The Obama campaign releases a new infographic.

[Swede]

http://www.barackobama.com/romney-tax-havens/

[longship]

1. Lots of question marks here

Who knows how much Rmoney is hiding?

R&

[cindyperry2010]

2. post it all over

[Bluerthanblue]

3. can someone explain why he'd have them offshore if there was no tax benefit

to doing so?

I just don't understand why he'd offshore if it didn't benefit him.

[ejbr]

12. The answer is easy...

he was getting his foreign policy bona fides.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

[freshwest]

38. Who he'll be representing, right? He sure doesn't give a damn about the USA.

[Scuba]

4. Hammer on this, then some more.

[joe1991]

5. meh, a bit desperate and cheesey

Looks like he's going after Romney just because he's rich,
and not how he attained it.

If I had millions I'd probably have a Swiss account also.

Go after Bain and the downsizing and outsourcing.

[Swede]

6. He's going after Romney for dodging taxes.

nt

[NYC Liberal]

8. Looks like he's going after Romney for dodging taxes.

[klook]

9. 4 out of 5 of these are not disclosed on Rmoney's tax returns

You don't have a problem with that?

[Beartracks]

25. I thought offshoring was so you didn't have to claim the $...?

Does stashing money in the Cayman islands like Romney mean that you don't have to claim the investment income? Or do you still have to do it... but stashing it in the Caymns just makes it easier to *hide* it?

==============

[klook]

26. As near as I can tell, stashing money in a foreign bank account is a way to dodge paying taxes

Sources:
Reporting a foreign bank account, bankrate.com
Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts, about.com
Treasury Department Form 90-22.1

Second Special Voluntary Disclosure Initiative Opens; Those Hiding Assets Offshore Face Aug. 31 deadline
The Internal Revenue Service announced today a special voluntary disclosure initiative designed to bring offshore money back into the U.S. tax system and help people with undisclosed income from hidden offshore accounts get current with their taxes. The new voluntary disclosure initiative will be available through Aug. 31, 2011.

“As we continue to amass more information and pursue more people internationally, the risk to individuals hiding assets offshore is increasing,” said IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman. “This new effort gives those hiding money in foreign accounts a tough, fair way to resolve their tax problems once and for all. And it gives people a chance to come in before we find them.”
- http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=235695,00.html

[shraby]

10. Romney needs going after because he isn't claiming what he owns.

He's hiding it from the tax man...and last I heard, that's illegal.
I have to claim as income the dollar I received as interest on my savings account over the year since I filed the year before. Yes, the "dollar".
Romney needs to claim up, and pay up.

[Bluerthanblue]

13. preaching "America" while sheltering money offshore is Cheesey-

and sleezy.

If I had millions, and played mr. Patriot, I'd keep my money at home.

If I had millions, I'd pay my dues. The "millions" aren't created in a vaccum- you can't be a millionare without other humans.

[calimary]

34. AGREED!!!

[JDPriestly]

16. Maybe that is where Romney deposits the money that he earns from

his foreign investments and his profits from the offshoring -- if any.

[xtraxritical]

22. Every large corporation is playing this game, all the rich folks too.

[Bandit]

43. How patriotic of you... Love America do you?

You want to be a tax dodger as well?

[lunatica]

50. Sounds like the Republican mantra

Why would you have a Swiss bank account? The only reason for that is so you don't have to pay your share of taxes in the US. And yet I see you have a union logo as an avatar. That's amazing.

[Warren Stupidity]

51. that dog wont roof.

nice try though.

[dionysus]

57. so you'd dodge taxes too if you were rich? next time, try harder. a union avatar doesn't cut it.

[agent46]

7. Obama seems to be missing a lot of real openings

Obama seems to be missing a lot of real openings for effective attacks against Romney. What is this? What undecided voter will bother with this kind of esoteric financial information?

Obama needs confrontational rhetoric that hits hard and pulls no punches. Releasing infographics - not so much.

[stockholmer]

11. if this is 'esoteric financial information', then America really IS truly doomed

I am hypercritical of your utterly dysfunctional education system, but if a person can't understand possible TAX EVASION, ffs, then they should not be voting in the first place.

[Bluerthanblue]

15. there is a graphic which goes along with this-

I can't get it to post but it's a photo of a Cayman beach with the words:

"Mitt Romney: BELIEVE IN AMERICA

INVEST IN THE CAYMANS"

it's designed like a travel poster and VERY effective in just a few short words for those "fast-food" "sound bite" voters.

[TalkingDog]

24. here's an alternate

[JDPriestly]

18. This "esoteric," intelligent stuff is the proof. It backs up the confrontational rhetoric.

If you don't believe Obama, look at the chart. Ask your own questions. If confrontational rhetoric satisfies you, there will be lots of that.

Problem is, the right with its huge war chest full of what it takes to buy airtime and election will challenge every claim Obama makes, question his truthfulness every time he speaks, and let Romney's lies go unchallenged.

So Democrats have to prove their facts.

Republicans only have to repeat their falsehoods until they feel like facts.

[agent46]

23. Believe me

I'm far from satisfied with the level of insane babble that passes for discourse these days. In fact, I'm despairing at what I see.

Yes you're right about having the documented facts to back up the rhetoric. Propaganda has trained the population to a level of emotional brain stem response to whatever they're shown in the free media. We're way past actual discourse and into dangerous territory where the image is the truth here and I don't see the Obama campaign recognizing that in their political strategies.

[KurtNYC]

42. This kind of stuff makes Democrats seem like tax lovers

Not wanting to pay taxes is about the most normal thing Romney does. This is a non-starter in the election but may play well with Obama's base of small donors.

My hunch is that we won't see the really hard hitting Obama campaign until after the GOP convention and the last 3 weeks of the campaign will devastate Romney.

[BklnDem75]

44. Obama ran on making the rich pay their fair share of taxes...

I don't know how this is different. They're still effectively hurting Rmoney with Bain, this is just a gut punch while he guards his face. Repukes are trying to take the label of personal responsibility. Putting a spotlight on things like this flies right in the face of any such claim. Any good strategist will create openings and hit it hard.

[Warren Stupidity]

53. oh bullshit. Serously? RMoney is a lying out of touch rich idiot with millions stashed in offshore

accounts. None of us have millions, let alone millions stashed in offshore accounts. He is Richy Rich RMoney, and that needs to be pointed out 24/7.

Driving that home, along with the nutball kkkookery and the women hating fundaloonery is what is going to win this election.

[Warren Stupidity]

52. honeypot honeypot mmm mmm honeypot

[Scurrilous]

14. K & R

[Bluerthanblue]

17. trying to link the simple graphic

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/20748169@N00/7502843658/][img][/img][/url]

[sakabatou]

20. It worked and it's awesome

[Bluerthanblue]

21. finally! thanks-

it's succinct, and the other one fleshes it out very well imo.

[SunSeeker]

19. K&R

[Blanks]

27. This ad should not come from the Obama camp at all.

I think the criticism (or whatever you want to call it) from Clinton about going after Bain applies here also.

Not that this type of negative campaigning shouldn't go against Romney; but the president should be above this kind of attack. It does look like he's attacking the wealthy. This should come from the democrats or a PAC, but not a sitting president.

It's an attack not worthy of the man holding the highest office in the land. One of his underlings could show it on a talk show or something, but it shouldn't have the president's name on it.

[kestrel91316]

28. Thank you for your concern.

[Swede]

29. He's just pointing out his opponents blatant hypocrisy.

America is in trouble and this rich POS is hiding money from the US government,while running to become it's President. Very apropos.

[progree]

31. Not all wealthy people have tax haven bank accounts. And why do you think Romney has one in Caymans

and other known tax havens?

Though not wealthy, I have some of my IRA invested in foreign countries, e.g. Vanguard Emerging Markets and some international stock index fund, also through Vanguard. As do millions of Americans have investments in funds that invest overseas. The difference from Romney is that fund companies like Vanguard and Fidelity report all earnings of these funds to the IRS, just as they do funds invested in the U.S. such as the Vanguard S&P 500 index fund.

Anyway, in case you are confusing investing in foreign stocks (directly or via mutual funds) with hiding one's money in a tax haven like the Cayman Islands.

Have you heard *ANY* reason for investing anything in Cayman Island funds other than that they don't disclose anything to the IRS?

Have you read #26 in this discussion?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=902571

Going after tax cheats is different than going after the wealthy.

I dunno, I give up.

[Bluerthanblue]

49. why do we think Romney has accounts in the Caymans?

ummmm.... because his lawyers admit that he does?


Paying your "fair share" is even more important when your share is enormous.

There is a sad irony that those who possess so much money are able to employ others to find ways to avoid contributing back to the system which enabled them to amass such large excesses.

What is money in reality- it is the promise of labor or goods- The wealthy cannot cash in on their booty without lowly workers. People Mr. Romney seems to give little thought or consideration to -outside of how they benefit him and his.

[progree]

64. Answer: almost certainly to cheat on his taxes

My message #31 was to the Blanks #27 who said Obama shouldn't be attacking the wealthy. I was trying to point out to him that Obama wasn't attacking his wealth, but rather attacking his hiding his money in offshore tax haven accounts.

[Bluerthanblue]

65. ack!!

got ya- My apologies- I missed the point.
I can be pretty dense sometimes.

[klook]

35. I think the President is prepared to sacrifice the

Tax Dodger vote. Risky strategy? Maybe. But I think he can handle the blowback from this one.

[Warren Stupidity]

54. what you are shooting?

Blanks. This is like jeopardy?

[Blanks]

59. How is this like jeopardy?

You've lost me?

[Alexander]

30. Lots of concern trolls on this thread. This graphic must be scaring Mittens.

[BumRushDaShow]

32. Yup. It's like a knee-jerk reaction

to a bullseye hit.

As they say - if you throw a rock in a pig pen, the one that squeals is the one that got hit.

[jillan]

33. As Joe Biden recently said at a campaign event - Americans have a choice...

they can vote for the man who has a Swiss Bank account or they can vote for the man that doesn't.

[Blanks]

46. Biden is the perfect person to keep this alive...

However, the president should be touting his accomplishments; and not getting himself dirty with this.

What's that old saying? Drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

This is a kill shot for the democrats; the president doesn't need to touch it.

[Liberal_in_LA]

36. kick. cheap bastard

[Tarheel_Dem]

37. Awesome. Thanks for posting. Pay no attention to the "concerned" posts.

[DCKit]

39. Cruel to be kind.

I'm taking the same measures with family. I recommend it.

[nxylas]

40. Demand to see his tax returns

And then if he does release them, bang on about how they're obviously fake and if you analyse them in Photoshop you can move the figures around and yargle blargle BLAAARGH!

[sulphurdunn]

41. Lady Wall Street

has pretty much dumped Obama for the Mittster. It makes sense, both of them growing up together and belonging to the same country club and what not. One could say she's traded up. I wonder if Obama has realized what a fickle mistress she always was or how futile it is for him to continue wooing her?

[bonniebgood]

45. What's the difference between negative attacks

and telling the truth in an ad? And why is proceeds from life insurance is tax free
while (un) employment insurance is taxable?

[leftylauren]

47. Is what he is doing here illegal?

I know the likelihood of getting prosecuted is little to none but hypothetically speaking is this something he could go to jail for?

If it is indeed legal just unethical this is not something that is going to change conservative's minds but if its is illegal then it has a chance to make an impact.

[dionysus]

55. in case the point escapes you, it proves romney is a greedy, tax dodging douchebag.

[leftylauren]

61. I completely agree Romney is a greedy tax dodging douchebag, But I'm not voting for him regardless.

It's the ones that think as long as he isn't breaking the law then it's ok in their eyes and will still vote for him. They just spin it as the left attacking his success.
I just trying to figure out how to frame an argument with a point that conservatives might care about. They could care less about greed but they may care about illegal activity.

[dionysus]

63. maybe. a lot of republicans conveniently look the other way when their own break laws.

it's amazing the shit they will justify...

[Warren Stupidity]

56. campaigns are not about capturing the other guy's base.

they are about persuading the middle. Painting RMoney as an elite hypocritical filthy rich liar is all good.

[leftylauren]

62. You're right I should have made my statement as changing an independent's mind not a conservative's.

Just like they are not going to change my mind ever there is no info-graphic would ever change a conservative's mind.

[Blanks]

48. Nothing is going to change a conservative's mind anyway.

The question is; will this sway independents.

I have to say; it does not view well on a mobile device, and there is a growing number of people who exclusively use mobile devices (like myself).

The message, while effectively negative toward the conservatives (regardless of whether it is an example of illegal behavior or not) in its current form on a mobile device is not effective.

Go ahead and put the little rolling around laughing emoticons and call me a troll. I don't believe in its current form, coming from the white house; it will sway independent voters.

If what he's doing is illegal; why hasn't the IRS gone after him? If its not illegal; in some people's eyes (let's call those people independent voters) he just looks like he's smart enough to beat the tax system (which they probably view as bad anyway).

Either way it doesn't make Obama look better; at best it makes his administration look like they're not going after tax evasion aggressive enough. At worst it makes him look like he's bitter because he isn't rich.

Again, the message is good, the graphic is not, and it should not come from the Obama campaign.

[Warren Stupidity]

58. And the talking points are in.

"If what he was doing was illegal"
"Should not be coming from the Obama campaign"
"Will not be effective"

I'm guessing that there is a mild panic attack over at RNC and that the net brigade has been called out.

[Blanks]

60. ...and they are encouraging the Obama campaign to pursue a poor strategy.

You've made up your mind that this is good. I get it.

Just because others don't think that this is not an effective campaign message; doesn't make them from the RNC.

If we're all thinking alike; some of us aren't thinking at all.

Besides, if you think these are possible RNC talking points; isn't it better to shore up a response here? Instead of them coming up with these criticisms first. I believe that's how intelligent people operate; less agreeing with every idea that seems good; more anticipating responses and preparing rebuttals.

It does help explain why the democrats aren't doing so well. An inability to see things from the swing voters perspective.