Bill Maher and others using the N-Word does not bother me, reality does (VIDEO)

[egbertowillies]

I do not want Bill Maher taken off the air. He is crude and says things on issues many are scared to say. In the process, he upsets many. Hell, the man is a comedian/satirist. But I will expand further below.

https://egbertowillies.com/2017/06/03/bill-maher-n-word-bother-reality/

[bettyellen]

1. A/s/R ?

[SaschaHM]

4. Welcome to the new Democratic Party.

Because 88% of the black vote was too much.

[bettyellen]

6. On behalf of the east coat liberal non elite I must apologize for my white brothers......

Last edited Sun Jun 4, 2017, 06:17 AM - Edit history (1)

They are truly living in a bubble, say the same shit about sexism. Not their problem. Ugh.

[gtar100]

2. Well said... I especially appreciate this part ...

"I am an intelligent person. I am not a fool. I do not acknowledge anyone who may think they are referring to me with words for which I do not classify myself as. Therefore, I simply disregard those utterances as just warm air vibrations. If we taught more people that concept, we could then get upset and do something about issues that matter instead of spending time on issues that stimulate passion but have little value to our personal economies or well-being."

Our culture would mature considerably if we took this attitude. Thanks for the reminder.

[bettyellen]

5. Are you saying POC who don't like hearing the Nword used by pundits are NOT MATURE?

Are you actually saying that out loud? I'm going to guess it's had no effect on your well being. Way to go, ally. Way to denigrate our base. :vomit:

[gtar100]

8. No, I had no meaning as you stated.

I guess we read these statements differently.

[bettyellen]

10. It literally says our culture is not mature enough because this is an issue for some people.

It's actually blaming POC for being offended by racism. There's literally no other meaning that can be taken from this. And it's fucking insulting as hell. How dare you blame POC for daring to react to hostility? What the hell?

[melman]

12. Are you able to post without attacking?

Seriously wtf. That poster said nothing like that.

[bettyellen]

13. Break down for me what the mature part means? I see no ther way to take it.

Please explain how this differes from the popular but rude patronizing sentiment- "grow up, get over it"! Can't wait.

[gtar100]

15. It means to me to listen for intent and meaning not just the words.

You'd find if you knew me IRL that I never use the n word, I find it offensive and denigrating. I also find the term "POC" offensive to me personally because it arbitrarily puts people into separate camps simply based on skin color and/or heritage. But it's in wide use and for me to not get hung up I gotta look past it and hopefully to the heart of the individual who said it. That's so much more important than my own interpretation of a word.

As the original poster said, many rappers use the n word in their lyrics. And I hear it often in the streets by groups of kids referring to each other in a way that sounds to me like a bond between themselves. If it were some lone individual or gang I might be tempted to think they are in the wrong and they should be scolded for bad manners but it's not just a small group, it's pervasive in modern culture. What am I to make of that?

I have no intention of adopting the use of the n word in my own life (or POC) but the force of culture goes in a surprising direction despite me. The difference between how words are used coming from some racist compared to some very much alive and aware musicians, or between friends on the street, or some comedian caught with his foot in his mouth... it all seems to come down to what the intent and meaning the speaker has. This is not the same as "grow up, get over it" which is very dismissive of people's feelings and beliefs.

If I were a close friend of Bill Maher, and he hadn't apologized already, I probably would have told him, dude that was offensive. And the fact he apologized would have been the end of the discussion. Heart matters more. That's pretty much the gist of it. I don't mean to be preachy, hopefully that make sense.

[bettyellen]

16. Maturity is to give bigots a pass because they're not intentionally bigoted?

So we should be mired in bigotry because basically everyone using words like that will tell you they're not a bigot? I don't buy that. At a minimum it's deeply disrespectful, why is it "mature" to pretend otherwise.
I really don't understand how this is not just a kinder gentler STFU. Results matter, words too. Pretending they do not doesn't appeal to me. Am I missing something?

(Also, no need to make it personal and defend yourself at all when discussing this, it's a bit of a tangent that doesn't seem helpful- thanks)

[gtar100]

18. No, not what I said at all. That's a strawman argument...

Because it is obviously not mature to give bigots a pass when they are running their mouths off. Words do matter but there is no dictionary around that can say what an individual means in their intent. That is something we have to pick up on in the moment. There shouldn't be a need to "pretend" anything except maybe to get out of a very awkward situation that could turn violent... this issue with Bill Maher is not one of them.

I don't see it as a kinder, more gentle way of saying STFU but I can see how some may use it that way (as in, "don't be so serious, lighten up, get over yourself"... that sort of thing). So you are not wrong in not letting me or anyone get away with that sort of thing. Because it hurts to be on the receiving end of such dismissiveness.

Have you ever been in a situation in which somebody points out something you said in a way that makes you look bad and you have the reaction of, "that's not what I meant!"? I read the original column from the op and read it to mean to not get hung up on just the words but to look at meaning and intent (...like that's easy, right?). I guess the internet makes it hard because we only have the surface words to deal with and not the face, the gestures, the fidgeting about, and a shared place and time to provide us better context to make a judgment.

So, no, don't let anyone tell you to "STFU and get over it" just because they are uncomfortable. I think you're very right in that assertion, I think we're just coming at it from different angles.

[bettyellen]

19. But bigots never ever admit intent, always have defenders - even here unfortunately- so this is not

theoretical. People might be thinking you have to be calling for harm to be bigoted or have some obvious intent. That's not true. Lots of people are unaware they sound bigoted- and loads more very invested in defending the crap. It's disheartening.

As are the endless patronizing lecturs about how people "don't get it" or "understand how dangerous Trump is" - I believe most of those people are being intentionally condesending. Asking for people to apologize to Maher? Pretending he didn't use the word? Pure fuckery, and gaslighting of the highest order. I don't know why anyone would suggest accepting such dishonesty. Nope.

[gtar100]

21. Well said. I agree with everything you said.

I think that's exactly what Bill Maher did - said something entirely bigoted but not with intention to hurt anyone but to be funny. But what he said was offensive. No excuse, he should and did (so I have read) apologize. The defenders are probably looking for justification of their own bigotry instead of owning up to it. But owning up to it assumes they aren't consumed by some sort identity that justifies the ugliness of prejudice and bigotry.

Thank you, bettyellen.

g

[bettyellen]

22. Thanks, the responses have mostly boiled down to variations on the "get over it" theme-

And that is inadequate.

We're allowed to have standards without being subjected to thre "rules lawyer" pushback. The tenor of these arguments is as patronizing and basically follow the same lines as those who defend sexism. It's all quite familiar. But I don't think I've been talked down to quite so often before. Some people seem invested in the idea that they're intellectually superior. I doubt they grok how problematic that is.

[njhoneybadger]

3. My friend you are right

[WhiskeyGrinder]

7. What's so great about Bill Maher?

[trentwestcott]

9. So...it's cool if we all use the n word in here too?

Like right now I could type it and that'd be cool? I am 12.5% African-American, so I'm pretty sure that's cool right? Right? Or just Bill Maher?

[CakeGrrl]

17. What's your context?

Are you saying it to make a point? Maher was.

Or do you want to say it as an attempt to disparage black people, KKK/Neo-Nazi style?

Are you using it as a colloquialism between fellow African Americans, or a an expression of solidarity ("my nigga"!)


It's all about context and intent.

[trentwestcott]

20. First of all, I'm 1/8th African-American

So I guess that makes it alright, right?

My context is that everyone knows that this was wrong, it was hurtful, and it was a mistake on Maher's part, but we love Maher, so we start equivocating and saying stuff about context and art and what Maher's real intentions were. If we on this forum have enough sense not to tolerate the n word in here, and we wouldn't abide it in here, why are we running cover for this idiot?

[bettyellen]

14. Can you explain why it's not "mature" to be bothered by racism and how that differes from the

Classic lines "grow up" and "get over it" which are basically GOP talking points at this juncture?

I'm not seeing a whole lot of day light between the two things. Thanks