A majority of voters cast their ballots for Hillary Clinton last November, but ...

[dawg]

Last edited Sun May 14, 2017, 11:19 AM - Edit history (1)

Republicans still won the popular vote in the Congressional elections. Our "flawed" presidential candidate substantially outperformed the rest of the party in terms of the popular vote.

And since I'm talking about raw vote totals here, you can't really blame gerrymandering. That *did* put an additional damper on the total number of seats we won, but it doesn't change the fact that the Republicans got over a million more votes than us.

There were literally millions of people who voted for Hillary Clinton, and then either turned around and voted for a Republican Congressional candidate, or did not vote for one at all.

The default setting for white American voters is "Republican". We need to figure out how to peel some of these voters away from the herd without selling our souls in the process. Otherwise, we have a long wait until demographic trends finally render us ascendant. And by then, we may be well on the way to being a third-world country.

[retrowire]

1. I didn't like that statement

About the default setting for white voters is Republican.

But fuck me, whatever.

[dawg]

2. I don't like it either, but the numbers don't lie.

Since the sixties, we have only ever won the Presidency on the heels of Republican-induced disasters.

Carter won in the aftermath of Watergate.

Clinton won during a Republican recession. (It's the economy, stupid!)

Obama won during the worst financial collapse since the Great Depression.

And while Clinton and Obama were both able to win re-election through the power of incumbency, both men were punished by Republican landslides in the first mid-term Congressional elections of their Presidencies.

[LaydeeBug]

3. The lie is the machines were hacked. nt

Last edited Sun May 14, 2017, 11:28 AM - Edit history (1)

[dawg]

5. In every Congressional race in the U.S.?

That strains credulity.

I agree with you that it is possible that a few strategic hacks would have been enough to throw the electoral college. MI, WI, and PA were all incredibly close.

But I'm talking about popular vote totals in Congressional elections.

[LaydeeBug]

18. WHY does it have to be *EVERY* congressional district? Seriously.

[dawg]

19. Because my OP is about the Republican advantage in overall Congressional vote totals.

And you are talking about something else altogether.

Which is fine. You may, indeed, be right about that.

But the fact that more people voted for Republicans in Congress is a broader and more systemic problem. And that one isn't due to voter fraud.

[LaydeeBug]

20. And, still, it doesn't negate my point, which is pertinent to people getting elected

and you are enabling this shit y pretending it doesn't happen.

It doesn't have to happen everywhere for it be effective.

[dawg]

21. Okay, you're not being fair. Where did I ever argue that you are wrong about vote tampering?

I pretty much said "you may be right about that" in every reply I made to you.

But what I'm talking about is an entirely different problem. A majority of voters just tend to vote against us.

Hillary bucked the odds and won the popular vote. She may even have won the electoral college if what you allege is true - and I am OPEN to that idea.

But we've been getting our asses handed to us in Congressional, state, and local elections.

[mythology]

28. If this big dark conspiracy was capable of hacking the vote counting process

Which varies by states and counties to elect Trump, why did they forget to give themselves a filibuster proof edge in the Senate and increase their edge in the states. Vote fraud conspiracy theories are silly.

[retrowire]

4. but white people are predominantly republican? nt

[dawg]

6. Um, yes.

[retrowire]

8. Meh, I've got enough self hatred to go around. nt

[dawg]

9. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to put down white people.

But a majority of whites consistently favor the Republican party. And I see that as a problem in need of a solution.

[retrowire]

10. Agreed.

It's not that I, as a 29 yr old white male take offense to the idea because I'm not offended by facts.

It's moreso the emotion of...

"Come on guys, really? Do I really have to share the skin color of such a selfish demographic?"

Like I said, self loathing.

I'll figure it out.

[dawg]

13. Yes, but you and I are living proof that ...

it doesn't have to be that way.

And while you are right that some of it is, indeed, selfishness; I also think there are some subconscious cognitive biases at work that can be corrected.

[bettyellen]

25. You want to feel better about it? Talk to the conservative guys in your demographic....

And conversely- please don't expect women and POC to work on them too much- we know it's a waste of time.
And show up to protests and make calls- women have been doing the heavy lifting this year.

[onenote]

11. And more people voted for Clinton than for repub house candidates

Clinton: 65.85 million
Repub House: 63.17 million
Trump: 62.98 million
Democratic House: 61.78 million

[dawg]

12. Yes, so all of the Hillary vs. Bernie stuff is pointless.

The real question is why we aren't getting the votes we need for Congressional candidates. Even when we know that potential voters are already standing right there at the polls, casting a vote for Hillary, and then, I guess, just toddling off to get their sticker.

[JI7]

15. same reason midterms get low turnout

[dawg]

16. Which is why I'm not overly optimistic about 2018, but there is a chance ...

We did retake the House in 2006, after six years of W's utter incompetence.

And he's Solomon compared to the guy they've got now.

But Trump is just a symptom of a much broader sickness in the American electorate.

[JI7]

14. demographic changes seem like that's what it will take

Other than republican failures showing up in the economy like 2008 and 1992.

Even then most whites vote gop but not as strongly as when things are not so bad .

[dawg]

17. We need something quicker than that.

Across the country, they are destroying our health care system, or public schools, our parks, our infrastructure, the arts, and to a great extent, the health of our small businesses.

There is a block of voters that automatically defers to Republicans as being better for the economy, stronger on defense, and better at managing international relations. We need to find some way of permanently shattering at least one of these delusions.

By the time demographics gives us a workable majority, it may already be too late.

[anarch]

22. the Republicans are way better at getting out the vote

I absolutely agree, you can't pin it all on gerrymandering, voter suppression, Russian interference and/or blatant election fraud (although all of these things are certainly crucial factors).

There is an amazing number of voters who will vote Republican no matter what...and they vote in every election. I don't know that it's possible to peel any of these voters away. There's no point whatsoever in arguing with them. Logic doesn't work, appealing to their emotions doesn't work...any attempt to persuade them away from their position will fail, and end up with them spouting off catch phrases.

Only if they are personally negatively impacted by something that is obviously (even to them) due to Republican governance will they even consider any other alternative. And any alternative they might consider is probably some other Republican.

They are brainwashed. Among other things, I blame the elimination of fairness doctrine, the ubiquity of right wing talk radio, and the alignment of fundamentalist churches with the Republican agenda. And the Citizens United decision...campaign finance reform would go a long way toward addressing the problem (but ha, good luck with that at this point).

I'd argue the default setting for white Americans who are eligible to vote is "Apathetic." It's not the brainwashed Republican die-hard base that we need to engage, but the even more substantial population of people who are utterly disengaged from the democratic process. Vast numbers of citizens who are not otherwise disenfranchised unwittingly sabotage the whole situation by staying home on election day because they don't feel any personal responsibility for maintaining the integrity of our nation...they just don't think it matters if they vote or not. This is a problem.

[Locutusofborg]

23. Not a majority

Hillary Clinton received a plurality of the popular vote last November (48.2%). Trump received 46.1% and other candidates received 5.7%.
A majority of the white vote was not needed in order to defeat the Republican presidential candidate in 2008 or in 2012.

[aikoaiko]

24. I get your point, but I don't think you can extrapolate from national votes to district votes

A candidate can win the popular vote by disproportionate support from big states and still be weak in many other states and districts.

In the specific case of HRC, I don't think you can say she outperformed the rest of the party when she lost too.

[dawg]

27. I'm just going by the raw totals of votes cast.

Hillary got way more votes than did our Democratic Congressional candidates.

[Kablooie]

26. I agree the default setting is Republican but ...

it doesn't come from philosophies or goals of the parties.

It was spawned from pure purile propaganda.

Fox News and AM radio has been swamping the airwaves with deliberate misinformation for so many years that now much of the country takes it as fact.

It's GOP marketing that turned the country, not politics.

[dawg]

29. I think we really need to work at changing people's subconscious perception of Democrats.

There is still a widespread presumption among some groups that Republicans are better for the economy and stronger on foreign policy. People also presume them to be the more moral choice, which would be hilarious, were it not for the fact that we're all going to suffer the consequences of their cluelessness.

[Freddie]

30. Congresspeople get entrenched

In a purple district like mine, they can appear 100% reasonable and get away with it, as few people actually examine their voting record. Then there's all the personal things they do - "he helped Grandpa get his VA benefits", etc. So people who are moderates or don't follow politics closely will vote for the incumbent because "he's such a nice guy."
Case in point my GOP rep, Brian Fitzpatrick (PA-08) who is now a huge hero for voting "no" for the Deathcare bill. He's getting glowing comments on his FB page from Democrats! Even though he took a $50000 bribe to end our online privacy, his reelection is assured.

[dawg]

31. Incumbency is a powerful thing.

I think we need to work, as a party, at nationalizing the Congressional elections. Newt Gingrich had a brilliant idea back in the 90's with his "Contract With America". We should do something like that.

We should also hang Trump and Paul Ryan around every Republican Congressional candidate's neck like the rotting albatrosses they are.

[MichMary]

32. What do you mean by

"nationalizing the Congressional elections?" Does that mean that I, here in Michigan, could vote for Congressional reps in Illinois, or Arizona, or California? Don't think I've ever heard that idea before.

[dawg]

34. No. I mean presenting the voters with a unifying national theme.

I want people to show up for Congressional elections to vote for a Democratic candidate, and to do so because of what we are promising to people on a national level.

For example, if things continue to deteriorate, we could nationalize the next election over impeaching Trump. If we made it very clear that a vote for a Democrat was a vote to impeach Trump, that would give lots of people something to vote for (and against).

[cynatnite]

33. Didn't Wisconsin suppress about 200K votes?

tRump only won by 24K or so.

I blame suppressing the vote overall for what happened. Florida kicked several thousand off their rolls, I think.

Let's not ignore the massive voter suppression that's been happening all over the country, especially in swing states.

[dawg]

35. I think voter suppression is enough to account for Clinton's electoral college loss.

But we have been getting our asses handed to us in lower level elections for years. That's the reason they have the power to do the suppression in the first place. And I think we need to find a solution for why voters, white voters in particular, seem to generically support the Republicans in most instances. It seem that we only win when things have gotten so bad that everyone knows something's got to give.