Scientists suspect link between cat feces, female suicide

[FarCenter]

Women infected with a parasite spread by cat feces run a higher risk of attempting suicide, suggests a study of more than 45,000 women in Denmark published in a scientific journal this week.

"We can't say with certainty that T. gondii caused the women to try to kill themselves," said Teodor Postolache of the University of Maryland medical school, senior author of the study in the Archives of General Psychiatry.

"But we did find a predictive association between the infection and suicide attempts later in life that warrants additional studies. We plan to continue our research into this possible connection."

...

"The study found that women infected with T. gondii were one-and-a-half times more likely to attempt suicide compared to those who were not infected, and the risk seemed to rise with increasing levels of the T. gondii antibodies," a summary of the findings said.

http://www.france24.com/en/20120704-scientists-suspect-link-between-cat-feces-female-suicide

[banned from Kos]

1. OR -- reclusive women who live alone with cats are suicidal?

Which could it be?

[RKP5637]

2. Could be, or something like that ... sometimes these studies don't

have good control parameters for validation.

[Booster]

55. I agree. One report said that during the life span of the average person,

they will have swallowed 8 spiders in their sleep. Now, just how in the Hell did they conduct this study? I call BS.

[RKP5637]

59. Wow! Just plain wow! Yep, a lot of BS flies around in some of these studies. Think of

all of the coffee studies. One day one study says it's going to shorten your life, all sorts of bad stuff, then another says it's good for you. It's all over the map.

As one poster was saying someplace in this thread, most of them are based on fear, and some profit from that fear.

[Booster]

68. And I think study groups get huge amounts from the gov for their studies. They have to submit

their results to the gov, but I think the guy in the spider study just made shit up cause he knew they couldn't dispute it. Not a bad gig.

[pansypoo53219]

65. more reason for me to sleep on my stomach. face in pillow.

[Uncle Joe]

75. Then you will be swallowing more mites.

[coalition_unwilling]

103. The truest illustration of 'damned if you do, damned

if you don't' I've read in quite some time

[Cerridwen]

3. Where did it say the women were 'reclusive'?

I must have missed that or perhaps you're looking at another article about this issue.

If so, could you please provide a link. Thanks.

[banned from Kos]

7. It didn't say that.

But reclusive women do hoard cats. That is a fact.

[Cerridwen]

10. Seriously? Stats? Research?

Oh, what is it reclusive men hoard? Money? Power? Fame? Women? Dogs? Horses? Bullshit? Please provide links for those pieces of "common knowledge" as well. Thanks.

[banned from Kos]

12. anecdotal -- I make no value judgement at all

http://voices.yahoo.com/pet-hoarding-crazy-cat-lady-disease-2650511.html

[Cerridwen]

14. As suspected. Anecdata and a "no judgement" judgement.

Of course you made no judgement. It's as plain as day in the link you provided.

Again, what is it that reclusive men hoard? Any more anecdata?

[banned from Kos]

17. Porn? Money? I don't know what reclusive men hoard.

It is not cats though.

[loyalsister]

20. Urine?

addicted to codeine and other painkillers, was extremely frail, wore tissue boxes as shoes, and stored his urine in jars.

http://94.236.123.156:8082/biographies/howard-hughes.html

[Cerridwen]

21. Why is that, banned?

Why is it that "common knowledge" tells us about "crazy cat ladies" but not about reclusive, "crazy", men?

Have you ever thought of that, banned? Have you ever wondered why some things are "common knowledge" and other things aren't? "A woman over 40 is more likely to be killed by terrorists than married" was another piece of "common knowledge". Any ideas why that is so?

No. I doubt you have examined our lexicon of "common knowledge". Please feel free to do so since I'm sure FarCenter doesn't mind his thread being threadjacked. At least, not based on his non-response to this piece of "women are crazy" baiting OP, so far.

[banned from Kos]

23. Reclusive men are far more violence prone of course.

But the subject was cats and women.

[Cerridwen]

27. If you say so.

I disagree. I think it is cars. But, that is nothing but a biased opinion to which I fully confess. Red cars, sports cars, 5-speed cars, cars with elevators. But, as noted, I am biased.

The subject was cats and women and you changed it to cats and "crazy cat ladies"; or...you tried to.

[get the red out]

77. Common knowledge

seems generally misogynist in nature.

I was thinking, when reading this, that I can think of many men who are cat owners and wondering why no studies had been done that included men? I am a female and a dog owner, I also got married at around age 40.

[4th law of robotics]

82. Here's one study that found 76% of hoarders were female:

http://vet.tufts.edu/hoarding/pubs/pubhlthrep.pdf

This one found about 2/3rds: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2005/07/whats_the_deal_with_cat_ladies.html

This one didn't give stats but said it is mostly found in women: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/23612118/ns/today-today_pets_and_animals/t/animal-hoarding-crazy-cat-lady-explained/

[KansDem]

79. We had one such case recently here in Kansas City

More Cats Found In Accused Hoarder's Home

Officers said they were called to search the home of Delores Metcalf in the 3700 block of North Bales after neighbors reported seeing Metcalf bring more animals there.

"It's disgusting for someone to live like that and do that to the poor animals. There's just no sense in that," said neighbor Tammy Linan.

"I know she's a hoarder. To live with animals and eat in there and sleep in there, when you have roaches and animals, it's disgusting," said neighbor Marzella Blackmon. "I'd like to see her move and put her into some kind of home where they can take care of people like that."

In August, police found nearly 150 cats in Metcalf's home. About a third of those animals were dead.

Kansas City Animal Control officers said during Tuesday's raid, they recovered 10 adult cats and six kittens from the attic. They said they also found a dead cat in the freezer.

Metcalf was not at the home during Tuesday's raid. She is currently awaiting trial on animal abuse charges from last summer's incident.

--more--
http://www.kmbc.com/More-Cats-Found-In-Accused-Hoarder-s-Home/-/11664900/12258342/-/1qg2gv/-/index.html

[snooper2]

86. Apparently Porn

[crunch60]

102. I'd like to see a link to your "that is a fact" statement. Hoarders hoard lots of stuff,

not gender specific to my knowledge.

[cthulu2016]

78. Where did it say cat have four legs?

Of course there is a positive correlation of cat ownership and reclusivity. (All those words are used to mean precisely what they mean. No more. No less.)

[Gman]

13. That would be saying about 2% of the women in Denmark

Are reclusive cat women. Highly unlikely.

[NeverEnuff]

51. Facts

They were talking about women who commit suicide not the general public. Women live longer and seem to like cats better than men.

[RebelOne]

4. OK, after reading this info, how many women are going to get rid of their cats? n/t

[Brigid]

6. Not me.

My two aren't going anywhere. And the only time I feel suicidal is when I hear about Romney's latest "clueless rich guy" gaffe.

[NNN0LHI]

39. It would be suicidal if my wife ever tried getting rid of my cat

Him and I are pretty close. He purrs me to sleep every night sleeping on my pillow.

[RKP5637]

44. Mine too. He's my 24 hour companion. He just likes to be with me. He adopted

me when he was a few weeks old when he found me when he was lost.

[ryan_cats]

89. You have beautiful animals

You have beautiful animals. Is the dog a Keyshawn (sp??)?

My cat purrs me to sleep as well, better than a sleeping pill.

[NNN0LHI]

100. Thank you

Frosty the Keeshond pronounced kayz-hond, really was a beautiful and good dog. Unfortunately he passed away about 2 years ago.

We still have his sister though but she is beginning to slow down now. Here she is:



The cats name is Marius and is older than Frosty would be now and is still going strong.

Thanks again and take care.

Don

[Turbineguy]

5. OK....

Let's sent Rush Limbaugh some estrogen disguised as Viagra and give him a pet kitty-cat.

[HockeyMom]

8. I've been changing cat litter for 50 years,

even when I was pregnant or nursing. Nothing. Me or my kids. However, all my cats over the years were INDOOR cats and I fed them healthy diets, and scooped/changed their pans regularly.

"Science" can take a hike as far as I am concerned. EVERYTHING is bad for you because they want to scare you so you spend your MONEY on every ailment they say you are going to get.Take RUN to a doctor with the slightest "problem". There is a pill that you cure you. Make me think of that old Stones song, "Mother's Little Helper." The USA Today.

Ask people who are 90+ years old how many times they have been to doctors, or followed their "advice".

[raccoon]

18. You ought to start a thread with this. nt

[japple]

19. You are absolutely right, HockeyMom. Wonder who is funding this research? I

didn't even bother to read the "article" because it had fear all over it.

If you are not having medical issues, there is no reason to see a doctor. If you see a doctor, they will find something wrong with you, put you on prescription drugs and keep you coming back for lab work, checkups, tinkering with your medications, etc. Then you will spend the rest of your life wondering "what is wrong with me?"

I am not going to get rid of my 4 cats and 1 dog either. I got rid of my satellite dish and that's the best thing I've ever done.

[dionysus]

38. "If you are not having medical issues, there is no reason to see a doctor" sorry, but

that's a very ignorant statement.

[japple]

49. Well, opinions are like assholes...

[HockeyMom]

53. Learn to listen to your own body

It will tell you when something is VERY WRONG. Trust in nature and natural healing. We don't need to run to a doctor for every little ache and pain. I am 63 years old. By what medical science says, I should have been dead a very long time ago, if I listened to everything they say.

[RKP5637]

61. Yep! Just listening to the pharmaceutical advertising on TV is just

about enough to make one a hypochondriac, you hear of things you wouldn't even dream about in your worst nightmare.

[dionysus]

71. the point is you could have serious medical issue like diabetes and high blood pressure and not have

any symptoms.

[Bryn]

25. 1000+

Same here! Thanks for your post

[CreekDog]

57. Then log off DU if you don't like "science"...science

or did you forget how you are connected to it?

[Logical]

62. I assume you know your experience means nothing. Some smokers live till they are 100....

dies that mean smoking is safe also? Wow.

[4th law of robotics]

84. My grandma smoked for 70 years

died of something entirely unrelated to tobacco use.

I'm going to start handing out cigarettes instead of candy on Halloween.

Suck it science! Anecdotes trump data.

[Odin2005]

9. Correlation, Causation, and all that...

...It's quite possible that the stereotypical "crazy cat lady" has tendencies for depression.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

11. Hey, the litter box stinks but it's not THAT bad.

[kestrel91316]

15. The vast majority of cases of Toxoplasma in the US are unrelated to cat contact,

and arise out of consumption of incompletely cooked meat.

But the media conveniently overlooks this readily available fact time and time again.

[japple]

50. Hi kestrel. Do you have a link? I have a friend whose daugher has toxoplasmosis

and there have never been any pets in their household. The friend thinks that her daughter might have contracted it when she was at a friend's house where there were inside pets (one dog). I told her it was just as likely that her daughter got it from being in contact with wild birds, birdshit on a park bench, etc., but she seemed skeptical.

[kestrel91316]

64. Didn't get it from the dog, period. They are not definitive hosts and cannot

shed infective oocysts.

Didn't get it from wild birds or their poop. They have nothing to do with Toxo.

Cat poop in the garden outside is a common source, but like I said, incompletely cooked meat is more likely than anything.

For the record, I am a veterinarian, have a cat practice, have a special interest in zoonotic diseases (Toxo is the biggie in cats), and also have a degree in microbiology. I will hunt for a link and edit this post. But this topic is one that is not just professional interest - I have a duty to know this stuff.

ETA: Here's CDC's page on the epidemiology of Toxo.
http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/toxoplasmosis/epi.html

I don't have a link for the article that showed how there was no statistical link between cats and humans with positive Toxo titers, but I know this has been researched well and published and it's common knowledge in the zoonosis community. Maybe I saw it at Worms & Germs blog.

[japple]

70. Thank you, Kestrel, for the link. I will pass it

along to my friend.

[FarCenter]

73. What the paper actually says. Not as sensational as the reportage.

Felids have been identified as definitive hosts of T gondii, with the parasite multiplying sexually in the cats' gut and spreading oocysts. Humans are infected by ingestion of oocysts spread from feces of infected cats (eg, contaminated sandbox and ingestion of unwashed vegetables), eating undercooked meat infested with T gondii cysts, using knives used to cut infested meat to further cut vegetables, and, occasionally, drinking water from a contaminated water source. The ingestion of the parasite by various intermediate hosts, including humans, leads to the spread of the organism from the intestine to organs, predominantly muscles and the brain. There, under pressure from the immune system, the parasite hides within neurons and glial cells, in cystic structures, with minimal exposure to mediators of the immune system that succeed to contain but cannot eradicate it.

http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1206779

Do you know an estimate of what percent of cats host T gondii?

[kestrel91316]

74. That's going to be largely a matter of whether or not a cat has ever caught and eaten prey that

is a secondary host of Toxo (rats, mice, some birds) or been fed incompletely cooked meat.

I always assume cats COULD harbor it when advising clients how to avoid picking it up. But it's good to remember that cats generally only shed Toxo when first infected, maybe for a couple of weeks. Then they "have" it, but don't spread it.

ETA: My suburban indoor cat patients are pretty unlikely to "have" Toxo, and extraordinarily unlikely to be shedding it at any given time.

[raccoon]

16. I can't believe this isn't in the Lounge! nt

[Egalitarian Thug]

22. Kick for watching this clusterfuck unravel. n/t

[HopeHoops]

24. Cat shit's pretty gross to begin with, but it just got more gross.

[Control-Z]

28. As opposed to?

Dog shit? Human shit? Bird shit?

I'd rather clean my cats litter box than scoop up my dogs poo any day of the week.

[HopeHoops]

31. Cat farts have a half-life. Cat shit isn't much better.

As the late Carlin said, "The only thing that smells worse than cat food is cat food that's been through a cat's digestive tract."

[DBoon]

35. I see you've never owned a dog

dogs are a whole level of gross beyond cats

A good dog fart will have the local hazmat team at your door in minutes.

And did you know dogs love eating cat poop?

[HopeHoops]

37. I've owned dogs for all but six of my years. Dog farts stink, but they don't linger like cat farts.

[Control-Z]

48. My kids' are worse

than my cat's. But my little sweet kitty boy doesn't do it that often. My kids, on the other, every chance they get when they're around me. They think it's so funny when I react. I have a very sensitive nose.

[HopeHoops]

69. Kids particularly like it when you refer to it as "tooting".

[DBoon]

63. I am awaiting scientific confirmation

using a fart-o-meter and testing dogs vs. cats

[snooper2]

90. after dealing with diapers for two years I'll take hard cat shit lumps any day

LOL

Of course my wife's cat has some nasty "gotta leave the room" bowel movements

[HopeHoops]

95. Yeah, we went through three kids in cloth diapers. Youngest is 17 now.

The washer and dryer are economy models we got at Montgomery Ward in '87 and even after all of those diapers they are both STILL running fine. And the cat box has always been near the laundry area so there have been some, ahem, "choice" moments as far as smell is concerned.

[obamanut2012]

26. Sure

:right:

[man4allcats]

29. Ain't that some shit? n/t

[Arctic Dave]

30. The jokes will write themselves for this. LOL

CCL's beware.

[Cerridwen]

32. "The jokes will write themselves for this."

Especially by those whose knowledge is common and superficial.

But, hey, it's just a joke.

Imagine what would happen if female physiology was the 'norm'?

[Arctic Dave]

33. Your indignant post only make this more fun.

Thanks for your awesomeness.

[Cerridwen]

36. You are most welcome.

I'm glad I could help you make fun of "crazy" women.

Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

More crazy women for you.

[Arctic Dave]

47. LOL

You are awesome.

[lumberjack_jeff]

60. The histrionic reactions are the punchlines to aforementioned jokes. n/t

[4th law of robotics]

85. Cat hoarders tend to be female

they also tend to be crazy.

Here we have a link between insanity in women and cats.

Surely you can see the humor there.

Consider instead a medical study that found an actual correlation between below average genital size in males and above average car size.

People would get a good laugh out of it. Why? Because they hate men? Because men have no value?

Or because it kinda confirms what has been "conventional wisdom" for decades?

[Taverner]

34. Toxoplasmosis?

[RedCappedBandit]

40. I'd rather kill myself than live without my cats

But I'm a male and not sure how this is relevant. Figured I'd say it anyway. :p

[Gold Metal Flake]

41. The fish are biting today.

[lumberjack_jeff]

42. Maybe it just sucks to be a crazy cat lady. n/t

[Cerridwen]

43. Or maybe you could read post #3 and its subsequent

subthread.

Too much effort, jeff?

Or maybe, the female physiology should be the "norm" rather than the male?

Naaaaaawwwwwwwwww. We ALL know, the male is the default of "normal", right, jeff?

[lumberjack_jeff]

45. Meh. Crazy cat ladies aren't worth that much reading effort. n/t

[Cerridwen]

46. Of course not. Women, "crazy" or otherwise...

should never be given more time than their status within the Party allows them.

Thank you, so much, for saying so.

What is it the reclusive males hoard and deem important to the party?

[BuelahWitch]

67. Beer cans

http://1063thebuzz.com/tags/hoarding/

Headline:
"Man’s Beer Cans Prevent Firefighters From Saving House"

[4th law of robotics]

88. Women are overrepresnted in hoarding cases

and here are two papers looking at the difference in what they hoard and why:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2578847/

http://www.helpstartshere.org/mind-and-spirit/obsessions-and-compulsions/obsessions-and-compulsions-current-trends-compulsive-hoarding-qa.html

[Duer 157099]

52. I think I've figured it out

Trying to figure out what the T.gondii is trying to accomplish by killing women...

My hypothesis is: since it is likely the women who are cleaning out the cat box and discarding the poop down the toilet, then the T.gondii benefits when that woman dies and nobody is around to clean up the cat poop, which is how the T.gondii continues to spread. Evil little buggers.

[NeverEnuff]

54. Could it be?

Intelligent design?

[Duer 157099]

66. No, that's just an anthropomorphic tool to describe evolutionary behavior

The T.gondii doesn't actually *know* what it is doing. It does it because it works and that furthers its proliferation.

But you knew that.

[HockeyMom]

56. Only WOMEN have cats and change litter?

My husband is very attached to our cats, has changed their litter, and has CRIED his eyes out when they died over the past 40 years. Oh, no. A MAN doing that over a CAT??????

Hmm. Only women are crazy about cats/animals, not big, strong, SANE men! Yeah, right.

[LiberalLoner]

91. Same with my husband, we both

Are crazy for kitties. We have two and they get along pretty well. I don't think I could love them any more if they were my real children.

I don't think that makes me a crazy cat lady though; I think that just makes me a very perceptive person who is able to realize just how wonderful cats are.

Mark Twain was a big fan of kitties too.

[HockeyMom]

99. Many, many women have BOTH children AND cats

The cats are part of the family. My own kids used to call the cats their furry brother and sister. That is BAD? I don't think so. Growing up with animals in the household show children how to relate to the animal kingdom and treat them with love and respect.

[4th law of robotics]

92. A) more women than men own cats

B) apparently this was found to affect women, not men.

People are trying to turn this in to a gender war when it's clearly not.

If it makes you feel better prostate cancer still primarily (exclusively) affects big strong men.

/also men are disproportionately represented among those with mental disorders. Would it be sexist to point this out?

[tjwash]

58. University of Maryland?

Also in America...the NOS has done extensive research and declared that "No evidence of aquatic humanoids (mermaids) has ever been found"

Scientists in Switzerland have just isolated the Higgs Bosun.

America - providing scare tactics and fodder for future drug company profits, and disproving the existence of mythical creatures.

Rest of the world - Working with with the fundamental building blocks of reality.

/weary sigh

[FarCenter]

72. The study was done in Denmark, and three authors are from Denmark

http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1206779 is free access to the full paper.

The study could be done in Denmark because they have had complete electronic health and death records for some time.

[kestrel91316]

76. Link to all of Dr. Scott Weese's toxo posts on Worms&Germs blog:

http://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/articles/diseases/toxoplasmosis/

Toxo info sheet for laypersons (PDF): http://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/M4%20Toxoplasma%20-%20Owners.pdf

[FarCenter]

87. Thanks for the links -- I forwarded the pdf to my daughter, the vet.

[Fire Walk With Me]

80. Show of hands please! Who would prefer scientists do something else, like end global warming?

Cat litter...

[kestrel91316]

93. Well, veterinary and human epidemiologists have their niche, and

climatologists and ecologists have theirs. Not much we vets can do about global warming other than live our lives like we care about it and try to inform others.

[4th law of robotics]

81. Does it not have this effect on men?

Or are men just less likely to have cats in general?

[Duer 157099]

83. Toxoplasma infection is (potentially?) associated with birth defects

My guess is that more women are screened for the pathogen because of issues with pregnancy, and so a correlation could be found. If the same number of men were screened, perhaps they would see the same thing.

That's just a guess though.

[4th law of robotics]

96. Could be

a lot of medical studies like this are skewed because we honestly don't know since there is a huge discrepancy in seeking treatment between men and women.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

94. A "cat-hoarder" lives next door to me. Whether she is a "crazy-cat-lady" is unknown.

Quite possible though... likely, infact.

[kestrel91316]

98. "Cat hoarder" is the official name for the crazy cat lady of yore.

You know, the ones you can SMELL a mile away......

[just1voice]

97. Put 20 seconds on the clock, let Tosh.0 go to town

Plus, the graphics will be hilarious!

[crunch60]

101. More war on women! Another Bullshit study! Government grants $$$

are given to conduct these ludicrous studies. Watch out ladies, the T. gondi is coming to get ya now!