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Mon Jun 12, 2017, 10:37 PM

What happens if Trump fires Mueller - Seth Abramason


Fascinating read -- to help go through the permutations of what might happen if Trump decides to fire Mueller...

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/6/12/1671237/-What-happens-if-Trump-fires-Mueller-Seth-Abramason

12 replies, 5177 views

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Reply What happens if Trump fires Mueller - Seth Abramason (Original post)
Farmgirl1961 Jun 2017 OP
orangecrush Jun 2017 #1
unblock Jun 2017 #2
sandensea Jun 2017 #8
Mme. Defarge Jun 2017 #3
saidsimplesimon Jun 2017 #4
KT2000 Jun 2017 #5
moonscape Jun 2017 #6
KT2000 Jun 2017 #7
Cha Jun 2017 #9
Azathoth Jun 2017 #10
marylandblue Jun 2017 #11
Azathoth Jun 2017 #12

Response to Farmgirl1961 (Original post)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 10:48 PM

1. Very good

Thanks for posting this!

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Response to Farmgirl1961 (Original post)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 10:51 PM

2. great analysis -- but he left out the possibility of firing sessions and having his replacement

fire mueller.

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Response to unblock (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 01:05 AM

8. Count on it.

Cheeto would fire the night watchman at the Lincoln Memorial if it meant getting his way with Mueller.

Nixon was like Jimmy Carter compared this thieving despot now in office.

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Response to Farmgirl1961 (Original post)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 10:54 PM

3. Fascinating

I'm betting that a guilty Trump will opt for chaos.

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Response to Mme. Defarge (Reply #3)

Mon Jun 12, 2017, 10:56 PM

4. Mme. Defrarge

Oui! Chaos goes so well with the Orwell theme, "Ignorance is strength".


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Response to Farmgirl1961 (Original post)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 12:45 AM

5. I do not see where Rosenstein

would do anything other than what it takes to advance his own career. He wrote the letter to get Comey fired knowing it was not the real reason he was fired. Where does his ethical stand per Abramson come from? He would not even answer Kamala Harris' question in a forthright manner.

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 12:51 AM

6. Rosenstein put Mueller in place without WH knowledge, knowing 45 would not be happy,

because it was the right thing to do and also to preserve his reputation. He could have the POV Comey had - a bit of the "I got this" syndrome, believing he can manage it.

He's too young to throw his career away by firing Mueller. My sense anyway. Certainly my hope.

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Response to moonscape (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 12:57 AM

7. OK - that sounds better n/t

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Response to Farmgirl1961 (Original post)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 01:27 AM

9. trump cares about nothing more than himself..

not even his minime clones.

It's apparent Seth Abramson thinks trump is guilty of a crime.

Mahalo, Farmgirl!

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Response to Farmgirl1961 (Original post)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 01:47 AM

10. This is overly convoluted

Sessions' "recusal" is a sham and everyone knows it. He could and would fire Mueller at any time. Rosenstein might refuse to do it, but Sessions and plenty of other Trump-suckers who have been installed at the DOJ would.

And the nonsense about "bringing suit" against Mueller to get him to stand down is just that -- nonsense. Trump could fire Mueller directly, then order the FBI to arrest and prosecute him under 18 USC 912 (impersonating a federal officer) and all kinds of other statutes (theft of government property, god knows what else) if he refuses.

The Executive has A LOT of power. Any possible check on his behavior presupposes a Congress that opposes what he is doing.

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Response to Azathoth (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 01:58 AM

11. In our system, the lowest judge has a lot of power

Look what happened with Trump's travel ban. All someone had to do was wake up a judge at night and they got an injunction almost immediately. It was confusing at first, but ultimately the judge was obeyed. Same thing with dismissing Mueller. All he has to do is walk into a federal courthouse and get an injunction. He'll probably get it too. Judges know a criminal when they see one. And the FBI will obey the order. Their oath is still to the Constitution, not to Trump...yet.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #11)

Tue Jun 13, 2017, 03:41 AM

12. That's true but it presupposes Mueller will fight in court

As he would be the only person with standing to bring an action. And that assumes Trump fires him personally in blatant disregard for the regulations, while hopefully shooting himself in the foot by bragging about his real motivations on Twitter, a la the travel ban.

However, I'm not convinced Mueller would win. His role is entirely a creation of internal DOJ regulations. There is no statuory authority for his office, and the president's constitutional power to handle law enforcement is plenary. Courts have held that agency heads can't wield power they have delegated away through rulemaking without first changing the rules back. But Trump is the president and he could reasonably argue that the AG and the DOJ are not empowered to limit through rulemaking his core constitutional powers.

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