Bill Maher is an enigma

[Quixote1818]

One moment he will go to the wall defending someone like Trayvon Martin with incredible passion and sincerity and the next moment he might call Michael Brown a "Thug".

He certainly isn't a perfect liberal but he would be considered a very bad conservative. I think he has some backward and insensitive positions that border on racism and sexism and may even cross the line (this is possibly because he is on a show where he gets ratings by pushing the envelope) but he has aligned himself more with liberals than conservatives because that is where he really is and he defends minorities a lot more than he doesn't. His comment about Michael Brown to me is extremely offensive and a big disappointment along with some very sexist things he has said but his passionate defense of Martin and other minorities as well as other women I think is a genuine side of him which is admirable. I think he is 70% good hearted and 30% insensitive and shallow. He is an enigma who we can't put in a perfect liberal package like we could probably do with Al Frankin or Gavin Newsom. He is more like Chris Matthews than our real liberal heroes. But that doesn't mean we dump him completely. He has apologized and hopefully he will learn from this.

None of us are perfect and yes Maher deserves to be hammered for using the N word and for many other things he has said over the years. However, I am still going to watch his show because I think he is by far a net positive for liberal causes and for looking out for minorities and women's issues. We just need to continue to criticize him when we think he is wrong or sounding bigoted.

[True Dough]

1. Very well said

That's exactly how I feel as well. Not quixotic at all!

[Lotusflower70]

2. Agreed

Maybe a wake up call. He is definitely a good voice the majority of the time and the discussions. There are things I disagree with. But I am sick and tired of the purists. The party is a mix and we should be tolerant of diversity. He makes people laugh and think and we need that.

[BeyondGeography]

3. Great post

He can be full of it but nobody unpacks white Republican shit better than Bill, which is one of the reasons why he'll survive this.

[roamer65]

4. Maher is a libertarian.

That is why I have always been luke warm on him at best. 50 pct of the time I agree with him, 50 pct I don't.

[PoliticAverse]

8. Although he has used the 'libertarian' label in the past, he switched to 'progressive'. n/t

[Beartracks]

5. But he's OUR engima!!

(And, yes, I know he's more libertarian than liberal, but still... )

================

[PoliticAverse]

6. Bill Maher is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma...

no wait, that's Russia.

[Warpy]

7. I occasionally make dumb jokes that don't land

and we all know I'm perfectly capable of being a blockhead, so I tend to be a little more forgiving of the imperfect than a lot of knee jerkers are.

As for using the "n word," he was quoting "Gone with the Wind." It just didn't land and I think he was a little flummoxed by a Nebraska Republican's suggestion that he visit the state and harvest the crops. It was out of the blue and he just didn't think fast enough to ask the guy if he supported deporting all the Mexicans who usually did it for them.

I boo along with his audience when he says something stupid. They didn't boo last night, they groaned. They knew the right wing was going to jump on this one and throw hissy fits all over the web, followed by social justice word crusaders.

Remember, guys, he called himself that word in the quote. He didn't use it hurtfully against anyone else.

[Quixote1818]

9. Your last line is something I have been thinking about

He called himself the N word. I noticed that as well. A very subtle nuance that has made me think he should be given more slack. Thanks for bringing that up. I was afraid to mention it because I was afraid people wouldn't see my point.

[Warpy]

10. I'm old and out of fucks to give

I watched the show. I heard what happened and what provoked it. It didn't land.

There's nothing else to see here, no overt racism, no massive insult to POC, nothing but a nonplussed comedian who was blindsided by a stupid statement from a Republican.

[mnhtnbb]

11. Harvesting crops in Nebraska is mostly done by machine.

The top crops are corn, soybeans, and wheat.

Field labor is required for detasseling corn--which is very hard manual labor--in the middle of the summer. Labor laws have been written to allow
teenagers--and children as young as 12--to detassel corn. They mostly get paid minimum wage--or less--because of being kids. In areas where
they can't find teen crews to do the detasseling, they hire migrant farm workers.

Having lived in Nebraska (for 6 years) I got Sasse's reference to come work in the fields. It wasn't an invitation to ride the air conditioned John Deere combine; it was an invitation to come do hard manual labor, be paid minimum wage, no overtime, in the summer when heat and humidity can be life threatening for people working outdoors.

Maher's comment was directed towards understanding that he'd rather do slave labor in the house than the fields. Yes, it was unfortunate, but
EVERYONE is missing the issue here because they are focused on choice of words.

And what is that issue? Agricultural labor and the working conditions for people who do it. That should be an issue for Democrats!

I put up an OP about this and still no one gets it.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029153927

[Warpy]

12. Thanks for the insight

The closest I've ever been to Nebraska is a layover in Kansas City, MO.

However, yes, Democrats should be talking about miserable field work conditions with low pay.

[bettyellen]

22. Nope you are missing that it is still deeply offensive. Period. No one is so stupid

To not know the difference between a field slave and a house slave. What a condescending idea. It was a racist slur and a very poor choice not matter the topic or origins of the show. Stop pretending it's some intellectual feat to "get it". Some people have an easier time laughing at slurs- likely depends on your experiences. For me it's not okay and I'd prefer it wasn't normalized. HBO agrees.

[mnhtnbb]

23. Yes, I get that some people can't see the forest for the trees.

My point is that Maher missed an opportunity to define an issue--which ought to be a Democratic issue-- related to agricultural labor conditions by going for the laugh in a way that was insulting to a lot of people. It's called pulling focus. Upstaging. And to me that's as much a mistake as his choice of language--that he let an opportunity to talk about a Democratic issue get away.

Look, he's a comedian. Time was running out on that segment. Comedians say $hit during stand-up routines that they can't get away with on live TV. He's apologized. If you are calling me stupid and condescending, then you owe me an apology, too.

Don't think for a minute I've never been insulted or that I don't understand that insults that roll off the backs of some people really are deeply disturbing to others.

[bettyellen]

24. I think everybody's overplayed their hands- listing things you find worse than racism? A deft rebuke

Well played. Insisting I don't have a point over and over again doesn't make it true. It makes it repetative and patronizing.

I'm not going to get all deep about the jokes he coulda woulda shoulda said according to you (don't care) and just say he made a very unfortunate choice to inject race into it in an insulting way. not getting detailed into hypotheticals for the umpteenth time.

Bonus points for trying to get me to apologize- you're putting words in people's mouth and then, protesting way too much and working from the same playbook.
At least you didn't accuse me directly of playing the race card. So you know, not as shitty as other conversations minimizing racism:

This whole thing has made me dislike Maher every more. No biggie, I thought he was pretty mediocre anyway. Stale, a poor fit with the times. Funny result.

[Warpy]

14. I don't think he needs to worry, some idiot in the administration

will do something far worse soon enough.

And it looks like there was another terrorist attack, this time in London.

[bettyellen]

25. I don't get the - no apology because other people are shitty too thing.

That's literally what Trump says about Dems. Also, the reasoning is faulty. He was hella offensive, it's good he apologized.

[samnsara]

16. yeppers i agree

[Motley13]

17. dolt 45 doesn't have a lock on stupid comments

it's just that everything that comes out out HIS mouth is stupid, he is the one that s/b fired.

[Oneironaut]

18. Bill Maher is is Libertarian Democrat

He tends to be 50-50 with me as well. However, nobody needs to agree on everything. For example, I find his views on the LGBT community to be abysmal.

[speaktruthtopower]

19. People who try to be funny...

hit a sour note trying to be provocative sometimes.

[HAB911]

20. K&R

[riderinthestorm]

21. We need the left and left leaning comedians more than ever now

Maher's n-word comment is indefensible but he's apologized.

The comedians are oftentimes the only ones reaching the non-news watching segment of the population. They are an effective tool in combatting the rightwing lies.

We're going to need everything in our arsenal to win more seats in 2020 and that includes Bill Maher imo.

Onwards.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

26. I have never seen Maher as a leftie or even a Progressive.

When I first paid attention to him, some years back, I heard him defending the Right more often than not, and so I quickly figured out that he and I weren't on the same page.

I also seem to recall that he was a foe of "political correctness", and like so many such foes, used that stance to spout racist, misogynist, and sometimes ignorant positions.

In short, he's an unreliable narrator.

[IADEMO2004]

27. Bill Maher is a junk yard dog that will shit on the kitchen table.

You want to shoot him but if some asshole is kicking your door down there is not a meaner sum'bitch you want beside you.

[Freethinker65]

28. He is an entertainer, not a spokesperson for the Democratic Party

[JHB]

29. I don't see anything enigmatic. He's an asshole.

It usually works for him in his line of work and the style of comedy he engages in -- "call it as I see it" -- but he trips over his own mouth on a pretty regular basis. And usually blames the audience for being too sensitive or politically correct rather than acknowledging he let loose with a stinker that wasn't funny.

[snowy owl]

30. No enigma just truthful, authentic

Martin appeared to be a decent kid. Brown caught on tape bullying store owner. So Maher calls it like he sees it. No pc for Maher which is why I respect his opinions..I may or may not agree but he's consistent. Same thing with Islam. Agree or not, his points of view are always intellectually based.

The latest comment? There are bigger things to worry about. A quick-minded sharp comic spoke before thinking. Why the fuss? We are still a very parochial people in my view. I wonder what Carlin or Bruce would have said about all this?