Can we have a chat about the left's fake news?

[welivetotreadonkings]

I'm not trying to start arguments here, and forgive me if I'm coming off as a jerk, but can we have an honest discussion about posting from sites like the Palmer Report, Patribotics, and other similar blogs? I've lurked here for years, but I'll admit I am pretty new to posting, so perhaps this isn't my place to bring it up. That being said, I think we're better than this. We were all rightfully pissed at the fake news leading up to the election--Hillary was an alcoholic or mentally/physically disabled, Seth Rich, Comet Ping Pong, etc. I'm not saying it's as bad on our side (it isn't, not by a long shot), but it just seems counterproductive to me. Sure, their articles may have some kernels of truth in them, but you could say the same about the right wing fake news (i.e., John Podesta hosted a spirit cooking, so that proved to the crazies that Hillary was a witch). I saw a couple of posters say they liked reading Mensch as if she were writing fan fiction, so perhaps her posts should be posted in the "Fiction" group? I'll admit that, in a weird way, I actually kind of like reading Louise Mensch, but I don't believe in the majority of what she writes. I understand why people read her--we want quick answers, we want these sociopaths out of the White House. I get it: this still doesn't feel real, and we're just hurtling on in this terrible, chaotic nightmare. But this isn't going to help, we need to exchange and discuss accurate information and articles in order to understand what's going on in the world. Again, I'm not trying to be cruel here, just wanting to open up some self-examination and productive discussion.

[lillypaddle]

1. So far

Most of what I've read from Bill Palmer has been right on the money. Read lots of criticism of RawStory, but again, what I have read from them has been mostly proven out to be true. People can make their own decisions. This is the internet, everything should be taken with a grain of salt. YMMV

[lillypaddle]

13. Is your post directed at me?

or the OP?

[mhw]

22. Thanks..

The OP.
Re-posted to the OP.

Who would discredit another for calling out Trump's part in the coup of America & why?

[mythology]

38. Because using sources that are highly questionable isn't good process.

The enemy of my enemy isn't always my friend. Sometimes they are somebody looking to scam you or get attention.

[mhw]

41. Who are these highly questionable sources?

How would we know of they're highly questionable? Does he reveal who they are?
Probably not since no one includingbthe biggest WPonreveals their sources.
So how is it you believe his are highly questionable?

[LeftInTX]

23. RawStory isn't fake news

They cut and paste MSM media news...

Sometimes reframe it.

It is not fake.

I've not read the Palmer Report or Louise Mensch's blog

[Bradical79]

25. Right. It's clickbait news

Usually reframing a few thing, particularly headlines, to get people to click. The news itself isn't theirs though. It's sometines a poor source, so you need to look at the actual source to see if it's a quality story or report.

[mhw]

44. So? They move the message. Every site that has ads or offers to donate. Are they clickbaite then.??

He's not making it up, just moving the messge that Trump is a horror for America.

Why so concerned about one small iindy site owner who spends his time moving the message of anti-Trump?

Moving the message is what a lot of sites do.
We do it here also.
Copy, paste..opinion, discuss & link to where we brought the message.

Why the singling out of one guy on a site that posts the same thing we talk about here on DU?

No one HAS to read or visit his site, nor read when its posted & linked here.

We are free to move on to another thread or ignore it completely.

I'd welcome all anti-trump sites & really wonder why the call for censorship on a site that pretty much agrees with the topic of his site, the Palmer Report.

Some here do read it, but no one is forced to.

Kindly respect those that do however.

Why censor & discredit an anti Trump site?

I keep asking that question & then. ...chirp


You know who else uses the term "Left Fake News" ???

Yup.
We've heard that used before.

[Bradical79]

45. You're reading way too much into what I said

It is what it is.

[Kingofalldems]

2. No.

[denbot]

3. Yeah, this place is just like the Drudge Report, right buddy?

Enjoy your stay.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

4. Louise Mensch is a conservative.

[mhw]

8. Yes. In the UK.

Its not the same as the dirty word here in the US.

[pnwmom]

11. She's a "conservative" who believes in equal pay for women

and a national, universal health system, among other things.

Her version of conservative is nothing most conservatives here.

[Bradical79]

28. Right, she has some very good qualities

Though she can get a bit off her rocker regarding Russia. Her understandable dislike of Russia turns into irrational paranoia rather than letting the facts dictate what she writes like an actual journalist should. Unsubstantiated claims of false flage terrorist attacks, calls for President Obama to bomb Russia, and claims of Breitbart's death being a Russian assasination aren't helpful and distract from the real conspiracy.

[Wounded Bear]

29. European conservatives are a bit of a different bird than here in the states...

think Schwarzenegger, who was a Repub, yes, but not an extremist like what the current Repub party has become.

European conserves often have more in common with American Dems than Repubs, especially on social issues. They are dealing with their own versions of extreme rightists and neo-Nazis. Even so, they are mostly smart enough to be very careful about attacking the social safety net and tend to focus on the old standbys, racism and xenophobia.

[mhw]

5. How do you decide what's "left fake news"? What qualifies you to decide?

Just wondering.

[Awsi Dooger]

7. Reminds me of the right's attempts at humor

Somehow they never stop in midstream and realize it's laughable, but not in the way they intended

[leftstreet]

9. The 'left' news you're talking about isn't counterfeit news

It's speculative, often unsourced and sometimes based on connecting dots. I don't see anything wrong with it.

This is 'fake' news:

[get the red out]

10. I understand being careful

But true or false, these sources put out stories that are plausible. Much different from what the right is burying itself in. I just wouldn't want DU to go into policing stories. Certainly it is appropriate to question sources in the thread.

[pnwmom]

12. It's better to allow posts from those sites so we can hash the details out here.

Why shouldn't people here be able to debate what is or isn't likely to be true on non MSM sites?

It's not as if the MSM never publishes false information from anonymous government sources. How many MSM reports did we see asserting that there was NO ongoing FBI investigation of Russia/Trump? And then Comey went to the Senate Hearing and blew all those reports out of the water.

[Squinch]

14. LOL! In the last "Wagging chastising finger at DU" thread, I said that I had seen four chastising

threads so far this morning. This makes 5. All from new folks.

If you don't like threads using those sources, don't read them.

[mythology]

39. Does the same not apply to you about not reading threads that discuss why Mensch isn't a good source

[Squinch]

40. It makes me a brand new poster telling DU how to behave? OK. If you say so.

[Demsrule86]

15. Nope...we can't...welcome to DU.

[canetoad]

16. Can't we just point out inaccurate reporting

Without going the full emo each time?

[oberliner]

17. Everything on "The Palmer Report" is garbage click-bait

He takes other people's writings (sometimes credited, sometimes not), strings them together, adds a few of his own ramblings and slaps on a click bait headline - then asks for money.

[mhw]

18. They all ask for donations in some way, some EVEN MAKE US SUBSCRIBE ..

Last edited Sat Jun 3, 2017, 10:01 AM - Edit history (1)

...right after they get our attention with a Headline of the Late Breaking Bombshell.

Every blog site recirculates news. Some add opinion about that news.
Some ask for donations to keep their busines alive
Some use ads to pay for their site.

Why the hate towards one small indy blogger who follows the same format for running a site as any other does?


Speaking of clickbait & opinions..

FAKE LEFT NEWS !!!
FAKE LEFT NEWS !!!

Better luck next time

[oberliner]

19. That's true

You identify Palmer Report as a "blog site". If people were clear on understanding that that's what it is, rather than mistaking it for an actual news site, then I think that would be a positive development. The articles found there are akin to people posting their thoughts and conjecture about the news on DU.

[mhw]

20. No. Palmer Report is discredited for using the same methods as most other blog sites.

Why would anyone discredit a site for gathering & printing the same truth about the abhorrent saga of the Trump admin as others do.

Its a blogsite that clearly links to sites that are often posted here as "legitiimate news sites".

What's the problem?
He's not promoting trump is he?

Makes me wonder??

[oberliner]

34. I think it masquerades as a news site

And I'm really not a fan of the headlines it uses - they are usually BS.

There are other things that can hurt the cause besides promoting Trump.

[mhw]

35. Your opinion.

How often do you read The Palmer Report to make this judgement?
Why would anyone ask to censor an indy web site that moves the message against Trump?
I see no list on DU of sites we can only link & post from, in calling out the disaster America faces with Trump.

Whatever the personal position is that drives some to discredit Palmer & other indy sites, that indeed have credibility, & yes they do or we wouldn't bother with them, because we readers are not too stupid & gullible to notice the difference,..is still a mystery.

Your opinion is just that.
You're entitled to not read nor respond to those small indy sites when ref'd here.

Censoring & discrediting an anti Trump site?
That's the part I will always question..why?

Now its called "Fake Left News" ??
Discredit to get it Censored. And now its even been given a name.

You know who else uses that term?

Yup.

[oberliner]

36. Fair enough

I've read Palmer Report a fair amount before I reached my conclusion about it. I personally don't think it should be treated as a legitimate news source here, but you are correct that it is just my opinion, others are welcome to disagree. I think I am entitled to point out my feelings on the site when someone posts an article from there. I think the reasons to discredit it are legitimate ones. Much of what is posted as fact is speculative, at best. In my view, promoting an anti-Trump website that is as dubious as the Palmer Report does more to hurt the anti-Trump cause than to help it.

That's my take on it - I respect that you disagree with my assessment.

[mhw]

21. Palmer also provides links to support his postings.

Palmer is entitled to manage his site & people are entitled to read it.
I & many others agree with what he reports.

I find your post rather insulting & condescending.
I'm intelligent & mature enough to decide what is right & what is not.

Might be best for me to just ignore further postings form you. Sorry.but your post really is not fair nor respectful to others on DU.
'Ignore' is best in this case.

Its a welcome feature of DU as well as the hide feature.
Use it to keep from ever seeing another post with the word Louise Mensch in it.

"Fake Left News"? Are you serious?

Bye.

[Mr. Ected]

24. I would be much more concerned if our Congressmen or our President quoted them as sources

Of their information and acted solely based on their reporting.

You know, like the other guys do.

That would bother me immensely.

Or if all of us watched and listened, mesmerized, for day after day, to television and radio reports based on lies, innuendo, and fake news.

You know, like the other guys do.

That would bother me immensely.

Or if all of us were being admonished by anonymous new posters that we shouldn't even offer up for discussion the information being parsed by the likes of the Palmer Report, Louise Mensch, or Claude Taylor, right here on Democratic Underground.

That would bother me immensely.

[emulatorloo]

26. Welcome to DU. In 2016, DU was full of uncritical links to Russia Today and Fox News.

Wish you had been around then.

[hatrack]

27. Gosh, this is only about the 75,681st post on this very topic by low-count posters!

I'll be SURE to bookmark this one!!!

[billh58]

31. Thank you so much for your

concern, and we will certainly take it under consideration. Using the term "fake news" sounds so familiar...

[Bernardo de La Paz]

32. Difference betw fake news and what you are mistaking for "fake" left news:

Fake news reports made up stuff as if it were fact, without proper cautionary advisements.

Louise Mensch writes carefully with lots of cautions. Her reports are clear about what is fact and what is probability. If she writes "probably" or "almost certainly", she is warning you that it is not fact. When she depends on sources she can't name, she is clear that her sources require anonymity in that report.

Do not make FALSE EQUIVALENCY between totally fabricated stuff like the Comet Ping Pong basement and anonymously sourced Intelligence Community reports. There is no equivalency. Zero. Zip. Zilch.

Alex Jones has not made a bona fide scoop of any significance. Mensch has scooped at least once, in 2016 re FISA warrants. In time we may discover that she has scooped on other reports too.

[Thomas Hurt]

33. (rolls eyes) There is no left or right "fake news"...

"fake news" is a fat fascist 45 term for anything from the media he doesn't like. It does not have to be false. It can be developing news, it just has to offend him. The news can say clearly that it is unconfirmed or it from anonymous sources and the fat fascist will complain about that even when the news is being upfront about the sources.

Unfortunately, we, myself included, use it describe something else which also has nothing to do with truth.

News is not about truth. News is about reporting what others claim is truth, or rumor, wishful thinking, lies, etc.

People are free to believe it or deny it. Other news providers can get the same information and it is their news and sometimes makes the news more believable. You get the idea.

This is how it works in a country free press. We are free to have the enquirer and breitbart and mensch but we don't have to believe them.

What is scary is that the fat a-hole in the WH.......wants to be the only person who gets to say what is true news. He wants us to only listen to his version of truth and subserviently toe that line.

[Quixote1818]

37. We have this chat about three times a week.

I was responsible for staring a chat several weeks ago myself.

[Mr. Ected]

42. I'm tired of this chat

I would rather talk about the veracity of the reports that are cited. That's what DU is for. We all have our own personal bullshit meters, and no one here seems too bashful to say when theirs has been triggered.

Perhaps these warnings need to be given to those whose entire belief system is founded on alternative information aka propaganda. Those folks don't come around here very often...except maybe to tell us to quit reading the left's fake news.

[retrowire]

43. WALLLLLLLL OF TEXT NT