Colbert has no regrets: Late-night host defends controversial Trump Putin c*ck holster joke

[Rhiannon12866]

CBS host Stephen Colbert on Wednesday defended his controversial “Late Night” joke that ignited calls for his resignation from CBS, insisting while he doesn’t “regret” his words, they “were cruder than they needed to be.”

“Welcome to ‘The Late Show.’ I’m your host, Stephen Colbert,” Colbert said on Wednesday’s show, Variety reports. “Still? I am still the host? I’m still the host!!”

Colbert was referring to renewed calls to #FireColbert, a hashtag that gained increased attention after the “Late Show” host’s opening Monday night, wherein he defended fellow CBS host John Dickerson against Trump’s attacks by declaring, “Sir, the only thing your mouth is good for is being Vladimir Putin’s c*ck holster” (“sir,” in this case, referring to U.S. president Donald J. Trump).

Colbert’s remarks prompted calls for CBS to fire the beloved host. The host addressed those calls, arguing Trump has a much more powerful platform than he.

“Now, if you saw my monologue Monday, you know that I was a little upset at Donald Trump for insulting a friend of mine,” Colbert continued. “So at the end of that monologue I had a few choice insults for the president in return. I don’t regret that. He, I believe, can take care of himself. I have jokes; he has the launch codes. So, it’s a fair fight.”


More: https://www.rawstory.com/2017/05/colbert-has-no-regrets-late-night-host-defends-controversial-trump-putin-cck-holster-joke/

[Warpy]

1. Despite Republican attempts at gaslighting

it wasn't a gay joke, it was a dominance joke and he landed it perfectly.

Deal with it, assholes.

[Rhiannon12866]

2. Jim Parsons was his guest tonight and brought it up - he had no problem with it.

He didn't see any homophobia.

[Pluvious]

76. If Putin was female, we'd not say it was a gay joke

Perhaps it was excessively crude language.

Colbert's only sin, IMHO, is descending to the Pussygrabber's own level.

[Ken Burch]

118. George Takei seemed to be cool with it, too.

(that said, I respect the views of those LGBTQ people who do have issues with it).

[Orsino]

29. It was also a gay "joke"...

...and he has almost apologized for the wording.

But you may be absolutely right about the gaslighting. None of the wingnut calls for Colbert's firing I've seen were objecting to the homophobia, but only to the disprepect for Trump. That was never going to go far, and anone who would've signed on was already boycotting the show. It was a lot of nothing.

[Behind the Aegis]

3. What a shame.

The entire monologue was quite good, but he didn't need the homophobic slur. Just because the RW is hypocritically screeching about it, it doesn't mean it isn't homophobic in nature. But hey, I am just a cock-holster myself, so what do I know.

[Rhiannon12866]

4. Jim Parsons was on tonight and didn't see any homophobia - he brought it up.

But the part I liked best was that they got together after the interview to introduce rescue puppies looking for homes. They both obviously love dogs...

[pnwmom]

6. So? Because one guy had no problem with it, it's fine?

Well, I know gay guys who DID have a problem with it.

And I don't blame them. Using a gay slur because it will be perceived as an insult by Putin and DT is NOT okay, from my point of view. It just adds to the homophobic culture we live in.

[Behind the Aegis]

7. Good for Jim.

However, Colbert's remark was homophobic in nature. The irony of the entire situation is the fact the RW are screeching about homophobia, as if they give two shits, and the left are whining about the fact the RW actually got something right, but because they are RW, then the homophobia doesn't count; it does!

The joke could have been as funny if he said he was an ass kisser. The "cock sucking" aspect is where the problem is. Some straight people, and a few gay people, don't seem to be bothered by or even understand the history of this slur. Personally, I see this as yet one more example of homophobia getting a pass because the target is someone we don't like. It is in the same vein of those who "couldn't see the problem" with "mAnn Coulter" being transphobic. Oh well.

I am glad they love dogs.

[pnwmom]

9. +1000. n/t

[Rhiannon12866]

10. That confused me, too.

The RW must hate Stephen Colbert because he skewers Trump - and everything he stands for - every night. That's why he's become so popular with the rest of us - starting with The Daily Show - and his memorable performance at the 2006 Washington Correspondents' Dinner. So for them to be calling for him to be fired because of homophobic remarks really is the height of irony. But I guess they'll use any excuse, they're not exactly known for honesty.

And I didn't happen to catch that monologue, only saw him - and his guest - addressing the fallout tonight. When someone posted the quote as the title of the monologue video here on DU, my first thought was that it was alertable, seriously expected it to be removed, not knowing it was what he had actually said.

Hopefully, this is a "teaching moment" for Colbert, since he has never been known for respecting boundaries - which is another reason he's become so popular. But this goes to show that those on the left have boundaries, too, no matter how much they despise the target.

Thanks for the further explanation - and those puppies were impossibly cute. Jim Parsons had pix of his own dog, a 13-year-old cutie.

[OnDoutside]

12. It isn't all about you. It can also be referred to in a hetro situation.

[Behind the Aegis]

13. Did I say or imply it was "all about me"?

Why, no, I didn't. I find your excuse...well, comical. Sure, "cock sucking" can be "hetero", but not when both of the targets are both MALE!

[OnDoutside]

16. You took offence after all, at a phrase which you admit could be either, missing the point

of Colbert's monologue for a touch of ye olde moral indignation. If it was directed at two gay men, I would absolutely back your complaint, but it wasn't. All that has been done here is the RW nutjobs have done a fine piece of distraction, for which some on the left fell for.

[Behind the Aegis]

17. Oh, I see, as a gay man, I have to adhere to YOUR standards?

The joke is nothing more than a "LOL! They are faggots!". Sorry, I don't find that funny. What I do find funny, in the sad way, is the RW picked up on it, and the left are ignoring it. I am so relieved you would find my offense palatable if it were acceptable to you, but, if I am being honest, I don't need your permission to be offended. You are slightly correct about one thing:

All that has been done here is the RW nutjobs have done a fine piece of distraction, for which some on the left fell for.

Yes, they, in their hypocrisy, are acting as if homophobia is important to them; but then again, that is what a few on the left are doing too. "Fag jokes" are funny when the target is someone/something we don't like, right?

[OnDoutside]

18. As I don't have to adhere to YOUR standards of reading a false narrative into what he said.

Of course you don't need my permission to be offended, but in an open forum where people have differing opinions, not everyone will agree with you (or me).

You don't have to not like someone/something to tell a joke, it can be a joke in it's own right. That Trump might give head to Putin, doesn't say they are both gay, but that Trump is doing everything to please his master.

This wasn't a Fag joke, it wasn't told to be a Fag joke.

[Behind the Aegis]

19. I didn't require you to adhere to my standards, that was implied by you to me.

It isn't about the idea of subservience, it is how it is implied. History is important. It should be learned.

I was a clumsy "fag" joke. It doesn't rank up there with what is happening in Chechnya, but it is important to call it out. Unlike the RW, I actually am confronting this for the right reasons.

[OnDoutside]

22. Not quite so !

I was giving my opinion, as you gave yours. History is indeed important, but it shouldn't hold us hostage.

[pnwmom]

60. Homophobia isn't history. It's still alive today -- and every time it is used or justified here,

that gets reinforced.

[OnDoutside]

65. You're on form today !!! 😊

[frankieallen]

40. So if Tucker Carlson said Obama uses his mouth as d**k holster for David Cameron,

you would not think that was offensive?
You would say "ah, no big deal, not a problem because you know, it's not a gay slur at all"

[BannonsLiver]

42. We all heard a helluva lot worse about Obama from that crowd.

[OnDoutside]

50. +1

[pnwmom]

61. And we objected. This is equally objectionable. n/t

[BannonsLiver]

98. Utterly ridiculous

[pnwmom]

99. Are you fine with calling DT the n word? He'd be insulted by that, too. nt

[BannonsLiver]

101. I'll tell you what I'm not fine with

Democrats attempting to make the case that one line in a satirical monologue is the same as 8 years of our president being called the n word, his children compared to monkeys and his wife all of the above. It's a false equivalency.

If you want to believe Colbert is a homophobe that's your call. It doesn't change anything.

[pnwmom]

103. I don't think Colbert is a homophobe, I think he made a mistake. And he realizes that.

But anyone who is willing to deliberately weaponize gay slurs is willing to USE gay people for their ends -- to dehumanize them. And that's wrong.

[OnDoutside]

49. I'd say it was inaccurate. It would be the other way round....

[treestar]

134. We would dislike it because we like Obama

more than as a gay slur. We don't agree Obama would curry Cameron's favor, either. But we do think Donald is currying favor with Pootie.

[pnwmom]

59. If someone directed a racial slur at DT, would that be fine with you, too?

Because there's no difference.

And the use of these slurs against groups of vulnerable people is dehumanizing. It's USING them.

There's no excuse. The English language offers a vast choice of other insults. Use them instead.

[OnDoutside]

63. Actually, so many on the left have no problem calling

Him orange and an orangutan. Should primates be complaining ?

[pnwmom]

71. You have just made an analogy comparing gay people to orangutans. Wow.

Feel free to call him any animal term you want, until the day comes when animals speak English and watch Colbert and read things online.

[OnDoutside]

75. If someone directed a racial slur at DT

That's what I was responding to, please don't write falsehoods.

[pnwmom]

77. Using a slur against DT that is commonly directed to a black person would be comparable

to using homophobic slurs against him.

Both are wrong. Both are dehumanizing hate speech.

[OnDoutside]

83. Funny I haven't heard anyone running to the mountain on

that one.

[pnwmom]

84. What is funny about it?

It's the same thing.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9014651

[OnDoutside]

113. As in, oddly enough.

[Dorian Gray]

23. I'm going to argue your point...

The reason why it the comment has the perceived shocking insult that it does is that both DT and Putin present themselves as the big Alpha hetero male.

So the idea that Trump's mouth is good for nothing other than for holding Putin's cock is shocking because a) that's obvious not alpha and b) for Trump to do so would mean he's "soooooo gay! OMGWTFBBQ!"

He's insulting Trump's manhood.

I don't think we get to tell anybody how they feel about the joke. Some people are offended. Some aren't. Comedy pushes boundaries and is often insulting.

Personally, I don't think Colbert should be fired, but I do think he should be open to hearing people's objections. He's essentially a good guy who has some ingrained prejudices (like most people), and to become a better person you listen to various POVs and feel empathy!

[treestar]

135. +1

[pnwmom]

55. It was directed at two MEN, which made it a homophobic slur. It wasn't about hetero sex,

which clearly isn't viewed as insulting ENOUGH.

[treestar]

137. What if they'd said it about some Republican female

politician? I think that would sound pretty bad too. Or Hillary, which the right would do (say such a thing).

[Caliman73]

64. I would ask you to consider and answer these questions...

What is the nature of the insult that Colbert is making? Why is being a "cock holster" bad? What makes it funny or terrible, or blah...or whatever?

Conversely, explain why it is an innocuous poke at someone.

[pnwmom]

69. Why is the idea of sex between men being used and viewed as the ultimate insult? This is just as

homophobic when used on the left as it is when used on the right.

[Caliman73]

81. Because a lot of men are homophobic

I would go one further however, and say that it also demeans women in a sense because typically in heterosexual sex, the woman is the "cock holster" and I would bet top dollar that many people see that as a subservient role.

I have read that in prison, there is a belief that the alpha receiving oral sex is considered heterosexual and their masculinity is not questioned while the "bitch" is considered lesser than.

That is where I tend to view certain jokes/insults as particularly difficult to justify, when they pathologize or demean activities (oral sex) or states of being (gay, woman, disabled) that are typical and natural.

[treestar]

133. But did Stephen really mean it that way?

He does not mean that those two would have an actual relationship. It is no more literal than "ass kissing" - we don't mean the person would actually do it. Just that one person is doing what another person wants or trying to curry favor with them.

[Behind the Aegis]

139. Intent is barely relevant.

While I don't think Colbert is a homophobe, it doesn't change the fact his comment has homophobic undertones. So, no, it is not the same as "ass kissing" which is a common expression for doing something to get something. No one has ever said, "He's a real cocksucker!" in order to mean the person is trying to curry favor.

[BannonsLiver]

41. +1

[pnwmom]

54. No, not when you are describing an act between two men. n/t

[OnDoutside]

57. But they are two heteros, unless you have a scoop for us ?

[pnwmom]

67. Doesn't matter. The slur involves language describing two men having sex. That makes it

a homophobic slur even if the men don't consider themselves gay.

[OnDoutside]

72. But you are foisting you're judgement on two

heterosexual men having imaginary sex and calling them homosexual when they wouldn't necessarily recognize it as such ? Maybe he wants to give Putin a good time for helping him beat Hillary, as a thank you ?

[pnwmom]

74. That's what you're doing when you say that we should use those terms because they'd be insulted.

What you can't see is that using those slurs is hurtful to real live gay people who have to live in the world where their sexuality is used as a slur.

[OnDoutside]

80. And what you can't see is

That act is also used by heterosexuals. It's a sexual act which was used by Colbert to describe the Trumpie's desire to meet all the needs of Putin.

[pnwmom]

105. But it is being used here to describe TWO MEN. In that case it describes gay sex.

And the point of the attack was that it is a special insult to accuse them of gay sex.

Which contributes to homophobia, whether the words are spoken by someone from the left or the right.

[OnDoutside]

114. I disagree, the point is he is so friendly to Putin,

He is willing to pleasure him.

[pnwmom]

119. And you are willing to attack Putin using slurs that hurt gay people. Got it. n/t

[OnDoutside]

122. There you go again, reading into something that is not there.

[Gravitycollapse]

124. "It isn't all about you." Seriously? I think you need to sit down.

There are untold number of homophobic assholes on the Right. We don't need assholes on the left telling gay and bi people when they're allowed to be offended.

Sit down.

[HoneyBadger]

25. Analingus would have been more contemporary and less homophobic

Colbert could have gone with this given another chance. 🙀

I used to see The Daily Show and the Colbert show live years ago. Everything Colbert does is incredibly tightly scripted and planned. He used to tell the same joke 5x over until he nailed it. Vs Jon who would shoot 10 minutes of air time in 10 minutes.

I wonder if Colbert still shoots like that.

[frankieallen]

36. +1000, I could not agree more sir. Just because a gay slur is used against a homophobic ass****,

does't mean it's not a gay slur. It was an offensive thing to say, and may even expose the true feelings of this hero of late night.
Someone who is sensitive to the struggles the gay community faces everyday in this country, would of known better, and would never say such a thing about anybody.
He clearly insinuates that c**k sucking between two consenting men is somehow abnormal and perverted. I'm glab Colbert is being called out on this, and he should straight up apologize for it, and take a good look at himself, and his attitudes toward people that are different than him.

[6000eliot]

68. Spare me. I laughed and wasn't in the least bit offended.

Still not. He should not apologize.

[frankieallen]

82. A lot of people on this board, and otherwise, disagree.

I know I do

[pnwmom]

104. So you've got thick skin. That doesn't mean that straight people using homophobic slurs is ok.n/t

[Ken Burch]

120. OK

Another question that comes to mind is-Is this the sort of joke that an LGBTQ comic could tell, but not a breeder comic(that is, is it a question of "owning the word&quot ?

I do understand some of the history of the phrase-it was a term straights used to denigrate gays back in the pre-Stonewall era(and still do in large parts of the world, but it was more overt even in "liberal" parts of the U.S. then), and it was the sort of word that might be said to a gay man by the group of guys who were just about to beat him to a pulp.

[frankieallen]

37. Jim Parsons is wrong, and quite frankly I would have alot more respect for him if he called out

Colbert on his comment. Just because Mr Parsons didn't see any homophobia, doesn't make it ok, not by a longshot.

[Rhiannon12866]

5. This was my favorite part of tonight's show: :)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/116131213

[pnwmom]

8. I'm with you on this. Just because the RW is screaming about this doesn't mean they're wrong.

Progressives who approve of this slur -- but only when it's convenient for them -- are just as hypocritical as the RWers who are complaining now.

[kcr]

51. But it does matter that they're being hypocritical. And they're calling for him to be fired.

While I mostly just see our side arguing over whether or not it was homophobic. I don't think it's quite the same thing. I don't want Colbert fired, but I'm not going to tell others that they shouldn't be offended.

[pnwmom]

53. I would like him to apologize. But hopefully he learned a lesson, unlike some people here. nt

[kcr]

62. I agree. it would be nice for him to apologize.

And I hate it when I see people claiming to be allies saying no one should be offended.

[lame54]

43. yes it did...

it was the best line of the monologue

it was a scathing indictment on who is really running this country

[6000eliot]

46. I'm gay too, and I say it WASN'T homophobia.

[Orrex]

66. I was struggling with this yesterday

I follow several local LGBT groups on Facebook, and they were discussing this at length. The unanimous consensus is that Colbert's joke was not itself homophobic but was, rather, playing on Conservative homophobia, in effect using the "enemy's" weapons against it.

That's not to say that local LGBT opinion speaks for the entire LGBT community, nor that the local opinion must be considered definitive, but it's a hell of a lot more definitive than my opinion, so I will happily defer to them.

My smarter half also made the rather sharp observation that Colbert was likening Trump to a sex worker servicing Putin in a quid pro quo transaction, citing the nature of their relationship and Trump's ongoing pro-Putin fluffery.

I will happily defer to her, as well.

[pnwmom]

86. I have not been following groups on FB but I know actual gay people in real life

who are deeply offended by this, and I can't blame them.

It is just as hypocritical when lefties weaponize this language as when RWers call them out on it.

[Orrex]

87. Ask 50 people and you'll likely get 50 answers

I accept that some are offended, and I accept that some are not.

In deference to those who were offended, I will not use the joke myself.

In deference to those who were not offended, I will not condemn Colbert.

[pnwmom]

88. Is that what you would say if someone was weaponizing slurs against black people

and using them against DT?

I haven't been condemning Colbert, if you noticed. I suspect he learned his lesson. I have been arguing with people who are advocating for the continuing, deliberate, weaponized use of this kind of slur.

[Orrex]

91. Obviously I will defer to the people on the front lines

Who the hell am I to tell the LGBT community what should offend them? They are in this in a way that I cannot be, so their opinions override mine 100%.

Honestly, it didn't strike me as objectionably homophobic, due to the context, the delivery, and the messenger.

Some (many?) in the LGBT community are offended, and I do not presume to question them.

Some (many?) in the LGBT community are delighted, and I do not presume to question them.

[Bohunk68]

107. Pretty much my take on it as well.

I mean, what's wrong with sucking another man's dick? Been doing it for decades. I have been calling DT, Herr Putinfluffer for months. Some would for sure call that homophobic. Oh, well. I have seen a lot worse over the years in these forums.

[Orrex]

110. It's an interesting rock on which to take a stand, to be sure

As I mentioned elsewhere, Bill Maher has said many things far worse than this, yet for some reason he's given a pass and is still widely (and routinely) praised on DU.

The typical rationalization is that Maher is "just a comedian," so we have to accept that he sometimes says offensive things (or, in Maher's case, that he frequently holds abhorrent personal views). But Colbert, despite being "just a comedian" is taken to task for it.

I can say only that I don't feel that I have any authority to declare the joke offensive or inoffensive, so I will follow the lead of my brothers and sisters in the LGBT community.

[Bohunk68]

123. Those of us in the community are not on one page on this as well.

There are those who have to have their outrage, and then there are those who say, BFD. No one speaks for all of us. Nor, should they.

[Orrex]

132. I agree completely!

To the extent that I can discern, the reaction of the LGBT community is more or less as varied as that of the population as a whole, with reactions running the full range from horrified outrage to delighted laughter.

[Gravitycollapse]

125. I'm bi and I say it was. Want to fight about it?

Thankfully, You are not the arbiter of what is or is not homophobic.

[Caliman73]

56. True. We need to be more creative with our insults.

I remember using the word "cocksucker" as an insult when I was a teenager. As I matured, I realized that the insult was predicated on the idea that the act is demeaning and reserved for gay men and for women. Then I realized, for men that is a pleasurable activity in which their partner (man or woman) is giving to them.

I am guessing that Colbert was thinking that in using that as a slur, he was pointing out that Trump was being subservient to Putin, but you are completely correct that the implication is that the act of fellatio is somehow "beneath" other sexual acts and that people who perform it are lesser than those who it is performed on.

I think that it can be difficult to eliminate insults that we grew up hearing. Things like the aforementioned "cocksucker" or "retard", "that's gay", "you run/hit/throw... like a girl", are all insults that demean people by comparing them with completely normal people that are considered "inferior" in some way. We have to become more creative in how we criticize and insult each other. It should not be at the expense of women, gay people, and disabled people.

[NunnesBuznat]

85. Has someone actually called you a cock-holster? I've never even heard that.

I don't see what homosexuality has to do with cocks in orifices frankly. If two people love each other, they give each other oral. It's a very deeply symbolic act. But when one of them has no respect to the partner, they'll treat the person like a holster for their genitalia. It'd the same as a joke that Madam Putin is forcing Trump to give her cunnilingus, and Trump happily accepts and forgives.
Seriously, Trump and Putin are not "men", they are "figures". Like a birch tree blowing a skunk. It's symbolism for how much the birch tree loves the skunk, and how much of an asshole the skunk is not to blow the birch tree back.

Frankly, it's rather homophobic how you associate gay men with being forced into oral sex.
And don't even get me started on transphobic because men are not the only people who have dicks to be sucked.
You're also being offensive to women for implying that they do not suck dick, and the metaphor does not apply to them.

[Behind the Aegis]

89. Congrats!

Your post is the most absurd and ridiculous one yet in regards to this subject, and there was some considerable competition.

Both Putin and the "president" are men, neither of whom are gay or bi. What Colbert said was akin to calling the "president" a "cocksucker!" which is an insult often used against gay and bi men. Colbert was using a common slur, but gussied up, to insult the two. Using homophobia to augment a joke does so at the expense of gay people.

The last paragraph shows how pathetic and sad your argument and position is...

Frankly, it's rather homophobic how you associate gay men with being forced into oral sex.

You are calling me homophobic for not defending a homophobic joke?! And where in the fuck, pray tell, did I say or even imply gay men are "forced" into oral sex?! That you are resorting to a strawman shows how weak your position is.

And don't even get me started on transphobic because men are not the only people who have dicks to be sucked

Now, I am transphobic too?! WOW! Where did I say only men could have dicks to be sucked? I didn't. Apparently, you also don't understand the word "transphobia" either.

You're also being offensive to women for implying that they do not suck dick, and the metaphor does not apply to them.

Pulled out all the stops, didn't ya? Now I am also sexist because I didn't mention women in a thread about a joke BY a man, ABOUT two men[]/I]!

Justify homophobia, if you must, but next time, do a better job.

[NunnesBuznat]

111. I'm showing you how easy it is to be offended by nothing.

How you see those three things is exactly how others see your grievance. Cocksucker is a general insult that is often applied to gay men, but those aren't mutually exclusive. It's an insult that becomes a slur when used on a gay person, not the other way around.
It's not using sexuality as an insult. It's using putting a penis in one's mouth as an insult. You act like it's new but people have been telling each other to suck dick since Mesopotamia. I could make a laundry list of why sucking a dick is found to be degrading, but that would be a wasted effort. The real point you need to take home is that it's symbolism. Homosexuality is the last thing in anyone's mind when they hear that. It's amazing that these jokes need dissection just because people can't comprehend metaphor. Here's the joke, translated into diplomatic language: Trump loves Vladimir Putin so much, and is so grateful, and possibly being blackmailed, that Vladimir Putin can have a permanent resting place for his genitalia inside Trump's mouth. It's not sexual, Donald Trump is like a piece of underwear. And he's happy to perform this duty outside the realm of his general feelings regarding other penises, because he is unwavering in loyalty to Vladimir Putin.
But that isn't a good use of time, now is it?

Anyways your logic is backwards, understandable if someone is facing the term from the perspective of their own sexuality.

He didn't use cocksucker, and the distinction is key. Sucker is a person. Holster is an object.

[Behind the Aegis]

112. Quite the rationalization you got going.

Given your other post, I am not surprised by your further rationalization of the proper use of homophobic imagery. So now, my logic is flawed because I am gay. Where ever would I be if I didn't have someone to straightsplain' this to me. Clever.

What is really pathetic is some can't see that some jokes, or metaphors as your now framing it, can be homophobic. Pointing it out isn't the issue, but then, you already know that.

[NunnesBuznat]

116. It can't be? Gay people are logical paradigms? I don't understand what you're saying

that you're infallible because you're gay? That you speak for the millions that conform themselves under that label? That I'm denying homophobia itself because you're denying 1000s of years of dick jokes? Because you're trying to make everything into an existential issue conducive to your entire identity? Seriously, not everything is a battle. Putting a dick in your mouth isn't what being gay is about, don't try to make it like that. It's offensive that somebody says "cock-holster" and you think of gay people. I don't know whether it's self-deprecation or what, but it's just counter-productive.

ps:I'm not straight anyways.

[Behind the Aegis]

117. Wow!

You really are digging in your straw heels, aren't you?

Your rationalization has gone from comic to pathetically sad, and it explains your logical fallacies which are the heart of your argument.

PS: Right.

[pnwmom]

131. The description was of 2 MEN, with one the "cock-holster." That's what makes the listener think

of gay people.

[pnwmom]

130. Using the term "cocksucker" or other gay slurs as a general insult is as offensive as

using the word "gay" to refer to anything the speaker doesn't like -- i.e., "that's so gay."

The fact that homophobic slurs have been used for ages doesn't make using them all right.

[Straw Man]

138. Agreed.

The implication is clear: The act is being characterized as degrading to the person performing it.

[m-lekktor]

96. yes, I am just a cock holster as well. nt

[jeanmarc]

14. Limbaugh gets a free pass as an entertainer

Colbert is actually an entertainer, and that's baaaaaaaaad.

Fuck these people. Keep going there, Colbert.

[pansypoo53219]

15. lighten up, francis.

[malaise]

20. The current President was all over network and cable TV accusing the

former President of not being an American citizen without a shred of proof and demanding his university credentials.

Fuck that fucking fuck. Go Stephen!

[Rhiannon12866]

21. You make a good point.

When comedians skewer Trump, the inevitable outrage makes the news more often than the outrageous and despicable things Trump says and does - seems like every day. It's become "the new normal."

[malaise]

26. Well said

[pnwmom]

94. No one here is arguing that it isn't right and good to insult DT.

But it isn't necessary to dehumanize gay people in order to do it. And that's what's happening when we use gay slurs. We are USING them. We are using the thought of gay sex as an insult.

[amuse bouche]

24. I was thrilled that he did not apoloigize

[Turbineguy]

27. How many trump voters will lose

their healthcare because of that comment?

[Gothmog]

28. I stand with Stephen Colbert

[Sunlei]

30. Republican party enabled trump. $ome Republicans joined in-helped Putin RAPE our democracy.

[dsc]

31. that headline is actually false he didn't defend that joke

He specifically stated he went too far with it. I also have to say, it is homophobia. I was called a cock sucker many times. I know why I was called one. He shouldn't be fired, but it was homophobia and it is borderline delusional to claim it wasn't.

[pnwmom]

95. You're right - he's not defending this. i think he learned something,

unlike some of the posters here. I'm kind of shocked by how stubbornly they are insisting on their right to use homophobic slurs, as long as everyone hates the target.

[GoCubsGo]

32. I was a bit surprised by that joke.

But, not surprised that the same people who consider Comrade Trump's "pussy grabber" comment to be "locker room humor", are okay with that, but OUTRAGED!!!!! OUTRAGED, I TELL YOU!!!!!! by this. Fuck 'em. Bunch of hypocritical snowflakes.

[Saviolo]

33. Seems I'm destined to jump into all of these threads

This might be a long one.

I'm a gay man, and I found Stephen Colbert's joke hilarious in the context of the monologue that he had it.

Do I think he should lose his job? No.
Do I think the RWNJs that are calling for his firing care about LGBTQ people? No.
Do I think Stephen Colbert is homophobic? No.
Do I think the RWNJs that are calling him homophobic will go right back to being homophobic when this is done? Yes.
Do I count Stephen Colbert among LGBT allies? Yes.

Was the joke itself homophobic? Yes.

I'm sorry, but it is. Look, there are no perfect allies, and I'm not going to knock Stephen Colbert for taking a cheap shot at Trump and Putin's toxic "alpha male" masculinity. They deserved to be mocked, and they deserve to be upset. But to be an ally, you've got to listen to the people you're allying with. Of course the media framed it exactly the way the deplorables wanted: "Should Colbert Apologize? Is he homophobic?" As far as I'm concerned, no and no.

The MAGA boys don't give one hot goddamn about LBGTQ people. They pretend they are, very briefly, from time to time, for rhetorical flourish. During the election campaign they told us that Trump was REALLY the LGBTQ candidate because Hillary took money from Saudi Arabia and they kill queers there! Throw'em off of buildings! Also, Trump held a gay flag (upside down) for a few seconds, so he's totally gonna help the queers!

Well, he's already sold LGBTQ people up the river twice, and we knew he was going to. By and large, we're not stupid, and we know that the republican party doesn't care about LGBTQ people, and in many cases are actively antagonistic. Young trans kids are being beat up for using the wrong bathroom, and that gross meme came right from the top. Peter Thiel, Milo Yiannopoulos, and Caitlyn Jenner all stood up with Trump (and other Republicans), but the administration sold them all out the minute they didn't need them any more. They were the pet queers that they could trot out on stage and pretend to say, "Look, we're totally on your side! Some of my best friends are gay!" but I will put money on the fact that in private, Ted Cruz calls Caitlyn Jenner "he."

So, there's a context here, and the Democratic party isn't really in danger of losing a whole lot of LGBTQ votes over Colbert's comment, or Boing Boing spreading around that image of Putin in drag makeup:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028905824
Or the picture of Trump and Putin cuddling on a rainbow unicorn. Or a the billboard of Trump and Putin kissing across from the RNC. You see how there's a pattern here?

The joke isn't "attacking" gay people, but what it is doing is attaching gay imagery (or queer/trans imagery in the case of the drag photo) to men who are literally attacking the LGBTQ community. Putin more directly than Trump, but both of them. Gay men in Chechnya are being rounded up and put in camps and mothers are being told to kill their gay children so the government doesn't have to. Obviously Trump and Putin aren't closeted homosexuals, and obviously it would infuriate them to be associated with queer imagery. But what is the end result of this?

We're not going to win the next election making "LOL! Gay!" jokes at Trump. In fact, if it infuriates him enough, maybe he'll decide that it's time to revisit the gay marriage ruling, or bathroom laws, or trans protections (such as they are), or reinstate laws that we've had scant 30 years ago that "sexual divergence" is something for which you can be denied immigration or refugee status. There are still states in the USA where you can be fired or denied housing for being gay or trans. And Putin is rounding the queers up in Russia! Do you think a few gay jokes are going to make him soften his stance? It's more likely to cause him to expand his concentration camps if you make him furious enough.

(short digression about the Putin in drag image: In the context from which it arose in Russia it makes a lot more sense. Gay/trans people were using it there to stand up for themselves in one of the only ways they could, and in that context, it makes far more sense, but spreading it around on Twitter and Facebook in North America strips most of that context away)

So, listen, I understand the context. And as I've said over and over, I don't think Colbert should lose his job or apologize, necessarily. The media also doesn't need to frame this argument in favour of the MAGA set who want to sew division and get Colbert labeled a homophobe. He's an ally, and I for one want to keep him as an ally.

But there are no perfect allies. And the only thing I really want from any ally to any marginalized group is for them to listen and learn from that group, and speak with them, not for them.

What I would love my allies here on DU to learn is that when you make images of Trump and Putin kissing as a way to enrage and mock them, you are taking a scene of normal gay intimacy, something sweet and special to us, and using it to shame. You're showing people that it's funny that they could be gay and kissing and having all that gay sex. I've seen a lot of people saying, "Oh, it's more about dominance than being gay!" which to me sounds like every teenager ever after being caught saying, "That's so gay!" responding with, "But, like, I don't mean homosexual, I just mean gay as in bad." It sounds to me like every "ally" I had in high school in the 90's who would put their arm around my shoulder and say, "You're okay, man. I don't want to make fun of you, but THAT GUY OVER THERE IS A FAGGOT! LOLOLOL!!!"

I know it's not going to end overnight. In fact, it's probably not going to end at all. It's too easy and juicy a target. Just, as allies, please listen when LGBTQ people say, every time you make a joke like that out loud, you push a young questioning gay boy deeper in the closet because he sees the image of two men kissing associated with shame and mockery. When you enrage the right wing with gay imagery, you get already intolerant parents of closeted kids in conservative households ranting about how they'd kill any queers they ever found on THEIR property.

So, yeah. That's a lot to unpack. If you read this far, thanks. I don't know what else to say. I lived with shame and fear in a Catholic household for years, but I was lucky that my mom decided a long time ago that her love for her kids was stronger than her love for her church's doctrine. There were a lot of tears and missteps at first, but I was one of the lucky ones. I've seen kids thrown out of homes for being gay, or beaten, or sent to one of Pence's "conversion therapy" courses.

And when, as an ally, you're making the same sort of gay jokes that the people who stand against us make, sometimes it's hard to tell who's who, y'know?

[moriah]

38. You're doing a great job IMHO of helping us allies...

... understand your point of view.

As I said in another thread, my understanding of the role of ally was to listen first. Not to mansplain, whitesplain, or straightsplain away what people who actually have lived the experience feel or tell them what they're feeling is wrong, an ovverreaction, or unimportant/irrelevant.

Which it seems has been done here.

It's almost like the South Park about Terri Schaivo. "You, you're doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.... but you, you're doing the right thing for the wrong reasons". The RW news outlets are certainly capitalizing on this for totally the wrong reasons... but they're right that we can come up with better analogies if we want to insult Trump as Putin's puppet than to make the intimacy between our allies be used as the punch line.

[Saviolo]

39. Thanks for listening and learning

I feel like I may have gone a bit overboard here, but it's a complicated and nuanced problem, and it's hard to express complexity and nuance in a short post. Thanks for reading however much of that essay you got through!

[6000eliot]

47. I'm gay and I disagree. It was a joke.

[Saviolo]

52. Then you don't disagree

Because I said several times in there that I thought the joke was funny. I'm gay, too, and I'm not up in arms about it, I just want allies to realize that jokes like that are problematic. They can be funny and problematic at the same time.

[6000eliot]

58. I have better things to worry about, such as fascists in the White House.

And I absolutely refuse to allow those fucks the right to co-opt my rights in order to beat up someone I consider to be an ally.

[pnwmom]

92. The fact that you weren't personally hurt doesn't mean it wasn't a homophobic slur.

Maybe you have thick skin, or maybe you don't mind being used as a weapon against DT.

But what about the 14 year old gay boy watching Colbert, and realizing that terms involving gay sex are the ultimate insult?

Don't you think that could be hurtful to him?

[pnwmom]

90. Plus a million. And for the connection to "that's so gay' -- a phrase that "allies" also used to try

to justify.

(One of my own nieces used it once, completely unconsciously -- just because it was part of the common slang. When I gently pointed out that it was hurtful, and why, she said that she didn't mean it that way, that her best friend's brother was gay. (She didn't know about her own grandfather at the time.) But she instantly got it, and never used the expression again.

Too bad some of the adults around here aren't that smart.

[BannonsLiver]

106. Easily the most rational take on this issue so far

[Saviolo]

108. Thanks for reading it

I know it took some stamina!

[BannonsLiver]

109. You had me at "in the context".

Context. A word of critical importance when discussing this issue.

[pnwmom]

121. Did he change your mind then or did you not read his whole post? n/t

[Coventina]

34. As a part-time "cock-holster", I didn't interpret the joke as a slur.

Just giving my own interpretation here, not telling others how they should feel about it.

The way I interpreted it was that he was saying that Trump's mouth is ONLY good for being VP's cock-holster.
Everything else Trump does with his mouth is garbage.

I'm good at being a cock-holster, but I'm good at a lot of other things as well.

Trump is only good at one thing: pleasing Putin.

I think the evidence so far bears this out.

After the way Colbert celebrated the Supreme Court decision legalizing ALL marriage, it never entered my mind that he was intending to be homophobic with the joke. I think Colbert has made his position clear on his support of the LGBTQ community.

[backscatter712]

35. Oh NOW the right wing is butthurt over homophobia.

I didn't hear them speak up over Chechnya.

Hell, I'm part of the LGBTQIA community, and I ain't even mad. My reaction was .

[Mendocino]

44. All this faux RW outrage

from the a tree with a Alex Jones branch.

[SaschaHM]

45. As a gay man, I think the joke straddles the line..

Did I find the joke hilarious? Yeah.
Do I give a fuck about the RWNJ's screaming "homophobia"? No
Was the joke homophobic and would I be reacting differently had the subjects been switched? Maybe and Yep.

At it's base level, jokes like this are used to demean heterosexual men by associating them w/ a homosexual act (oral sex between 2 men) a la "That's gay". It's not a direct assault, but the intention is usually to bring someone down with the connection. Had Mike Huckabee used this line, it would not have been because of a perceived domination of one man by the other. He would have been using it as an attack on someone by way of gay men. Heck, I've seen "c*cksucker" used on DU in a similar manner.

Colbert, in my opinion, straddles that line of making a political critique on Trump/Putin while appealing to the more baser instincts of the joke for the shock value. I'm not going to sign up for twitter and start tweeting because of it, but my mind will probably go to it if another incident occurs.

[Orrex]

100. Remarkably well put.

Had Mike Huckabee used this line, it would not have been because of a perceived domination of one man by the other. He would have been using it as an attack on someone by way of gay men.

This is perhaps the most brilliant articulation of the joke that I have seen.

[WoonTars]

48. Good for him.

Pay attention, it's called a "spine"..

[Orrex]

70. This will be interesting to recall, the next time DU praises Bill Maher for his brilliance

Despite his explicit misogyny, transphobia, anti-vax madness and repeated endorsement of child rape, Bill Maher gets a pass because "he's a comedian."

[inwiththenew]

73. Really shows you how far we still have to go for the LGBT acceptance if even progressives here can't

See the problem with what was said in the context he used it.

If Colbert would have said "Trump is Putin's bitch" or some other misogynistic insult would we just laugh that off too?

[pnwmom]

78. +1000. nt

[6000eliot]

79. This thread is getting ridiculous. Who cares?

[Gravitycollapse]

126. I care. If you don't, take a seat. Let the rest of us take care of this.

[Kirkwood]

93. Good for him. It wasn't homophobic. nt

[pressbox69]

97. All hail the new late night king!

[Gothmog]

102. I stand with Stephen Colbert

[TheFrenchRazor]

115. of course not; he's a manly-man late night "comedian;" so it's all good... not. nt

[BlueStater]

127. Good.

We have an unqualified, deranged slimeball as POTUS. I'm really not concerned with being polite right now. His vile supporters wear t-shirts that say "Fuck Your Feelings". Well, fuck their feelings right back.

[jeanmarc]

128. This Mother's Day could be interesting

My Mom has not liked my facebook posts and has said I should have more respect for the President. She had zero respect for Obama. Basically, my mom needs to learn boundaries. I'm getting her no gift. I got two rude phone calls about the nonsense.

The Colbert joke is nice. Trump might be the most divisive 'President' ever. I have no idea what she sees in him, other than she watches Faux News all the time. She's braindead with a lot of the rest of my older family. I don't get how they think.

[Rhiannon12866]

129. I'm very sorry. I had similar issues with my mother.

She was a big fan of both Bushes and took to watching FOX News. And she said some pretty rough things to me because she knew I opposed the Iraq war. But then she said she liked Obama when I asked her if she had a candidate in 2008 - that was until she found out he was a Democrat. I like to think she'd be offended by Trump, but I believe she was suffering from some dementia. And then I lost my mother in 2011, so I'm dreading Mother's Day.

[jeanmarc]

140. Sorry to hear it

My mom is in pretty good shape. Won't last forever, so having a bit of a feud is okay right now. Really more pissed at my sister as my mother didn't read anything and my sister put stupid thoughts in her head.

[Catherine Vincent]

136. Hmm, that is harsh what he said

Not cool.