General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBucky
(53,928 posts)I suppose I'm gonna lose a lot of sleep waiting up for him to make that Twit
Les Cowbell
(84 posts)Your post just contained scorn and no facts. You have proof of his anti-Muslim bigotry? I mean he uses facts, as he did last night, to back up his claims.
Bucky
(53,928 posts)I refer you to this article. It goes over several incidents in which Maher said horrible sweeping generalizations about Muslims.
I don't agree with the conclusion that he is categorically racist. But he frequently let's his prejudices against Islam spill over into hateful speech about Muslims as a people
https://thinkprogress.org/bill-maher-racist-history-b1d9c74283cd
And that is where I stand as far as preferring facts over scorn. I don't say I can't have harsh judgments against people. It just means I choose to discuss things rationally and without the coloring of prejudice over reality awareness
Les Cowbell
(84 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)for yourself, Les Cowbell. Ignorance, real or claimed, is not only not an excuse, it's not a weapon on DU.
Les Cowbell
(84 posts)the self-appointed deciders of who is racist or sexist and must make all pay who don't fit their wobbly standards
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)who have to deal w/ this shit from the right and the left.
Les Cowbell
(84 posts)someone who has people of all colors and persuasions represented on his show and calls out true racists regularly. He is not a racist. This is just an easy hammer for those who don't like him to swing and take down the wrong guy.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)When black and brown allies tell you this, you're not doing yourself any favors by dismissing it. Paula Deen had people of all colors on her show, but started throwing around the word "n*gger" in private. That didn't make her usage of the word o.k and it doesn't make his.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)was appropriate in context (joke) and meaning. I'm a true liberal and at 20 was already too old to be shockable by words used without malice for "ooooh!!! purpose," while those who might grab the opportunity to attack me for saying that practically by definition are not.
That includes, btw, a few self-declared POC members who may be registered and genuine Democrats but seem to be using their voice here to focus on division within the party without inclusion. Anger is understandable in the circumstances, but it's important that we understand its various roots and recognize that we are not all liberals by any means.
The Democratic Party contains conservatives of many colors, ethnicities, and religions, and we should recognize, and accept when they, as is their right, express their beliefs. The Democratic Party also contains far-left members who are at least as akin to far-right conservatives as they are to liberals, and. inevitably, behave that way, and the same goes for them. As long as they all truly support the Democratic Party.
But Maher is deliberately appealing to the "low" in the party wherever it comes from, and to me that's not okay. Copying what's happened to the right is foolishly inimical to our party and our national interests. The media are full of people I agree with. I don't him, and I oppose him and all the other "Mahers" who are profiteering by fertilizing the worst weeds of intolerance sprouting on the left and elsewhere in the party.
And, yes, he's only one of the cynical profiteers feeding this newly energized market for the hostile aggression they're peddling.
Les Cowbell
(84 posts)how you are guided by prejudice far more than he is.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)I'm sorry I upset the apple cart by calling out the use of racist language by someone who occasionally supports left-leaning causes. I'll head to the back of the bus and wait for my turn to speak.
Les Cowbell
(84 posts)... especially you.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)Les Cowbell
(84 posts)Of course nothing I've written would lead a reasonable person to that conclusion but you are obviously not reasonable about this subject - and no I don't mean racism, I mean people like you mischaracterizing what Maher said and acting like he is the enemy.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)And recognizes that he should not have said what he said.
Beartracks
(12,793 posts)=============
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Les Cowbell
(84 posts)My values are fine ... yours on the other hand seem to be similar to those who don't allow disagreements.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)"Tolerant" enough for you here? Did you feel good about agreeing to be TOS or did you "disagree" with it?
Les Cowbell
(84 posts)so try using the TOS to police me if it makes you feel better. I feel fine with my values and the TOS. You happy now or just like Maher's apology will that not be enough pound of flesh for you?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)This community has standards and I just wanted to check and see if you actually knew that. It just sounds like that would chafe you- expectations of decency can be so hard.
Les Cowbell
(84 posts)And sorry to burst your bubble but I told you to police away not pity me. And I'm not a Libertarian so you are also wrong about that. Voted for every Democratic candidate for prez since McGovern and worked for many and down ballot candidates. But go ahead and attack me and Maher. That should help defeat republicans.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Rustyeye77
(2,736 posts)Attack your friends and then complain about your enemies.
Squinch
(50,901 posts)Such a lot of suffering you must have experienced in such a short time!
Les Cowbell
(84 posts)and I've seen a number of DUers who have a problem with anyone who doesn't toe their narrow line. You'll be happy to know, however, that it hasn't caused me any suffering whatsoever.
JimGinPA
(14,811 posts)Beartracks
(12,793 posts)Bucky
(53,928 posts)If we as a political party are going to have moral standards and live by them, there's going to be times that we disagree with each other.
There's going to be times when we listen to criticism and respond with apologies. That's what both Kathy Griffin and Bill Maher have done. That is the hallmark of liberalism. Not that we're morally flawless, but that we are able to correct ourselves when we don't live up to our standards.
That is what separates us from baboons and from Republicans
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)"The larks on the wing;
The snails on the thorn;
Gods in His heaven
Alls right with the world!"
ADX
(1,622 posts)...and I'm Black. Moving on...
gulliver
(13,168 posts)...should apologize back to him. I would argue that what they did was worse, but people are fallible. Maher is a professional and riffed a wrong note by accident. Deliberately turning on your own over such slight, questionable provocation is worse.
I hope a lot of people will see they owe Bill an apology and that they will apologize to him. It's hard to imagine not being further disappointed by people in this though. And I'm not sure Twitter even has a mechanism that would allow so many who owe an apology to apologize to just one person.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)mountain grammy
(26,598 posts)SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)But before he apologized and even now, DU (and others on twitter) frankly showed itself ,as it tends to do when issues of race pop up, to be a shitshow when PoC go up against someone beloved by liberals. And that's not acceptable.
Not to mention this bullshit notion that Black voters, solidly for Clinton and Democrats for years, are not aware of the dangers of Trump. Fuck that meme. Fuck that shit. Lecture to your family members and neighbors about the dangers of Trump, because we got that fucking message before you did.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)You'd think they'd learn to have solidarity with RELIABLE Dems.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)particularly when he started appealing to the Tea Party base of the Republican party. They are themselves a wholesale reaction to the fact that a Black Man held the highest office in the land. This is NOT the first time, by any stretch, that whites overreacted to black people getting equality or freedom, from the Civil War to the end of Reconstruction, from the massacre at Tulsa, to the Busing riots and attacks in Boston. Its slightly toned down, and, so far, slightly less violent, but it's more of the same, white people reacting to a loss of privilege, and they also, in the long run, hurt themselves as well.
White liberals, progressives, or however they label themselves, who claim to be for equality, but frankly it's all just showmanship until they are willing to put themselves out there to support the PoC brothers and sisters. Far too many, having little experience in interacting with PoC or their communities, never witness the struggles, or see the challenges, and hence they have difficulty empathizing with PoC as a rule. In a way, it's not their fault, the bubble they find themselves in is one that their parents or grandparents decided for them through white flight and segregation policies. However, as adults, they should endeavour to open their minds and try to learn how other people live, how it's different, and how it's the same.