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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI know this might not be popular, but I tend not to be friends with racists, sexists and war mongers
Seriously, people. The same shit will just keep happening over and over again. It's their *scheme*. Broken record technique until they can divide and conquer.
Let me be clear about this: I know these people. I have lived amongst these people for years. Some are even in my family. I cannot stress this enough" YES they ARE fucking racist.
No *really*. They *are*. They just don't want to be *called* racist.
And they love authority. Seriously. they love being TOLD.
But anyone trying to suggest you need to "get them to come around" in the face of the biggest case of espionage and treason this nation has ever seen, is gaslighting you, whether they mean it or not.
Good reading: http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1/3/1616633/-Holding-Trump-voters-accountable-uncomfortable-and-needed-Otherwise-they-ll-keep-screwing-us-all
dchill
(38,321 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)we're already doing 2/3-3/4 of all activism from all reports. So guys can get off their buts and try and talk some sense into them- possibly they can help. I cannot. E bothered.
panader0
(25,816 posts)I am quite liberal. As a construction worker for 40 years, I have known
and befriended many guys who didn't believe the things I do. So I try to
educate them with facts. It's not always easy. I have made a few converts.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)They don't *care* about facts. Barack Obama was born in Kenya. Climate change is a hoax. So is the Holocaust. I could go on and on but it is a waste of time to try and convert anyone. If 45 tells them more people were at his inaugural, they will believe that.
This is not normal. There is no "try to understand".
herding cats
(19,549 posts)I know I do, too. Your situation sounds a lot like mine, and I can relate all too well. We're still outnumbered by extensive margins in Trump supporting red districts, though. It's in these districts in red states, where they know they're safe to spew their hate, that they don't hold back. They get their ugly on daily and relish in being hate driven assholes.
People not exposed to it cannot ever understand the debth of what's actually out there outside of their reality.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)That's why they've been calling themselves 'ditto heads' for 25 years.
herding cats
(19,549 posts)Unless you've dealt with them personally, you cannot grasp how hate filled and brainwashed they really are when they're running in a herd. Really, outside rational people can't understand what they're like when they "pack" up and self support their RW group think.
babylonsister
(170,963 posts)sheshe2
(83,341 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)are just a bunch of bigots. As for the people I know who like Trump, I don't tell them I am gay because they don't seem that they can handle it. Not a friendly bunch and I don't associate with them on purpose.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Dorian Gray
(13,469 posts)who voted for him and are now think he's a big buffoon/asshole.
I also have a mother in law who is vocally supportive of him and loves him.
There are different levels of support. People are complicated.
Some of them can be reached. Some of them not.
Hopefully enough of them can be reached to make a huge dent in 2018.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Many and I would guess a majority fit into your description.
But as I posted a couple of times in the thread that inspired this one, I have friends who vote for Trump, or at least not Hillary who are Pro-choice, have no qualms with LGBT rights and, at least in their minds are not racist. Now, if you define voting for Trump as racist, then there is no need to even continue this conversation.
I guarantee you none of my friends have ever been exposed to any writings nor media articles explain the subtle ways racism affects us. To a large part of middle class white American if you get along with people of color and do not use racial epithets then you are not racist. I know it is easy and accurate to scoff at that, but it does not change the fact.
There is an entire generation that came up under Reagan that feel that small government and low taxes is the only way to prosperity and they have a hard time listening to other views.
If we find a way to convince them that the Democratic Party holds the key to their own and the nations economic prosperity some of them will join us. Not all, not a majority, and there are many we just flat out do not want. But some of them have the makings of a good member of the Democratic Party.
How do I know? In 2012 I was a republican.
Have a nice evening.
babylonsister
(170,963 posts)I will welcome you here.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I might have prevented many votes I now regret!
Finding DU actually helped me take the final step to becoming a member of the Democratic Party. I was already inclined, but just need a push. And reading here did the job. And I did not violate the TOS. I did not join until I changed my registration!!
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)and there ain't a whole lot of daylight between the two, and you know it. To quote Alex Schiller:
"Bill Clinton cheats on his wife. Impeach him. Trump proudly brags about sexual assault (and has cheated on his wives). Elect him. Hillary oversaw the department of state while 4 people died in an embassy attack. Put her in jail. 2 Republicans were in office while over 200 people died in embassy attacks. No problem. Immigrants don't pay taxes. Round them up and kick them out. Trump doesn't pay taxes. He's a business genius. Hillary's foundation only spent 87% of their donations helping people. She's a crook. Trumps foundation paid off his debts, bought sculptures of him, and made political donations to avoid investigations while using less than 5% of funds for charity (and he got shut down by NY State). So savvy... Put him in the white house. Trump made 4 billion dollars in 40 years, when an index fund started at the same time with the same "small loans" he received would be worth $12 billion today... without a trail of bankruptcies, thousands of lawsuits and burned small business owners. He's a real business whiz. Hillary took a loss of $700k. She's a criminal. Trump is the first candidate in the modern era not to release his tax returns, and took a billion dollar loss in 1 year. Genius. Hillary takes responsibility for private email servers and apologizes. Not credible. Trump denies saying things (on the record) he actually said (on the record), he's just telling it like it is.
Your arguments are thin. Your ignorance of reality is shocking. Your double-standards are offensive, and your willingness to blindly support him and recycle the rhetoric is absurd. Your opinion is not fact. Your memes are not news articles. And your hypocrisy is not a platform."
- Alex Schiller
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)We really do not have anything further to discuss.
Have a nice evening.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)I do think you're a racist. I do think you're homophobic and I do think you're a misogynist. Racism, homophobia and misogyny are all a spectrum, and you're on it. You might not be 'cheering while the black man gets lynched' racist, but fuck if you didn't sell them the rope and look the other way..' ~Tess Rafferty, paraphrased.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Or perhaps it is because I am not all that literate and sometimes find it hard to express subtle nuances when typing.
I think if we were sitting in the same room we could come to an agreement.
I do not deny that bias was a part of every Trump voters decision. The question I have is did the even recognize it? I have friends who in their hearts of hearts believe that because they have friends and co-works they get along with who are people of color and find racial slurs totally unacceptable then they are surely not racist. But they do not understand the bias that is built into all of we southern whites because no one has taught it to them.
Realize when I say friends that by definition means they are pro-choice and have no problem with LGBT, which they do not. They have had not humanities education and while they are educated, it was 30 years ago. At Southern Universities. Hell, I bet they could not even give you a good definition of misogyny! But in these households the women are equal to the men. And again, they do not realize the unconscious bias they bring to the table.
I am truly not defending their choices, but am arguing that some of them have the potential to make good members of the Democratic party, without the party having to compromise at all.
The only reason, at least conscious reason vote republican is economic. They believe that small government and low taxes help the middle class because they have heard that from the time they were in middle school.
Finally I firmly believe that many of the Trump voters, and about 25% of the total voters in this country wear their racism proudly on their sleeves. I have to believe it because they are my family member in many cases. They are hopeless and frankly, deplorable. But there are some republicans, enough to make a difference I believe who can be good Democrats.
I was a republican not that long ago and I finally saw the light but only after I started reading articles and literature that made me uncomfortable. I am now a proud very liberal member of the Democratic Party. And do not call me progressive!! If a average guy like me can change others can to.
You have a nice evening. It is way past my bed time.
thbobby
(1,474 posts)A quality person admits and discusses them. I applaud you. With dishonest information so available, it is easy to be trapped in a bubble. Looking outside the bubble and getting out of the comfort zone it provides takes courage and intelligence. Welcome to DU! And congratulations on escaping your comfort zone.
KTM
(1,823 posts)If everyone thought as you do, and if nobody is changeable, then lets just get to the inevitable civil war. Looking through this thread, it's safe to say a lot of Democrats hold as much hate in their hearts as Republicans.
uriel1972
(4,261 posts)With many, many more to come. Hate? No, not in the end, not really. I pity them and their kind. Oppose? HELL YES!
If it wasn't a case of people's lives I would be happy to ignore them, but it is people's lives so we can't afford to let them loose on our lives. We must reach out by showing them how wrong they are. By opposing them at every turn.
As long as we say "It's alright to be racist, sexist etc. as long as they don't cross this line, oh you crossed this line... as long as you don't cross this line and I really mean it this time.. oh well then that line and I'm beginning to get angry now..." Then we aren't showing them anything except we are either fools and/or idiots.
Oppose... Oppose... and Oppose... and for a change of pace, Oppose...
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)We are no longer in a "love the sinner, hate the sin" era. The right wing have been treating us as the enemy as opposed to the rival, for decades now. It's time we stop negotiating with terrorists.
Beings friends with them enables this shit.
My old Aunt Rita's a sweet little lady, but if she poisons my kids, we're not eating at her house anymore.
Squinch
(50,773 posts)right tossed under the bus in this "hands across the waters" moment is the right of women to own their own bodies.
I am exhausted by this shit.
Laffy Kat
(16,356 posts)Cha
(295,912 posts)repub. There were many who voted for Hillary or didn't vote because they couldn't get behind a sexual predator who was just a stupid racist asshole.
Aristus
(66,095 posts)All I need to 'understand' about the deplorables is that they are wastes of chromosomes, and the sooner they all die off, the better. That's the good news. Medical research suggests that angry, uneducated, middle-aged white men are dying off at an unprecedented rate.
Can't come too soon...
Kaleva
(36,146 posts)Hillary would be president now if had been otherwise.
Aristus
(66,095 posts)spouses told them to.
When the spouses kick the bucket, maybe the Trump-widows will stay home on Election Day.
NRaleighLiberal
(59,940 posts)I agree!
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)of people?
I just can't.
uriel1972
(4,261 posts)I am and those like me (ie: everyone in the world who is not a straight, white male) are the people burnt at the... err thrown under the bus in this let's reach out to them program. This does not make me happy.
So far I have been able to pass as a straight, white male in most places I frequent, therefore so far I have been lucky. There will come a time when I cannot and I will be harmed because of it.
Once the hatred of all that is not straight, white and male has been normalised, if it has not been already then goodbye folks we're done for, for generations to come. I implore you don't for the sake of all that is good and humane abandon us in your desire for governmental power.
If you abandon your values for power, what then are you? Nothing but Republicans in different clothes.
Do not be this...
C Moon
(12,188 posts)50 Shades Of Blue
(9,773 posts)athena
(4,187 posts)Pretending that they are reasonable only reassures them that their hateful views are normal and acceptable. We have to draw the line somewhere.
Also, I don't know where this idea came from that liberals are somehow mean or disrespectful to Trump supporters. Not wanting to be friends with them, or choosing to stay away from them, is not disrespectful. They are the ones who are mean and disrespectful.
uriel1972
(4,261 posts)elmac
(4,642 posts)there is no cure for stupid.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)And It Is Popular. The Popular Freaking Truth!!!!
William769
(55,124 posts)I will say it again Fuck anyone that voted for Trump! You are correct about them being 'racists, sexists and war mongers'.
I am part of the LGBT community, I know first hand what these assholes are capable of doing (just watch a fucking trump rally).
They went after POC, really went after women and LGBT. The poor will not survive under these animals just like the aforementioned.
I will also say this, anyone and I do mean anyone that says they are trying to build a bridge between us and them (yes, it's us or them) is no friend of our party or us and has ulterior motives and speaks out of both sides of their mouths just like the lying assholes in charge of our government right now.
Seriously how stupid do you think we are? Hit the road jack & espouse your shit on RT.
sheshe2
(83,341 posts)Laffy Kat
(16,356 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,207 posts)And I don't care to. F**k 'em. While winning elections is important, sacrificing the rights & concerns of the many minority groups who make up the Democratic party is not an option for me. Until 2016, this was a given. Suddenly, we're flooded with "progressives" telling us we need to reach out to racists. It's really ironic since many of these same folks would go into conniptions whenever Obama made similar efforts at "outreach".
Orrex
(63,085 posts)I have been saying that since long before the Resident Chump seized power. Hell, I can post links to my many rants, if you want.
They do not want our "empathy" or our "outreach" or our "understanding." They want our silence and they want our subjugation. Neutrality on this is an endorsement of the oppressor, and there is no compromise.
Fuck every last one of those idiot racist fuckheads.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,207 posts)some reason they're willing to sacrifice my rights on the altar of "outreach" to a bunch of xenophobic white nationalists, who don't give a shit about their "outreach", and they certainly don't give a shit about POC. As an AA, I refuse to give over the party of my parents & grandparents to Neanderthals.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)no need to evolve your thinking? As somebody who has personally changed my mind on so many things as I came to understand them better, posts like this always make me think..."oh, so you were raised in a fairly liberal household and nobody weaned you on the wrong cool-aide and now you must just have no idea how anybody could have drunk that bad stuff..."
Look to history. There are points in it, hell, entire cultures in more modern history, where most of that nation or society thought or thinks a certain way about other people. Is it because they were mentally flawed in a physical way? Is it because they are morally flawed? Or are they ignorant, surrounded by ignorance and hatred and thus susceptible to it out of that need for acceptance, and as such incapable of certain levels of empathy with those who they think of as other?
By the way, I don't entirely buy your argument. There is no way people are listening to you unless there is some mutual respect. They don't just like being shit on and then that makes them come around to your side of things. Why would that work? They can be shit on by the people who are already shitting on them and telling them its trickle down. Sticking with what they think they know is a whole lot less scary for them because at least they think the ground is still under their feet and ten tons of shit. Why would they simply abandon their paradigm because you told them to and abused them? You'll have to explain it in more detail for me to get it.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)racism. Hell, imperialists sewed caste systems into the fabric of their conquered territories. Do you think that bigotry was intrinsic in the people of Rwanda, or do you think there's something to be said for mass indoctrination?
Orrex
(63,085 posts)If only...
JCanete
(5,272 posts)say anything close to that.
When I say respect humans as humans, I simply mean there's no magic there...there's no evil soul lurking underneath. They are products of their genetics as triggered by their environment. If you want to make hatred and evil about something intrinsic...if you want to lay it all at the feet of the individual, I would again, suggest to you that you look at history or even current events, and then tell me, "yes, 75% of Russians are monsters by birth...its something in their DNA." Is it that? Or are these humans being weaned on a certain distrust and hatred for the other?
It is counterproductive to get the cause wrong. You don't have to go all kumbaya with racists, or go that amazing mile that Martin Luther King junior did and love the worst of them, but you should see the problem for what it is...an institutional one. A top down one. And in that, you might start to see that people can be weaned off of racism as well. It takes a lack of empathy to be that cruel, and a lack of empathy is almost always a matter of ignorance. We can fight that.
druidity33
(6,435 posts)your viewpoint is so hard to understand for DUers. As a Union Steward i need to represent ALL people in my shop, and you know despite the political differences, i recognize we all want the same things in the workplace. I also try to educate and be as available as i can possibly be... sometimes that's really HARD. But you know what? I've been rewarded... sometimes it takes years of just being a solid honest person outspoken in your liberal beliefs, willing to challenge VOCALLY stupid Republican ideas. I've worn people down. Just by being who i am and knowledgeable. It beats alienating my neighbors and co-workers anyway.
Cheers to you. Don't let the folk here get you down. Keep on plugging the Democratic perspective. Honesty and Integrity are pillars in any argument... real difficult to refute when applied judiciously.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Moreover, psychopaths are not "indoctrinated." They are BORN.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)deficit. Do you go out and rage angrily at tornados?
we can do it
(12,118 posts)I tried talking and presenting facts. Was told end of discussion.
I will not speak to him again- unless of course he changes direction.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)The Polack MSgt
(13,159 posts)Doing racist things proves you are racist.
People need to keep the whole "we don't know what is in their heart" argument to themselves. Sick to death of the unearned benefit of the doubt these ash tray licking morons get from people here on DU
If you are doing some thing racist, it doesn't make a fart in a hurricane amount of difference how you justify yourself in your own mind.
The action itself - Voting for the cheeto chancre - is proof enough for any thinking being
Orrex
(63,085 posts)we can do it
(12,118 posts)Stop excusing them.
LexVegas
(6,005 posts)Alpeduez21
(1,739 posts)nolabear
(41,915 posts)I understand what you won't do. What will you do?
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Back in the W days, and after 9-11, I once had an altercation at the Department of Motor Vehicles with a RWNJ. (right wing nut job). He was bloviating aloud (as if the fucking DMV could be worse) about how glad he is that W was president when those towers fell. No one was really responding to him (and I'm sure that's not how it went when he rehearsed it 500 times while listening to Rush Limbaugh or whatever) so he just keep ratcheting it up until I shook my head in disagreement. I had had enough
'Let me *TELL* you somethin', little girl, the president provides you with the liberty to shake your head at me...you remember these three words, "Freedom, Liberty, Security" those are what WE (emphasizing that *I* am not a part of this "we" provide for you. Just remember those three words.
"That was a nice piece you performed there, little boy, but you can spare me your fucking sanctimony...a REAL president would have held Al Quaeda meetings. The only three words that have applied to the American people since the Supreme Court INSTALLED him are 'GRAB YOUR ANKLES'.
The place started laughing. You have to shut 'em DOWN.