybe they could just promote their ideas and images without putting down Democrats

[Cha]

45. Oh yeah.. didn't think about that..

I just thought about them running for 2020.. ".. to boost their book sales makes perfect sense.

Mahalo, R B Garr

[R B Garr]

46. Mahalo, Cha. That whole leftover narrative is very divisive, it's like

they're trying to milk it for every last drop despite the damage already done. I'm so tired of it.

[Cha]

48. They've already lost the Obama

Coalition..

Link to tweet

[R B Garr]

49. That's a huge loss. They are clueless about the divisiveness of that rhetoric.

It's a shame what this has all cost.

[Cha]

44. The ignorant attackers on President Obama are

only biting themselves in the ass.

BS found it "disgusting" and "compared it to working for trump" EW had no clue, either and then she attacks him on the Economy when she was there when he tried to get his bills passed with fucking Unprecedented OBSTRUCTION.

Link to tweet

They've already lost the Obama Coalition.

Thank you so much for your OP, TPMSgt

[KPN]

53. How many times are we going to rehash the same old points here?

This is really getting absurd. I am willing to move on if folks on the other side are. Can't we all just do that instead of looking for and taking every opportunity for pot shots? ... And please don't fall back to the argument that if certain high profile Senators didn't say certain things publicly, this "stuff" wouldn't happen.

[KPN]

55. I have a solution. Let's cut Defense spending massively and then just move on.