You don't get rich by working hard, not in America anyway

[kpete]

According to the IRS, which recently released 2009 data from the 400 richest individual income tax returns, the real runaway growth in wealth has come from capital gains. In the last years of the bubble, the "Fortunate 400" made nearly half their income from capital gains (a.k.a.: profit from the rising value of an investment, such as stocks or property) and less than 10% of their income from old-fashioned wages. The average income of a top-400 earner grew by 650% between 1992 and 2007 to a whopping $344 million. Over that time, the average salary barely doubled. But the average capital gains haul increased by 1,200%. How do the richest get richer? Not from their wages. From their investments. ...Derek Thompson, The Atlantic

http://prairieweather.typepad.com/big_blue_stem/2012/07/you-dont-get-rich-by-working-hard-not-in-america-anyway.html

[The Magistrate]

1. As Someone Said, Ma'am, If Hard Work Makes You Rich, Every Woman In Africa Would Be a Millionaire

[dtom67]

2. The real enemy....

These people are the true parasites in our world. They create misery and human suffering throughout the world as they try to manipulate the rules to make themselves more money.

The world they are creating is unsustainable , and we cannot bail them out forever.

The most likely threat to the existence of mankind is not a rock falling from the sky, but the wealthiest of our kind and that most deadliest of sins: GREED

[SammyWinstonJack]

5. +1

[Tsiyu]

3. Nope. You get rich watching OTHER people work really hard

and by paying them crap wages and offering no benefits - like health insurance, retirement, vacation - for their efforts. Then you take the money you save treating people like slaves and pay YOURSELF millions.

It's a great system in America! Fuck yeah!

The Kings we supposedly left behind when we formed a Democratic republic only WISH they had it as good as our CEOs!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. "Hard work is good for you." Usually said by rich people who don't work.

[TBF]

6. Capital gains tax rate has been cut in half since Reagan took

office - and democratic presidents have also participated in cuts under the guise of encouraging savings. Investment (capital) gains used to be taxed the same as income, and should return to their original rates in my view. It is only making a few at the very top wealthy beyond belief.

[Scuba]

30. Only the scheduled rate. The effective rate has been cut even more.

[TBF]

35. Thanks - I'm no economist but I have read about a rate

being cut from roughly 30% to 15% ... any additional info you can provide would be great. I just know that as a result the richest amongst us are wealthier than ever and we are quickly losing our middle class.

[Scuba]

56. Yep, 15% for you and me, major loopholes for the truly wealthy.

[Wounded Bear]

7. Read this on another message board

In any well run business your top performing man is payed the most, #2 2nd most, #3 3rd most. If those ever get out of order, expect to hear about it from the employee and the managers.

It was a football message board, so about all I could do was it.

It's all part and parcel of the RW model. Work hard and you'll get rich! Yeah, sure.

[Norrin Radd]

43. Apparently, the people on that board have

never heard of or experienced stack ranking.

[FarCenter]

8. That's been true for a few millenia

Ever since guys started trading stuff in marketplaces in Mesopotamia and Egypt.

[Orrex]

9. Hell yeah

I've been trying to drive that point into the heads of several of my friends for decades, all of whom make under $40K and who insist that anyone can be a financial success with just a little more effort. They refuse to believe in an America class system, much less class warfare, despite the irrefutable evidence all around them.

I try to explain to them that this has been the way of the world for millennia, but they simply don't believe it.

The pro-wealth propaganda machine is incredibly good at convincing its victims that it doesn't exist.

[patrice]

16. The great educator Paulo Freire would say that they have internalized the oppressor, because that

makes them feel safe.

[TBF]

37. Excellent - exactly right. Freire was a very smart man. nt

[FarCenter]

18. Labor is the weakest form of wealth generation

Knowledge is stronger, e.g. knowing how much good bought wholesale in city A will sell for at retail in city B.

Property is strongest, e.g. owning a field that can be planted to wheat or owning a flock that can be pastured on some land.

[truedelphi]

63. I understand your philospophy, but owning real estate

and flocks is so Eighteenth Century. Far better to own half a dozen Senators and an assortment of congress people.

[PatSeg]

10. I am so sick of the worn out cliche

"If you work hard,...........blah, blah, blah."

Not only won't you "get rich by working hard", you might not be able to even afford food, shelter, or medical care. Working hard is a lie that the very rich tell the poor to get the most out of them.

[treestar]

77. Lucy's oldest boy

Good song. And a modern Aussie update:

[PatSeg]

78. Very powerful song

The video was amazing. Thanks!

[zoechen]

11. Feel free to stand by your fire and stir your thin gruel.

http://blog.ivman.com/recent-inventions/

All it takes is an idea...and then hard work to get the word out.

[patrice]

12. What is a good way to explain the inertia of that wealth? It's like a magnet, a black-hole, a . . .

whirlpool, like quicksand, like a tornado, . . .

People need to know more than just that it's bad. We have to figure out how to tell people WHY this situation guarantees their and their children's and their children's children's increasing slavery.

[mojowork_n]

22. Definitely, an object with it's own measurable gravity

I once saw a graphic that had annual incomes plotted out to
the size of objects in the solar system. Average annual income
was mapped to tiny, tiny moons or big rocks in the asteroid belt.

In the graphic those were just small, circular globes. but really,
really big annual incomes looked more like gas giants. So big that
if you drew them full size you'd barely even see the small moons.
So in the graphic that income level was only shown as a quarter-
wedge, the lower arc (90 degrees) of a much bigger circular object.

Another way to say or show that is to take the example of Sheldon
Adelson, the casino zillionaire who jump-started Gingrich's run in the
Republican primary with an 11 million dollar "gift," when it looked like
the Newt was going to have to drop out...

The Sheldon:



For Adelson, with an annual income of 7 Billion bucks, that 11 million
works out to less than four hours of his normal income rate. Adelson
gets 3.3 million dollars an hour. For someone making the national
median income, around 40K, it's like you or I could temporarily
"own" a presidential candidate*** with a contribution of 50 bucks.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/08/newt-gingrich-sheldon-adelson-income_n_1263249.html

*** ....Well, maybe "own" isn't the right word, but to get that presidential
candidate to say things he hadn't agreed with formerly, like "the
Palestinians aren't a nation."

[patrice]

13. We also need to figure out how to attach job happiness & satisfaction to a just wage.

People need more than just to be paid right; they also need work that fits them. We want more than just jobs; we want the RIGHT jobs.

[pnwmom]

14. It's difficult, but not impossible. Steve Jobs didn't come from money,

but he didn't do too badly for himself. Neither did many of the Microsoft people I know up here. Those early pioneers were working night and day. (I don't happen to know more recent employees there, but I'm guessing the work atmosphere is still pretty intense.)

[Norrin Radd]

45. Read the comments to this article to get a feeling

of what the atmosphere at MSFT is like, now:

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2012/07/microsoft-downfall-emails-steve-ballmer

[pnwmom]

48. Thanks for the link. My husband works at a company that uses

something similar to Microsoft's stack ranking, and it sucks -- both for the employees and even for the managers who are forced to use the system.

[Rex]

15. You get rich by stealing billions from American taxpayers

and then making them payback every cent like they did it.

[lumpy]

17. The way to get rich (whatever that is) is by dedicating your life to that pursuit.

That is if you are not one of the US aristocracy and spend your waking hours thinking about how to accumulate money.
I always think about my brother-in-law who worked hard, invested in the market, toward that goal. His family scrimped and saved, did without, passed up opportunities to enjoy life. When he was in his 60s he hit the million mark, very proud of doing it. Well, his wife was beset by ill health and his health began to deteriorate. Their kids had moved on. The opportunity to experience a happy full life had passed on.

[hfojvt]

19. unfortunately you did not prove your thesis

not even close

The example you gave, of the Fab 400, is of the 400 richEST and how they got even richER.

First, there are lots of very rich people who are still not part of the Fab 400. The cut-off to make the Fab 400 is something like $110 million in income. And only 400 people can make that list - by definition.

But in 2005 there were 13,776 tax filers with AGI greater than $10 million.

Those people are definitely rich, although only 400 of them are members of the Fab 400. There were also 21,431 filers with AGI over $5 million, and 84,070 filers with income over $2 million and 56,615 filers with income over $1.5 million and 127,925 filers with income over $1 million. Even 524,506 filers with income over $500,000. I would hope we could all agree that those people are rich. So how did they get that way? I am guessing that at least some of them got that way through hard work.

For myself, I would also include the 2,737,802 with income over $200,000 and most of the 10,810,367 people with income over $100,000. They are in the top 11% richer than almost 90% of the rest of us. I am betting that hard work and good choices had something to do with it, as well as some good luck. For example, if I had not quit my job with the Air Force back in 1986, I could be making about $80,000 a year today. As such, I would probably be married too, and have a spouse making at least 30k, putting me in that $100k+ group.

I probably would not have worked any harder on that path than I did on the path I chose, but a good choice can make a huge difference as well.

[livingonearth]

20. With all due respect,

you certainly worked hard on that post, hfojvt.

[hfojvt]

70. not really

just pulled up some numbers on a spreadsheet I have.

But why not? Is hard work a bad thing? There are certain memes that I find to be both false and annoying. The upward definition of the word "rich" is one of them. Seeming to define rich as "the Fab 400" is bound to set me off.

But I have done some work trying to get the name "Fab 400" to stick http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/123

[mojowork_n]

24. Neither have you.

You've just done the arithmetic to show that there are more "rich" people
in the U.S. than just the 400 richest.

Yay.

And you've made an argument by assertion, "I am betting that hard work and
good choices...."

But if you want to show an actual correlation between hard work and
NO income growth, how about doing the arithmetic to figure out how
many poor people there are with 2 or 3 jobs, but making less than
they used to (with no benefits or insurance) when they only had one?

Another basis for comparison might be adding up incomes and
income inequality on the one hand, and "inter-generational earnings
elasticity" on the other.

You could actually find that plotted out as a graph, on Page 52 of this
week's "Bloomberg Businessweek," in the article "Poor Forever" by
Esme E. Deprez. "....Of the 34 countries that belong to the Organization
for Economic Cooperation and Development... ....the United States has
the highest level of disparity... with the exceptions of Chile and Mexico."

Meaning -- there is a definite correlation between income inequality
and the lack of opportunity to become upwardly mobile (however hard one
works.)

[zoechen]

26. Just out of curiosity...

How do you propose to rectify the situation?

You seem to believe you have a grasp of the problem but what do you think is the resolution.

[mojowork_n]

32. Stop believing the Republican lies about the economy, for one.

The biggest lie is probably that the rich are "job creators."

...In Bangladesh, or the Dominican Republic or South Korea,
maybe.

More Selfishness isn't part of the answer:

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/2012/05/joseph-stiglitz-the-price-on-inequality

Edit to add link:

And a much lower level of institutionalized (and officially sanctioned,
by politicians from both parties) corruption would be a big help, too:

Matt Taibbi's written a lot (and quite entertainingly) on that general
topic:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-scam-wall-street-learned-from-the-mafia-20120620

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405

[Igel]

40. The claim is being understood differently.

"You don't get rich by working hard" isn't very well phrased.

It's usually, but not always, true. Some people do get work by working hard. It's just that most hard work can be done by anybody with the right muscles and pays poorly. But some people do get rich by working hard--if you understand "hard" right. I'm not sure anybody's gotten rich in the last 200 years just by digging ditches. Perhaps they dug ditches and invested; perhaps that kept body and soul together so they could do other things. Perhaps they got hurt while digging ditches and got compensated for their injuries. Or perhaps they even discovered something valuable while digging ditches. But it wasn't the ditch-digging itself that got them rich.

Statements that are "usually, but not always" true or false are difficult to work with. There's not a good causal relationship between hard work and riches.

Better put: "You don't get rich without hard work."

So not working hard usually doesn't cut it. Of course, you have to say that there's hard work other than tiring, physical labor, esp. under harsh conditions. You watch a researcher toil in front of his computer and papers, trying to get his math to work out and make heads or tails of the chemical reaction data he's looking at and, well, it's still "hard work."

Same for inventors. Even investors do a lot of hard work--not all, but many.

Yeah, you can be born rich. But then that's got "getting rich." On occasion somebody inherits money, but usually that was earned with somebody else's hard work. Even staying rich requires hard work (sometimes you can hire people to do the work for you).


What's funny in the OP, though, is the assumption that the increase in value when calculating net worth at market prices somehow came from somebody. Until it's cashed out, it's virtual wealth.

It's like the kids at a local high school where every student has to have a school-issued tablet PC. Let's assume that Pierre had a computer last year and, the day he had to return it, it was run over by a truck. It was fully covered by insurance, and he kept the stylus. Nobody wanted it. Over the summer, his stylus is worth $0. The new school year starts and he could sell that stylus for $5. There's some demand, but not a whole lot, so he holds on to it. Then, as the date when all the tablets have to be turned back in approaches, the value of the stylus goes up from $5 to $20 to $25 on the day the tablets are to be returned. His wealth has gone up 500%! But the day of tablet return he's sent to the principal's office and sits there all day. When he's released, he finds that the value of his extra stylus after tablet return is again $0. He's lost all his wealth.

Can he say somebody stole his wealth? No. Did he get his net worth of $25 from anybody? No. No money changed hands as his net worth increased; no money changed hands as his net worth plummeted.

So it was with my mother's stocks. She invested. She sat on them. The net worth went up $25k: She was ecstatic at making that much money. Then 2008 came and the net worth went down $35k, and she said she'd been robbed. She had the same stocks. Nobody had given her money, nobody had taken money from her. The valuation of her stocks changed. Period. Had she cashed out, she'd have gotten money not from workers but from other investors. Now that some of the stocks have been sold, the only people that made money off her were the people she bought her stocks from. She wants to claim that after the markets recovered that those who sold the stocks she earned "stole" money from her, but there was no guarantee the stocks would increase in value--and, in any event, she gave those sellers no money. It's those who buy the stocks at their higher value that provide the profit.

[Laelth]

65. I beg to differ.

Lots of people get rich without hard work. Exhibit A: George W. Bush.

The assurance that hard work will make you rich is a lie.

There. Can we agree on that phrasing?

-Laelth

[hfojvt]

71. burden of proof does not fall on me

just because I debunk a poorly defended assertion.

You seemed to have referenced an article that is not available online, although sorta watching Deprez on video, I found she made a puzzling statemnt.

She said "almost half of all children born into poverty today, will stay poor all their lives".

Which does not sound like the result of a study, it sounds like a prediction. How can the data possibly show that? It woud make more sense to talk about people born into poverty in the 1960s and 1950s and 1970s, and not children born into poverty today.

[pasto76]

21. I work my ass off in the most dangerous trade in construction, and we can barely pay bills

[zoechen]

23. Who's fault is that anyway? eom

[mojowork_n]

25. I guess we're not all as gifted, creative and industrious as you are. eom

[zoechen]

27. Who's fault is that anyway? eom

[mojowork_n]

28. Polly want a cracker?

[zoechen]

31. Yes please

Or maybe not, saltines don't have nearly the salt that they used to.

[mojowork_n]

33. You could always add an anchovy, or six.

Memorize this list, and only eat from the top item shown:

http://my.menshealth.com/exclusive-content/30-saltiest-foods-america

[mojowork_n]

39. The 5 Guys

...closest to me is a dud:

http://www.yelp.com/biz/five-guys-milwaukee

They've never been able to compete against the Greek gyro-and-
whatever place across the street, that provides much better food
and service.

I only ate there once, out of curiosity, and had the same experience
as the last reviewer at that link. The guy behind the counter had no
idea what was on his own menu.

[zoechen]

41. Ya I see

The market here is not really gyro oriented.

Or maybe they are and nobody has seen it.

What I do know is that if I opened up a 5 guys and the hired help did not perform they would be working for that Wendys in short order.

Quality service, a good product = customers.

We even have a 3/4 vacant mall, and that is where I would put it, sort of a starter anchor store.

[Norrin Radd]

47. Those Wendy's employees aren't paid enough to care.

[zoechen]

50. Aren't paid enough to care?

So where is a young person supposed to get started in the job market?

Seriously, if their 1% parents are not shipping them off to Harvard they are not supposed to give a dang because they are not getting payed enough.

do you countenance that?

I've got a job...whew...oh well I ain't makin enough money so the heck with it, I'll just mail it in!

Really?

You know, if I think about it your right...if I just work hard enough to not get fired I am assured to get a pay raise.

[Norrin Radd]

66. Straw man argument. No one should have to meet your opinion

of what is adequate work, particularly on slave wages that don't pay enough any longer to make rent. And it isn't only kids working those jobs. Pay people a living wage with benefits, and then they'll give a shit. I don't blame them, with customers like you.

[raccoon]

60. "they don't even try,"--broad brush, or are you just trolling? nt

[Tsiyu]

34. rofl

This thread reminds me of the country song:

"Work your fingers to the bone.

Whatt'ya get?

.
.
.


Bony fingers!"


"But, but...whose fault is THAT? Squawk!!!"

[cherokeeprogressive]

42. Know what I thought when I saw the thread title?

Squawk!!!

[zoechen]

44. Yous d00ds seem fairly smart

Care to take a cut at the question?

SQUAWK!!

[cherokeeprogressive]

52. Not sure what the question is but if it's along the lines of

Do I think it's possible for me to get ahead on the basis of my own ingenuity and hard work?

My answer is yes.

I don't subscribe to the popular meme that living a good and rewarding life is possible only for the 1% or white folk in general.

[zoechen]

54. Don't sweat it...

As far as I am concerned you got an in the field double, driving in a runner.

[Tsiyu]

57. And how's that working for you?

Let me know.

Now that I have a shot at health care, maybe I can get ahead myself.

But I've been working my ass off outside in 100+ degree heat and my 53-year-old body is saying "Just say no."

The chest pains are a little scary, to tell you the truth. Without health insurance, I have no way to know if they're serious or not. And I sure as hell am not going to pay more than my property is worth to find out.

Do I continue to go in and suffer a heart attack out in a parking lot? Or find something better?

Funny thing: my old boss pulled up last week - don't know if she wanted to talk or not. She acted like she wanted to speak to me, but I ignored her. Then she sat and watched me work - don't know if she was gloating or not. I was thinking, "Honey, I could be shoveling shit in the seventh circle of HELL and it would be better than working for a psycho like you who thows hot pans at people when she gets pissed."

Now, another place where I used to work has contacted me and wants to talk to me about a new position, so I'm going to give that a try and work on some of my own projects. Finish up work I've promised others.

But my initial point is, you can amass money and try to get ahead, but you're only one heart attack away from financial devastation when you don't have any health insurance.

"Getting rich" is dependant on far more than working hard.

[cherokeeprogressive]

58. It's working pretty good. I'm not rich but I'm happy.

In fact, I'm exactly where I want to be at this stage of my life. For what it's worth; when I didn't have medical insurance through my employer, I paid for it myself.

I'm 51. You said getting rich is dependent on far more than working hard. I'd respond by saying that waking up tomorrow is dependent on far more than getting a good night's sleep. Neither of us really gets to the point with those statements though.

The point of the thread was simply to advance the often stated (around here anyway) meme that no one gets rich by working hard. A better point was made very well elsewhere in this thread that other than those who are born into wealth, no one gets rich WITHOUT working hard.

Many good wishes for your continued health. I'm glad you now have health insurance. Hoping you never have to avail yourself of it...

Peace.

[Tsiyu]

59. Ah...but the point was getting rich, wasn't it?

Hell, you can't even pay your bills on the wages most companies are paying today. No matter how hard you work for them. Sorry, but that's just reality. Can't sugarcoat it or pull a "bootstraps" sermon. I don't know how families are making it.

In America today, you get rich by fucking other people over. It's the way our system is set up. Paying $44 million dollar bonuses to CEOs is not considered a "hardship" to a company. Paying a $10/hour minimum wage ( hell, they complain about $7.50 wages!) to hard-working employees is considered a "hardship" on megamillion dollar corps.

CEOS make some 400+ times what their workers make - the workers who actually produce the goods and render the services that pay the CEO. Workers are paid about 30% of their value to the company today.

All the cheerleaders for the status quo are part of the problem. Honestly, things will never get better with so many Calvinists accepting the way labor is beat up and cheated in this country.


And I don't have health insurance yet. In 2014 I might get some thanks to ACA.

[zoechen]

62. I'm sorry that you have not been able to move up the ladder

I mean that is what the deal is and always has been.

If your job has no upward mobility who do think is responsible for that? Me?

The 1%, or is it you?

You have been on the path to earn what you do. You can't blame anybody but yourself for that. I would explain how I got to where I am but it would just be running over the same thing thats been covered many times before.

Just stop blaming the man for your position in life, put on your big boy pants and start getting after it.

The only person you have to blame for the person you are is yourself.

[Tsiyu]

64. You are so adorable

But someone needs to inform you: there is no ladder anymore.

And I'm happy, thanks.

I own my land, my car, and no credit cards. I grow my own food, raise my own chickens (for eggs) and I don't want to be rich.

I have six kids who between them have: a law degree, a masters, a BA, one graduating next year from college who is continually making me very proud to be her mom. Another has gone to college but is an awesome musician, another has a nice nest egg to attend college when he graduates high school.

I didn't do much to help them; they did it mostly on their own. But I can't promise them that this fantasy ladder you speak of is available. It isn't.

But you're so darn cute with your preaching, sweetie, it just makes my evening!

All hail zoechen, who lives in some alternate universe!!!!

[Nye Bevan]

68. I bet your kids worked hard for those qualifications.

And I bet your kids will end up being more successful than if they were lazy and hadn't put in the hard work.

[Tsiyu]

72. I'm so amused

by the fact that there is an implication in your post ( and in other posts ) that some of us are saying "Be lazy! Don't work hard!"

Nobody is saying that here.

How many people on DU - and in the nation at large - did all the right things? Went to college, studied hard, got the degree, worked diligently at their jobs?

And then were canned, their jobs sent to India and China?

How many people wasted their lives working like dogs for companies that just dumped them when they cut into the CEOs' bonus packages? How many of them can't find jobs today paying even half their former salaries? How many are still unemployed, or working for peanuts?

One of the clients I've been working for is a corporation that has a staff that is made up of 60% temporary/part time workers. I know this because I heard the manager tell an applicant this fact outright. There are few jobs in this area, so of course they have many people applying. And they fire people constantly. I saw them fire them and then turn around and hire five more temporary/part time workers, while at the same time cutting their current staff's hours to the bone.

This corporation uses people like paper towels. There is no way to "move up the ladder." But people need to eat and pay their bills, so they sign up. And part time doesn't mean you have the freedom to get another job at this place. You are expected to be at their beck and call and the schedules are so erratic, there's no way to plan anything.

All of these workers are wonderful. The best group of folks you could meet. ( I wasn't employed by the corporation but did my work at several of their locations. ) They don't deserve to be treated the way they are treated by this company.

This is reality, and any of you trying to sell that shit sandwich on a hotdog bun by telling me it's really Nutella on brioche need to find another customer.

[SomethingFishy]

69. It's the fault of a system that awards investors more

than people who actually produce something. It's the fault of a government that trusts profiteers to regulate themselves.

There are many places the fault lies, one of them is with you. A genius who doesn't recognize that hard dangerous work deserves to be paid decent LIVING WAGES instead of shitty pay with no benefits so that the CEO can make 10 billion dollars this year instead of 7 billion dollars...

You sir, are an asshole.

[progressoid]

74. Awww...buh bye

[Little Star]

29. No you just have to be like Gates and steal Job's ideas.

[Nikia]

38. I think that this is a problem

If you are able to get a significant amount of money, say more than $100,000, it is much easier and more of a sure thing to invest in an existing business rather than go to the trouble of trying to start your own business that actually makes a needed product or provides a needed service. Of course there are people who who do get money from their families or save up so they can start a business doing what they want, but they are better off just making "smart" investments rather than starting off with 80 hour work weeks and risking all their money.

[lib2DaBone]

46. Every day.. the 1% get up.. and figure out a way to rip off the 99%.....

It's hard work.. but the 99% own the Congress and Senate and they control all media. They live by the "Golden Rule". So it is very easy for them.

"He who has the Gold makes the rules."

[Nye Bevan]

49. Some people bust their asses building a business and become multimillionaires.

Some people bust their ass and don't become rich.

There is quite a bit of luck involved in the equation, along with how hard you work.

But you're probably more likely to become rich if you bust your ass than if you sit on your ass. Note that I said "more likely", I didn't say it was guaranteed.

[limpyhobbler]

51. duh. k/r. nt

[notadmblnd]

53. more like from insider trading

not simply investng.

[crimson77]

55. Why Put all of us in the same box?

I made quite a few thousand off of a few hundred a couple of years ago. That money, that I invested was from working a second job that I didn't have to take. I just didnt want to scrape by. So why punish me again when all I did was invest wisely?

[Initech]

61. We could start by throwing a few of the top "earners" in jail for their crimes.

[peacebird]

67. At the tail end of yet another over 60 hour workweek (for 40 hrs pay) i can only say - "no, really?"

<sarcasm>

[a la izquierda]

73. I worked really hard...

To get my PhD, and I'm in a ton of debt as a result. Won't ever get rich...

[raouldukelives]

75. Those were the old days.

When people, at least here in America in my small slice, seemed to care as much about their neighbors well-being as themselves. When it felt like more of an "all for one" atmosphere.
Now it's all about the wealth, keeping up appearances, vanity & greed in full effect. I've got mine and now I want yours.
Back then you could teach kids things like "work hard" or "knowledge is key" or "Don't shit where you eat" and they'd probably turn out pretty well.
To raise a successful person in today's America you must teach them not to feel empathy. That just gets in the way of creating profits. No matter if its investments in third world slave labor, flying drones for Uncle Sam or targeting the least among us for budget cuts. Caring about the plight of another is a horrible thing to saddle a hopeful young American with. That is, if you want them to be successful. Teach them to feel no mercy. Teach them to covet. Teach them to hate & to kill without remorse. Pretty soon you might just have another prominent businessman on your hands.

[Throd]

76. My experience has been that working hard pays better dividends than not working hard.

But what you are working at makes a huge difference.