Liberal apologists of bill maher need to think long and hard

[La Lioness Priyanka]

About why his clear islamaphobia, sexism, and racism don't bother you.

You may have your own problems with these issues.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[eleny]

1. This season I lost interest in his show completely

He often had great guests. But this year, that didn't matter anymore. There's plenty of venues to hear interesting discussions. So he's fallen off the wayside. Sounds like this season was one to avoid.

[katmondoo]

28. I agree with eleny

[Hortensis]

149. Too nasty and extreme for me a long time ago.

I don't make excuses for behaviors I would condemn in Republicans, or pretend those behaviors don't matter because a person "mostly" agrees with me.

And not everyone on the left is on our side. By a long shot, and by our side I mean the coalition of peoples who cooperate through the Democratic Party to achieve their common goals. Frankly, too often the negative behaviors of left-wing reactionaries bear a very unacceptable similarity to those of right-wing reactionaries.

[Loki Liesmith]

2. Nobody's bad opinions, absent bad actions, "bother me"

Bad opinions would bother me if they were mine.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. Lol ok. It's also convenient that his bad opinions don't hurt you or yours

So easy to be magnanimous at some one else's expense

[jrthin]

22. Exactly. Not in my backyard thinking. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. More like doesn't affect me, he's funny, why are you ppl making it hard for me to have all the

Things I want?

Why are you asking me to be introspective?

I'm already on your side, i voted for obama , now shut the fuck up

[bettyellen]

45. Yeah, I'm seeing "me me me" in all the replies defending Maher. WTF.

I'm surprised they're self identifying as liberals. Or that they can live with themselves for agreeing to the TOS here.

[bettyellen]

94. You don't get how OTHER people can be bothered by slurs used by political pundits?

It's not the shitty opinion of some rando, it's from a popular figure with a big audience. It's like saying it's no big deal Trump talks about abusing women on the regular. Yeah it's offensive to MANY, so maybe it's not about YOU. I see me me me all over this thread and wonder wtf these values came from.

[Goodheart]

4. Bill Maher is the farthest thing imaginable from racist and sexist.

I grant you that he's Islamophobic in the "I fear Islam" sense of the word.

Note: I fear Christianity.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

5. Are you a woman? Are you a person of color?

[Goodheart]

7. Neither.

Are only women or persons of color entitled to opinions?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

13. Lol no, but I really like how self assured you are when you lecture

People who are affected by sexism and racism, in a way you never will be. Lol

[Squinch]

55. Bwahahaha! "Lived experiences are overrated!" Please proceed!

[pnwmom]

81. You either have to be affected OR you have to have empathy.

You don't have either.

[lunamagica]

151. Lived experiences are overrated!?!?!?! Oh my, I just can't

[Orrex]

192. Clearly you need a white dude to explain this to you

He's got all of this racism and sexism stuff figured out, you see.

[WoonTars]

209. You were being lectured to?

Interesting...

[JTFrog]

38. No, but they are much better at recognizing what you don't seem to be seeing. nt

[pnwmom]

79. This explains why you are so oblivious to the offensiveness

of some of his jokes.

[Major Nikon]

133. That's the general idea

[TheBlackAdder]

12. Maher does have his moments will all three aspects brought up, but not on his Malcolm X reference.

[JTFrog]

40. What an uninformed post.

If you think the OP is fringe left, you are definitely on the wrong website.

[NCTraveler]

48. To some simply being a feminist qualifies someone as far left.

[Squinch]

56. Perhaps people just can't handle your opinion and you are having a hard time telling the difference.

[brer cat]

96. You are incorrect.

LLP is a long-term and highly respected member of this board. You might want to hang around for a while and get to know people before you start slamming them with your criticism. Personal insults are not deemed acceptable here, especially when accompanied by a heavy dose of arrogance.

[lunamagica]

152. +1

[Bernardo de La Paz]

46. Re islamophobia: I don't fear islam or christianity. I'm very wary of a few muslims & christians.

People who condemn large groups for the actions of a few are guilty of bigotry and prejudice.

P.S. Those few christians and muslims: I don't "fear" them because I don't think they will harm me personally or the country much, but I'm very wary of them. They deserve to be watched. Like Mike Pence: a Dominionist in sheep's clothing.

[Hortensis]

153. Goodheart, Maher's religious bigotry is HUGE red flag.

People are almost never only bigoted toward one group. That's because the tendency to that kind of nasty, hostile bias always comes from within those people. Not from without.

Maher is performing in an era and to an audience that rewards expressions of aggression and hostility toward religion, and specifically Muslims, by tuning in--some despite but others specifically for that. The far left's intolerance is of a somewhat different type than the right's but it's nevertheless very real, and in Maher's case lucrative. He feeds an appetite that liberal political commentators refuse to pander to.

I personally don't care how often I agree with him about other things, and I do -- those red flags and his willingness to exploit and feed potentially dangerous and destructive political attitudes took him off my list a long time ago.

[TheBlackAdder]

6. Having a literary degree, I see the Malcolm X reference and accept the nuanced use of the word.

.

I have been taught, not only by white professors, but black professors, even when I wrote a research paper on antebellum Southern Paternalism which used many charged works from former slaves, that the use of the N-word should be tempered, but never avoided.

If the word is being used in a overt racist form, the writer should call them out on it. Not by using the term "N-word" as that takes time for the brain to decode (milliseconds) and reduces the power of the users words. Those who report on articles, and use "N-word" to be politically correct actually provides cover for the racist. This also applies to historical journal articles, news pieces and the like. Masking the word is a vain attempt to hide it's power and shock. Maher's use was appropriate, based on the discussion's context and person.

.

[Goodheart]

9. Context is everything.

To assert that a person should never utter the word, not even in an illustrative referential sense as Maher did, is quite silly.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

14. Lol maher could have made his point without using the word

But he chose not to.

That is part of context too.

[TheBlackAdder]

19. lol, There's a lot of things could of and should of.

.

He could have avoided it and given a pass to the GOP mindset of an indentured American servant.

But, he didn't.

.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

21. He could have pushed back without using the n word

You seem to think that he could not have. Many people have been able to pushback against republicans without using the n word.

[TheBlackAdder]

24. He could have. He chose not to, and that was his call, as he knows this guy better than I do.

.

I see where this is going, and further replies on this thread will be futile.

.

[WoonTars]

210. Lol. Not really.

The context was what his entire point was about.

[JTFrog]

211. Lol. Not really. nt

[WoonTars]

213. Lol. Yes really. mt

.

[kcr]

54. So that's what's missing.

Bill Mahar isn't a bigot. He's just so nuanced you practically need a literary degree to get him. Poor guy. That must be really hard.

[Squinch]

57. Yes. His bigotry is so nuanced that people deny it when it is right in their faces! It's amazing!

[TheBlackAdder]

127. Well, if you were familiar with Malcolm X, you would have picked up on it immediately.

[kcr]

130. You're a Bill Mahar fan, that's for sure n/t

[TheBlackAdder]

135. Look at post #12.

[kcr]

138. Bill Mahar defender? Same thing.

[TheBlackAdder]

139. JFC. Whatever.

[defacto7]

146. Is there a place in this country

for English language usage at a level higher than 6th grade? Actually, it is becoming difficult to communicate in an intelligent way just as it's become too easy to get a literary degree.
'Too many misuderstood positions. Dumbing down must be the way to go to make a point in public.

[kcr]

148. This sub-thread has truly been enlightening.

Maybe my issues with the Trump voting faction of my family has been a mismatch in our level of communication? I've let my skills atrophy, and I'm the one at a 6th-grade level because my distaste for what seemed like racism at times, was actually intelligence all along? Wow.

[pnwmom]

82. Maher's making a joke about slavery was inappropriate

because a rich white man jokingly referring to himself as a "house N" is minimizing the evil of slavery in front of an audience of millions, who now think a joke like this is "appropriate."

[TheBlackAdder]

131. Once again. Reflect a little.

[pnwmom]

142. Back at you. And, by the way, Maher apologized.

So at least HE gets it, if not his fervent followers.

[Blue_Adept]

8. I'd take these complaints more seriously if it included condemnation of Sasse

and the context as to WHY Maher said it. This is a sequence, like many others, that you actually have to see with how it plays out, why it was said, and what Maher was like before saying it.

Without the context it's all just angry pissing in the wind.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

10. Apparently there's no possibly way Maher could have made his point without using the term. The

Nuance and subtext was Very Important and I'm sure he had an excellent reason for using it!!!1! How shocking and powerful to use the term! How edgy and it totally schooled Sasse! So brave! Let's hurry and protect him before someone tries to stop him pronouncing Big Thoughts with shocking words!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. Yup! One min you rail Against identity politics next minute

You say the n word. But you are definitely not a racist, look at all the white people who are so sure he's not a racist.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

17. If he's racist, they'd have to examine their support of what he says.

What might they find then?

[Saviolo]

200. Yeah, that part of the election was interesting from Maher

Telling folks that they needed to put aside the "pet issues" during the campaign so that Trump would be defeated.

Like bathroom bills and gay marriage and all that sort of thing. He'll gladly lay down HIS pet issue: Weed.

Oh, thank you, Bill Maher! I'm so sorry you, (a white dude who probably smokes weed illegally all the time and anyway wouldn't be arrested or charged if you were found with your car STUFFED with weed, while black kids with a joint are serving hard time) can't legally enjoy your recreational pot while gay kids are being beat up, trans kids are being killed, and unarmed black folks are being shot. Yeah, THOSE identity politics, the people that those on the far right don't even see as PEOPLE.

By the way, Bill. Those people aren't stupid, and they're not voting for Trump.


It's a shame, too. Bill talks a lot of sense a lot of the time. I'm all about imperfect allies but sometimes Maher just doesn't get it at all.

[WinkyDink]

11. 1. Agree about the "N" word. 2. Am really OVER this new cause of "co-opting" or "cultural

misappropriation."

But as I've long said, America is not a "melting pot"; we comprise a stew of disparate elements.

[loyalsister]

128. "we comprise a stew of disparate elements"

I like that language. In this case part of respecting differences includes awareness of how that word may affect people because of it's history. Awareness and giving a damn about how people feel, that is.

[defacto7]

188. I could never use the word...

because I can't see any possible context where it would be both appropriate and inoffensive. But I also will not make a declaration against anyone else who may be able to do so.
The rule of "Blacks can and Whites can't" is purely an American phenomenon. It doesn’t exist in Europe or Africa from my own experience and other countries outside of my experience. That's not to say it's not an appropriate rule but hopefully it gives it perspective. If the rule exists, Americans own it.

[loyalsister]

189. It wasn't just the word

It was the reference to social dynamics of slavery. There is no place for snarky comments about slavery. Especially coming from someone who could easily be a descendant of someone who held power and personal investment in that system.

[BeyondGeography]

16. There's a long list of strong women and blacks who regularly appear on that show

not least because they too are free (make that encouraged) to say whatever they want. Do they "have their own problems with these issues"?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. Are they running around right now excusing his use of the n word?

[BeyondGeography]

23. No, but my guess is they won't be calling him a racist for it either

If Neil deGrasse Tyson, Michael Eric Dyson and Chris Rock keep appearing on his show, does that mean they have an issue with race? Are they liberal apologists too?

[Goodheart]

26. Maher's use of the n word was not racist

It was deferential to Malcolm X's constructed phrase.

[loyalsister]

107. Malcolm X didn't use it to get a laugh

Slavery and any reference to it is not jokeworthy. To use it that way is to say the US history od slavery is something to laugh about. It's not.

[Goodheart]

116. I'm not impressed with your non sequiturs, sorry.

[bettyellen]

187. Ah the old deferential cheap jokes! Yeah, not buying that.

[Squinch]

60. Wait. So, because he talks to strong women and blacks he can't be a bigot? I'm lost.

[BeyondGeography]

62. The OP says if you support Bill Maher you're a bigot

Hope that helps.

[Squinch]

64. No, not really. The guy used a racist slur. That is racist. Hence the name. The fact that he has

spoken to "strong women and blacks" doesn't change the fact that he used a racist slur. Which is a racist thing to do. Hence the name.

[BeyondGeography]

71. That's almost articulate

Is he a racist? If so, what does that make people who still support him by either going on his show or watching it?

[Squinch]

74. He used a racist slur. That is racist. Hence the name. So that makes people who go

on his show or watch his show people who talk to a racist and people who watch a racist.

Really, you couldn't figure that out?

[BeyondGeography]

75. Thanks for clarifying

So you'll be calling out all his guests as racists from now on.

(This is how some liberals embarrass themselves.)

[Squinch]

80. I need to call out everyone who speaks to a bigot? My cousin is a bigot. I call HER out

on every bigoted statement she makes in front of me. But you're saying that now I have to call out all my family whenever they communicate with her?

Gee. That's going to be time-consuming. And, given that the rest of the family mostly not bigoted, it's going to be REALLY stupid.

But I do see what you mean about some liberals embarrassing themselves.

[tonedevil]

160. I'm glad you recognize...

you are an embarrassment, but it would be more persuasive if you stopped being so.

[bettyellen]

186. She didn't say that- why do people keep lying about this?

Seriously it matters who you label a racist and you're lying about who she called a racist. You should be ashamed.

[Quayblue]

65. Apparently.

The smart and good black people are his buddies, so if those good black people are okay with it, the rest of us should be too.

I am literally laughing out loud at these responses.

[bettyellen]

185. Lots of strong intelligent people have denounced the joke.

As has Maher himself. WTF

[Buckeyeblue]

20. I don't think he is islamaphobic

He has disdain for all religions. As an atheist I agree with him. The muslim religion is stupid. So is christianity. And all the rest of them. I cannot fathom (and I've tried) how any person can belive in a god. But maybe this is a failing on my part. Maybe I'm wired wrong. However, i do believe in freedom of religion. Just as I believe any adult has the right to smoke, drink and eat sugar.

[HopeAgain]

30. Belligerent atheism

Is stupid too...

[Madam45for2923]

27. I think Maher is a person willing to learn. He makes mistakes. He is a big boy.

He is also a friend. Not a foe. Good to call him on this if necessary, but also ready to give him the benefit of doubt.


The right's condemnation of Maher on this is pure sleazy opportunism. They are not our friends, especially on this. Not at all.

[mnhtnbb]

29. I was watching the show--Live--last night when he said it.

Bill Maher is a comedian. He does stand up shows all over the country. I've been to his show--twice--here in Durham, NC.

Do I agree with every thing he says? No.

He knew the minute he said it that he probably could have gotten away with it during one of his stand up shows, but it was
a mistake on live TV. And he quickly tried to cover himself with "it's a joke" comment.

I also have lived in Nebraska. Fuck Ben Sasse. I'll take Bill Maher with all his faults over Ben Sasse any day.

[IADEMO2004]

32. Amen fuck Ben Sasse

Shiny new reactionary fundamentalist GOP monster.

My Favorite last night New Rules democrats bring a covered dish to a knife fight.

[HipChick]

36. I agree with you...Bill Maher dates women of color too..

he's a comedian....he did something non-PC?...FFS

[bettyellen]

43. Are you really going to go with "some of his best friends" or more accurately sex partners?

He advocates for hiring escorts too. Fuck em and pay them to go away. Such a lot of love there.

[stevenleser]

44. So your defense of him is that he has some black friends? Really?

[HipChick]

61. you must not be a POC

It's always interesting what liberals find to divide themselves about..
Unfortunately in this country, a POC does not have to imagine racism, they get to live it on a daily basis...

[stevenleser]

72. I am POC, are you? I can believe anyone of any ethnicity, gender, religion or orientation

would buy "Person A can't be prejudiced against group X because they have friends who are group X".

[HipChick]

77. You already stated you abhor BM..

so anything he does is going to justify your statement..

[Squinch]

92. Aaaaaannnd now you sink to the lowest level of discourse, the ad hominem.

[GBizzle]

95. Not my first encounter with the person in question, which had nothing to do with you.

But feel free to involve yourself in things that are none of your business.

[Squinch]

97. LOL! You're such a peach! Were you aware that this is a public forum?

[Squinch]

100. And another ad hominem attack! You're on a roll!

[GBizzle]

102. When did I say this specifically applies to you? I didn't. You fail again.

However, since you clearly THINK it applies to you, well, you just proved my point.

[Squinch]

104. Oh, you're so CLEVER!

[Squinch]

112. ANOTHER ad hominem! It's a trifecta!

[GBizzle]

118. Can you play any other tunes? All you're contributing is noise, nothing of substance.

I suppose that isn't too surprising.

[Squinch]

121. FOUR!

[stevenleser]

134. I think they were looking for JPR and got lost at Albuquerque. nt

[sheshe2]

169. That must be it...

they said a not nice to you.

[George II]

161. +1....

[sheshe2]

167. Ooops

[Squinch]

168. yes...

... Manners matter.

[sheshe2]

170. They sure do...

I read it all.

[Squinch]

171. Someone woke up on the wrong side of the cave today.

[sheshe2]

172. ...

[stevenleser]

132. Gee, why did you need a new handle with all this making friends and influencing people?

[stevenleser]

125. It's definitely our first encounter. At least in this new incarnation of yours. Who were you before?

[HipChick]

98. Thanks....so a non-Black person with faux outrage...

Interesting times we live in..

[GBizzle]

101. And a frequent FOX and RT guest, at that.

I find that very interesting...

[stevenleser]

129. I find people who use ad-hominem's boring, reductive and overdone ones like yours even more so.

If you are going to try insult people, at least strive to be original.

[George II]

162. You should watch some of his appearances on Fox, brings some liberal/progressive perspective....

....to their shows.

Not sure he ever appeared on RT, but if so I'm sure he doesn't compromise his ideology or philosophy there, either.

[Squinch]

164. I think that Steven has to have a lot of guts to do that. Walking into the lions den. I couldn't

do it.

[emulatorloo]

191. Hey Steve pushes back hard on wingnuts on Fox

So drop that dishonest smear.

[stevenleser]

197. None of these folks are honest. Anytime I get this criticism it's always

To try to distract from the discussion. They don't really care where I appear because the folks who criticize me are allostnallnsanders supporters and Bernie has made multiple guest appearances on FNC.

[stevenleser]

137. By all means, we have an African American forum. See how well your opinion plays there.

Of course you won't because you already know.

[HipChick]

145. I don't look to others to justify my opinion

and you have zero clue about what it means to be African American...

[stevenleser]

150. Sure you do, otherwise you wouldn't have asked me about my ethnicity

And been hammering on an incorrect version of it that you created.

[LanternWaste]

190. The important thing is we continue to rationalize bigoted sentiments

The important thing is we continue to rationalize bigoted sentiments as simply "faux outrage" to better trivialize the concern of other while we yet validate our own biases.

So very, very hip indeed.

[Hortensis]

155. My husband's Jewish, HipChick, and we live in the South,

up to our armpits in people bigoted against Jews, most ignorantly benign, but with a nasty, smelly froth on top of those who are intensely bigoted against Jews.

We call a number of both types "friends," and vice versa, because they sort of come with our social groupings, or love to fish with my husband as the case may be. My husband was down helping un-glitch one's computer just yesterday. In my husband's company he only badmouths Hispanics and, especially, people he uses Bill Maher's word for (frequently!) We literally don't know what word he uses to describe Jews, but let's just say if anyone had offered odds I would have bet my annual income it'd be on a list we could rattle off. He's of course a strong trump supporter.

[pnwmom]

173. Yeah, they live it on a daily basis. Like when they hear white people make slavery jokes

and other people defending the slavery jokes on a so-called progressive web site.

[Humanist_Activist]

53. Those who bitch about PC are those who wish the n-word can be used in polite company...

again. Truer words have never been spoken apparently.

"I was reading a book (about interjections, oddly enough) yesterday which included the phrase “In these days of political correctness…” talking about no longer making jokes that denigrated people for their culture or for the colour of their skin. And I thought, “That’s not actually anything to do with ‘political correctness’. That’s just treating other people with respect.”

Which made me oddly happy. I started imagining a world in which we replaced the phrase “politically correct” wherever we could with “treating other people with respect”, and it made me smile.

You should try it. It’s peculiarly enlightening.

I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking “Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!”

Happy Valentine’s Day."

—Neil Gaiman

[stevenleser]

136. And there you have it.

[pnwmom]

174. Thanks for the Gaiman quote! nt

[apcalc]

31. Agree with you lioness.

It was a foolish , racist, thing to say.

On the one hand, we all make mistakes. Perhaps his intent was harmless?

On the other hand, I stopped watching him a long time ago because I found him to be a patronizing asshole to his female guests, and quite sexist.

Is this the best the left has to offer? Yikes.

More fodder for the right wing....

[Salviati]

106. Right. First and formost Bill Maher is an asshole.

The world would be a better place if people didn't have the time to put up with assholes, whether you agree with them some of the time or not.

[Inkfreak]

33. Thought about it.

Still not important to me.

[JTFrog]

41. Shocking. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

49. Lol

[Inkfreak]

163. Boring.

[Warpy]

35. Or his antivaccination hysteria, although he's toned that one down

after kids have died from whooping cough and measles.

Most of us out in TV land hate the whole package but we do like about 80% of it. Last night he told a GOP guest he was frequently booed "by my own audience, in my own studio."

People who demand perfection of liberal leaning comedians (and face it, they're the only funny ones) are going to find themselves with little to watch. People in his studio boo when he's being an arse. I'm sure people at home do, too.

BTW, last night's "n word" was a quote from Gone With the Wind. The joke just didn't land.

[MFM008]

37. As a woman

But not a person of color.
I'll just STFU .

[Jakes Progress]

39. He's not a liberal. He's a fucking libertarian.

With all the ignorant baggage that brings.

[PBass]

195. Yep! I don't know why Liberals are rushing to defend him.

Just because he happens to overlap on a few issues, I guess. But he's a self-described Libertarian.

Also, I'd say this is a case of "the straw that broke the camel's back". He's been saying offensive stuff for years, and I think it's finally catching up to him.

His abrasive approach even turns me off to atheism. And I'm agnostic/atheist.

[JCanete]

207. He definitely has some blind spots, but libertarianism is something entirely different. Without

defending Maher here, I don't think we should just use any term we have distaste for to define somebody when we disagree with him. Libertarians don't believe in Federal programs. Libertarians barely or don't at all, believe in taxation. They believe in smaller and smaller government and in government staying out of ALL of our business. That is libertarianism at its core, and I'm not sure how it applies.

[Jakes Progress]

214. He has called himself a libertarian.

He disagrees with some libertarians, but has advocated for privatizing Social Security and rails against political correctness.

Libertarians aren't really as narrowly defined as you seem to indicate.

I find his views (and smart) to be more libertarian than liberal. I, too, love it when he skewers republicans, but I use to work with a wannabe klan member who did that too.

[stevenleser]

42. I've always had a problem with him because of his bigotry. He's often right about other stuff but

his bigotry is a dealbreaker. I don't watch his show. I get asked about why a lot and I tell people this straight up.

I wasn't as familiar with his misogyny or his racism, but his ethnocentrism and religiocentrism against Muslims is of what I had the most familiarity and its a dealbreaker, as are his other bigoted views.

[m-lekktor]

47. K+R. nt

[nini]

50. I agree completely

Just because I agree with him on some stuff doesn't mean he gets a pass on the other.

[vi5]

51. Back in the early 90's when he had Politically Incorrect on tv..

..I loved the show, and clearly thought he was someone I could look up to.

Then I went with a female friend (I am male) to see his stand up live and it was little more than an endless stream of sexist tropes, and frequent usage of the words "cunt", "bitch", and "whore".

I still think he's got some decent things to say and is probably more an ally than an enemy but I've never made excuses for him or chastized anyone who had an issue with him for the past 25 years or so. He is very sexist and very islamophobic.

But then again I'm apparently part of the extreme left so from what I understand and have been told so my opinions don't count.

[snooper2]

58. Would be cool to pick random DU'ers and put them under the spotlight

Their whole history- Never an off color joke, never got violent, never cussed someone out, never road rage, never cheated, never took advantage of a situation...


Just absolutely perfect examples of human beings LOL

[La Lioness Priyanka]

63. Never said the n word is a low bar, that most of us could cross

[Squinch]

84. Have you done any of those things in the context of your job? If so, were there consequences?

Personally, I have made many mistakes in my life. But no. In the course of my job, I have never told an off color joke, never got violent, never cussed someone out, never road raged, never cheated. I don't know what you mean when you say "never took advantage of a situation" thought I have fearful suspicions, but I'll leave that off the list.

As for the other things, whenever I have known someone to do any of them in the context of their jobs, the people who did them experienced consequences.

[JTFrog]

110. How many random DUer's have a national show with potential to influence and normalize bigotry? nt

[loyalsister]

124. I heard someone make that argument in defense of 45

and his pu$$ygrab comments. "What if someone publicized some of the worst things you have said?" 45 wasn't victimized, Maher isn't being victimized by people pointing out his lack of respect and common decency. I have had moments where I rethought my language after hearing criticism. Showing respect costs nothing.

[stevenleser]

198. He's not under the spotlight. This is what he said on air, not in his private life. nt

[SaschaHM]

59. K+R.

[MrPurple]

66. Cornell West, Michael Eric Dyson, Larry Wilmore, Kerry Washington, Chris Rock -all FREQUENT guests

And many other African American figures. He gives them a regular forum to express their views, as well as Gloria Steinem and other feminists.

I was watching last night and it was meant to be a comic comment, that it was odd to be invited to "come work in the fields", when that's the furthest thing from his background or what he'd want to do. Bill has had many rappers as guests and when someone says something ridiculous, I've seen him say "ni**a please" as a joking reply to something absurd, usually to an idea proposed by a very conservative white guy.

Maybe I'm not qualified to comment on this as a white man, but George Carlin and Lenny Bruce talked about context and intent a lot and I think the critics are missing this. It's not like he spews the N word regularly and when he does use it, the intent is never to degrade African Americans. Having watched him for many years and his countless African American guests, I have never seen anything other than respect for black culture/experience.

[GBizzle]

70. +1

[La Lioness Priyanka]

86. With a few exceptions like when he used the n word

People are beginning to sound a lot like trump apologists

[NastyRiffraff]

177. Yes, some of his best friends are Black

This thread is unbelievable. I didn't think I'd see racist comments and slurs being defended on DU, but here we are, apparently.

[MrPurple]

180. Hundreds of hours of nuanced discussions about race

He's been on air for 25 years with many hundreds of hours of nuanced discussions about race. It's not that he's friends with Cornell West, Michael Eric Dyson and whoever, but that he's held some of the more substantive discussions over issues. I don't know what mainstream show you would find more discussion about each of the police shootings over the last few years and Black Lives Matter.

If you haven't watched the show much, I think it's a bit superficial to judge based on a Youtube clip of one poor judgement joke that didn't land. If he was a racist, there would probably be more clips to turn to between 1993 and now. Until 2002, his show aired 5 nights a week.

[GBizzle]

67. Translation: "Agree with me, or I'll call you a racist."

Some George Carlin seems appropriate right about now.

I guess the word CONTEXT doesn't mean anything.

[Squinch]

69. No. The correct translation is: "Use racist slurs and I'll call you a racist." See the difference?

[GBizzle]

73. Actually, the REAL translation is "I don't know what the word 'CONTEXT' means"

"And I'm not interested in finding out, because it might take away from my ability to be outraged."

[Squinch]

78. Some people DO tolerate racist slurs if the person using the slur gives some dumb-ass

justification. That is true.

But that does nothing to change the fact that the person used a racist slur. It DOES, however, tell us all we need to know about the one doing the slur-tolerating, doesn't it?

[GBizzle]

83. And some people don't care how the slur was used, only that it was said at all.

Such people should be called what they are. IDIOTS.

"But that does nothing to change the fact that the person used a racist slur."

Again, you refuse to use the word I mentioned twice. CONTEXT. I watched his show last night - and I suspect you probably didn't.

He didn't call an African American that word, he used it on himself, in a clumsy "Gone with the Wind" joke he was trying to make.

Tasteless and stupid? Sure. I certainly wouldn't have done it, in his position. Racist? Hardly.

As others pointed out, many African Americans frequent his show, and not a single one of them has voiced outrage at this.

"It DOES, however, tell us all we need to know about the one doing the slur-tolerating, doesn't it?"

You're just proving my point. "Agree with me or you're a racist!" is the crux of your argument, and it's just pathetic.

It's all you have to fall back on, because you sure don't have the facts on your side.

I guess Dr. Cornell West, Malcolm Nance, Chris Rock, etc. are all doing "slur-tolerating", according to your ridiculous lack of logic.

[Squinch]

89. Using racist slurs (or arguing vociferously that it is acceptable to use racist slurs) is racist.

Please proceed.

[bettyellen]

182. Not facts - spike lee, chance and others have denounced the joke.

[Goodheart]

109. "But that does nothing to change the fact that the person used a racist slur. "

But not as a racist slur. Maybe that's a bit too nuanced for the immediately outraged?

[Squinch]

111. Ah, the secret language of the racist slurs that only the initiated can hear!

[Goodheart]

114. Just language. It's more difficult for some than others, granted.

Whom did Maher slur with his language? The same people that Malcolm X slurred with his?

[Squinch]

115. Oh, Lord. You really said that.

[GBizzle]

119. Funny, that's what I feel like saying after reading each comment of yours.

[Goodheart]

120. Yep... correctly and unapologetically, too.

[bettyellen]

183. Oh please tweet this out and send us the link, LOL.

Black Twitter would love to read this.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

87. lol yeah. Hide behind carlin.

[SaschaHM]

88. Right?

An old white man did it so it's fine, black folks. Scatter about. Guess we shouldn't be "pissing on allies" when they want to drop some misogynistic or racist shit for laughs.

[GBizzle]

93. Would you prefer Richard Pryor instead?

He was quite fond of using the word for a time, and it was no more racist than Carlin or Maher's uses.

I guess we have to ban the Bob Dylan song "Hurricane" and all copies of "Huckleberry Finn" have to be burned.

Give me a break.

[stevenleser]

157. Pryor final stance on the subject was that he denounced use of the word

by anyone.

[bettyellen]

184. He's being compared to Malcom X again ....

Good god.

[ProfessorGAC]

68. Pissing On Allies

More of the same
I expected more of you Lioness
Stakes are way higher than to take time pissing on a spark plug
Focus on the real enemy for goodness sake
Purity is not a virtue except for the morons (and we agree they're morons) who preach abstinence only. You may see a distinction, but there is no difference

[La Lioness Priyanka]

85. Lol. He's not an ally and neither are his apologists.

If you expect me to turn a blind eye to racists I'll always disappoint you.

[ProfessorGAC]

105. An Expected Reply

You , apparently, wouldn't know know an ally if it fell on your car
I like you here, but you(!) are why we lose
Own it and be proud of Cheeto

[Awsi Dooger]

117. Bill Maher is absolutely an ally

He defines the right in devastatingly accurate fashion. Sure he goes overboard. He's a comedian. He takes risks. This was an unfortunate choice. We need dozens more like him.

Meanwhile I have to laugh every time Rachel Maddow is touted around here. She is the definition of a lightweight, with zero foresight or accurate appraisal of the terrain. Last year she never detected the problems with the working class or exurban white vote at all. Why bother with that, when you can pick an issue that won't influence one hundredth of one percent of the voters and devote an entire hour to it, repeating and repeating and repeating all the way?

Rachel did make time to giggle in delight when a favorable poll from South Carolina was released. No kidding. She's always good for that type of thing. Remarkable ignorance. She would believe a favorable poll from a state with 98% self-identified conservatives, if there were such a state.

[hunter]

76. Maher is just one more reason my television is a movie player. That's all it does.

No broadcast, no satellite, no cable, no advertising, no subscription fees diverted to loathsome entities like Fox News.

I'll pay to have garbage removed from my house. I won't pay to have it delivered.

Missing George Carlin, I tried to watch Maher a few times, but Maher is an intellectual lightweight in comparison, going wherever the winds of his shallow liberal-libertarian philosophy carry him.

[democrank]

103. If you want examples of our culture's increasing coarseness

read some of the excuses made for Maher's ni---r or Trump's pussy comments.

[beaglelover]

113. Oh Christ! Now we're going to try and get Maher fired too???? This is why democrats suck!

[Squinch]

166. Are YOU trying to get Maher fired? Because no one said anything about getting Maher fired.

Maybe Democrats suck because of hyperbole.

[Mike B]

122. I completely agree

I am sickened by some of the posts here from members who are defending Bill Maher's actions.

[SaschaHM]

123. Do people honestly thing that "defending Maher and house n*gger" brings in enough votes...

to offset the the amount of votes lost by defending him?

The voters that you gain for defending the right to use the n-word, are never voting for Democrats.

[Squinch]

175. This "appeal to the rust belt white man!" and "let Maher use racial slurs!" wing of the party does

seem to have a problem with math, don't they?

[Shandris]

126. Watching Wil Wheaton complain about white voters is kind of amusing.

As if they were, you know, some kind of monolithic block. Especially since, like, he's not a professional investor or anything, he's working class...which means his comment was about himself. Heh.

That aside, I agree completely. Yah, the Right is technically leading the attack, but dammit I don't follow politics as a team sport where 'my team' is all good and the 'other team' is all bad, that's literal child thinking. My team occasionally has some bad, and theirs occasionally has some good (and, from their perspective, vice versa). It's the literal meaning of yin and yang - interpenetration.

And that's even if you consider Maher to be liberal in the first place, which I really don't. He leans our direction, but has very many unexamined self-biases that make him a very poor mouthpiece. If we actually want to make a difference for the people we claim to care about, we must hold every person on the medium to the SAME STANDARD and support them when they do the same.

Seems cut and dried to me, but what do I know?

[Squinch]

140. LOL! Even Bill Maher finds Bill Maher's use of the racial slur unacceptable!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029154120

Wonder how that is going to play among all his defenders here saying it was A-OK because Context! and Nuance! and Malcolm X!

[Goodheart]

141. Better question for you: is his apology racist, too?

Why would he apologize if racism were his nature?

[Squinch]

143. Use of racist slurs is racist. Hence the name.

[Goodheart]

144. You didn't answer my question.

Also "use of racist slurs is racist" only if they're used as racist slurs. If they're used definitionally, referentially, deferentially, no. Your ad hoc rules are cockamamie. And also dangerous.

[Squinch]

147. I understand the fact that the use of racist slurs is racist is very difficult for some

to accept.

But the fact remains.

[kristopher]

154. He's a self absorbed coward and racist.

[NobodyHere]

156. I don't need to think long and hard about this at all

There's plenty of outrages in this world and what Mahar said isn't one of them.

[gulliver]

158. If you are against Maher over this, I'm against you.

People who would want to lynch Maher over this are not to be trusted. They are exactly the kind of people who should never be put in control of anything.

[Squinch]

165. Well, yes. Anyone who wants to "lynch" Maher would be wrong. But no one wants to.

Lynch? Really?

[JCanete]

159. Sometimes he's wrong. Sometimes he's very wrong. There are a lot of ways to be wrong though, and

Last edited Sat Jun 3, 2017, 04:55 PM - Edit history (1)

one is to be so safe that you never operate on the edge of what is tasteful or mainstream. Doing what comedians do, from Chris Rock, Dave Chapelle, George Carlin, etc. sometimes means stepping over a line because of your own misunderstanding, rather than waiting in a bunker for the numbers to come back.

It can be how you learn. It seems like he's learned something from this one. On the other hand, I grant that he's being willfully dense, as is Sam Harris, when it comes to Islam, and as an atheist, he should know better than to ascribe a text some magical powers beyond the ability of people--depending on the context of their living conditions and those of their followers--to cherry pick words form any book towards any message that resonates with a group of people. That is silliness that seems to be his way of bucking "liberalism" to appear to be his own man.

I agree with his rants about free speech, and our approach on college campuses, and I think when we do this, we cede the high ground and give republicans actually valid talking points, but if his reasons for attacking Islam really are cynical , for the sake of situating himself in the eyes of the public and drawing viewers rather than because he truly believes the shit he's saying, that's really not excusable behavior.

[tirebiter]

176. I won't evict him from my foxhole

until the struggle's long over. We have more in common on more immediate targets.

[ismnotwasm]

178. He has clearly been a sexist pig, among his other bigotry

I don't listen to him--but I'm not surprised

[LexVegas]

179. I dont think Maher is a racist, but he says some offensive stuff. nt

[Orcrist]

181. Much ado about very little

Oh Christ! Now we're going to try and get Maher fired too???? This is why democrats suck!

Yep. Totally agree. I can't abide people either incapable of understanding the effect of context on what a person says or those who intentionally ignore the context because it interferes with their ability to piss their pants and go into mock outrage mode. A mode they use to display how morally superior they are to we mere mortals.

We also have a pitiful inability to recognize the difference between a imperfect friend and a deadly enemy. It's why we lost the last presidential election and if we don't get our collective heads out of our collective infighting asses may lose the next one.

Because our political foes use the N word in an altogether more sinister context. No mistaking how they mean it. Sometimes I think I need to take some of the liberals from other parts of the country on a tour of my home state of Alabama. Then they could learn the difference between real racists and over hyped bull$##t like this.

[TeamPooka]

193. being mad at a guy who tries to say offensive things for a living is an interesting activity.

[NCTraveler]

194. "You may have your own problems with these issues. "

I think you can remove "may" from your post.

[TNLib]

196. Too much man splaining on that show for my taste

His female guest always seem to be talked over or talked down too.

[Starry Messenger]

199. I've loathed him for years

I guess I shouldn't be surprised he has his defenders. I think he takes up space and attention that would be better served with someone who isn't shitty every other month.

[MindPilot]

201. So what method of execution should we use?

Clearly Mr Maher is such an affront to progressive values that he can no longer be allowed to exist.

Firing squad? Drone strike? Draw & quarter?

Odd how so many people who hate him with such a white-hot passion, seem to not only be aware of every word he utters, but are also paying for the opportunity to do so.

FFS--I've never seen so much intolerance for failing the purity test by the supposedly tolerant. This is a perfect example of why Democrats lose elections & real liberals go to a 3rd party or check out completely.

[stevenleser]

203. Logical fallacies don't make your point. nt

[bettyellen]

204. "Real liberals go to a third party" and others have purity tests? What?

[GitRDun]

202. A couple thoughts for you

I've watched the show for a lot of years. I think he just misfired....I don't understand why it's a given he is a racist, islamaphobe, and sexist. Lol your thrust is if I don't accept your opinion I have a problem? Whatever happened to reasonable people can disagree?

As I watched the show, I thought the Senator's comments were a slave reference too. Maher shouldn't have used the reference he did, but I think his track record is OK. I groaned too so I can see why people were offended. Glad he apologized.

I've never seen him as sexist, but open to learning about that.

I think the Islamaphobia charge is flat out wrong. His message is that religions are responsible for plenty of violence and you cannot dismiss the role the larger religion plays as relates to extremists of that religion. Maher has the same position when it comes to Christian extremists. Yeah, the "millions of Muslims support the Charlie Hebdo attack" was hyperbole, no one knows how many did. However, it was also true that at that time in the UK 25% of Muslims supported the attack. That's not a small number.

I would offer one further point on religion. One of my best friends, probably one of the smartest people I know, was born in India, moved here as a child, served in the army as a doctor...been all over the world. He is a sikh. The kindest, most tolerant person I know. He has said some of the same things Maher has said about religions generally and Islam in particular. He's said their is a tinge of intolerance broadly that needs to be addressed if we are going to drive out the extremists, particularly in the Middle East....and this is a guy that had his kids research other religions as summer projects when they were in high school.

In the end, I understand Bill Maher is not everyone's cup of tea, but some of the firing squad posts in this thread are over the top for me. Likewise it is wrong to say anyone who disagrees with you is a racist or mysogynist. Your my way or the highway approach doesn't add to the dialogue or provide the basis for understanding on a constructive way forward.

[demosincebirth]

205. I like Bill Maher. You can;t please everyone, especially here on Democratilc Underground.

[BannonsLiver]

206. I'm giving it some thought right now. Give me a sec...

Nah, still not offended. Sorry.

[WoonTars]

208. He can be extremely funny..

His "racism"? Don't make me laugh...

[LanternWaste]

212. We all have Sacred Cows we defend with an irrational purpose.

We all have Sacred Cows we defend with an irrational purpose; luckily, mine is simply playing D&D at age 50 rather than justifying racist speech.